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Tuesday, March 26, 2013

Grantland: Curtis: Being a Latino ballplayer in Arizona

I put those concerns to Joe Arpaio, the sheriff of Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix. Sheriff Joe is a noisy supporter of SB 1070 and stricter deportation policies. It is a strange fate of the times that Sheriff Joe has jurisdiction over the Cactus League territory.

“Nobody’s going to go around stopping them at a restaurant, asking for their ID,” Arpaio says.

He pauses and adds, “Unless there’s some other reason to do that.”

Sheriff Joe is a Red Sox fan. Since he was raised outside Boston, he sees his continuous fandom as one more sign of his political consistency. When I reach Sheriff Joe one afternoon, he has just gotten off the DL — he fell on a sidewalk and broke his shoulder in two places. “I know how the ballplayers feel now,” he says.

“Bring those ballplayers to me,” he barks. “I’ll give ‘em a pair of pink underwear.” This is more welcoming than it sounds. For though Arpaio puts pink underwear on county inmates, he also uses it as a gift for visiting celebrities. Sarah Palin got a pair when she toured Arizona last year.

Really, Sheriff Joe wants any Latino ballplayer who fears he might be racially profiled to stop by. “I wish they’d come to my office and come out and meet the sheriff,” he says. “I’ll tell ‘em all the facts about this … We don’t stop people because they look like they’re from somewhere else. I’m an equal-opportunity guy. My guys arrest everybody.”

...To a police officer, Barajas could arouse the same “reasonable suspicion” as Elian Herrera. Barajas’s parents are Mexican immigrants; his skin is olive-colored. But he was born in Ontario, California. He’s as American as Mike Trout. I ask Barajas if he is ever worried about being asked for his papers.

“I don’t know if I should carry my birth certificate or passport. I never thought about it,” he says. “I’m sure it could happen.”

Then Barajas’s eyes narrow. “I think of myself as an American citizen. There’s no reason whatsoever for me to have to carry that around.”

Thanks to Vance.

Repoz Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:48 AM | 228 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, general, history, media

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   201. just plain joe Posted: March 28, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4398417)
One does not rebut a force of nature, one simply waits until the wind stops blowing.

Yes, how many years can a mountain exist
Before it's washed to the sea ?
Yes, how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free ?
Yes, how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn't see ?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

   202. just plain joe Posted: March 28, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4398418)
One does not rebut a force of nature, one simply waits until the wind stops blowing.


Yes, how many years can a mountain exist
Before it's washed to the sea ?
Yes, how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free ?
Yes, how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn't see ?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.



   203. just plain joe Posted: March 28, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4398420)
My apologies for the double post.
   204. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4398677)
Since you didn't toss any grenades - desperate or otherwise - at the concept of desperately needing young people, wouldn't the beggars and choosers bit apply here?

No, because with ~16 percent unemployment among low-skilled people, the U.S. isn't "desperate" at all right now for additional low-skilled workers. The U.S. also isn't a "beggar" when it comes to attracting immigrants; it simply has an outdated immigration system that makes it easy for low-skilled people to come and stay in the U.S. (legally or illegally) but makes skilled people jump through hoops and wait for months or years for a visa.

Liberals often say the U.S. should be more like Canada. Well, Canada has had a skills-based immigration system for years if not decades, and it doesn't seem to be having the problems the U.S. is having when it comes to immigration. Likewise, Mexico has a skills- and wealth-based immigration system; the overwhelming majority of Mexican illegal immigrants in the U.S. would have no chance whatsoever of gaining entry to Mexico if they were from somewhere else.

***
Wow, I thought they were all just sticking around in order to make life miserable for Joe Kehoskie.

Still waiting for anything resembling a facts- or economics-based argument from you, Andy, particularly a reply to #132. It's obvious you have nothing to offer except "Arpaio!" and "xenophobe!" but I figured I'd ask again anyway.
   205. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 28, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4398725)
Wow, I thought they were all just sticking around in order to make life miserable for Joe Kehoskie.

Still waiting for anything resembling a facts- or economics-based argument from you, Andy, particularly a reply to #132.


Maybe you missed McCoy's response in #189 to that here-comes-the-boogeyman set of numbers you had in that commment. Maybe you missed Johnny S.'s reply in #137. Your entire Chicken Little scenario is based on an implication that Mexican immigration (most of which is low-skilled) is going to ruin our country, and particularly our existing working class, which you also say will only be hurt by unionization.

It's obvious you have nothing to offer except "Arpaio!" and "xenophobe!" but I figured I'd ask again anyway.

Joe, your utter lack of ironical self-awareness in wanting to restrict immigration after your own ancestors made it over here without any quotas makes you a sitting target for pretty much any sarcastic remark. Here's my favorite Joe K highlight so far from this thread, which could have been written by Joe A. himself:

The long term is a challenge, but that doesn't mean the GOP should just throw up its hands and accelerate its potential extinction.

Despite all the rhetoric, including some from saboteurs inside the GOP, low-skilled immigrants, especially low-skilled immigrants from Latin America, are natural Democrats. They like big government and they want big government. Hell, a poll last month showed that the average "Republican" Latino likes big government more than the average white Democrat....

As a conservative, I want to see the GOP start worrying a lot more about appealing to working-class people of all races and ethnicities rather than engaging in an ill-fated mission to bribe Latinos with amnesty (which we know, from Reagan's 1986 amnesty, won't work anyway).


And people wonder why your Tea Party brand of "conservatives" are dragging the Republicans down to their lowest polling numbers since the days of Watergate.

Lost amidst all of your above political rhetoric is even a hint that you understand what makes America different (and in this way better) than the vast majority of other advanced democracies. Your idea of immigration is to cherry-pick certain high-skilled (or rich) foreigners and entice them with low tax rates, and let the rest of their fellow countrymen go back where they came from. At the risk of sounding rhetorical, if we'd adopted that sort of mentality back when your ancestors came over here, we'd be a second rate power with a stagnant economy.
   206. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 28, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4398738)
Being that close to so many different people from so many different places leaves me convinced of two things. The first is that behind every ethnic label lies incredible internal diversity, none more than the label "Hispanic" or "Latino". The second is that the children of immigrants to America are Americans. For better or worse, they act like Americans, they talk like Americans, they respond to American culture.
Yes, but do they vote Republican? Because if not, they need to GTFO, amirite?!?!?! We don't want them sabotaging the GOP!
   207. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 28, 2013 at 06:40 PM (#4398741)
If Cubans didn't vote republican they'd be called "Island Mexicans"
   208. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 07:03 PM (#4398749)
Maybe you missed McCoy's response in #189 to that here-comes-the-boogeyman set of numbers you had in that commment. Maybe you missed Johnny S.'s reply in #137. Your entire Chicken Little scenario is based on an implication that Mexican immigration (most of which is low-skilled) is going to ruin our country, and particularly our existing working class, which you also say will only be hurt by unionization.

McCoy's #189 was a factually incorrect hand-wave. With over 40 million foreign-born people in the U.S., the idea that immigration is a trumped-up non-issue is silly.

Joe, your utter lack of ironical self-awareness in wanting to restrict immigration after your own ancestors made it over here without any quotas makes you a sitting target for pretty much any sarcastic remark. Here's my favorite Joe K highlight so far from this thread, which could have been written by Joe A. himself:

Ha ha. Talk about an "utter lack of self-awareness." I've been mocking you for two pages for offering nothing but "Arpaio!" and "xenophobe!" as a "rebuttal," and you come right back with more of the same.

And people wonder why your Tea Party brand of "conservatives" are dragging the Republicans down to their lowest polling numbers since the days of Watergate.

Hmm, the GOP controls the House, is within striking distance in the Senate, enjoys a 30 to 19 advantage among governors, and controls 27 state legislatures to the Dems' 17.

As I've been saying since Election Day, the death of the GOP is greatly exaggerated.

Lost amidst all of your above political rhetoric is even a hint that you understand what makes America different (and in this way better) than the vast majority of other advanced democracies. Your idea of immigration is to cherry-pick certain high-skilled (or rich) foreigners and entice them with low tax rates, and let the rest of their fellow countrymen go back where they came from. At the risk of sounding rhetorical, if we'd adopted that sort of mentality back when your ancestors came over here, we'd be a second rate power with a stagnant economy.

LOL. Nothing funnier than liberals who believe diversity is some magic elixir, with education, job skills, etc., either secondary or irrelevant.

"Diversity" is to modern politics and modern business as "team chemistry" is to baseball — highly overrated.
   209. Tilden Katz Posted: March 28, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4398752)
the death of the GOP is greatly exaggerated


Especially with guys like this at the helm!
   210. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4398786)
"Diversity" is to modern politics and modern business as "team chemistry" is to baseball — highly overrated.
In an increasingly interconnected global business world, this is exactly the attitude we need to take us forward.
   211. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:23 PM (#4398794)
In an increasingly interconnected global business world, this is exactly the attitude we need to take us forward.

Sounds like you endorse diversity for diversity's sake, without any concern for actual skills and qualifications.

Are illiterate workers from Oaxaca going to help the U.S. negotiate a better free-trade agreement with Mexico?
   212. Lassus Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:25 PM (#4398795)
"Diversity" is to modern politics and modern business as "team chemistry" is to baseball — highly overrated.

I look forward to the Republican Party and modern business following your advice and lining up to support Towson University!
   213. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:27 PM (#4398798)
Oh, good. Lassus has joined the rebuttal-by-weird-link brigade.

"I don't have a fact-based rebuttal to your comments, but — Hey, look at these weirdos over there!"
   214. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4398803)
Are illiterate workers from Oaxaca going to help the U.S. negotiate a better free-trade agreement with Mexico?

Maybe not, but they're going to make amazing moles. That's at least as important.

Just out of curiosity, where in Mexico did you live Joe?
   215. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4398805)
Yucatan. (The last word of your first sentence might leave some people scratching their heads, so here.)
   216. Lassus Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4398817)
"I don't have a fact-based rebuttal to your comments, but —Hey, look at these weirdos over there!"

I can't help it, the people you're allied with just keep setting them up to knock down. I'm only human.

Besides, I've been convinced that immigrants should learn English, say. When in the name of god have you ever moved an inch from your blunt hammer Best Hits of Yahoo - Liberals LOL mantra?
   217. Lassus Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:09 PM (#4398821)
Please no more superior conservative heterodoxy comments for the 12th time. Just say if you've ever agreed with anything any liberal here has ever said, or your mind has changed, once, ever.
   218. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4398823)
Yucatan.

Whereabouts? I really enjoyed Merida (and Tulum and Isla Mujeres) from the couple of months I spent there. Even Cancun has its redeeming points.
   219. Joe Kehoskie Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:20 PM (#4398828)
Just say if you've ever agreed with anything any liberal here has ever said, or your mind has changed, once, ever.

I once sided with Srul Itza over The Good Face* when it comes to Jack Russell Terriers. (I'm in the pro- camp.) Does that count?


(* Who's usually a voice of reason around here, but nobody's perfect, I guess.)

***
Whereabouts? I really enjoyed Merida (and Tulum and Isla Mujeres) from the couple of months I spent there. Even Cancun has its redeeming points.

Merida. Great city, but still mostly under the radar among gringos because it's not on the beach. (Canadians, on the other hand, are slowly taking over the place.)

I'm not a big fan of Cancun, but the tourist zone is nice, and the city has come a long way after essentially being started from scratch just ~40 years ago.
   220. Lassus Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4398849)
Does that count?

No.
   221. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: March 28, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4398854)
Merida. Great city, but still mostly under the radar among gringos because it's not on the beach. (Canadians, on the other hand, are slowly taking over the place.)

I'm not a big fan of Cancun, but the tourist zone is nice, and the city has come a long way after essentially being started from scratch just ~40 years ago.

Yeah, the main redeeming feature of Cancun in my eyes is a taco stand in a park near the ADO bus terminal. Best tacos I've ever had. The rest of the city is pretty miserable. Merida is nice. I was there for dia de los muertos a couple years ago and it was fun to just wander around the main zocalo and people watch.
   222. formerly dp Posted: March 28, 2013 at 10:31 PM (#4398889)
Besides, I've been convinced that immigrants should learn English
At gunpoint?
   223. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 28, 2013 at 10:43 PM (#4398899)
Sounds like you endorse diversity for diversity's sake, without any concern for actual skills and qualifications.
No, but it sounds like you want to believe that, and I know there's no convincing you otherwise.
Are illiterate workers from Oaxaca going to help the U.S. negotiate a better free-trade agreement with Mexico?
They'll be too busy stealing MLB Advanced Media jobs.
   224. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: March 29, 2013 at 11:10 PM (#4399546)
“I don’t know if I should carry my birth certificate or passport. I never thought about it,” he says. “I’m sure it could happen.”

Then Barajas’s eyes narrow. “I think of myself as an American citizen. There’s no reason whatsoever for me to have to carry that around.”


Apparently Barajas is paying a whole lot of attention to what he was taught in fourth grade, and not paying much attention at all to the way America actually works.

It's not that hard JSLF; if Mexico is a country that sucks, then why would we want to make America more like Mexico? And adopting their laws and stealing their population would both qualify.

The Democrats would love to implement Mexico's gun laws. They'll fail if push comes to shove, but if they could, they would.


I haven't thought you clinically insane, so I'll try reason. America is not better than Mexico in absolutely everything, therefore your argument makes no sense on its face. Nor does Mexico "suck". That's silly. Further, Democrats are trying to implement sane gun laws. Never mind that those laws are not identical to Mexico's. Even if they were, their relationship is incidental to their value. You grasp that we don't avoid the word "the" just because some awful people used it too, right?
   225. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: March 30, 2013 at 12:14 AM (#4399579)
And people wonder why your Tea Party brand of "conservatives" are dragging the Republicans down to their lowest polling numbers since the days of Watergate.


This isn't accurate, however. The GOP, in many senses, has won, and won big. Obama is a Republican on foreign policy. His enforcement of immigration law is to the right of Bush. There will be at best nominal progress against the loosest gun laws in a long time. The right won on welfare. It won on taxes, and the latest shift only got us very partly back to sensible tax policy. Corporations and the wealthy once again are making the greatest economic gains while unemployment remains high. The minimum wage is ridiculously low. The GOP dominates at the state level.

That Obama is in the White House doesn't mean the GOP lost. That Republicans are, for the moment, polling poorly doesn't mean they haven't won most of the battles over the last 33 years.

   226. Jay Z Posted: March 30, 2013 at 01:15 AM (#4399590)
This isn't accurate, however. The GOP, in many senses, has won, and won big. Obama is a Republican on foreign policy. His enforcement of immigration law is to the right of Bush. There will be at best nominal progress against the loosest gun laws in a long time. The right won on welfare. It won on taxes, and the latest shift only got us very partly back to sensible tax policy. Corporations and the wealthy once again are making the greatest economic gains while unemployment remains high. The minimum wage is ridiculously low. The GOP dominates at the state level.

That Obama is in the White House doesn't mean the GOP lost. That Republicans are, for the moment, polling poorly doesn't mean they haven't won most of the battles over the last 33 years.


Sort of. They mainly have lost all of the social issue battles. The 1% is a clear winner, so much so that many of them don't need to vote Republican anymore and can vote Dem based on social issues. That all might have happened anyway regardless of what the parties did.

I don't know if the grass roots Republican voter loves spending on the military so much that they love what's happened to the defense budget. Is that something they're really giddy about? Maybe, but I doubt it. Most people have no idea where the government spends its money anyway.
   227. Jay Z Posted: March 30, 2013 at 02:22 AM (#4399598)
double dribble
   228. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: March 30, 2013 at 03:23 AM (#4399604)
Sort of. They mainly have lost all of the social issue battles.
Like on, say, abortion?

The 1% is a clear winner,...
Yup, though it's hard not to add, "as always", and income inequality is a big social issue battle. Less well off folks lost on housing, too, which means neighborhoods. Labor is a huge social issue loss for those of us who don't believe in economic slavery. Prisons and sentencing were and are a huge loss for the left, though that tide may be just ever so slightly turning. Nice to see two states gaining a little sanity wrt marijuana. People of color aren't doing any better, though that one guy got a promotion a while back and has kept his job...

Most people have no idea where the government spends its money anyway.
Amazing, isn't it? You'd figure what with all that channel surfing eventually middle America would stumble on some numbers.
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