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Wednesday, October 31, 2012

Hannibal Courier-Post: Farmer: Time for DH in NL

As Clemens fan turned Clemens fan, Mark Twainwright once said…“I hope the DH will long survive me and remain always prosperous.”

It is ridiculous!

In today’s free agency market, players come and go like the wind. There is no loyalty anymore. The days of players staying with one team (Cal Ripken Jr., Tony Gywnn, Robin Yount, George Brett, Derek Jeter, and Chipper Jones) are gone. We witnessed that first hand with the defection of Albert Pujols last offseason.

I know I said I am against change, but at the same time, I am for the safety of players. When a starting pitcher like AJ Burnett spends six years in the American League, he very rarely bats. Then he switches leagues because he is traded to the Pirates and suddenly he has to bat. Having not batted regularly in the American League, Burnett needed to get acclimated to it again during spring training. That is when he was injured. Burnett attempted to bunt the ball and it hit him in the face during batting practice. Burnett suffered an orbital fracture and did not start the season with the Pirates.
If Burnett had more time at the plate, that accident might not have happened and the Pirates might have had their starting pitcher with them to open the season.

...Yes pitchers are athletes, but they play in a league where they don’t have to bat. If you don’t do something long enough, the skills start to erode.

As much as everyone wants to do away with the DH and just have pitchers hit again, it will never happen. The Major League Baseball Players Association is too strong. There is no way the union would allow baseball to eliminate 15 jobs. I am sure they would however, be willing to make some kind of concession to add an additional 15 jobs.

Repoz Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:35 PM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. JJ1986 Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4289391)
I miss those long ago halcyon days when Derek Jeter and Chipper Jones played.
   2. Portia Stanke Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4289395)
Repoz-ed!
   3. SG Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4289402)
But teh double switch?
   4. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4289417)
There is no way the union would allow baseball to eliminate 15 jobs

The AL has rosters of 26? Why didn't anyone tell me?
   5. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4289424)
Rumors that this guy can write are greatly exaggerated
   6. BDC Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4289428)
The days of players staying with one team … are gone. We witnessed that first hand with the defection of Albert Pujols last offseason


I wish I'd witnessed it with Michael Young last offseason.
   7. JJ1986 Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4289431)
I wish I'd witnessed it with Michael Young last offseason.


Instead, you got defecation.
   8. BDC Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:54 PM (#4289448)
But seriously, how about the actual arguments here? Looking at them more closely, I don't understand them. For one thing, with interleague play, AL pitchers bat and take BP pretty often. For another, if it results in him going 16-10 with an ERA of 3.50, A.J. Burnett should look into getting hit in the face every spring.
   9. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4289449)
Get rid of the f'n DH already.
   10. Swedish Chef Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4289454)
The solomonic solution would be to introduce the DH in the NL and abolish it in the AL.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4289456)
Soon, Burnett will just wear his pitching helmet when he bats!
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4289463)
If Burnett had more time at the plate, that accident might not have happened


Exactly. Just like practicing walking on a sidewalk reduces your chances of tripping on a crack.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4289472)
There is no way the union would allow baseball to eliminate 15 jobs


?????? Nobody this stupid could have written an article claiming for the DH, could they? I mean seriously, is there one person on the planet that thinks that the Union would oppose the DH? It's 15 full time jobs, instead of part time jobs, if the union is about money, then the DH is the way they would prefer.
   14. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4289474)
+1
   15. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4289479)
Get rid of the DH in exchange for expanding rosters to 26 players. There.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4289482)
I don't see any value for baseball in getting rid of the DH (or adopting it fulltime). You have fans of both brands of baseball, some ferociously so (Vlad and Lisa on one side, Ray on the other). What's the point of alienating one group of fans simply for homogeneity's sake?

   17. cardsfanboy Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4289485)
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4289482)
I don't see any value for baseball in getting rid of the DH (or adopting it fulltime). You have fans of both brands of baseball, some ferociously so (Vlad and Lisa on one side, Ray on the other). What's the point of alienating one group of fans simply for homogeneity's sake?


That is the crux of it all, ultimately it's in baseball's best interest to keep them separate. I used to argue that eventually the DH will happen in both leagues, now I'm less certain because the appeal of keeping it separate is too much to resist.
   18. BDC Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4289486)
Choose the DH from the stands, randomly, the way they now choose people to upgrade to luxury boxes or get free coupons for tacos. This will add lots of interest, particularly if the DH turns out to be four years old.
   19. just plain joe Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4289497)
particularly if the DH turns out to be four years old.


Small strike zone!!! All the kid has to do is stand there in a crouch and, voila, base on balls; might need a pinch-runner at some point though.
   20. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4289502)
DH from the stands, randomly, the way they now choose people to upgrade to luxury boxes or get free coupons for tacos

or better yet, make the DH's use a taco for a bat
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4289507)
Small strike zone!!! All the kid has to do is stand there in a crouch and, voila, base on balls; might need a pinch-runner at some point though.


You have obviously never played baseball with a four year old. You can't tell them to not swing, they are going to swing regardless of where the pitch is at.
   22. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4289533)
I prefer the current system. If I must choose, no DH.
   23. Astroenteritis (tom) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4289539)
The solomonic solution would be to introduce the DH in the NL and abolish it in the AL.


As a follower of a team which lost a grueling relegation struggle and has been demoted to the American League, I believe this is a very wise idea.


   24. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 06:14 PM (#4289561)
That is the crux of it all, ultimately it's in baseball's best interest to keep them separate. I used to argue that eventually the DH will happen in both leagues, now I'm less certain because the appeal of keeping it separate is too much to resist.

Separate is NEVER equal, remember Plessy V. Ferguson. (ducks)
   25. valuearbitrageur Posted: October 31, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4289566)
Vlad and Lisa on one side, Ray on the other). What's the point of alienating one group of fans


You just made the greatest argument for abolishing DH ever.
   26. cardsfanboy Posted: October 31, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4289570)
You just made the greatest argument for abolishing DH ever.


You are talking about Ray though, he doesn't even watch baseball, he just sits at home looking at the predictions of what should have happen and assumes that is what happened and ignores the realities in front of him.
   27. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: October 31, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4289632)
Small strike zone!!! All the kid has to do is stand there in a crouch and, voila, base on balls; might need a pinch-runner at some point though.

Wasn't there one of the kids in Backyard Baseball who was especially good because he was small, so his strike zone was small? And then he was also a really good hitter, so anything in the zone he smashed? For some reason, your post reminded me of that, hah.
   28. Davo Dozier Posted: October 31, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4289707)
During his career, Daniel Cabrera went 0 for 26 with 24 strikeouts.
   29. Lassus Posted: October 31, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4289709)
No.

(Although I do like Swedish Chef's suggestion.)
   30. Cooper Nielson Posted: October 31, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4289714)
The days of players staying with one team (Cal Ripken Jr., Tony Gywnn, Robin Yount, George Brett, Derek Jeter, and Chipper Jones) are gone.

Wait... what? Did Jeter retire?

The lament that "players don't stay with one team anymore" is pretty much exactly as accurate as it has been for the past 30 years. It's been a very, very long time since it was "normal" to spend an entire (long) career with one team. But the days are not "gone."

Jeter and Rivera are (probably) back next year, Todd Helton, Jimmy Rollins, Michael Young and Brian Roberts have been with their teams 12+ seasons already, and guys like Justin Verlander, Joe Mauer, Matt Kemp, Troy Tulowitzki, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Ryan Zimmerman, and Joey Votto (signed through 2023!) seem like they could be headed that way. Ryan Howard might be physically done before his Phillies contract is.
   31. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 31, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4289717)
The lament that "players don't stay with one team anymore" is pretty much exactly as accurate as it has been for the past 30 years. It's been a very, very long time since it was "normal" to spend an entire (long) career with one team. But the days are not "gone."


It's never been normal for players to spend their entire careers with one team. It's always been the extraordinarily rare. The only difference between the FA era and the reserve clause days are that both parties can now be "disloyal," rather than just the owners. But the owners in the reserve clause days were generally disloyal enough for both. Playing one's entire career for one franchise has always been the exception, best exemplified by the all-time Braves-only list (the top 3 are all FA-era players), despite the franchise being older than God.

   32. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4289727)
You are talking about Ray though, he doesn't even watch baseball, he just sits at home looking at the predictions of what should have happen and assumes that is what happened and ignores the realities in front of him.

This is awesome. No, not only awesome, the single defining moment of awesomeness. A primey for sure.
   33. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: November 01, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4289752)
Jeter and Rivera are (probably) back next year, Todd Helton, Jimmy Rollins, Michael Young and Brian Roberts have been with their teams 12+ seasons already, and guys like Justin Verlander, Joe Mauer, Matt Kemp, Troy Tulowitzki, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Ryan Zimmerman, and Joey Votto (signed through 2023!) seem like they could be headed that way. Ryan Howard might be physically done before his Phillies contract is.


You can add Ryan Braun to that list as well. Of course, lots of guys look like they're headed that way until they pull a Joe Namath.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: November 01, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4290018)
You can add Ryan Braun to that list as well. Of course, lots of guys look like they're headed that way until they pull a Joe Namath.


C'mon at least pull a name of a good player, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, etc. (although they had two years with their replacement teams), but a borderline replacement quarterback?
   35. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 01, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4290044)
Frank Thomas will always be a Blue Jay to me.
   36. BDC Posted: November 01, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4290062)
It's never been normal for players to spend their entire careers with one team. It's always been the extraordinarily rare

It is more common now than in the heyday of the reserve clause for the very top players to change teams in their prime. In the 1950s and 60s, when the current crop of old farts was growing up, major stars tended to be traded, if at all, pretty late in their careers. Imagine Ernie Banks becoming a free agent in the 1959-60 offseason. I think that people remember Mays as a Giant, Aaron as a Brave (in both cases their teams were more loyal to them than to the cities they played in), and the final couple of years are an afterthought. Banks would have been Mr. Cub if he'd played his last two seasons with the Padres (it has never hurt Billy Williams's or Ron Santo's images as Cubs that they ended up on other clubs). Whereas there's little chance that Banks is remembered as Mr. Cub if he plays the 1960s with the Yankees or Dodgers before a stint in San Diego.

Of course there are counterexamples (Frank Robinson, and several pitchers, who have always been a bit more moveable than great position players), but by and large, there is a pretty normal (though not inevitable) change of uniform somewhere in a great star's midcareer now, and it's been that way since the 1970s.
   37. SoSH U at work Posted: November 01, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4290070)
Of course there are counterexamples (Frank Robinson, and several pitchers, who have always been a bit more moveable than great position players), but by and large, there is a pretty normal (though not inevitable) change of uniform somewhere in a great star's midcareer now, and it's been that way since the 1970s.


Agreed, but that's just talking about a change in when the moves happened, not the overall effect. And it's simply true that it has never been common for players to play their entire career for one franchise, as just a look at the all-time greats would indicate. It might be slightly more unlikely now, but not dramatically so. And that's because a byproduct of the FA era which gave players the opportunity to move against their employers wishes was the 5 and 10 rights that gave them the opportunity to stay.

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