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Sunday, May 27, 2012

Halladay leaves after two innings

Right Shoulder, ARMS! Order, ARMS!

The team announced in the fifth inning that he left as a precaution because of right shoulder soreness. He will be reevaluated in the next couple of days.

Halladay, 4-4 with a 3.58 ERA coming into the game, labored through the first inning, throwing 26 pitches and allowing his second grand slam of the month, placing the Phillies in a 4-0 hole. Yadier Molina hit the two-out grand slam after the Cardinals had loaded the bases on two singles and a walk to David Freese.

The grand slam came on a 92 m.p.h. fastball. Halladay returned in the second inning and retired the Cardinals in order on 10 pitches, but it was clear something was wrong when lefthander Joe Savery started warming in the bullpen as the Phillies hit in the top of the third inning.

Repoz Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:01 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: injury, phillies

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4141312)
Roy Halladay has looked pretty awful this season. The Nationals slapped him around something fierce as well in his previous start. Do I misremember, or were people whispering about how didn't look 100% during Spring Training?
   2. Shazbot Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4141320)
I'm still astounded at the ridiculous luck he's been having this season. He's had starts where sequencing kills him, i.e, everything comes in one lump, like against Atlanta, he's had starts with 10 strikeouts where all the hits fall in, he's had starts where he's been pulled in the seventh because he's given up two runs on scratch singles and a sac fly. He's also had a loss where his curveball didn't work right, and three homers were hit off it, and jack squat on anything else.

Now he has today. Groundout, single up middle, single up middle, groundout, walk, 0-2 tape measure grand slam on an ankle-high inside fastball.
   3. Shazbot Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4141324)
I mean, man, Kyle Kendrick tossed a 92 pitch shutout yesterday. Baseball is a funny game.
   4. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4141334)
He's pitching in a tougher league now.
   5. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4141353)
The team has finally completely fallen apart! Fire sale time!
   6. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4141355)
Yep, getting old sure sucks, as Philly is finding out.
   7. Lassus Posted: May 27, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4141360)
I can agree with Joey 100% on that one.

Allow me also to say that the upcoming Atlanta/Washington game has to be one of pure joy; I don't even care who wins because someone is going to lose.
   8. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: May 27, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4141375)
Allow me also to say that the upcoming Atlanta/Washington game has to be one of pure joy; I don't even care who wins because someone is going to lose.
Don't worry, that'll be Atlanta.
   9. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: May 27, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4141378)
Beachy has been pitching his rear end off and we haven't swept a series all year, so I'm not going to boldly predict the sweep.

I'll tell you this though: if we do end up sweeping a hot Braves team in Atlanta, even the most die-hard haters are going to start realizing that I'm right and we're a good team now.
   10. Lassus Posted: May 27, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4141380)
I guess I have a 51/49 preference for an Atlanta victory. Best not to let anyone get too far ahead. Even so.
   11. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: May 27, 2012 at 05:42 PM (#4141384)
Beachy has been pitching his rear end off and we haven't swept a series all year, so I'm not going to boldly predict the sweep.
Oh I know. I actually don't think we'll win tonight. I'm just blustering because, hey: this is pretty much the first time since 2005 where I, as either a Nats OR a Mariners fan, have been a position to be able to do so about my team.

And I think it's pretty clear to most everyone that we're a good team now. The awakening of our lineup (particularly LaRoche and the mysterious new-found power threat that is Ian Desmond) has managed to pick up the slack at the exact point when our rotation has faltered ever-so-slightly. Imagine what the hitting will look like when Morse and Werth return, too.

Biggest question mark right now is the bullpen, IMO. I would love to see Clippard settle into the role of our "full-time" TEMPORARY closer, but until Storen returns I'm pretty worried on a nightly basis, given Henry Gonzalez's transformation back into a pumpkin.
   12.     Hey Gurl Posted: May 27, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4141394)
[2], I remember the same stuff happening to him in 2009. In the summer it seemed like as soon as I got home and started watching it was "bloop single, bloop single, three-run homer." Baseball is funny.
   13. flournoy Posted: May 27, 2012 at 06:56 PM (#4141400)
if we do end up sweeping a hot Braves team in Atlanta


The Braves came into this series fresh off getting swept in a four game series by the Reds. I presume that by "hot," you meant, "ice cold."
   14. shoewizard Posted: May 27, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4141416)
I'll tell you this though: if we do end up sweeping a hot Braves team in Atlanta, even the most die-hard haters are going to start realizing that I'm right and we're a good team now.


You keep writing these kind of posts. I understand it's been tough following the team the last few years waiting for them to get good. Now that they are, you might want to consider learning to win graciously.
   15. shoewizard Posted: May 27, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4141423)
If Halladay's career were over today, (I know it's not) has he already done enough to be a Hall of Famer ?

I say yes. Black and Grey Ink already right about average for a HOF pitcher. He has the peak, and the signature moments. He's been the best in the game for a while now. Although with a shoulder injury perhaps slowing him down this year, his run as best in the game is probably over. That mantle probably passing to Kershaw now....but need at least to the end of this season to see if he can maintain it for a while.

   16. Dan Posted: May 27, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4141435)
Roy Halladay has looked pretty awful this season. The Nationals slapped him around something fierce as well in his previous start. Do I misremember, or were people whispering about how didn't look 100% during Spring Training?


Yes. There were people commenting about his lack of fastball velocity and asking him about it, suggesting his shoulder might have issues, and he blew up at them saying basically "velocity doesn't matter I'm fine."
   17. Shazbot Posted: May 27, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4141437)
To be fair, Dan, he's had velocity drop off in individual starts, as well as during starts, where he'll lose two, three MPH over the course of one start. I'm pretty sure that the issues would be with location and control.
   18. Bhaakon Posted: May 27, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4141442)
To be fair, Dan, he's had velocity drop off in individual starts, as well as during starts, where he'll lose two, three MPH over the course of one start. I'm pretty sure that the issues would be with location and control.


I don't see why the two would be unconnected. I'm not a major league pitcher, but I find it easier to throw accurately when I'm throwing easily than when I'm straining to add every MPH possible (as a pitcher having lackluster results after losing some velocity off his fastball might be inclined to do).
   19. Lassus Posted: May 27, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4141475)
The NL East is currently the only division in baseball where every team is above .500.
   20. ColonelTom Posted: May 27, 2012 at 10:33 PM (#4141484)
There's a silver lining here for the Phils - they could give Tyler Cloyd (4-1, 2.15 in AAA after starting 3-0, 1.80 in AA) a chance at the bigs, which might give them an idea whether there's help on the way if Hamels departs. Trevor May (5-2, 4.10 in AA) probably isn't ready yet but could be another option. I fear they'll call up Dave Bush or Scott Elarton, though.
   21. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 27, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4141498)
There's a silver lining here for the Phils - they could give Tyler Cloyd (4-1, 2.15 in AAA after starting 3-0, 1.80 in AA) a chance at the bigs


If only they had a catcher named Gidney.
   22.     Hey Gurl Posted: May 27, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4141510)
His velocity has dropped somewhat throughout his career. In the 2003 season he would hit 96 on occasion; he had shoulder soreness in 2004 and over the years his fastball slowed down a bit; it was a bit of a thing in 2007 especially as he put up rather poor numbers (for him.) A lot of talk was about how his velocity was down and Doc's response was much the same. Anyway, he adjusted. I doubt he's hit 96 as a Phillie.
   23. boteman Posted: May 28, 2012 at 12:19 AM (#4141523)
but it was clear something was wrong when lefthander Joe Savery started warming in the bullpen as the Phillies hit in the top of the third inning.

If only they had a catcher named Gidney.

If only the Phillies called Rick Sweet out of retirement for the Sweet/Savery battery.
   24. zachtoma Posted: May 28, 2012 at 05:11 AM (#4141555)
His velocity has dropped somewhat throughout his career. In the 2003 season he would hit 96 on occasion; he had shoulder soreness in 2004 and over the years his fastball slowed down a bit; it was a bit of a thing in 2007 especially as he put up rather poor numbers (for him.) A lot of talk was about how his velocity was down and Doc's response was much the same. Anyway, he adjusted. I doubt he's hit 96 as a Phillie.


This seems to be a theme this year; I thought it was generally understood that pitchers lose fastball velocity as they age.
   25. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 28, 2012 at 07:21 AM (#4141564)
Shouldn't Gidney have caught Steve Stone?
   26. formerly dp Posted: May 28, 2012 at 09:12 AM (#4141574)
Don't all of these pronouncements seem a bit premature? Unless I'm missing something, his h/9, HR/9, and k/9 are all pretty close to being in line with his career rates. If he is dealing with a shoulder issue, maybe some down time will be the key. But it isn't like we're seeing him implode out there. Doc's a smart pitcher and capable of making adjustments.
   27. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: May 28, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4141580)
Halladay's velocity appears to be ever-so-slightly diminished this year, however, I don't think it's really enough to be significant or worrisome.
   28. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: May 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4141612)
If Halladay's career were over today, (I know it's not) has he already done enough to be a Hall of Famer ?

I say yes. Black and Grey Ink already right about average for a HOF pitcher. He has the peak, and the signature moments. He's been the best in the game for a while now. Although with a shoulder injury perhaps slowing him down this year, his run as best in the game is probably over. That mantle probably passing to Kershaw now....but need at least to the end of this season to see if he can maintain it for a while.



Halladay's been in "hit by a bus" territory since the end of the 2010 season. Killer peak, long prime. His career stats are a bit light for the inner circle, but he passes every test imaginable. During his full season 02-'11 prime, Halladay went 170-75, 2.97 in 2194 2/3's innings. A total horse, he led the league in CG 7 times including 5 in a row. 2 CY, a no-no in the 2010 playoffs, a perfect game, 8x AS. Halladay's an easy HOF'r, if this is unfortunately it.

WRT the best pitcher in the game, I think Halladay has been passed in the past year or so, but it's Justin Verlander who is now king of the hill.
   29. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: May 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4141617)
Yeah, Halladay could drop out of baseball tomorrow and he'd be an easy Hall of Famer. A first balloter too at this point, IMO, though you never know with sportswriters. Hope it's not over for him yet, but as Joey B. pointed out, it wouldn't be the first time a seemingly deathless workhorse suddenly 'got old'. (For a recent example, see: Ichiro last year.)
   30. boteman Posted: May 28, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4141623)
but it's Justin Verlander who is now king of the hill.

Agreed. Even the mighty mighty Stephen Strasburg recently looks vincible.
   31. Gaelan Posted: May 28, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4141640)
If Halladay's career were over today, (I know it's not) has he already done enough to be a Hall of Famer ?


Is this even a discussion? He's the best pitcher of his generation.
   32. shoewizard Posted: May 28, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4141914)
Yeah, but he doesn't even have 200 Wins ! I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Yeah, you guys are right...Verlander over Kershaw....for now. Surprised Kershaw's K rate is down so much this year.
   33. Snowboy Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4141962)
When was the last time Doc left before pitching five innings?
Was it when he got hit by a batted ball, and broke his leg?
How many times, since 2001 (when he went all the way down to A-ball to start over), has he not pitched at least five innings in a start?
Pulled after two, this must be significant.
   34. bobm Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:05 AM (#4141964)
[33] Halladay starts < 5 IP since 2001:
                                                       
Date          Tm Opp    Rslt  AppDec  IP  H R ER BB SO HR Pit Str GSc
2006-09-10   TOR LAA  L  3-4    GS-1 0.2  2 0  0  0  0  0  16  10  48
2012-05-27   PHI STL  L  3-8 GS-2  L 2.0  4 4  4  1  0  1  36  23  31
2005-07-08   TOR TEX  L  6-7    GS-3 2.2  6 3  2  0  4  2  48  36  40
2009-06-12   TOR FLA  L  3-7    GS-3 3.0  5 1  1  0  0  0  41  29  45
2004-09-27   TOR BAL  W  4-1    GS-3 3.0  4 1  1  2  2  1  70  44  47
2003-08-17   TOR OAK  L  3-7 GS-3  L 3.0 10 7  5  1  3  0  72  47  17
2007-06-05   TOR TBD W 12-11    GS-4 3.1 12 8  7  1  1  2  77  48   6
2006-09-20   TOR NYY  W  3-2    GS-4 3.1  3 1  1  1  1  0  42  28  50
2011-07-18   PHI CHC  L  1-6 GS-5  L 4.0  7 3  3  1  1  1  67  49  36
2004-09-21   TOR NYY  L  3-5 GS-4  L 4.0  4 3  3  1  2  2  59  36  43
2004-07-16   TOR TEX L  2-11 GS-4  L 4.0  7 6  6  3  2  1  70  45  23
2001-09-08   TOR DET  L  3-4 GS-4  L 4.0  4 1  1  0  3  0  63  42  53
2002-04-25   TOR TEX L  9-11    GS-5 4.1  7 8  7  2  2  1  72  52  19
2001-07-21   TOR NYY  W  5-3    GS-5 4.2  5 3  3  4  8  0  92  58  46


   35. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:06 AM (#4141965)
Here's the list, devoid of most context because it's too hot and too late, plus I really don't want to speculate on the possibilities of Doc being seriously injured. There might be something missing, but I just went into his b-r logs and sorted by least innings, then checked to make sure it wasn't a relief appearance. But again, late, hot, accuracy isn't guaranteed.

July 18th 2011 vs the Cubs (heat exhaustion)

July 12 2009 vs Marlins

July 5 2007 vs Tampa

September 10 (LAA) and 20th (Yankees), 2006

July 8, 2005 vs Texas (Kevin ####### Mench)

July 16, September 21, September 27, 2004 (he got DLed twice that year for shoulder problems)

August 17, 2003

April 25, 2002

July 21 and September 8, 2001

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