I don't see how anyone could argue that some numbers enhance our understanding of how baseball is played.

which is why I said some numbers.

but had Sabean made some better decisons, perhaps this team wouldn't be where it is.

I think the larger point is that Sabean made those decisions expecting to have Barry Bonds in the lineup for the full season. Now maybe Sabean shouldn't have operated on that assumption, and maybe he would have made the same decisions anyway had he known that Bonds was going to be MIA. It's fair to ask whether Sabean should have anticipated that he *might* not have Bonds available for a large chunk of the season. But I don't think it's entirely fair to point to Sabean's offseason decisions - made in an entirely different context, in a world where Barry was expected to be ready Opening Day - and suggest that those decisions have put the team in this position, when the evidence suggests otherwise.

-- MWE

A column is not a investigative report, it is opinion. Regardless of how well Alou is playing -- and he been on the DL already this year, hasn't he ? -- or Vizquel and Matheny...this team is very old, and it can't possibly hold together.

Some people like to back up (or even base) their opinion on facts. Studes wrote an article suggesting Sabean has a history of getting good value out of veteran players. Sabean has (so far) got good value out of these veteran signings. The fact that your article doesn't even reference how well these guys have been playing... do you really consider looking up a player's OPS to be worthy of an investigative report? Sheesh.

As to the team's age - the Giants aren't playing well enough. And the team is old. But is there a connection? The fact that some of the oldest players are the best (Alou) and the youngest are the worst (Feliz) might suggest it's not as simple as that. Clearly, good old players are better than young crappy ones. The Giants problem is that they have too many crappy players, not too many old players.

You can blame it all on the Steroid Diva's Greatest Player In History's absence if you want to, but had Sabean made some better decisons, perhaps this team wouldn't be where it is.

No, I blame the pitching too. But what better decisions could Sabean have made? Oh, that's right, you don't say - here or in your article. Just as you don't say what better trades Beane could have made. Because you don't know what would have been better, you don't know what the market is, and you speak from ignorance.

Go write about the romance and the "illusion" of the game. Because when it comes to the reality, you're struggling. As for me, I must learn not to feed the trolls.

Some people like to back up (or even base) their opinion on facts.

Obviously you haven't heard that you should never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion.

See, I value the memory, the romance, the illusion, the beauty of the game. This is not to say that you don't. It's just that some numbers and new stats aren't appealing to me.

It's not for lack of understanding, just different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Right, exactly. I don't mind that you don't want to look at numbers. I just find it offensive when you write, "I honmestly don't think DIPS and PECOTA guys do [watch games]." You'd be hard-pressed to find a group of fans more rabid about baseball and who watch more games than those who hang out here. Just click the "Game Chatter" link on the top right to witness lots of people obsessing about the minutaie of each game in real-time. After just a few minutes there, I think you'll realize that people can love numbers and also react very emotionally to games.

which is why I said some numbers.

Fair enough, but your posts indicate that you don't really understand which are which. Moreover, you implicitly dismissed people just because they might not share with you an appreciation for the same numbers you happen to like. That's kind of narrow.

Because you don't know what would have been better, you don't know what the market is, and you speak from ignorance.

Go write about the romance and the "illusion" of the game. Because when it comes to the reality, you're struggling. As for me, I must learn not to feed the trolls.

I was invited to post here, so I wouldn't consider myself a troll.

And for crossing out Steroid Diva and writing "Greatest Player in History", that's all I need to know, thanks for clearing that up, Kool Aid Man.

Fair enough, but your posts indicate that you don't really understand which are which. Moreover, you implicitly dismissed people just because they might not share with you an appreciation for the same numbers you happen to like. That's kind of narrow.

You're right, I shouldn't dismiss things on a widespread basis...I just get a lot of e-mails with messages like Stats = Truth.

I prefer to use stats more traditional stats, myself.

Stats = samples = observations

observations + margin of error = truth

And, margin of error is much higher than the typical fan is willing to concede.