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Friday, December 21, 2007

Hamilton dealt from Reds to Rangers

The Rangers and Reds agreed on a trade Friday that will send outfielder Josh Hamilton to Texas in exchange for right-hander Edison Volquez and a Minor League pitcher.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:31 PM | 74 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers, reds

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   1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2651881)
Wow. Unless the second pitcher's someone pretty hot, I think Texas got the better half of that (although I can certainly see why the Reds would want more pitching).
   2. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:36 PM (#2651884)
Whoa, now there's a trade that we don't know enough about the circumstances to judge.
   3. Swedish Chef Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2651888)
pass
   4. St.Philly Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2651891)
How did Bowden miss out on this one?
   5. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2651892)
Whoa, now there's a trade that we don't know enough about the circumstances to judge.
Absolutely.
Maybe the Reds thought Hamilton caught lightning in a bottle, and his trade value was at its highest.
As for Volquez, on the surface I love his minor league K/9 (8.82) and HR/9 (0.87).
   6. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:44 PM (#2651893)
BTW, Volquez's first name is Edinson, not as in Thomas Alva.
   7. 44magnum Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:49 PM (#2651897)
If Hamilton can stay reasonably healthy, I have no doubt he'll hit 30 hrs a year. Most all of his 18 hrs last year were towering line drives to the deepest part of LCF. What he did at the plate last season was plain amazing. Anyway, I'm trying not to get to upset about this deal. Would've rather used Hamilton to get someone more established like Haren or Bedard.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 21, 2007 at 11:59 PM (#2651903)
Is Edinson Turkish for Edison?
   9. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:00 AM (#2651905)
44, in our big trade last season, at the last moment I nearly asked you if I could swap out Dunn with Hamilton.
   10. JJ1986 Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:13 AM (#2651914)
I imagine this went through because Dusty told the team that he was going to start Ryan Freel in center field even if Hamilton were on the roster.
   11. Honkie Kong Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:14 AM (#2651915)
This looks like a steal for the Rangers. Volquez has had problems with control for quite a while now, and has had attitude issues in the past.
Why would the Reds make this trade unless they are sloshed on some spiked eggnog? The only possibility is that they know something about his injury history, and think he is not going to be a full time player.
   12. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:18 AM (#2651916)
The only possibility is that they know something about his injury history, and think he is not going to be a full time player.


His injury history isn't the one you have to worry about. If I were the Rangers I'd feel pretty nervous about the Reds dealing him for Volquez. Maybe it's just a bad trade on the part of Krivsky, and I love it for Texas if Hamilton doesn't self-destruct. This looks like a "move him now while the moving is good" deal to me. Almost panicky.
   13. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:19 AM (#2651917)
I was thinking the same thing. Not that he doesn't come with question marks, but Hamilton will instantly be the best outfielder in the Ranger organization, while nobody knows if Volquez will ever learn to throw strikes consistently. If Volquez just needs a change of scenery and new voices, this'll work out nicely for the Reds as well, but either way the Rangers look like they've done themselves fairly well on this one.
   14. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:34 AM (#2651924)
Good deal for Texas. Hamilton has tremendous potential.
   15. Brian White Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:44 AM (#2651929)
Danny Ray Herrera is the second pitcher going from TEX to CIN, according to ESPN. 23 years old, lefty, was a reliever in AA last year with decent peripherals.
   16. Honkie Kong Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:48 AM (#2651930)
This is a gamble I would have loved the Braves to take. Ofcourse, whenever a decent trade goes down, thats a typical fanboy reaction.
   17. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:51 AM (#2651933)
I remember Herrera from back in the day. He's like 5-4 and throws in the mid-80s with control and some good breaking stuff, IIRC. Fun player. Hardly going to make this deal look any less terrible for Cincinnati, though.
   18. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:53 AM (#2651934)
Baseball Cube says Herrera is only 5-8 and 145lbs.
   19. OCD SS Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:56 AM (#2651935)
This trade gives Jay Bruce a starting job. This looks good for both teams (I'm assuming that the 2nd pitcher is a pretty good prospect); the Reds get young pitching who might eventually keep them from signing another Eric Milton and the Rangers get a CFer for a few years.

It's still a damn good return on $50K...
   20. TheBoneMan Posted: December 22, 2007 at 12:58 AM (#2651936)
I imagine this went through because Dusty told the team that he was going to start Ryan Freel in center field even if Hamilton were on the roster.


Don't forget Norris Hopper! He's an up-and-coming young player! (The fact that he is 30 years old and has no power or patience notwithstanding)
   21. TheBoneMan Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:01 AM (#2651937)
This trade gives Jay Bruce a starting job.


Where does he play? Are they really brave/stupid enough to go with an outfield of Dunn/Bruce/Griffey? Or, even worse, Dunn/Griffey/Bruce? Wouldn't that be the worst defensive outfield in the history of the planet?
   22. Replacement-Level Primate Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:03 AM (#2651940)
There were no old favorites from the Twins organization that Krivsky would have rather had? Hamilton would have looked mighty nice in centerfield at the Metrodome.
   23. a bebop a rebop Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:04 AM (#2651941)
Herrera is a prospect but only barely. From what I understand, the most optimistic projection for him is old Jesse Orosco.

I love this trade for the Rangers, by the way.
   24. Josh Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:07 AM (#2651944)
Danny Ray Herrera is the best player in this deal. [/Hairps]
   25. 100 Years is Nothing Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:08 AM (#2651945)
I wonder how close the Reds are to his AA sponsor. Sure sounds like a "safety first" type trade, although Volquez does have some potential. However, if hamilton's safety blanket of parents, etc. won't be around this season, I sure could anticipate a relapse, as much as I would hate to see that.
   26. Urban Faber Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2651959)
Surprising. Hope all is well with Hamilton.
   27. Spahn Insane Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2651961)
I imagine this went through because Dusty told the team that he was going to start Ryan Freel in center field even if Hamilton were on the roster.

So Krivsky's even more spineless than Hendry was (as spineless, anyway) in the face of Dusty's attempts to shape the roster to his liking (and seems to lack Hendry's positives). Awesome. Neifi Perez will be a Red within a week after his suspension ends.
   28. lincarnate Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2651962)
This is a great deal for the Rangers. Volquez is the classic Rangers pitching prospect: lots of potential, great success at the lower levels of the minors and consequently loses it all at the higher levels. Herrera is a AA reliever. Hamilton has the potential to be the center fielder that the Rangers have been trying to find for the past 15 years. This almost makes up for the Adam Eaton trade.

Well, not really, but it's a step in the right direction.
   29. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:31 AM (#2651965)
Surprising. Hope all is well with Hamilton.

Urban is right that this could indicate a loss of confidence in Hamilton by the Reds. Which shouldn't be ignored as a factor.
   30. billyshears Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:40 AM (#2651975)
I still think this is a bad deal for the Reds, but this might be more of a beauty is in the eye of the beholder type thing. Volquez is reported to have outstanding stuff. It wouldn't surprise me if a scouty organization like the Reds was in love with him.
   31. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:55 AM (#2651982)
I'm not nearly as high on Hamilton as most on this board are. He's had 298 at bats in the big leagues, after a mediocre minor league career (obviously due to outside circumstances). He wasn't even healthy all last year. He has red flags in his past.

I know there's no such thing as a pitching prospect, but pitching is the currency of baseball, and Volquez has #2 starter potential and is MLB ready. I know I'm in a very small minority, but I'd rather have Volquez to be honest.
   32. SABRJoe Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:56 AM (#2651984)
So much for the ballyhooed "DVD" future Rangers rotation (Danks-Volquez-Diamond).
   33. Rich Rifkin I Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:00 AM (#2651986)
Is Edinson Turkish for Edison?

Nope. It's Polish for illiterate.
   34. rr Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:04 AM (#2651988)
I know I'm in a very small minority, but I'd rather have Volquez to be honest.


I agree, albeit a little sadly. The Reds need to improve their run prevention, have Bruce on the way, and have had done jackshit developing pitchers. Like everyone else, I hope Hamilton is OK and has not relapsed.
   35. Frisco Cali Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:04 AM (#2651989)
So much for DVD.
   36. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:06 AM (#2651990)
I'm not a Josh Hamilton believer at all, and even though I almost never go along with Krivsky's moves, I think he was wise to cash Hamilton in right now. I'd put the probability at 80% that we just saw Hamilton's career year.
   37. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:07 AM (#2651992)
Neifi Perez will be a Red within a week after his suspension ends.

Being 100% honest, retro, I've pretty much assumed this will inevitably happen from the moment the Reds hired Baker.
   38. Posada Posse Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:44 AM (#2652002)
Hamilton was out for almost a month last season with a gastrointestinal disorder. I read an interview with him afterwards in which he mentioned that he felt that his previous drug use had somewhat weakened his immune system (or something along those lines) and probably resulted in the disorder. I wonder if the Reds were concerned about that and his ability to play for a full season. Good luck to Josh in Texas, he seems like a genuine good guy and hopefully everything is ok with him.
   39. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2652006)
Yes, Josh Hamilton is a much better person than Barry Bonds, because whereas that louse Bonds thought he helped his team by taking drugs (if he took them and/or thought he took them) that may or may not have improved his performance, Hamilton crippled the franchise that spend its number one pick on him by taking drugs that definitely harmed his performance.
   40. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:56 AM (#2652009)
But Hamilton is born again, so it's OK.
   41. SABRJoe Posted: December 22, 2007 at 02:59 AM (#2652010)
Here's a great primer on Danny Ray Herrera, via Kent Bonham DHing at Baseball Analysts.
   42. AROM Posted: December 22, 2007 at 03:10 AM (#2652014)
He's had 298 at bats in the big leagues, after a mediocre minor league career (obviously due to outside circumstances). He wasn't even healthy all last year. He has red flags in his past.


Pretty much all of that minor league record is 4+ years in the past. I don't think it means anything. I wonder if the Reds are worried he's going to fall off the wagon now that he's got some income. Its that or serious injury concerns, maybe something that would prevent him from playing to his potential like Austin Kearns.

Seems like a crazy trade though, because Hamilton sure looks like a legit player and the Reds would have him for 5 more years.

Where does he play? Are they really brave/stupid enough to go with an outfield of Dunn/Bruce/Griffey? Or, even worse, Dunn/Griffey/Bruce? Wouldn't that be the worst defensive outfield in the history of the planet?


Is Bruce supposed to be a bad defender? One way or another the Reds will once again play Dunn and Griffey. Is Bruce brutal as well or is it just that Griffey/Dunn/X would automatically be one of the worst outfield defenses?
   43. Kyle S Posted: December 22, 2007 at 03:21 AM (#2652018)
Maybe the Reds thought Hamilton caught lightning in a bottle, and his trade value was at its highest.

Maybe they think Hamilton had something else in a bottle.

In all seriousness, I wish Hamilton all the success in the world and will root for him until the end of his career. I really, really, really hope that this is decision is based on the talent of both respective players and nothing else.
   44. Darren Posted: December 22, 2007 at 03:42 AM (#2652028)
Danny Ray Herrera is the best player in this deal. [/Hairps]


This is the first thing that I thought of too. I'm sure rooting for him. All he does is get good results. Just to clarify this for others, Hairps is a really bright guy who posts on SOSH. He did a study about the 2006 draft and concluded that Herrera had been the best performing college pitcher in 2006. It seems amazing that a guy who performed that well ended up going in the 45th round. What would be the harm of taking him in the 24th or so?
   45. Pokey Reese's Pieces Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2652041)
But Hamilton is born again, so it's OK.


Sure he is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKplqfDcURc
   46. Rich Rifkin I Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:17 AM (#2652043)
#40. The Bodley article doesn't explicitly say Hamilton is "born again." However, the implication is there:
Hamilton says he flicked the switch off Oct. 6, 2005. It was the last time he used cocaine and alcohol. How difficult will it be to keep the switch turned off? "If I rely on my relationship with God, anything is possible," he says. "Plus, I have an excellent support group."
My own take -- as a person who finds most religious faith to be silliness or worse -- is that those who trade an addiction to the bottle for an addiction to the Jesus Bible are making a good trade-off. Yes, most born-agains are obnoxious bores. But that irritation pales next to the danger and self-destruction of alcoholism and drug addiction.

I have read that church-offered drug and alcohol rehab programs are far more successful in the long run than most other rehab programs. If that is true, I assume it is because religion for the born-agains is simply a much more benign drug. They can still be addicts; they just have to smoke Jesus, not crack. By contrast, the Betty Ford-type places, perhaps don't offer a salubrious altnerative drug. So eventually, the addicts they see often end up climbing back into the drug hole.
   47. Spahn Insane Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:18 AM (#2652044)
Neifi Perez will be a Red within a week after his suspension ends.

Being 100% honest, retro, I've pretty much assumed this will inevitably happen from the moment the Reds hired Baker.


What--you think I was being facetious?
   48. Spahn Insane Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:21 AM (#2652046)
I still think this is a bad deal for the Reds, but this might be more of a beauty is in the eye of the beholder type thing. Volquez is reported to have outstanding stuff. It wouldn't surprise me if a scouty organization like the Reds was in love with him.

Well, then again, not everybody has Jay Bruce ready to step into an outfield slot. But if they traded Hamilton for the wrong reasons (i.e., Baker's early-onset mancrush on Ryan Freel), it bodes ill for the franchise regardless of how this particular deal pans out.
   49. Spahn Insane Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:25 AM (#2652050)
And, yeah--if they don't use Freel in center now, that does sound like some kind of ugly OF defense, unless Bruce can pick it out there. Hell, it's some kind of ugly anyway. Griffey and Dunn should both be DHs. As a Cub fan who, if nothing else, will get to watch a defensive OF of Soriano/Pie/Fukudome, I can just sit here and smile.
   50. TheBoneMan Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:26 AM (#2652051)
Is Bruce supposed to be a bad defender? One way or another the Reds will once again play Dunn and Griffey.


The general consensus (at least from what I've read) is that Bruce will be a solid defender in RF, but has no business playing CF in the majors. Obviously Dunn and Griffey are the big problems in that OF, but putting a guy like Bruce in CF would really compound the problem. And if Bruce plays RF, then you are left with Griffey limping around in CF (which would be an absolute Gong Show at this point). There is just no way to take two terrible LF's (Dunn and Griffey) and one solid RF (Bruce) and put together a halfway decent OF.
   51. jyjjy Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:40 AM (#2652055)
They can still be addicts; they just have to smoke Jesus, not crack.

I know a guy you can score some killer Jesus from if your interested.
   52. Spahn Insane Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:41 AM (#2652057)
I scored some Jesus cut with Mephisto once. That was a trip.
   53. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:46 AM (#2652058)
It seems amazing that a guy who performed that well ended up going in the 45th round. What would be the harm of taking him in the 24th or so?
It was thought that he'd go back to school - there were even reports, IIRC, that he wasn't planning on signing with Texas, despite it being the team he rooted for as a kid. Plus there's the whole velocity thing, of course.
I'd pay decent money to see Danny Ray's pitch fx data - he's such an outlier. Supposedly, his fastball now tops out at 82. He'll sometimes post FB/CU differentials of 20-25 MPH. BA once conjectured that he might be the smallest pitcher ever drafted (again, relying on memory here). Despite all this, he gets loads of grounders and k's - how long can this last?
***
I like Hairps too - thought he posted here periodically.
   54. Walt Davis Posted: December 22, 2007 at 07:43 AM (#2652087)
1. It may not be the "born again" thing. "God" (or his/her/its/their equivalent) is a standard part of most 12-step programs ... and obviously Hamilton's been through a few of those.

2. That said, couldn't the Rockies match this offer (if Hamilton is a good defensive CF) and isn't there a decent chance that sort of support system would do Hamilton a lot of good.

3. Surely this presages a Reds trade for Juan Pierre. (ducks)
   55. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: December 22, 2007 at 07:53 AM (#2652089)
Yes, most born-agains are obnoxious bores.


That's stereotyping and really, really unfair. I've known a shitload of obnoxious bores and many (if not most) of them weren't Christians.

I assume it is because religion for the born-agains is simply a much more benign drug. They can still be addicts; they just have to smoke Jesus, not crack.


In addition to being a gross oversimplification, that is also very condescending and insulting.
   56. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 22, 2007 at 11:02 AM (#2652103)
I’m just throwing this out there: Atheists are ####### annoying. It’s like they constantly need to be patted on the back. Congrats dude, you don’t believe in a higher power. In between your daily posts at “The Atheists’ Blog”, proclaiming your intellectual superiority against wacky people seeking something to believe in, try not being such a condescending douche. Thanks.
   57. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 22, 2007 at 11:44 AM (#2652104)
I "believe" in all kinds of stuff, just not some big man in the sky, and I'm moral and good because I want to be, not because I'm afraid to go to hell. Deal with it, dude.

This idea that Christians are some kind of put-upon group is one of the most outrageous in history. Just shut the #### up.

And if so many Christians weren't trying to impede scientific research and progress, I'd ignore them instead of being mad at them. As it is, I'm only mad at the ones who are trying to impede science. I don't give damn about the rest of them; they can fritter away their lives thinking they'd better not do all kinds of fun things if they want to.
   58. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: December 22, 2007 at 11:51 AM (#2652105)
Well, thank you #57 for making #56's point.
   59. bookbook Posted: December 22, 2007 at 01:47 PM (#2652107)
Stereotyping Athiests makes as little sense as stereotyping Christians.

My main problem with my religious friends and associates is the frequently-stated assertion that morality isn't possible without God. That makes no sense to me.

The desire for and benefits (individual and community) of belief in a higher power does make sense to me. If only that were enough to make one exist, the world might just be a better place.

(Though any reading of history and/or current events can point out drawbacks to religious fervor as well)
   60. OCD SS Posted: December 22, 2007 at 03:10 PM (#2652121)
The general consensus (at least from what I've read) is that Bruce will be a solid defender in RF, but has no business playing CF in the majors. Obviously Dunn and Griffey are the big problems in that OF, but putting a guy like Bruce in CF would really compound the problem.


From what I've read, Bruce is expected to be OK in CF while he's young, and when he fills out he'll have to move to RF where he's expected to be pretty good. The issue is probably his routes (which need to improve).

Both Griffey and Dunn could be gone after '08, so that would push me into the "Reds selling high" camp. The could've sported a Griffey or Dunn/Hamilton/Bruce OF in '09. But it's still a heck of a return on $50K.
   61. metranil Posted: December 22, 2007 at 03:21 PM (#2652123)
Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE® Ball said:


"That's stereotyping and really, really unfair. I've known a shitload of obnoxious bores and many (if not most) of them weren't Christians."

Hmmm, America is at least 80% Christian, so I'm wagering that most, if not all, of the obnoxious bores you've encountered ARE Christian...

"In addition to being a gross oversimplification, that is also very condescending and insulting."

I thought it was funny...to each his own...

As for the trade, it seems Hamilton's projections are based on a small sample size, so let's hope the Reds got some good hurlers for a guy who's already peaked...
   62. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 22, 2007 at 04:12 PM (#2652133)
Is Edinson Turkish for Edison?

Nope. It's Polish for illiterate.


I'm not sure what this means. My question was based on this website:

http://forum.kanka.net/archive/index.php/t-193747.html
   63. Toolsy McClutch Posted: December 22, 2007 at 05:05 PM (#2652149)
I'd make the point that because someone was "born" "Christian", doesn't mean they are. Or that they practice it.
   64. wcw Posted: December 22, 2007 at 06:53 PM (#2652192)
The US is only 80% anything if you ignore the quarter of the country that doesn't have any religion, in the sense that faithful adherents understand it, anyhow.

Me, I like baseball, not mocking religions, and I love this trade for the Rangers. Volquez may throw real hard, but his walk rates are a giant, flashing red light.
   65. Itch Posted: December 22, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2652270)
I'll take Hamilton over Volquez. I am sad that my Twins didn't nab him.
Maybe he is an injury risk, and his downside is to become the Steve Howe of his generation, but his upside is as a gold-glove rightfielder with an all-star bat.
There's a reason he was drafted #1 ahead of Josh Beckett - his tools are among the best in baseball. How else could he successfully go from A-ball to the majors in one season? Volquez is a good prospect, but I would still rather have the potential 40-homer guy, risk and all.

I also agree with wcw, and I won't tell you what to believe if you don't tell me what to believe (about religion, anyway).
   66. Pokey Reese's Pieces Posted: December 23, 2007 at 12:04 AM (#2652414)
Living in Cincy and being a Reds' fan, I'd have to guess the Reds believe Hamilton's chances for a relapse are pretty high...especially considering the fact that his team "babysitter" last season was Jerry Narron's brother Johnny.

As far as the religion thing is concerned, I've been treated to several local interviews of Josh and his wife Katie thumping that Bible pretty hard (figuratively speaking, of course). Indeed, he seemed a bit overzealous regarding his love for Christ. Seemed as if he had simply traded one drug for another (as discussed by Rich above).

Which is why I posted the youtube link in #45. I mean, if he can so quickly forget about the woman who stayed with him through all his troubles...and his two daughters....in order to hit on a 14 year old girl...it suggests a personality that still has some serious maturity issues, no matter how much he talks about God and all that stuff.
   67. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 23, 2007 at 12:39 AM (#2652421)
Anyone who thinks Dusty Baker is going to plop Bruce in the lineup sight unseen is daft.

Anyone who thinks Ryan Freel can last 130 odd games in CF playing that reckless style is doubly daft.

So now the Reds are guaranteed a ridiculously bad outfield with a key component being an injury-prone 38 year player.

Having 3 guys like Hamilton/Griffey/Freel gave the Reds a fallback when the injury to one of them invariably happened.

Oh well. The Reds want to p#ss away cheap talent that's their choice.

And the Reds develop a pitcher? That's rich. This poor b#stard from TX now sees his career DOA before the plane hits the tarmac in northern KY. Sad....
   68. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: December 23, 2007 at 12:54 AM (#2652427)
I wonder how close the Reds are to his AA sponsor. Sure sounds like a "safety first" type trade, although Volquez does have some potential.

I'm not sure who his sponsor is, but Jerry Narron's firing probably created a rift between Hamilton and the organzation that led to this. Narron and Hamilton are from the same part of NC and had known each other since Hamilton was in HS. After picking up Hamilton in the Rule 5 the Reds hired Jerry's brother Johnny to baby-sit Hamilton. Johnny even held on to Josh's meal money during road trips so that Josh wouldn't be tempted with all that cash burning a hole in his pocket. Johnny wasn't rehired for '08, no surprise given that they had canned his brother. Hamilton was certainly not happy about it - he referred to him and Johnny as a package deal. So this isn't a surprise. I'm sad to see Josh go, and wish him the best in Texas.
   69. Nolan Giesbrecht Posted: December 23, 2007 at 01:01 AM (#2652430)
Which is why I posted the youtube link in #45. I mean, if he can so quickly forget about the woman who stayed with him through all his troubles...and his two daughters....in order to hit on a 14 year old girl...it suggests a personality that still has some serious maturity issues, no matter how much he talks about God and all that stuff.


Maybe I'm being naive, but I cannot fathom how you reached this conclusion based on that short clip. He was signing a ball for a girl, asked her a question and then walked away when she answered. I'm deeply in love with my wife and never want to do anything to jeopardize our relationship and I would have done the exact same thing he did, perhaps even staying a few minutes longer to chat.
   70. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: December 23, 2007 at 01:33 AM (#2652443)
Hmmm, America is at least 80% Christian, so I'm wagering that most, if not all, of the obnoxious bores you've encountered ARE Christian...


That's a silly remark for somebody that has NO idea of my social associations past or present.
   71. Kyle S Posted: December 23, 2007 at 01:40 AM (#2652446)
Maybe I'm being naive, but I cannot fathom how you reached this conclusion based on that short clip. He was signing a ball for a girl, asked her a question and then walked away when she answered. I'm deeply in love with my wife and never want to do anything to jeopardize our relationship and I would have done the exact same thing he did, perhaps even staying a few minutes longer to chat.

Amen. The clip wasn't shot at 4am outside a nightclub - its at 1 in the afternoon right before a friggin' spring training game. Good lord.
   72. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 23, 2007 at 02:04 AM (#2652456)
The Narron thing is a very good point. Jerry was a big Josh fan.

It's just that I see Hamilton play and I see Edmonds. The good Jimmy. Not the hobbled soul currently limping around the ballfield.

You would think a club would try to keep a guy like that on the right path. Freel has had issues of late and he's still on the roster. And he's just ok. Josh could be special.
   73. Excel Hearts Choi Posted: December 23, 2007 at 03:19 PM (#2652613)
How come this trade is seen as either a steal for the Rangers, or a some sort of cautionary tale as to the future of Hamilton? As a Rangers fan, I would love for this trade to be a steal. However, this seems more like a trade where two teams deal from a position of strength to fill a need. The only difference between this deal and the Matt Garza/Demon Young deal is that there are some question marks.
   74. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 23, 2007 at 07:25 PM (#2652712)
Rangers hire Narron, in large part because of his relationship with Hamilton.

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