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Monday, August 12, 2019

Half-million in loot stolen from A-Rod’s car in San Francisco, sources say

A thief smashed into baseball legend Alex “A-Rod” Rodriguez’s rental car Sunday night in San Francisco, making off with an estimated half-million dollars worth of jewelry and electronics, sources familiar with the investigation told The Chronicle.

Rodriguez was in town broadcasting the Giants and Philadelphia Phillies game for ESPN and he left his car on the 400 block of Brannan Street, about three blocks from Oracle Park, sources said.

Sometime between 9 p.m. and 11 p.m., someone broke into a car in that location and stole a camera, a laptop, miscellaneous jewelry and a bag, said Officer Adam Lobsinger, a San Francisco police spokesman. Lobsinger said the burglary involved a private citizen and it’s against department policy to release victim information.

But numerous sources told The Chronicle the victim was Rodriguez and the thieves pilfered roughly $500,000 worth of goods.

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:12 PM | 197 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: alex rodriguez

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   1. Monty Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5870686)
Is it technically loot before it gets stolen?
   2. SoSH U at work Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:24 PM (#5870688)
I wonder if Arod routinely travels around with half a million worth of jewelry and electronics in a rental car.
   3. JAHV Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5870689)
I wonder if Arod routinely travels around with half a million worth of jewelry and electronics in a rental car.


How dare you suggest he leave home without his diamond-studded saddle.
   4. Rennie's Tenet Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:47 PM (#5870691)
So it seems it was the broadcast team car, and they were dining after the game. Must be a pretty good restaurant, to just park on the street for it.
   5. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:48 PM (#5870692)
I wonder if Arod routinely travels around with half a million worth of jewelry and electronics in a rental car.

That depends. What's the street value of J-Lo nudes on his camera and/or laptop?
   6. I Helped Patrick McGoohan Escape Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:55 PM (#5870694)
Must be a pretty good restaurant, to just park on the street for it.


Both Cockscomb and Marlowe are just down the street and very good
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 12, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5870696)
Alex can afford valet parking. Rookie move.
   8. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:15 PM (#5870703)
As someone who lives in San Francisco... you do not leave stuff in your car here. Period. It will be stolen. We have an astronomical number of car break-ins, so many that the police generally won't even respond if you call them to report one. So many that, when they were filming a local news special about car break-ins last year, they caught a live car break-in on camera.

There are signs all over town, especially downtown, especially at night, telling you not to leave anything in your car. Especially on ball game nights, when they know people are driving in from out of town and looking for a place to park near the stadium.

(Especially a rental car - you might as well put a sign on your car saying "clueless out-of-towner". I know that the rental car places here have signs warning people about parking in the city because they've had so many issues with replacing broken windows.)
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:29 PM (#5870709)
just spitballing here - but maybe the police should crack down on this sort of thing?

seems like a wealthy city with what I suspect might be high tax rate could afford it (and if the rate isn't high, wouldn't it be worth it to do what it takes to fix this?).

   10. Tin Angel Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:32 PM (#5870712)
As someone who lives in San Francisco... you do not leave stuff in your car here.


My friend used to live on a side street in SOMA and every day walking to work there would be an insane amount of glass on the sidewalk from people busting out windows. I work in the Mission and yesterday I walked past a car with no one in it and all of the windows down. I guess that's one way to avoid a broken window.
   11. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:41 PM (#5870715)
just spitballing here - but maybe the police should crack down on this sort of thing?

We all want them to. Petty crime in San Francisco is rampant. I'm on Nextdoor (which, if you don't know, is essentially social media by neighborhood), and every morning I wake up to posts about car break-ins, garage break-ins, stolen packages, drug stuff dumped in someone's yard, etc. Stolen dogs are becoming a big thing, don't ever leave your dog alone, even for a minute. Bike thieves are big. People on bikes acting as thieves are big - they ride around and pluck the phones out of the hands of people who aren't paying attention. They were talking about shutting down all access to Twin Peaks (highest spot in the city and popular with tourists as a place to take in the sights) because there was so much crime.

The city is a mess, and yes taxes are crazy high. But we're much more concerned about making sure that school murals get painted over so that children don't have to learn about history, than we are about improving the state of the city. We need a Giuliani-style late 1980s NYC style makeover at this point - come in and just brute force the place back into civility.
   12. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:43 PM (#5870717)
They got the story wrong: someone broke into his rental chariot.
   13. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:45 PM (#5870722)
My friend used to live on a side street in SOMA and every day walking to work there would be an insane amount of glass on the sidewalk from people busting out windows. I work in the Mission and yesterday I walked past a car with no one in it and all of the windows down. I guess that's one way to avoid a broken window.

I have a couple of friends who have started doing this. One of them had to replace the window in his car 6 times in 18 months, so he gave up. He leaves the car unlocked and the window down. There's nothing in his car, not 10 cents for a parking meter or a ballpoint pen in the glove box.

There's a conspiracy theory around town (believed by more than a few) that the more unsavory auto repair shops are paying people to break out the windows in cars, even if they don't steal anything. People have come to expect broken windows, so they'd never think that something was amiss.
   14. Brian C Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:51 PM (#5870724)
The city is a mess, and yes taxes are crazy high. But we're much more concerned about making sure that school murals get painted over so that children don't have to learn about history, than we are about improving the state of the city

This tracks with my impression, which is that SFers, as a group, seem perhaps a little bit nuts.

That said, I wonder if a big part of the problem isn't that the enormous cost of living hasn't essentially transformed the city into a severely target-rich environment for this sort of crime. It's like a whole city of rich suckers. It must attract criminals from all over the country.
   15. I Helped Patrick McGoohan Escape Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:57 PM (#5870727)
you do not leave stuff in your car here. Period. It will be stolen.


I was walking my dog to Alamo Square a few weeks ago in the middle of a weekday. A car pulled up to the parked cars on Hayes, a dude leaned out of the window with a crowbar, smashed the window and grabbed a bag out of the car. They then sped off.

You NEVER leave anything visible in the car, it WILL get stolen.
   16. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:04 PM (#5870729)
just spitballing here - but maybe the police should crack down on this sort of thing?

seems like a wealthy city with what I suspect might be high tax rate could afford it (and if the rate isn't high, wouldn't it be worth it to do what it takes to fix this?).

There are too many homeless people in SF (also in LA and OC too) and there isn't a single reason why. Addressing the systemic problems would require tackling issues such as zoning, lawsuits (good, bad, or otherwise), tax policy, NIMBYs, drugs, and mental health. Decades of ignoring these issues has created the morass that we see today. It doesn't help that many of the homeless are dumped in the big cities by smaller cities (both inside and outside California).
   17. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5870730)
This tracks with my impression, which is that SFers, as a group, seem perhaps a little bit nuts.

There was a thread on Nextdoor about 4 months back - someone posted a picture of their front porch where, the previous night, a homeless person had slept, taken a bunch of diarrhea poops which were smeared on the walls and furniture, and left some dirty needles and other crap behind. The poster wanted to know if someone could recommend a better security lock for his door, so that this didn't happen again...

The response he got was that he should feel fortunate that he has a home, and rather than buying a lock he should leave his door open so that the next homeless person can come sleep inside. When he said that was crazy, he was told by multiple neighbors that he should get out of SF and move to where the rest of the Trump supporters are.

If you gave the average SFer the choice between eliminating street crime altogether or letting Walmart build one store here, I think about 90% would choose to allow crime to continue before they'd let a Walmart darken the hallowed streets of this city.
   18. Brian C Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:13 PM (#5870734)
The response he got was that he should feel fortunate that he has a home, and rather than buying a lock he should leave his door open so that the next homeless person can come sleep inside.

Which leads to my next question: why did this homeless guy need to dump all over this guy's porch, when there are so many accommodating folks with open doors in the neighborhood?
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:18 PM (#5870735)
Which leads to my next question: why did this homeless guy need to dump all over this guy's porch, when there are so many accommodating folks with open doors in the neighborhood?
It was diarrhea, so he probably didn't think he could make it to the neighbors' house.
   20. Tin Angel Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:21 PM (#5870736)
If you gave the average SFer the choice between eliminating street crime altogether or letting Walmart build one store here, I think about 90% would choose to allow crime to continue before they'd let a Walmart darken the hallowed streets of this city.


Possibly, though having been here over ten years now I feel like with all the tech/tech money in the city it is trending more conservative as each year passes. Could just be me I guess.
   21. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:24 PM (#5870738)
Which leads to my next question: why did this homeless guy need to dump all over this guy's porch, when there are so many accommodating folks with open doors in the neighborhood?

What we really need is a return of the old hobo symbol system, where they could mark people's houses with symbols indicating which ones would give out food, lodging, clothing, etc.

Given the opportunity to throw their doors open to the homeless, most people advocating it on the thread would probably say that they already do enough in their lives to be helpful and that other people need to pick up the slack. From behind their closed and locked doors, with their Ring camera doorbells and Comcast security systems.
   22. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5870740)
There are too many homeless people in SF (also in LA and OC too) and there isn't a single reason why.


Well if you gotta be homeless, might as well be somewhere where the weather is decent year round. Homeless people in Chicago in February are doing it tough, in San Diego...not quite as bad.

If you gave the average SFer the choice between eliminating street crime altogether or letting Walmart build one store here, I think about 90% would choose to allow crime to continue before they'd let a Walmart darken the hallowed streets of this city.


Glad to hear the city hasn't changed. I attended Berkeley in the early 80's and lived on Jones in the city for 4 years. I'm pretty left on the political spectrum but even I found much of the far left attitudes to be of such a militant nature that it was like it's own version of fascism.
   23. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:28 PM (#5870741)
Possibly, though having been here over ten years now I feel like with all the tech/tech money in the city it is trending more conservative as each year passes. Could just be me I guess.

I've been here since 2007, and I do think there are more people who are looking around in disbelief at what a mess has been created. But that group is still dwarfed by the number of people who still see SF as some kind of liberal hippie utopia of free love, pot smoking, and sticking it to the man. The ones who think that mom-and-pop stores should be given 10-year rent free leases to help them fight off Amazon, or that all cars should be banned from the city. The ones who, even 3 years later, are still plotting to get the Trump election invalidated and install Hillary as the rightful president (and you think I'm making that up, but I have a friend who meets weekly with a group that's still working on this).

(Although I guess banning cars would cut down on the number of car break-ins. So maybe that's the long game.)
   24. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:33 PM (#5870744)
I'm pretty left on the political spectrum but even I found much of the far left attitudes to be of such a militant nature that it was like it's own version of fascism.

Yeah, that's about right. I remember after the 2016 election when people in MAGA hats or Trump shirts were being openly beaten in the city, to the cheers of onlooking crowds. I looked it up on one of those vote tally websites, and in most neighborhoods in SF Clinton got between 90 and 95% of the vote. In some neighborhoods Trump didn't get a single vote.

(Not saying that people should or shouldn't have voted for trump, but you're not going to find many places in the US that were more one-sided than San Francisco was. The far left knows it's got all the power here, and they happily wield it in all kinds of truly mind-boggling ways.)
   25. Master of the Horse Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5870746)
23--Thanks for all the posts. But as insane as SF is about failing to deal with basic problems I need someone to explain some scenario where a reasonable person travels with a half million dollars worth of whatever. I remember my dad's wife losing her #### because he left his Lichtenstein print in his car when they lived in Palo Alto for like 2 minutes and he bought that print for I think 5000.
   26. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:39 PM (#5870747)
Well if you gotta be homeless, might as well be somewhere where the weather is decent year round.

The weather sure, but also the attitude here. You're not going to get hassled by the cops. You're not going to get told to move along from wherever your encampment is built.

I have a friend who lives over off of Portola, and there was a big (10+) tent city that sprung up near them. Shockingly, crime suddenly skyrocketed in the area, and so they called the cops to come clean things up. The police came and talked to the homeless, then took their buckets of human waste and emptied them, brought them back clean, along with food and clean clothing. Then they came and talked to the residents and told them the homeless said they'd stop breaking into everyone's cars, and so maybe everyone could just get along. And then they left, homeless encampment intact.

Not surprisingly, within a week it had tripled in size, as word spread that this was a safe haven. If they hadn't started a fire and essentially burned the whole thing down, it would probably still be there.

So yeah, if you're going to be homeless this is the place to do it. You have cop butlers, that's a pretty sweet deal.
   27. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:42 PM (#5870748)
But as insane as SF is about failing to deal with basic problems I need someone to explain some scenario where a reasonable person travels with a half million dollars worth of whatever.

Oh, there is none. I read a story a couple of years back about a stamp dealer who was driving back from a rare stamp show with millions of dollars worth of inventory in the trunk of his car. He and his wife stopped for dinner on the way home, and when he came out the trunk was popped and the stamps were gone. He assumed that someone had been tailing him since the show, hoping he would leave the car long enough for them to break in and take the stuff.

I had a set of golf clubs stolen out of my car once, and it felt terrible. I couldn't imagine how it would feel losing a big chunk of your store's net worth... but how dumb do you have to be to wander off and leave that unattended? Or maybe how trusting, or how naive to how the world is today?
   28. Brian C Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:51 PM (#5870752)
(Not saying that people should or shouldn't have voted for trump, but you're not going to find many places in the US that were more one-sided than San Francisco was. The far left knows it's got all the power here, and they happily wield it in all kinds of truly mind-boggling ways.)

My ward here in Chicago was 87/8 in favor of Clinton, but most of the southside wards were 95% or so Clinton. City as a whole was 84/12 Clinton as opposed to 84/9 for SF. NYC was pretty similar too, if you exclude Staten Island. Our big cities are overwhelmingly Democratic.

But still, I take your point. I'm awfully liberal myself, but we are given to some pretty heavy posturing. Chicago has not yet reached the point where we merrily keep excessive numbers of homeless around just to virtue signal about them, though. We just ignore them, like everyone else.
   29. Tin Angel Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:51 PM (#5870753)
You're not going to get told to move along from wherever your encampment is built.


Yeah but this does happen now. The ones on 19th near Harrison are pretty consistently cleared out. The ones under the freeway around 14th. They cleared out a bunch when the Super Bowl was in Santa Clara. At the same time they leave others, like on Capp St. I don't really get it.
   30. Brian C Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5870754)
I couldn't imagine how it would feel losing a big chunk of your store's net worth... but how dumb do you have to be to wander off and leave that unattended? Or maybe how trusting, or how naive to how the world is today?

Well, in fairness, you guys have a different perspective on this stuff. I myself have never had my trunk broken into in my whole life, and would probably assume stuff was safe in there without really even thinking about it.

On the other hand, I've never traveled with millions of dollars of stuff in there, either. But it's not like anyone else knew that.
   31. Master of the Horse Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:57 PM (#5870756)
30--Pretty well established in SF that there are thief rings that start out with scouts at the airport. Guy like A-rod who is easily recognized had to be scoped out five minutes after landing.
   32. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 08:59 PM (#5870757)
Yeah but this does happen now. The ones on 19th near Harrison are pretty consistently cleared out. The ones under the freeway around 14th. They cleared out a bunch when the Super Bowl was in Santa Clara. At the same time they leave others, like on Capp St. I don't really get it.

They have gotten better about it. They have come 3 or 4 times to try to re-establish a tent city in that place after the fire, and it's gotten cleared out quickly each time. But I know that my friend's neighbors (particularly one retired gent with nothing else to do) are adamant about stopping it and extremely vocal in complaining to the police, the mayor's office, the local news, and anyone else who will listen. So I think they're the proverbial squeaky wheel.

I assume that whether they stay/go largely depends on how much noise the neighbors make about it. If no one complains, then the cops aren't going to come just break it up on their own.

(Near my house - and yes, this makes me feel like an old man - it's skateboarders. 20 or 30 of them at a time, whizzing down the hill at all hours of the night. You'd be surprised at how much of a racket that 30 kids on skateboards can make when it's 1 AM and they're the only ones out there. And yes, I did complain to the cops and online, and was told that "kids will be kids" and that if this is the worst thing in my life then I need to check my privilege.)

   33. Brian C Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:01 PM (#5870758)
30--Pretty well established in SF that there are thief rings that start out with scouts at the airport. Guy like A-rod who is easily recognized had to be scoped out five minutes after landing.

I love how SF is basically a third-world country except that it's filled with wealthy people. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out in the next 20 years or so.
   34. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:03 PM (#5870759)
30--Pretty well established in SF that there are thief rings that start out with scouts at the airport. Guy like A-rod who is easily recognized had to be scoped out five minutes after landing.

And they really do go after rental cars. If his car had a Alamo or Avis or whatever sticker on it, it was almost guaranteed to get broken into. Thieves have learned that those cars will usually have the highest payout - it's out-of-towners who may be unaware of the local problem, and who may be en route to/from their hotel with all of their trip belongings in the car. Not to mention tourists usually travel with things like expensive cameras, lots of cash, etc.

When I have friends who come here to visit, it's the first thing I tell them - never leave anything in your car, even for a minute. Drive right from the airport to the hotel, remove everything while you're there, and leave it all in your room until it's time to go. I suspect it's only a matter of time before hotel room break-ins become the next big thing here.
   35. Master of the Horse Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:04 PM (#5870761)
33--Same BS in European countries. Crime can pay. Not just a third world problem. But SF needs to get its #### together absolutely
   36. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:06 PM (#5870763)
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out in the next 20 years or so.

I don't plan to be around to find out. I have to be here for work, but first chance that I can find something different to do I'm gone. I can't believe I've been here for 12 years. It is the quintessential great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live here. And it's rapidly not becoming a great place to visit, either.
   37. puck Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:06 PM (#5870765)
This thread has some crazy stuff in it.
   38. Ginger Nut Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:28 PM (#5870781)
I don't live in SF any more, but I was born there and went to high school there in the previous century. I remember as a teenager visiting Minneapolis and thinking in wonder, "wow, all cities don't have piles of trash blowing around the sidewalks?" However, although it's true that SF has more street garbage than most other American cities and also a large homeless population, these problems can be exaggerated in the stories that are told. It's true that in certain neighbourhoods you can come home to find people puking on your front steps and stuff like that. But that's not all that different from let's say New York in the 70s and 80s. When coming back to visit SF, I have parked rental cars in the city fairly regularly over the past two decades and never had a break in. Of course it happens, but do people really leave valuables in their cars in New York or Chicago? I'm pretty sure I've heard New Yorkers talk about leaving their cars unlocked and not being able to have car stereos etc for the same reason. These are big cities and there's property crime. To me, the worst things that have happened in SF since the 90s are the rise of the tech bro class and the accompanying real estate bubble and traffic nightmares. Deterioration of Muni and BART too, I guess. It's hard to get around and there are too many rich people driving up the cost of everything that used to be fun and accessible for the middle class. But I've gone out to dinner late at night with friends in the Mission and SOMA and not had anything bad happen--it doesn't feel any worse to me than any other big city. But maybe it's the contrast between the beautiful setting and the fairly typical urban problems that makes the problems seem more striking.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:35 PM (#5870786)
tons of cars get broken into all the time, that's a quality of life issue.

you can run the gamut of solutions from "lock 'em up if they look even a little scruffy or - well, not white enough" to "let's establish an extensive system for helping the down-and-out get back on their feet" and plenty in between. there are numerous ways across the spectrum to try to alleviate the issue, some of which are not cures worse than the disease.

but putting up "signs all over town, especially downtown, especially at night, telling you not to leave anything in your car" - that's just surrendering.

I can see making that a 12-month temporary Band-aid while changes are made. but from this thread, it almost sounds like there is a government acceptance of that awful status quo.

that's crazy.

...........

"I'm pretty sure I've heard New Yorkers talk about leaving their cars unlocked and not being able to have car stereos etc for the same reason."

this absolutely happened in the 1980s; I remember it. I had a friend who would post a sign on his window: "Sorry, I don't have a car stereo" in hopes that would entice the thief to move on quickly to the next car.

not sure if that's still true - although always better safe than sorry.
   40. Master of the Horse Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5870787)
38--Do other cities have to publish a human waste map because the incidents of people shitting in public continues to increase at a record pace?? Not saying..................but I'm saying
   41. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: August 12, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5870793)
A post above does remind me of the Hertz agent in St. Martin telling me to leave nothing in my car, and always, always leave it unlocked, even crack the windows open. I wasn't at my hotel more than 30 minutes, and I could see a dude looking through my car from out the hotel windows.

I travel to San Francisco annually for work mostly, to the financial district, and while I will still go out to places to eat, imbibe, it's just not as pleasant of an experience as it used to be. Portland and Seattle are feeling the same. SFO is also one of the cities I don't even think about renting a car, Boston, and DC are others, and usually NYC. I know my employer is also very anti-rent a car if at all possible, likely for similar reasons.
   42. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 12, 2019 at 10:59 PM (#5870809)
38--Do other cities have to publish a human waste map because the incidents of people shitting in public continues to increase at a record pace?? Not saying..................but I'm saying

I have gotten pretty good at being able to tell the difference between human poop and dog poop. There's a really bad selling Audobon guide for you - the Field Guide to Feces.

To me, the worst things that have happened in SF since the 90s are the rise of the tech bro class and the accompanying real estate bubble and traffic nightmares.

And no offense, but this is the attitude that contributes to our problems. The rise of the "tech bro class" - people who are demonized because they have well-paying jobs and don't buy into the whole mythology of Summer of Love SF as a city of unique specialness - is worse than the squalor, crime, and disrepair? I would take a thousand tech bros ordering $15 avocado toast at a Starbucks if it meant that the other problems would vanish.

And comparing it to NYC in the 70s and 80s is right... but they came in and cleaned that up. It got so bad that they had no choice. That's where we're heading, but the problem is that the entrenched power structure here has no interest in doing what NYC did to clean things up - zero tolerance policies for minor crimes (the "broken windows" theory) and increased police presence/arrest activity in the highest crime areas. Anyone proposing that wouldn't sniff public office in the Bay Area.

(I'm with you on the traffic problems. Traffic here stinks.)
   43. Zach Posted: August 12, 2019 at 11:38 PM (#5870817)
The city is a mess, and yes taxes are crazy high. But we're much more concerned about making sure that school murals get painted over so that children don't have to learn about history, than we are about improving the state of the city. We need a Giuliani-style late 1980s NYC style makeover at this point - come in and just brute force the place back into civility.

Yeah, and on top of all that it's really expensive.

At some point, something's got to give. You can't go on selling a subpar quality of life for super premium prices forever.

   44. Walt Davis Posted: August 12, 2019 at 11:52 PM (#5870819)
Both Cockscomb and Marlowe are just down the street and very good

Don't call Sam Spade thought -- he'll find your stolen loot but you'll find out the half-million dollar necklace is just paste.
   45. Lassus Posted: August 13, 2019 at 07:45 AM (#5870853)
This thread has some crazy stuff in it.

I lived in San Francisco for three years, and while I narrowly escaped drowning in a literal quicksand patch of diarrhea in the Tenderloin, the city is certainly full of inescapable apocryphal anecdotes.

EDIT: Before I get flamed, I'm sure there are many many bad problems - I'm not there any more. I'm just more in line with #38 than the rest of the thread.
   46. Ginger Nut Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:10 AM (#5870857)
I travel to San Francisco annually for work mostly, to the financial district, and while I will still go out to places to eat, imbibe, it's just not as pleasant of an experience as it used to be. Portland and Seattle are feeling the same.


A big problem confronting all three of those cities is a massive population influx and economic boom that they don't have the size or infrastructure to absorb and manage. SF itself is quite small--fewer than a million people and a land area of seven square miles. And yes, you can also blame some bad political decisions and lack of will/consensus to develop workable solutions. They should have started urgently building tons of housing in the 1990s, for example. But I was in Europe recently and this same thing seems to be happening to many cities there (like Berlin)--massive influx of wealth and consequent departure of the middle class, leaving cities polarized between the very privileged, homeless people many of whom have mental health/addicton problems, and young people who are willing to live several to an apartment and who are looking for an adventure. It doesn't leave much of a social center. I think this is actually a typical phenomenon of our current economic era, but which has simply hit SF in an especially visible way due to its proximity to Silicon Valley and its compact size.

And no offense, but this is the attitude that contributes to our problems. The rise of the "tech bro class" - people who are demonized because they have well-paying jobs and don't buy into the whole mythology of Summer of Love SF as a city of unique specialness - is worse than the squalor, crime, and disrepair? I would take a thousand tech bros ordering $15 avocado toast at a Starbucks if it meant that the other problems would vanish.


I guess I see what you mean, but to me the problem is hyper-wealth, too much money coming in too fast and completely distorting the society of an entire region (the whole Bay Area, not just SF itself). I now live in a mid-size city that people in SF would consider hopelessly boring. When I think about whether I would ever move back to the Bay Area, the first thing that pops up in my mind is no way, it's too expensive and I could never afford it. And it's not the average tech company workers who are causing this, but I guess they are the visible sign of the problem.

Do other cities have to publish a human waste map because the incidents of people shitting in public continues to increase at a record pace??


One interesting thing about those maps, at least the ones I have seen, is that the poop reports are heavily concentrated in certain areas, mostly along Market/Mission streets and in the Tenderloin and Western Addition. Of course the western half of the city is almost perfectly clean, and even the Haight near GG Park appears to have few poop sightings reported. I have been to the inner Sunset (around 7th and Irving etc) the Richmond, the Marina, Cow Hollow, not to mention the Sunset, (which is not all entirely boring), a few times in the past decade, and I have not witnessed any of this stuff going on there. I'm sure it happens sometimes, but to me those areas still look like pretty pleasant neighbourhoods, although of course they are so ridiculously expensive that few can afford them nowadays.
   47. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:26 AM (#5870861)
Wife an I made our first-ever trip out west last month. San Francisco is great, but it's the quintessential "nice place to visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there" town.

Still, we had a good day there, if you don't count the man literally eating garbage right in front of us at Ghirardelli's...

EDIT: Coke to Man o' Schwar.
   48. Ginger Nut Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:27 AM (#5870862)
And comparing it to NYC in the 70s and 80s is right... but they came in and cleaned that up. It got so bad that they had no choice. That's where we're heading, but the problem is that the entrenched power structure here has no interest in doing what NYC did to clean things up - zero tolerance policies for minor crimes (the "broken windows" theory) and increased police presence/arrest activity in the highest crime areas. Anyone proposing that wouldn't sniff public office in the Bay Area.


I've read some commentary to the effect that it was not primarily Giuliani's policing policies that reduced crime in NY but rather the decline of the crack epidemic. Giuliani's "success" did coincide with a decline in crime rates across most American cities. However, I have not read enough about it to have a strong sense of which is true.
   49. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM (#5870865)
just spitballing here - but maybe the police should crack down on this sort of thing?

seems like a wealthy city with what I suspect might be high tax rate could afford it (and if the rate isn't high, wouldn't it be worth it to do what it takes to fix this?).




There are too many homeless people in SF (also in LA and OC too) and there isn't a single reason why.


Wait, how did we go from street crime to complaining about homeless people? I'm assuming the homeless people aren't the ones cruising around in cars looking for stuff to steal [#15] or the ones that organize thievery rings at the airport [#31].
   50. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:39 AM (#5870866)
the decline of the crack epidemic

Crime peaked in this country in the early 90s, and has declined since. (It's basically back to where it was in the late 60s.)
   51. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:43 AM (#5870867)

I've read some commentary to the effect that it was not primarily Giuliani's policing policies that reduced crime in NY but rather the decline of the crack epidemic. Giuliani's "success" did coincide with a decline in crime rates across most American cities. However, I have not read enough about it to have a strong sense of which is true.


There's a strong argument that a decline in lead poisoning explains much of it.
   52. villageidiom Posted: August 13, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5870893)
I've never had anything stolen out of my car, nor has by car been broken into, nor has any such thing happened with someone else's car when I was a passenger.

OTOH, I've also never gotten out of a car after it's parked on the street, and then asked aloud, "Hey, is it OK if I leave {valuable item} in the car?" With no effort I can think of at least 3 people who have done that multiple times. I know someone whose purse was stolen out of her car trunk in NYC, only an hour after saying to her boyfriend outside her car "Wait, I don't want to carry my purse around, let me put it in the trunk so it's safe."
   53. villageidiom Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5870896)
Wait, how did we go from street crime to complaining about homeless people? I'm assuming the homeless people aren't the ones cruising around in cars looking for stuff to steal [#15] or the ones that organize thievery rings at the airport [#31].
I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm assuming we haven't gotten to the part yet where someone says they can tell when a homeless guy asking for money is just going to use it on drugs or booze, and in an amazing coincidence they've not yet encountered a homeless panhandler who didn't fit that profile.
   54. puck Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:18 AM (#5870903)
Pretty sure no one said that until you did.
   55. jmurph Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5870906)
Wait, how did we go from street crime to complaining about homeless people? I'm assuming the homeless people aren't the ones cruising around in cars looking for stuff to steal [#15] or the ones that organize thievery rings at the airport [#31].

This is only like the 3rd or 4th most ridiculous thing about this thread. Good lord people.
   56. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5870908)
I've read some commentary to the effect that it was not primarily Giuliani's policing policies that reduced crime in NY but rather the decline of the crack epidemic. Giuliani's "success" did coincide with a decline in crime rates across most American cities. However, I have not read enough about it to have a strong sense of which is true.

Both. Crime did fall across America, but NYC fell much more than average. NYC went from being one of the most dangerous large cities to the absolute safest. So, give the overall trend credit for a bunch of the absolute change, but give Giuliani/Bratton/Kelly credit for the relative change.
   57. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5870909)
There's a strong argument that a decline in lead poisoning explains much of it.

No, that argument is crap on a stick. Lead exposure rates increased gradually from ~1920 to 1960's, but crime spiked only in the 60's. That makes no sense.

The study is also plagued by methodological problems. He uses all sorts of lags on his variables, that lack any rational explanation. It's classic data fitting.

Basically lead was going up, and crime went up, so the study uses exactly the right lag on the lead variable to explain the increase. It's junk science.

Seriously to hypothesize that lead (which had been present for over 40 years) all of a sudden caused a huge spike in crime, rather than the massive societal changes that were happening at exactly the same time as the crime increase is wish casting.
   58. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5870915)
My ward here in Chicago was 87/8 in favor of Clinton, but most of the southside wards were 95% or so Clinton. City as a whole was 84/12 Clinton as opposed to 84/9 for SF. NYC was pretty similar too, if you exclude Staten Island. Our big cities are overwhelmingly Democratic.

But still, I take your point. I'm awfully liberal myself, but we are given to some pretty heavy posturing. Chicago has not yet reached the point where we merrily keep excessive numbers of homeless around just to virtue signal about them, though. We just ignore them, like everyone else


IDK... we'll see - I live on the edge of Uptown, just off Irving Park - and our alderman just barely won reelection by 25 votes. The single biggest issue near as I could tell was that he's been behind a lot of SROs shutting down. Said alderman - James Cappleman - was also behind one of those lighter side news stories (in addition to SROs, he's got a big problem with pigeons... and the city was funding a "pigeon napping" program).

Anyway, I used to - and still do fairly often - go to see shows at the Riv and the Aragon. 15 years ago - when I lived on the other side of Wrigley - this meant boarding the El at Belmont or Addison, and then keeping your hands in your pockets firmly wrapped around your phone and wallet as you passed the Sheridan, Wilson, and finally got off at Lawrence.

Now - while there are still ill-advised routes to take - I usually just walk and potentially stop on the way for dinner or a drink. It's a much nicer and rapidly gentrifying area.

So, on one level? The 'nuisance ordinances' - including/especially the ones used to shutter the SRO flophouses - have led to an upswing in the area.

On the other? Well.... if all you can afford is an SRO, what happens now? You'd be hard-pressed to find anything under four figures a month.

Not sure there's an easy answer, but for however little it's worth (not much, I'll grant) - I voted for his challenger... My general feeling is the gentrification momentum will be fine on its own, and at this point - I think I'd rather see TIFs and development grants steered toward the middle and lower income affordability angle rather than another Whole Foods or luxury condo development.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5870925)
As a fellow longtime Uptown resident (15 yrs), I second Zonk's analysis. It was a close call for me, but I ended up voting for Cappleman, because I remember the days of his predecessor, Helen Schiller, who actively wanted as many halfway houses, SROs, etc. etc. as possible in her ward. The progress Zonk describes over 15 years is Uptown digging itself out of a hole that she played a significant role in creating. I'll admit that the tipping factor for my vote was wanting to be able to sell my condo for the same price I paid back in 2004. I'm not trying to get rich off of gentrification, just looking for stability. I completely understand Zonk's position, though - there is indeed not an easy answer.
   60. Scott Lange Posted: August 13, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5870932)
Maybe there should be a special thread where people can swap made up stories about homeless people and roving gangs of progressive thugs and leave the rest of us in peace.
   61. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: August 13, 2019 at 11:10 AM (#5870935)
FTR - I wasn't particularly crestfallen that he won and I did struggle on my vote (before knowing that it would really be that close).

I'd also agree that Shiller miscalculation was essentially turning her ward into a northside poor refugee zone... that's just not going to be a longterm plan for success for anyone, including the people I do think she was earnestly trying to help. A better idea would have been to wrangle and horse trade to make more areas of the city affordable for lower income residents.
   62. nick swisher hygiene Posted: August 13, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5870945)
Snapper, FWIW, there are dozens of lead studies, different methodologies—a LOT of evidence.

There may be good arguments against it still, but yours are simply unresponsive to the history of research.

Here’s an overview.


https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/
   63. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: August 13, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5870951)
made up stories about homeless people and roving gangs of progressive thugs

As they say on Reddit, /r/nothingeverhappens.
   64. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5870955)
   65. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5870956)
Since SF and LA's homeless population explosion are national stories semi-regularly did not know folks were not aware and legit surprised people are going to say this is fake news/lies.

LA Homeless population surging
   66. Blastin Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5870957)
I remember after the 2016 election when people in MAGA hats or Trump shirts were being openly beaten in the city, to the cheers of onlooking crowds


Like so many things in this thread of whiteguysontheinternetcomplainingaboutthepoors, citation needed.

Maybe there should be a special thread where people can swap made up stories about homeless people and roving gangs of progressive thugs and leave the rest of us in peace.


Yeah... good riddance.
   67. jmurph Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5870958)
legit surprised people are going to say this is fake news/lies.

I don't think anyone was questioning that, Horse. It was the, uhhhhh, other stories.
   68. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5870960)
67--couldn't tell, sorry.
   69. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5870969)
Snapper, FWIW, there are dozens of lead studies, different methodologies—a LOT of evidence.

There may be good arguments against it still, but yours are simply unresponsive to the history of research.

Here’s an overview.


https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/
100 bucks says Snapper dismisses the research based only on the "Mother Jones" in the URL.
   70. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5870970)
Wait, how did we go from street crime to complaining about homeless people? I'm assuming the homeless people aren't the ones cruising around in cars looking for stuff to steal [#15] or the ones that organize thievery rings at the airport [#31].

There are about 10,000 homeless people in SF and around 20% of them are addicts. Those addicts are the majority of the petty theft issues in SF. The other stuff like airport thievery rings are more exciting, but they are not the cause of most of the crime. Also, the thievery rings are a much less complex problem to solve than homelessness so people will naturally focus more on that anyway.
   71. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: August 13, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5870971)
If the thief is Yuri Sucart then justice has been served.
   72. Baldrick Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5870979)
The city is a mess, and yes taxes are crazy high. But we're much more concerned about making sure that school murals get painted over so that children don't have to learn about history, than we are about improving the state of the city. We need a Giuliani-style late 1980s NYC style makeover at this point - come in and just brute force the place back into civility.

Haven't been a resident of SF in a couple years, but this is...not remotely accurate. The city does have unusually high rates of property crime, compared to other US cities. But in an absolute sense it's pretty low, and it's nowhere remotely close to the crime rates of the 1980s (which were not fixed by Giuliani BTW).

I'm sure that you hear about a lot of crime on Nextdoor - given that the whole purpose of Nextdoor is for paranoid people to fuel each other's paranoia about crime.

Which is to say: the couple folks here posting about the hellscape of SF do not remotely align with my experience of living in the city. It's a very pleasant city, and while there are obviously neighborhoods you'd generally like to avoid at 2 AM, it's pretty darn safe.
   73. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5870983)
Nextdoor is my lurking guilty pleasure. Love the arguments over fireworks at night, dog barking, claims of 'wolf sightings', etc. (obvious coyotes and foxes)in a state that hasn't seen a wolf since the 1800s. Great prism into the people in your hood.
   74. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5870989)
One interesting thing about those maps, at least the ones I have seen, is that the poop reports are heavily concentrated in certain areas, mostly along Market/Mission streets and in the Tenderloin and Western Addition. Of course the western half of the city is almost perfectly clean, and even the Haight near GG Park appears to have few poop sightings reported. I have been to the inner Sunset (around 7th and Irving etc) the Richmond, the Marina, Cow Hollow, not to mention the Sunset, (which is not all entirely boring), a few times in the past decade, and I have not witnessed any of this stuff going on there. I'm sure it happens sometimes, but to me those areas still look like pretty pleasant neighbourhoods, although of course they are so ridiculously expensive that few can afford them nowadays.

Yep, I think these problems are pretty neighborhood-specific. I was in SF for a week earlier this year and we parked a rental car on the street without any problems. Didn't leave anything in it but I wouldn't leave anything in my car in Manhattan either. I did see a guy accidentally hit another parked car on the street one morning -- he left a note on the windshield with what I presume was his contact information. To #46's point, we were staying in Cow Hollow, which I understand is one of the fancier neighborhoods in the city.

I guess my point is that there are some very nice, clean parts of SF. Maybe the rich, more conservative tech bros live in those places and therefore don't care as much about conditions in other neighborhoods. And we walked around a lot of the city while we were there -- while some neighborhoods were "grittier" than others I think some of the posts above might be overblown.

And the city overall is very safe. The violent crime rate is similar to such hellholes as Boston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Denver and St. Paul. It's higher than NYC but lower than Chicago, Houston, Philly, Atlanta, DC.
   75. RoyalFlush Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:31 PM (#5870994)
But as insane as SF is about failing to deal with basic problems I need someone to explain some scenario where a reasonable person travels with a half million dollars worth of whatever.


If he flew in that day and hadn't been to the hotel, I could see him having his jewelry in the car. Not the smartest move in the world, but a couple watches, a few gold chains and maybe a ring or two could add up to $500K pretty quick. It's probably insured, so as long as it's not a family heirloom, who cares? I'm sure $500K is not a huge fraction of the Rodriguez jewelry collection.
   76. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:46 PM (#5871000)
And the city overall is very safe. The violent crime rate is similar to such hellholes as Boston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Denver and St. Paul. It's higher than NYC but lower than Chicago, Houston, Philly, Atlanta, DC.


None of which (bolded), BTW, crack the top 20 so far as crime rates (Chicago and Houston check in around #25 or so). Granted, it can turn into a game where you draw the line between "City" and "city" and "burg".... but assuming one counts St Louis, Memphis, Little Rock, Kansas City, Indianapolis, etc as cities -- they all outrank the Phillies, Atlantas, DCs, Houstons, and Chicagos whether you want pure violent crime or crime period.

Expand the minimum populations further - and you can put places like Stockton, Anchorage, Rockford, Lansing, and Springfield (MO) ahead of them too.

Can't speak to SF - I've been there twice in the past 15 years and enjoyed myself thoroughly on both visits - but there's an awful lot myth when it comes to places that are "crime-ridden" and those that aren't.... Solely speaking for Chicago - yeah, we've most definitely got a murder problem and shooting problem.... but if one looks at the actual per capita rates - which is how such stuff should be measured - there's a good two dozen other cities people have heard of (and probably another two dozen most people haven't, if we drop the population floor further) that have it a lot worse.
   77. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5871003)
Not the smartest move in the world, but a couple watches, a few gold chains and maybe a ring or two could add up to $500K pretty quick.

True, but how many people travel with a couple of expensive watches, a few expensive gold chains and an expensive ring or two that they're not wearing when they go out to dinner?
   78. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5871008)
77--Good point. I know of women who travel extensively and carry a small selection of earrings and stuff for different events, nights out.
   79. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5871012)
Solely speaking for Chicago - yeah, we've most definitely got a murder problem and shooting problem.... but if one looks at the actual per capita rates - which is how such stuff should be measured - there's a good two dozen other cities people have heard of (and probably another two dozen most people haven't, if we drop the population floor further) that have it a lot worse.

The other thing about Chicago is that a lot of our violent crime is concentrated in a few areas, mainly sections (i.e., not the entirety) of the South and West sides. I know people - even lots of people who live here - have this image of Chicago as being basically one big Shaft movie but I've lived in Rogers Park for over a decade and never really had a serious problem. Most of the city is perfectly safe to walk around in, even at night. Frankly, even the dangerous sections aren't as dangerous as they're made out to be.
   80. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:02 PM (#5871019)
The other thing about Chicago is that a lot of our violent crime is concentrated in a few areas, mainly sections (i.e., not the entirety) of the South and West sides. I know people - even lots of people who live here - have this image of Chicago as being basically one big Shaft movie but I've lived in Rogers Park for over a decade and never really had a serious problem. Most of the city is perfectly safe to walk around in, even at night. Frankly, even the dangerous sections aren't as dangerous as they're made out to be.


Yeah - I lived in West Rogers Park before all the development around the Howard stop and it was gritty, to put it kindly, but it was hardly death-defying. I also very much remember the early days here as a transplant (yeesh, 20+ years ago now!) where my gaggle all thought you fell off the map if you went, say, west of Ashland or south of North Ave...

IAC - even the problematic neighborhoods aren't wholly problem - quite often, you're literally talking about a few blocks where you need to watch yourself and be alert.... and the south and west sides of the city have plenty to offer that requires nothing more than a few minutes to familiarize yourself.
   81. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5871021)
Per WorldAtlast Top Ten U.S. Cities with Highest Violent Crime Rates

1. St Louis
2. Detroit
3. Memphis
4. Milwaukee
5. Baltimore
6. Oakland
7. Kansas City, MO
8. Stockton
9. Cleveland
10. Indianapolis
   82. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:14 PM (#5871024)
   83. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:16 PM (#5871028)
FWIW no city is on both top ten lists.
   84. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5871045)
Upon further consideration, my post 69 was an unnecessary snark that I should have thought better of posting. I apologize to Snapper.
   85. RoyalFlush Posted: August 13, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5871052)
1. St Louis
2. Detroit
3. Memphis
4. Milwaukee
5. Baltimore
6. Oakland
7. Kansas City, MO
8. Stockton
9. Cleveland
10. Indianapolis


Missouri = winning.

True, but how many people travel with a couple of expensive watches, a few expensive gold chains and an expensive ring or two that they're not wearing when they go out to dinner?


I was thinking he hadn't been to the hotel yet. Flies in > rents car > goes to stadium/dinner > goes to hotel.
   86. Traderdave Posted: August 13, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5871059)
The distance from my house to the Oakland city limits is measured in yards, so I am well aware of crime in Oakland. That said, 2/3 of the city (and more if you strip out the industrial/rail/port acreage) is perfectly safe and comfortably livable. I'll hazard a guess that same/similar is true of at least couple of other cities on that list.
   87. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5871062)
The other thing about the A-Rod robbery is that if the reports are a "half million," the actual value was probably far less than that. There's a lot more incentive to estimate high than estimate low.

Yeah - I lived in West Rogers Park before all the development around the Howard stop and it was gritty, to put it kindly, but it was hardly death-defying. I also very much remember the early days here as a transplant (yeesh, 20+ years ago now!) where my gaggle all thought you fell off the map if you went, say, west of Ashland or south of North Ave...

When I first moved here, if I was riding up the Red Line from downtown, the train was virtually empty by the time we got to Morse and I would be one of the few people who got out there, even at peak times. Now, even later in the evening, I'm one of dozens who get off.

I'm also always struck by how many more people are out at the lake in the summer. Obviously there were always people, but now every weekend day is like what July 4 was back then. And I don't even think there's many more people in the neighborhood - I think that more people are coming in from outside Rogers Park to hang out here. Perceptions have changed.
   88. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5871065)
World Atlas Top Ten U.S. Cities with Highest Violent Crime Rates

This is good info, but it's also only violent crime, which is not really what anyone is talking about in regards to SF. It would be interesting to see if petty crime in SF really is higher/more widespread than other cities. Maybe later if I have time I'll try to look it up.
   89. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 04:34 PM (#5871073)
88--Seems like some were conflating different types of crime. Which is why I posted earlier an article on petty crime (post 64) Embedded in that article is another article that discusses property crime.
   90. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:21 PM (#5871091)
Yes, SF is #4 in the US in terms of property crime (looks like cities over ~200k in population). That's higher than I would have thought.
   91. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:32 PM (#5871098)

I was thinking he hadn't been to the hotel yet. Flies in > rents car > goes to stadium/dinner > goes to hotel.

Sure, but again, how many $100,000 watches/necklaces/rings do you travel with (especially if you know you're going to be leaving them in the rental car)? Maybe one to wear out? Maybe you bring more than one in order to match multiple outfits, but more than two? And even then -- especially then -- you'd likely put that stuff in your bag and bring it with you into the restaurant.
   92. Rally Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:34 PM (#5871099)
FWIW no city is on both top ten lists.


One list is per capita, the other absolute numbers. No surprise NY and LA are tops in number of homeless. A bit surprising that Chicago is not among the leaders, last I checked it was the 3rd biggest city.

True that Chicago is damn cold to be homeless in, I'd certainly be headed south if I were in that situation. But Boston's on the top 10 list, and is damn cold too.
   93. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:37 PM (#5871100)
Yes, SF is #4 in the US in terms of property crime (looks like cities over ~200k in population). That's higher than I would have thought.

And 2nd in larceny/theft! Sometimes perception actually does match up with reality.
   94. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5871102)
Yes, SF is #4 in the US in terms of property crime (looks like cities over ~200k in population). That's higher than I would have thought.

And 2nd in larceny/theft! Sometimes perception actually does match up with reality.


Interesting, SF is way down the list in the other property crime categories (burglary and auto theft).

Also, just looking at the "total violent crime" and "total property crime" lists seems less than ideal, because the totals treat, say, murder as equivalent to robbery, and robbery is much more common. I'd rather see a weighted total of some kind.
   95. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5871103)
A bit surprising that Chicago is not among the leaders, last I checked it was the 3rd biggest city.

True that Chicago is damn cold to be homeless in, I'd certainly be headed south if I were in that situation. But Boston's on the top 10 list, and is damn cold too.

I can't really vouch for this and have no thoughts on why it would be, but a number of local cops have told me that there are not very many actual homeless here in Chicago, and that most of the "homeless" on the street are basically professional panhandlers. Cops like to say all kinds of stuff, though, so it's hard to know what is and isn't true.

Still, it more or less holds up in the numbers - Chicago really does have a pretty low homeless rate.
   96. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 13, 2019 at 06:36 PM (#5871110)
Nextdoor is my lurking guilty pleasure. Love the arguments over fireworks at night

We had the Outside Lands music festival here last weekend, and Nextdoor was abuzz with noise complaints. And posts of "Does anyone hear music? I hear music.". Some suggested that everyone drive by and blare opera music out of their cars, as a kind of counter-protest I guess.

I was waiting for the "just be glad you can hear, imagine what a deaf person deals with" posts, but sadly they didn't come.
   97. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 13, 2019 at 06:49 PM (#5871112)
globally with Australia ranked the 13th safest nation and Sydney ranked the 5th safest city globally.


Woohoo, I win!

Then again internet speeds in Sydney are from like 2007 and trying to find good Mexican food here is impossible. But hey if you like beaches and want some of the best Thai food in the world, then this is your spot!

4. Milwaukee


That surprises me. I suppose I just always figured Milwaukee as kind of a big country town where everyone kind of got along. Shows how ignorant I am about the midwest. St Louis, Detroit, Oakland, Cleveland, etc have always had noted crime issues, but Milwaukee...huh, never would've guessed that. Stockton is the meth capital of the world so the crime there is just avoidable.
   98. Master of the Horse Posted: August 13, 2019 at 07:43 PM (#5871120)
   99. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 13, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5871128)

unnecessary snark
Oxymoron.
   100. . Posted: August 13, 2019 at 09:04 PM (#5871135)
I'm pretty left on the political spectrum but even I found much of the far left attitudes to be of such a militant nature that it was like it's own version of fascism.


As Victor Klemperer said any number of times in the 13 years of his Hitler-era diaries, it's kind of funny how the Nazis say over and over and over again how they're fighting Bolshevism and Bolshevism has to be fought ... when Nazism is essentially the same thing.

Similarly, when you see "Antifa" engaging in political street fights with "fascists," you're seeing the point where the political spectrum bows and warps back on itself.
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