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Monday, August 04, 2014

Grantland: The Diamondbacks’ Disgrace, or: A List of Things Kirk Gibson Can Kiss

It’s annoying when the Diamondbacks complain about who jumps in their pool or bad-mouth a player who’s on the way out, under the cover of anonymity. They’re going to lose a lot, which matters to me not at all, because I’m one of the fortunate folks whose happiness isn’t based on the Diamondbacks’ success. I can even live with Gibson and Miguel Montero taking the “we’re not happy until you’re not happy” approach after losses, because if the Diamondbacks aren’t going to have fun when they lose, the Dodgers or whoever else aren’t allowed to have fun when they win.

Where they cross the line is by throwing at hitters.

Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 04, 2014 at 05:02 PM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: arizona, arizona diamondbacks, pittsburgh, pittsburgh pirates

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   1. valuearbitrageur Posted: August 04, 2014 at 10:36 PM (#4764439)
I have already forgotten about the Adam Eaton/Tyler Skaggs trade, why would anyone want years of minimum wage level control of a center-fielder putting up a 5+WAR season and a young starting pitcher when you can pay $5M+ a year to have Trumbo playing "defense" and leading the league in OffBP?

The only way it gets better is if the DBacks make Trumbo wear a clown nose in the outfield!
   2. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 04, 2014 at 11:43 PM (#4764468)
Arizona could've had a core of Goldschmidt, Justin Upton, Eaton, Scherzer, Skaggs and Bauer.

But that's not nearly enough grit.
   3. Brian Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4764653)
Wow #2 is a pretty damning list of mistakes.
   4. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:06 PM (#4764660)
#3--And, really, they could have had it by simply avoiding trades that were roundly mocked the day they were made.
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:25 PM (#4764684)
Don't forget Ian Kennedy and Jarrod Parker. Chris Johnson too, although he has kinda sucked this year. And Ryan Cook and Collin Cowgill and Zach Walters who was just traded for Asdrubal Cabrera.
   6. DA Baracus Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4764700)
But that didn’t stop Arizona’s Dave McKay, who, for clarity’s sake, is a first base coach and not a player or a preschooler, from running out of the dugout to try to start something with Pirates catcher Russell Martin after the game.


Dave McKay, Dave MacKay.
   7. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4764727)
And then there's Brandon McCarthy, now pitching quite well in New York. Either the D'backs couldn't figure out how to fix him or, worse, they were the ones who screwed him up.
   8. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 05, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4764731)
thought the word from mccarthy was that the d'backs didn't want him throwing a pitch he liked to throw
   9. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 05, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4764738)
   10. dr. scott Posted: August 05, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4764740)
Ive heard that and they wanted him to primarily just throw sinkers, and he is mixing in more curve balls as well as the cutter that they supposedly did not want him to throw... but as someone else pointed out, he threw a lot of cutters last year and was not that good then either. Could just be a bad work environment for him that exacerbated a few mechanical issues that the D-backs could not fix and may have made worse.
   11. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 05, 2014 at 01:12 PM (#4764741)
as a quick comparison of managerial effectiveness even if your manager has doofus tendencies eh can offset that issue by creating an environment where talent succeeds.

the brewers manager seems to have that knack. guys like carlos gomez, lucroy, khris davis, wily peralta, scooter gennett have all met or exceeded scout/management expectations with ron as the manager. so even though ron has his team run into 5000 outs a season and cannot manage the bullpen any better than a lemonade stand he helps the team. might even say he comes out ahead.

is gibson doing that for the diamondbacks? is young talent getting their sea legs under gibson?
   12. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 05, 2014 at 02:20 PM (#4764810)
is young talent getting their sea legs under gibson?
Kinda, sorta. Didi Gregorius (24) is playing well after proving last year that he was MLB ready and Chris Owings (22) was on track for a 4-5 WAR season before getting hurt. But no young pitcher is standing out.
   13. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 05, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4764815)
Don't forget Ian Kennedy...
At the end of Kennedy's time in the desert, Gibby hated hated HATED him. Don't know why, but it was something to behold. In one of Kennedy's last starts for Arizona, he got into early trouble. Making the first visit to the mound wasn't the pitching coach but Gibson, who then proceeded to air out Kennedy.
   14. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 05, 2014 at 02:37 PM (#4764851)
At the end of Kennedy's time in the desert, Gibby hated hated HATED him. Don't know why, but it was something to behold. In one of Kennedy's last starts for Arizona, he got into early trouble. Making the first visit to the mound wasn't the pitching coach but Gibson, who then proceeded to air out Kennedy.


Apparently, identicals don't attract, given that Kennedy is pretty much every bit the A-hole that Gibson is.

   15. PreservedFish Posted: August 05, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4764890)
And then there's Brandon McCarthy, now pitching quite well in New York. Either the D'backs couldn't figure out how to fix him or, worse, they were the ones who screwed him up.


We had a thread on this. Supposedly the DBacks wouldn't allow McCarthy to throw his favorite pitch. The Yankees asked him if he could bring it back into his repertoire before he even pulled on the pinstripes.
   16. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 05, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4764914)
Supposedly the DBacks wouldn't allow McCarthy to throw his favorite pitch.


They wouldn't allow him to throw it this year. He threw it last year while pitching for them, and he wasn't very good then either.

   17. PreservedFish Posted: August 05, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4764924)
Hey, quit stomping on my simplistic explanation.
   18. jwb Posted: August 05, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4765062)
The only significant trade Kevin Towers has won to date is Kelly Johnson to the Blue Jays for Aaron Hill and John McDonald. A lot of them figure to get worse.
   19. valuearbitrageur Posted: August 06, 2014 at 03:15 AM (#4765300)
I don't mind Scherzer for Ian Kennedy and what turned into Daniel Hudson, who together looked to be worth as much or more than Scherzer. The problem was that Gibby destroyed Hudson's arm, and wore Kennedy down so bad they traded him for a reliever, which probably saved Kennedy's arm. When Gibson's key starters are struggling at the same time the team is underperforming he has a tendency to put immense pressure on those starters.

At the end both Kennedy and Hudson had a string of starts where they were struggling badly, and Gibson forced them to stay out on the mound saying "they owe me 100 pitches". One could surmise that if a pitcher is laboring with his command and his form, possibly due to arm soreness, it's probably not the best time to force them to throw 100 pitches in their first three innings, and Hudson's UCL tore during a series of those type starts.
   20. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 06, 2014 at 04:27 AM (#4765305)
At the end of Kennedy's time in the desert, Gibby hated hated HATED him. Don't know why, but it was something to behold. In one of Kennedy's last starts for Arizona, he got into early trouble. Making the first visit to the mound wasn't the pitching coach but Gibson, who then proceeded to air out Kennedy.


My recollection is that he refused to throw at a batter, but I could be mistaken. There was a lot of hot air at the time about him being selfish and not wanting to protect teammates, that sort of thing.
   21. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 06, 2014 at 09:00 AM (#4765349)
My recollection is that he refused to throw at a batter, but I could be mistaken. There was a lot of hot air at the time about him being selfish and not wanting to protect teammates, that sort of thing.


Kennedy got a 10-game suspension for hitting Zack Greinke near the head last year (in retaliation for a Greinke HBP of Miguel Montero, which was in response to a Kennedy HBP of Puig in the face). If Kennedy and Gibson's feud was due to a desire not to throw at guys, he got religion awfully quick.

A month after the beaning (an actual beaning), Kennedy claimed Puig played "with a lot of arrogance."

Kennedy's problem is he's too much like Gibson.

   22. JE (Jason) Posted: August 06, 2014 at 09:28 AM (#4765362)
According to Olbermann, last year's pitching coach, Charles Nagy, was almost certainly canned for not buying into the vigilante approach discussed above.

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