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Thursday, March 11, 2010

Granger: Did the 2009 Yankees Produce the Greatest Infield (Plus Catcher) in MLB History?

And as Mandel puts it…“a meticulous piece of research” by Jamal Granger.

The Year of the Ox – The Year of the Brown Earth Cow: The 2009 New York Yankees – Kate Hudson > All

The 2009 World Series Champions, New York Yankees (for someone who will be following the team for just his 8th year in 2010, you have no idea how good it feels to read that over), rank fourth on this list with their 24.1 total WAR. Unfortunately, the 2009 Bombers contain the majority of the players that amassed the three fewest plate appearances over the course of a listed campaign: Alex Rodriguez, 535; Dan Driessen (’74), 523; Jorge Posada, 438. Still, their combined 506.3 EqR and .309 EqA ranked second and first, respectively, on this list, and they also boasted both a top-five Cy Young candidate in Carsten Charles Sabathia and a top-three MVP candidate in Derek Jeter.

Speaking of the kid from Kalamazoo, the team captain led the Yankees with 6.5 WAR, and has the unpleasant distinction of essentially being the worst team leader in this category of all five teams. Still, do not let that fool you into thinking that Jeter did not set the American League on fire with his MVP-caliber season. Leading the league at the position in EqA (.310), EqR (115.6), HR (18), batting average (.334), OBP (.406) and wOBA (.390), he arguably had his best season since his back-to-back 1998 and 1999 seasons. Shifting to the defensive side of the game, his +5 TZ is the best he has recorded in his future HoF career. In 2009 at short stop in Major League Baseball, there was Hanley Ramirez, Derek Jeter and everyone else.

Repoz Posted: March 11, 2010 at 12:22 PM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: hall of fame, history, reds, sabermetrics, yankees

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1. TomH Posted: March 11, 2010 at 01:15 PM (#3477243)

Mr. Granger, allow me to introduce to you a man who plays shortstop by the name of Bartlett. Was almost as good offensively as Derek last year, and possibly better defensively.

Mr. Granger, allow me to introduce to you a man who plays shortstop by the name of Tulowitski. Was as good or better offensively as Derek last year, and possibly better defensively.

2. drone1313 Posted: March 11, 2010 at 01:29 PM (#3477244)

Not according to UZR. Those two scored negatively defensively last year.

Jeter had Bartlett beat by almost 3 WAR and Tulowitski by 2. Maybe that shouldn't have led the author to dismiss them out of hand the way he did, but he's certainly justified to call Jeter one of last year's elites.

3. drone1313 Posted: March 11, 2010 at 01:29 PM (#3477245)

4. TomH Posted: March 11, 2010 at 01:55 PM (#3477251)

one of last year's elites? Sure. Implying a huge gap with "everyone else"? Only if you take UZR as absolute truth.
Which I'd be OK with if it meant Jeter had to give back many of his phone gold gloves.

5. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: March 11, 2010 at 01:59 PM (#3477253)

Not according to UZR. Those two scored negatively defensively last year.

Well, turn off your brains! UZR has spoken! Jason Bartlett is no longer a good shortstop!

6. RollingWave Posted: March 11, 2010 at 02:14 PM (#3477256)

Tulo was also pretty damn good last year.

7. drone1313 Posted: March 11, 2010 at 02:44 PM (#3477262)

Fair enough. I suppose listing the corresponding TZ rankings for comparison might be interesting.

Jeter: 5
Tulowitski: 16
Bartlett: 0

Those three are all much closer in overall value using Sean Smith's WAR data. Tulowitski actually comes ahead of Jeter. Seeing as the author himself used these stats, I am more surprsed that he chose to create his own Hanley/Jeter plateau.

8. Accent Shallow Posted: March 11, 2010 at 03:03 PM (#3477271)

Does anyone think the 2009 version of Jason Bartlett is the player we'll see going forwards? I certainly don't.

9. AROM Posted: March 11, 2010 at 03:21 PM (#3477274)

Jeter was about 1.5 WAR ahead of Bartlett, partly due to playing more often, getting 150 more PA. I doubt Bartlett would have kept up the pace had he played more/hit at the top of the lineup more.

I'm surprised Tulo had a -1 UZR. When TZ and UZR disagree, my guess is 70/30 UZR is closer to being right. This, I think, is one of the 30%. The standard warnings about using a single year of defensive data apply. Tulo was +15 in 2007, his other fulltime injury free year.

10. Danny Posted: March 11, 2010 at 03:24 PM (#3477276)

1975 CIN (29.4 WAR): Perez: 3.1 WAR; Morgan: 12 WAR; Concepcion: 3.4 WAR; Rose: 4.4 WAR; Bench: 6.5 WAR

1976 CIN (26.2 WAR): Perez: 1.8 WAR; Morgan: 10 WAR; Concepcion: 3.8 WAR; Rose: 6.7 WAR; Bench: 3.9 WAR

1974 CIN (26.1 WAR): Perez: 2.1 WAR; Morgan: 9.1 WAR; Concepcion: 5.1 WAR; Driessen: 2.2 WAR; Bench: 7.6 WAR

2009 NYY (24.1 WAR): Teixeira: 5.9 WAR; Cano: 5.1 WAR; Jeter: 6.5 WAR; A-Rod: 3.9 WAR; Posada: 2.7 WAR

2002 NYY (23.4 WAR): Giambi: 7.3 WAR; Soriano: 4.7 WAR; Jeter: 3.4 WAR; Ventura: 3.9 WAR; Posada: 4.1 WAR

As I noted in yesterday's thread...

2001 OAK (27.2 WAR): Giambi 10.3; Menechino 3.7; Chavez 6.4; Tejada 4.4; Hernandez 2.4

11. Randy Jones

Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:00 PM (#3477296)

The 2007 Yankees had A-Rod: 9.9, Posada: 5.8, Cano: 5.6, Jeter: 4.6
Those 4 alone total 25.9.
Mientkiewicz had the most games played for them at 1B that year, but even that was only 70G and 458 innings. He had .8 WAR, so that would push the total to 26.7

12. Jamal G. Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:00 PM (#3477297)

Danny, an addendum is going up at TYU later today explaining this. The 1982 Brewers and all other Diamond Units that may have accumulated more WAR than the five teams I listed were not included in the list because the database used to rank these units were by EqA and EqR, not WAR. I just calculated the total WAR for the five best units by EqA and EqR.

13. Jamal G. Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:02 PM (#3477298)

Also, the "In 2009 at short stop ..." line was referring to the overall production of both Jeter and Ramirez, not just their specific defensive contributions. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Lastly, you guys are right: I should not have dismissed the 2009 campaigns of Bartlett and Tulowitzki as I did. I do maintain that they were the two best short stops in the game last year, but the implication that there was a huge gap between the next tier is incorrect.

14. AROM Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:14 PM (#3477306)

Another great one from way back is the 116 game winning 1906 Cubs.

Tinker 3.9 to Evers 3.2 to Chance 8.4 plus C Kling 4.1 and 3b Steinfeldt 7.8, a total of 27.4

Off the top of my head I thought of the 1996 Orioles with Ripken/Alomar/Palmeiro, but they come in just under 20 WAR. They weren't as valuable as their batting stats look at first, 1996 was a ridiculous year for overall offense.

15. Jamal G. Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:24 PM (#3477311)

AROM, I glad you brought up that unit. Obviously, the headline is a bit of sensationalism on my part as the data only goes back to 1969, but I was truly eager to publish this post because of the possibility that others could name some Diamond Units (before '69 or otherwise) that I would never dream of.

16. TomH Posted: March 11, 2010 at 04:36 PM (#3477317)

Jamal, fair enough; I would agree with your premise, and am always glad to see somone respond well to critique.
Some of us tend to reflexively bash anything we see as Jeter worship, having seen way to much of it, but I shouldn't dismiss how much he helped the 09 Champs.

17. AROM Posted: March 11, 2010 at 05:51 PM (#3477373)

18. Big Train Posted: March 11, 2010 at 06:02 PM (#3477387)

Well, turn off your brains! UZR has spoken! Jason Bartlett is no longer a good shortstop!

How about we turn off UZR. If a "historically bad" defensive SS suddenly turns around his defense at the age of 33, maybe that means he wasn't that historically bad at all.

Maybe defensive statistics are garbage?

19. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: March 11, 2010 at 06:23 PM (#3477404)

I was looking at some of the early Pirate teams but didn't find any with great infields. I thought having several years of 10 WAR Wagner would give them a chance, but Wagner pretty much carried those teams (along with Fred Clarke in the OF). They couldn't find a 1b who could hit, even by deadball standards.

Pretty much... although Tommy Leach was pretty good too. They'd have a better chance to make the list if he hadn't spent so much time in the outfield.

20. philphan Posted: March 11, 2010 at 07:45 PM (#3477493)

How about we turn off UZR. If a "historically bad" defensive SS suddenly turns around his defense at the age of 33, maybe that means he wasn't that historically bad at all.

Maybe. But there's also the issue of The Derek's altered offseason workouts. This topic is not exactly new--there was a recent item in SN, and a recent article in the NY Daily News; I recall this originally being reported in a NJ newspaper late in 2007 or early in 2008, describing the special training regimen that he had adopted (but I can no longer find the article online. And a recent Phillies story describes how Chase Utley adopted the "Jeter workout" this past offseason to increase his range. And once you factor in the coaching changes with the Yankees, with the possibility that Jeter may have adjusted his positioning, it seems quite possible that Jeter's defensive performance improved--and not necessarily that UZR (or any other defensive measure) needs to be thrown out.

Edit: Hmmm, somehow or other I managed to make the NYDN and Phillyburbs links work, but not the SN link. Let's try that again.

21. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: March 11, 2010 at 07:57 PM (#3477507)

The 2009 World Series Champions, New York Yankees (for someone who will be following the team for just his 8th year in 2010, you have no idea how good it feels to read that over),

Boo effen hoo.

I forgot it's every Yankee fan's birthright to watch them win the World Series the year they start following the team.

22. Big fan Posted: March 11, 2010 at 08:42 PM (#3477569)

#21 It isn't? Five years later and some guys still can't get over the 2004 ALCS.
<http://www.mlbexpertanalysis.com/blog/?p=106>

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Granger: Did the 2009 Yankees Produce the Greatest Infield (Plus Catcher) in MLB History?

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