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Friday, July 20, 2012

Happ, Lyon among 10 in Blue Jays-Astros swap

The Astros and Blue Jays made a 10-player trade with the Toronto Blue Jays on Friday.

Houston will ultimately receive seven players from Toronto in the deal, including two Major League players, right-hander Francisco Cordero and outfielder Ben Francisco, four Minor League players, right-handers Joe Musgrove and Asher Wojciechowski, left-hander David Rollins, catcher Carlos Perez and a player to be named later.

Two of the players the Astros received are former first-round Draft picks. In exchange for the seven players, the Astros have sent right-hander Brandon Lyon, left-hander J.A. Happ and right-hander David Carpenter to the Blue Jays.

Man, that’s a “Baseball Mogul” trade if I ever saw one.

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 11:30 AM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, blue jays, general, houston, toronto, trades

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   1. UCCF Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4188013)
If you judge this trade on the number of Franciscos acquired, the Astros win this in a rout.
   2. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4188019)
I want to meet the internet poster who was campaigning for this.
   3. Bourbon Samurai Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4188025)
This sounds like the result of a GM drinking session to me
   4. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4188026)
Like many things the Blue Jays do this seems odd but I'm sure that tomorrow we'll see then trade Brandon Lyon and David Carpenter for B.J. Upton or something.
   5. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4188034)
A rotoworld note on the deal had a typo calling it a 'ten team' trade. I was momentarily VERY interested.
   6. BFFB Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4188040)
Is like one of those baseball mogul trades where you swindle a GM out of a good player by giving him several craptastic players and a bunch of minor league guff?
   7. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4188045)
I can't help but think this is a stepping stone to a bigger trade either, but at least we know why Snider was called up now.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4188046)
Is like one of those baseball mogul trades where you swindle a GM out of a good player by giving him several craptastic players and a bunch of minor league guff?

OK but which one's the "good player"?
   9. JRVJ Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4188052)
Doesn't seem like a huge, transcendent trade (other than in number of players being dealt), but I'm certainly not the most savy person on the talent involved.
   10. RJ in TO Posted: July 20, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4188059)
The Jays clearly win this trade by getting rid of Cordero.
   11. KJOK Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4188067)
...Blue Jays made a 10-player trade with the Toronto Blue Jays on Friday.

something seems redundant here...
   12. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4188068)
Some related discussion here.
   13. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4188071)
I like it more for Houston (several of these prospects are solid - not great - but interesting) than Toronto, but it makes sense for both teams.
   14. Johnny Tuttle Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4188082)
If the Jays were going to deal prospects for arms, Wojciechowski and Musgrave were the right level of prospect. No, Happ's not likely to transition well to the AL East, but for the moment, healthy arms worth playing at all are few and far between in Toronto. A trade not likely to help much.....but a trade that should save Toronto fans from worse farm raiding and some painful MLB starts.
   15. Good cripple hitter Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4188092)
The Jays clearly win this trade by getting rid of Cordero.


That was my response too, I'm happy about the trade on that level.

The Jays now have 2/3rds of the Astros return for Roy Oswalt.

Happ looks like the type of pitcher who'll get lit up in Toronto.
   16. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4188098)
If the main point for Toronto was saving cash, does that mean they're going to take on salary in some other deal? This seems like a lot of work just to be able to upgrade from Joe Replacement to JA Happ and call up Travis Snider.
   17. Eric P. Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4188099)
I....really don't get this deal for the Jays. OK, Lyon has more left in the tank than Cordero & Carpenter is an interesting live arm. Fine. It still doesn't explain that they seem to think J.A. Happ, he of the 76 ERA+ over the last two years, can help them in the race for the second wild card spot. This is like giving up a lottery ticket for a pack of bologna.
   18. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4188104)
This is like giving up a lottery ticket for a pack of bologna.

An 8-year old would make that deal every time.
   19. just plain joe Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4188105)
This sounds like the result of a GM drinking session to me


Wouldn't be the first.
   20. zonk Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4188107)
I'm very happy about this trade -- I've been hanging on to JA Happ for some reason in my roto league and finally, now that he's in the AL, I can cut him loose.
   21. Bob Evans Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4188112)
This is some old-school Frank Lane #### right here.
   22. mex4173 Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4188113)
I'm firmly in favor of anything that gets rid of Cordero.
   23. Paul D(uda) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4188116)

I don't think that the Jays save money on this trade, do they?
   24. formerly dp Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4188118)
This seems to make no sense from Toronto's perspective. Is this their "going for it" deal? Any of the prospects in any way decent?
   25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4188128)
Did no one tell AA about the new CBA? Maybe he thinks he can get a draft pick for Brandon Lyon.
   26. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4188135)
I can't see Happ sticking around with the ML clun for more than a handful of starts, at best. He's going to make Jo-jo Reyes look competent.
   27. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 20, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4188149)
   28. Al Kaline Trio Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4188172)
Not sure where we got this but as a kid we would say Wo Jack! when we were surprised. To mock people we would say Wojciechowski.
   29. villageidiom Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4188183)
This seems to make no sense from Toronto's perspective. Is this their "going for it" deal?
It doesn't even clear out space on the 40-man for another acquisition. In fact it adds to Toronto's 40-man roster. (Getting 3 players on 40-man in return for 2 such players.)

This is the mother of all "meh" trades. Neither team gains much nor loses much, despite the volume of players trading unis.
   30. formerly dp Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4188193)
This is the mother of all "meh" trades. Neither team gains much nor loses much, despite the volume of players trading unis.

Is it me, or has this trading season been really disappointing from a rumor standpoint? The Red Sox/Marlins deal was interesting, but it had no legs from the start. Unless I just haven't been paying attention...
   31. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4188200)
The new rule where if you hang on to your veteran and let him become a free agent, you get draft picks, but if you trade him and he leaves his new team, the new team doesn't get draft picks, can't be helping.
   32. Dan Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4188201)
Obviously the Jays traded for Happ specifically to include him in a trade for Hamels, since Amaro will overvalue him as an ex-Phillie and as a guy who overachieved in Philly before going to Houston.
   33. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 20, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4188205)
The new rule where if you hang on to your veteran and let him become a free agent, you get draft picks, but if you trade him and he leaves his new team, the new team doesn't get draft picks, can't be helping.


I think the bigger issue is the second Wild Card with a little helping of underachieving teams (e.g. Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers). The American League currently has seven teams within three games of that second WC. Conversely, a year ago the Yankees were the Wild Card leader and had a six game lead on the Rays at roughly the same point.

The National League is not as congested but still modestly more than it was a year ago. Right now there are three teams within four games of Atlanta for the second WC as opposed to last year when the Braves had a five game lead on Arizona and Pittsburgh.

I also think it's a bit early for the rumors to heat up. I suspect after HoF weekend we'll start hearing a lot more.
   34. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:00 PM (#4188210)
The mother of all meh trades, indeed. How on earth did this even materialize?

TOR: We want Happ!

HOU: Okay, give us Francisco and Codero.

TOR: Throw in Lyon!

HOU: Okay but give us Musgrove and Wojciechowski and Perez.

TOR: Throw in Carpenter!

HOU: Sure, if you throw in Rollins and a PTBNL.

TOR: Deal!

Seriously? This conversation actually happened?
   35.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4188214)
This seems to make no sense from Toronto's perspective. Is this their "going for it" deal? Any of the prospects in any way decent?


This is a "dear God can we make it through the season" deal. They have been shuffling relievers up and down and literally calling up random arms from double A (yes, double A) that nobody has ever heard of. Brandon Lyon at least gives them a major league reliever who can plausibly be good. JA HApp gives them a player that is capable of starting, if not well, which is helpful since the Jays are practically pulling names out of a hat to determine who is going to start on a particular day. And then there's Cordero, who had to get as far away as possible (Houston does the trick,) before somebody shot him. So this accomplishes a few things.

I don't really think they are "going" for it, but SOMEBODY has to pitch in the next 60 games or whatever it is.
   36. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4188221)
a couple of years ago I happened to be up in Pa near the trade deadline , and the afternoon idiot on WIP was BERATING Ruben Amaro for trading Happ to get Oswald.

"Happ is the future!!"
   37. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:26 PM (#4188233)
I take back my #34. I had no idea how dire Toronto's pitching was until Shock's comment, and it makes a lot more sense now.

Boy, if you have to go to the Houston Astros because you need three major league pitchers...
   38. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4188239)
Sure, most of Toronto's pitching staff is on the 60-day DL and they've used 26 different pitchers this year, but they've had a stable 5-man rotation for the last month. The problem is that those 5 men are Ricky Romero, Henderson Alvarez, Brett Cecil, Carlos Villanueva and Aaron Laffey.
   39. mathesond Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4188244)
The problem is that those 5 men are Ricky Romero, Henderson Alvarez, Brett Cecil, Carlos Villanueva and Aaron Laffey.


And they are likely to stay that way for the short term - word is that Happ will go to the 'pen until one of the aforementioned starters implodes
   40. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4188245)
"Happ is the future!!"


If you think about the national debt and global warming and peak oil and overpopulation and a generation who are growing up watching the Kardashians then the future starts to look a lot like J.A. Happ.
   41. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4188253)
The final seven pieces of the puzzle.
   42. Paul D(uda) Posted: July 20, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4188255)
And they are likely to stay that way for the short term - word is that Happ will go to the 'pen until one of the aforementioned starters implodes

I think they're just saying that because Laffey starts tonight.
   43. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 20, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4188275)
I think Happ is a slightly better pitcher than his performance to date suggests, a cromulent four. The Jays could use that.
   44. Tricky Dick Posted: July 20, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4188295)
I think Happ is a slightly better pitcher than his performance to date suggests, a cromulent four. The Jays could use that.


I may be the one of the few Astros' fan to have good things to say about Happ, but I think he has pitched fairly well this year, certainly a lot better than his ERA indicates. His velocity is up, he is actually striking out batters (8.5/9), and his walk rate is the best of his career. He used to be a pitcher who out performed his peripheral stats, and now he is the opposite, pitching below his peripherals. He can still be hard to watch because he throws so many pitches and can really slow it down with runners on base. But I don't think he is a bad gamble for the Blue Jays to take, considering he doesn't cost a lot.

I think this is a good trade for both sides. The Jays deal from a position of strength in their farm system, and the Astros get some promising prospects to add more depth to their farm system and accelerate the rebuilding process. Meanwhile the Astros didn't lose anyone that is important to even the near term future of the big league team.
   45.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 20, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4188343)
And they are likely to stay that way for the short term - word is that Happ will go to the 'pen until one of the aforementioned starters implodes


*gets hit in the leg by a come-backer.
   46. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 20, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4188501)
I think the bigger issue is the second Wild Card with a little helping of underachieving teams (e.g. Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers). The American League currently has seven teams within three games of that second WC. Conversely, a year ago the Yankees were the Wild Card leader and had a six game lead on the Rays at roughly the same point.


I know I haven't been paying as much attention this season as I should, but, wow, I had no idea it had gotten that bad...
   47. Walt Davis Posted: July 21, 2012 at 01:32 AM (#4188567)
In a way it's a shame that a blockbuster deal like this gets upstaged by the huge Guthrie-Sanchez deal on the same day.
   48. base ball chick Posted: July 21, 2012 at 02:32 AM (#4188579)
not sorry to see happ go and i bet he's really delighted to get the heck out of houston where he never wanted to be. he's the kind of guy who has a tough time adjusting to an umpire who doesn't give him the high pitches, but he strikes out more guys than i think he does.

lyon was being used as a ROOGY

carpenter lost whatever he had last year, maybe a new pitching coach will do it for him

- as for what we got back - another crappy OF? REALLY? coco cordero on his last legs? REALLY?

none of the minor leaguers looks like greatness, but yeah, i know, it's A ball and youneverknow. Asher W looks like a control pitcher, from his stats, and it will be interesting to see if the stros send him to lancaster to rot or just promote him to AA. the AA starters they have all look like shtt.

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