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Sunday, April 06, 2014

Gregg Zaun isn’t afraid of ruffling a few feathers - The Globe and Mail

Ouch!

As far as the team not always playing the game the way it should be played, can you give an example of the Jays playing the wrong way?
The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can’t [use his speed to hit] .300 speaks volumes to me about what’s going on in the minor leagues. The fact that he doesn’t spend an hour a day in the batting cage with a coach, whether it’s by his design or whether they have to grab him by his shirt collar. The Jays don’t draft well and they don’t develop players well. There’s a lack of accountability in this organization, from the top to the bottom.

Jim Furtado Posted: April 06, 2014 at 06:04 PM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays

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   1. Ryan Lind Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4680552)
Well, we don't know if they draft well because they don't sign any of their draft picks.
   2. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4680555)
"And in case you were wondering, yes I am a hypocritical blowhard with no self-awareness."
   3. Lassus Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:05 PM (#4680556)
The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can’t [use his speed to hit] .300 speaks

What would have been here?
   4. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:16 PM (#4680568)
What would have been here?

I'm a bit rusty at Mad Libs.
   5. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:45 PM (#4680583)
What would have been here?


Probably something that would look incoherent if written verbatim, but amounted to "use his speed to hit."

Something like: The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can't, you know that guy can just fly, and it just boggles the mind you know, well, that he isn't hitting .300 speaks...

   6. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4680585)
That or he said something baseball people would instantly understand but dumb, dumb casuals might not, like "The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can't leg .300..."
   7. The_Ex Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:08 PM (#4680592)
Hustle his way?
   8. guajolote2 Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:45 PM (#4680614)
Not afraid to ruffle feathers, or just kind of an A-hole.
   9. RJ in TO Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:54 PM (#4680625)
Not afraid to ruffle feathers, or just kind of an A-hole.


A little of both. He's trying to set himself up as baseball's Don Cherry.
   10. Walt Davis Posted: April 06, 2014 at 09:28 PM (#4680638)
1. The focus should be on Gose's OBP more than his BA. Now it could be the most likely way to increase his OBP is through increasing BA but that depends on the kind of hitter he is.

2. Tony Womack was silly fast ... and a career 273 hitter. He stole 58+ bases three times and didn't hit better than 282 in any of those seasons; heck he didn't OBP better than 330.

3. SB is not a perfect correlate for speed but it's fair to say that pretty much everybody who managed 40+ steals in a season was pretty darn fast. Over the last 40 years, there have been 373 seasons of 40+ steals ... only 102 of them featured a BA of 300 or better. Last year 8 guys stole 40+ and not one of them hit 300 (Ellsbury at 298).

So either you need a lot more than speed to hit 300 or baseball has been failing at teaching speedy guys to hit 300 for at least 40 years. That doesn't mean Zaun's broader point about Gose's use of his speed or the Jays' development are wrong necessarily but it does suggest he's holding them to much too high of a standard.
   11. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 06, 2014 at 09:33 PM (#4680640)
He's trying to set himself up as baseball's Don Cherry.


Right down to the "flashy" suits.

   12. Cabbage Posted: April 06, 2014 at 09:54 PM (#4680647)
A little of both. He's trying to set himself up as baseball's Don Cherry.


So he'll badmouth all the Koreans and trumpet the virtues of good Dominican boys?
   13. Cooper Nielson Posted: April 07, 2014 at 02:27 AM (#4680726)
The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can’t [use his speed to hit] .300 speaks

What would have been here?


I always assume it's "f*** a** c*** n*****."
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 07:50 AM (#4680755)
2. Tony Womack was silly fast ... and a career 273 hitter. He stole 58+ bases three times and didn't hit better than 282 in any of those seasons; heck he didn't OBP better than 330.


As a counterpoint there, the Pirates' instructional staff when Womack was coming up through the system was absolutely terrible.
   15. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: April 07, 2014 at 08:10 AM (#4680760)
I'm pretty sure he was referring to Gose's minor league lack of success. I don't think he's expected to hit .300 in the bigs, but he's been terrible in the minors lately.

The broader point about poor accountability and drafting/development is spot on, to my eyes. The team from top to bottom makes way too many excuses.
   16. Matthew E Posted: April 07, 2014 at 08:52 AM (#4680772)
Zaun is a guy who does seem to have some kind of a clue, but it's often obscured by his apparent ambition to become an obnoxious blowhard. In this case I suspect that he has a point about the Jays.
   17. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 07, 2014 at 09:58 AM (#4680800)
I don't mind Zaun, but the Don Cherry suits are a bit much. He is right about the Jays recent record in drafting and player development.
The organization has only produced three players with even 5 WAR since (including) the 2004 draft, and none with 10. That is brutal.
   18. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 07, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4680806)
I can't speak to Zaun blowhardiness (or lack thereof), but I don't think that quote in the excerpt is wrong. The Blue Jays have had a problem developing players, especially position players.
   19. Matthew E Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4681099)
The Blue Jays have had a problem developing players, especially position players.
I don't know what lesson can be drawn from that, though, seeing as how they've also had a problem with every other aspect of running a baseball team.
   20. Coach Posted: April 07, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4681377)
#6 is close. Zaun probably heard Earl Weaver say "you can't run .300" way back when he was a kid, hanging out in the O's clubhouse with Uncle Rick (Dempsey.) I got to know Gregg fairly well in 2004-5; he is hilarious and profane when there's not a mic or camera around and seems kind of bored by this TV gig. The persona is deliberately Cherry-esque, as are Zaunie's politics.

Walt is 100% right. Every year, the fastest high school kid in every state that plays serious ball gets drafted. Once or twice in a generation, it pays off.

Gose (like Billy Hamilton, who just erased his own leadoff double with a bone-headed baserunning error) could hit HS pitching, so they never been taught to slap, chop or bunt. Last summer a bunch of us went to Buffalo to see Gose vs. Hamilton and were more impressed by their horrible fundamentals than their speed.
   21. base ball chick Posted: April 07, 2014 at 06:44 PM (#4681468)
i was thinking bout joining the battersbox forum when john was still alive, but then i heard there was no swearing aloud so i dint.

so any of youse guys got any theories about why the jays can't seem to develop a good position player?
   22. The District Attorney Posted: April 07, 2014 at 06:52 PM (#4681475)
The fact that a guy like Anthony Gose can’t [use his speed to hit] .300 speaks

What would have been here?
dongwrangle
   23. Matthew E Posted: April 08, 2014 at 08:55 AM (#4681676)
so any of youse guys got any theories about why the jays can't seem to develop a good position player?
Yes. It is a four-part theory.

1. The Jays are not particularly good at drafting players. They aren't terrible, but they aren't particularly good, and they concentrate on pitching probably more than they should.*
2. The Jays are not good at signing the players that they draft. Compared to the other 29 teams, I mean.
3. The Jays are not good at developing their young players.
4. The Jays are not good at keeping their players healthy.

--

* Pat Gillick used to emphasize drafting and acquiring position players, saying, "You can always find arms". He believed that it was better to have a great position player than a great pitcher.
   24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2014 at 09:25 AM (#4681692)
Didn't the Jays also stockpile tons of draft picks? That seems particularly damning.

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