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Thursday, November 19, 2009

Gordon: Wainwright got jobbed in Cy Young voting

Yeeeha! Only the biggest Gordon scam since they nailed Waxey on that bogus tax evasion mcthingee!

Chris Carpenter was the best starting pitcher in the National League. When he pitched, he was the toughest starter to hit. That is why he won the league’s earned-run average title.

Adam Wainwright built the best season -– from start to finish—so he deserved the NL’s Cy Young Award this season.

But Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum got it instead, to the great agitation of Cardinal Nation.

What went wrong?

* Many baseball writers downplayed the value of actually winning games, since Lincecum won just 15 times with a decent supporting team.

...Wainwright won the most games in the NL, 19. Winning games is the whole point of playing, so that statistic should carry great weight.

...When a pitcher leads the league in innings pitched, he takes a HUGE load off the relief corps. I’m not sure if anybody has drawn up a Bullpen Fatigue Index (BFI) formula to quantify this value, but it has a big impact on a team.

Repoz Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:12 PM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: awards, cardinals, sabermetrics

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1. JMPH Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:26 PM (#3391582)

http://www.perhapanauts.com/blog/uploaded_images/burro_donkey_pinata-734567.jpg

2. Artie Ziff Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:27 PM (#3391585)

Uh, robbed? Did this guy watch Lincecum pitch even an inning this year?? He was clearly the most dominant player of this year.

3. rconn23 Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:34 PM (#3391597)

Homer hack columnist says local guy got robbed. Lather. rinse. repeat.

4. HGM Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:36 PM (#3391601)

lol

5. cardsfanboy

Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:37 PM (#3391602)

Gordon is an idiot, I honestly think that any of the three could/should have won it, and that nobody could claim to have gotten jobbed if they didn't win.

6. Davo Malvolio Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3391609)

(Wainwright) won three games in April, two in May, three in June, four in July, four in August and three in September.

This is the greatest paragraph ever written in the history of words and letters.

7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:40 PM (#3391611)

Winning games is the whole point of playing,

Correct. AS A TEAM. The player that gives his TEAM the best chance of winning should get the award.

8. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3391620)

I don't think the writers would have made a mistake by choosing Wainwright. More innings than The Freak, over 200 K, comparable ERA, etc.

9. BillP Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:53 PM (#3391627)

Many baseball writers downplayed the value of choosing to have Albert Pujols as a teammate rather than Travis Ishikawa, since Lincecum won just 15 times while receiving much, much less run support than Wainwright.

*fixed

10. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3391631)

I read the FA and most of his argument is about innings not wins, actually. (and the comments are funny in the so-bad-its-good sense)

It is funny that the writer sees no disconnect between "Winning games is the whole point of playing, so that statistic should carry great weight" and his speculating later on how the Cards' bullpen blowing Wainwright's would-be 20th win might have cost him the award.

11. JoeHova Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3391661)

He's right that throwing a lot of innings is valuable but Lincecum only pitched 7.2 fewer innings than Wainwright. If Lincecum had thrown 190 innings or something (like Carpenter did), the author would have a better case.

12. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:09 PM (#3391663)

(Wainwright) won three games in April, two in May, three in June, four in July, four in August and three in September.

Spare me your fancy sabermetrics, nerd-boy. Forget about stats like WpM (Wins per Month), get out of your mother's basement and just tell me how much Budwesier each candidate pounded.

13. Randy Jones

Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:13 PM (#3391670)

get out of your mother's basement and just tell me how much Budwesier each candidate pounded.

If that's what awards are going to be based on, we might as well just give Wade Boggs every award ever. Although I think he drank Miller Lite and not Bud.

14. RJ in TO Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:15 PM (#3391675)

I don't think the writers would have made a mistake by choosing Wainwright.

I don't think they would have made a mistake either. Of course, I also don't think they made a mistake by choosing Lincecum. The three of them were all close enough in terms of performance that good cases could be made for any of them.

15. Mexicutioners Axe Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:17 PM (#3391683)

If a Bullpen Fatigue Index was drawn up he would still ignore because it would be one a them new fandangled statistics people keep hollerin' bout.

16. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:26 PM (#3391704)

Derek Jeter has never been credited with a win. Neither has Albert Pujols. Obviously they're just in it for the money.

17. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:31 PM (#3391714)

Uh, robbed? Did this guy watch Lincecum pitch even an inning this year?? He was clearly the most dominant player of this year.

I don't find this a particularly Ziffian comment. Please try again.

18. cpass Posted: November 19, 2009 at 10:51 PM (#3391751)

Winning games is the whole point of playing, so that statistic should carry great weight.

My brain shut down when I read that. I wonder how he felt about Greinke winning; is he one of the many who felt the AL was a no-brainer and the right guy won?

19. JPWF13

Posted: November 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM (#3391802)

Many baseball writers downplayed the value of actually winning games, since Lincecum won just 15 times with a decent supporting team.

Tbe Giants?
decent SUPPORTING team,

let's see, who was the best player after the Freak? Cain? How does that help the Freak win games?

20. Jeff K. Posted: November 19, 2009 at 11:46 PM (#3391827)

It is funny that the writer sees no disconnect between "Winning games is the whole point of playing, so that statistic should carry great weight" and his speculating later on how the Cards' bullpen blowing Wainwright's would-be 20th win might have cost him the award.

It's my birthday, I'm allowed one "der" moment, so: Neither do I?

21. Jimmy P Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:00 AM (#3391842)

(and the comments are funny in the so-bad-its-good sense)

They really go after Keith Law for voting Vazquez second. It's really funny.

22. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:34 AM (#3391873)

He's right that throwing a lot of innings is valuable but Lincecum only pitched 7.2 fewer innings than Wainwright.

And allowed 6 fewer runs, so that really goes nowhere.

23. Harold Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:39 AM (#3391876)

It's my birthday, I'm allowed one "der" moment, so: Neither do I?

That wins are teammate-dependent.

24. greenback

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:47 AM (#3391881)

Linking Jeff Gordon? Repoz, you are a bad, bad man.

25. Jeff K. Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM (#3391883)

Okay, then I rescind the characterization of my confusion as my der moment. The Cards' bullpen blowing Wainwright's 20th win and the resultant impact on his CY chances is not 'disconnected' from "wins are important and should be given great weight in CY voting." There's no mutual exclusivity there. There's no logical inconsistency in having the position that win totals should be heavily considered in voting while also acknowledging the fact that there is some teammate dependence.

26. ValueArbitrageur Posted: November 20, 2009 at 06:17 AM (#3392059)

Lincecum struck out Pujols and Holiday 3 times this year, Wainwright didn't get either out all year long, how can he even be in the conversation?

27. Baldrick Posted: November 20, 2009 at 06:29 AM (#3392073)

You know who actually got jobbed? The Irish, that's who.

Amirite?

28. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 20, 2009 at 06:40 AM (#3392075)

Homer hack columnist says local guy got robbed. Lather. rinse. repeat.

Close thread, please. This describes everything of use that will come in this thread.

29. Dr Stankus and the Semicolons Posted: November 20, 2009 at 06:44 AM (#3392076)

Not that it is germane to selecting the best pitcher, but on what planet does the Giants 2009 Offense represent a decent supporting team?

They scored 657 runs, 4.06 per game. Better only than such offensive juggernauts as PIT, SD and HOU. They had the worst OPS+ in the NL by 7 points.

30. Howie Menckel Posted: November 20, 2009 at 06:50 AM (#3392077)

"Gordon is an idiot, I honestly think that any of the three could/should have won it, and that nobody could claim to have gotten jobbed if they didn't win."

I hate when somebody steals my post

:(
;)

31. Yardape Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:02 AM (#3392102)

You know who actually got jobbed? The Irish, that's who.

Amirite?

Yes.

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Gordon: Wainwright got jobbed in Cy Young voting

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