Han fired first.

#######-A right he did.

Hopefully Gary Oldham and his gang show up as well to finish the job from Air Force One.

We named the dog Indiana.

I didn't kill my career!

But give me a couple years.

am I the only person in the world who has never seen ANY of the Star Wars movies?
(I poisonally blame George Lucas for ruining the American movie paradigm)
(the man has talent--TXH1138 and American Graffiti proved that)

I also have never seen a Star Wars movie, or Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter or Twilight or....

What the #### is wrong with you that you watched THX1138 and not star wars?

What the #### is wrong with you that you watched THX1138 and not star wars?

ummm--because I have taste?

#6, #9 -- Get your head out of that Pauline Kael book and go watch some movies.

I liked Spielberg when he was crafting masterworks like "Escape to Nowhere," "Firelight" and The Last Gunfight," but that was before he sold out, man.

I cannot wait for the 42 review thread. That is going to be epic.

42 review thread

I am "rooting for" 42; it's kind of weird. I want it to be a good movie.

I liked Spielberg when he was crafting masterworks like "Escape to Nowhere," "Firelight" and The Last Gunfight," but that was before he sold out, man.

Yeah, but Duel was OK.

Harrison Ford (who plays Dodgers general manager Branch Rickey), Robinson’s son David, and former Star sportswriter Joe Posnanski

I never knew he had that kind of range!

...ah I think I missed the brackets.


I'm not sure if drawing a distinction between a movie you've see and a movie you haven't seen is evidence of taste.

Han fired first.

The fact that Lucas doesn't realize the difference in how it affects the development of the character is something that makes me feel he has lost a lot. He goes from being a roguish person who realizes a situation and seizes the answer that works for in the moment and worrying about the consequences later, to a guy who got lucky that blasters in the Star Wars universe have zero accuracy. If Greedo shot first was in the original Star Wars on release, I think Han Solo's popularity would have been severely diminished.

42 isn't a Douglas Adams biopic? I probably won't go, then.

He goes from being a roguish person who realizes a situation and seizes the answer that works for in the moment and worrying about the consequences later, to a guy who got lucky that blasters in the Star Wars universe have zero accuracy.

I think much of the interpretation (in general, not specifically yours) is overblown. Switching to Greedo shooting first, in a case where both were essentially firing at the same time both before and after, is seen as altering Solo's image as a rogue. The later update also includes scenes with Jabba, which underscore Solo's unreliability. It helps to make the same case, and thus makes the "first shot" unnecessary.

Honestly, until the uproar over the change, I didn't recall that Han Solo had shot first. I recall that they both shot at essentially the same time and Greedo missed, which in itself was lame. The second version doesn't materially change that. It's tinkering for the sake of tinkering, but then blown way out of proportion because people don't like that kind of thing.

What is ruined in the second version isn't that Greedo shot first, but that Jabba - whose bounty on Solo was the reason Greedo was there in the first place - was essentially right next door, with a cadre of bounty hunters, waiting for Solo outside his ship... and let him walk off after a nice chat. That completely ruined the purpose of the bounty, which is a major story arc through Episodes 5 and 6.

42 isn't a Douglas Adams biopic?

No, no, it is. It is.

Han shot first is a proxy for all of the stupid tinkering with the original trilogy that Lucas has done over the years, from adding unnecessary scenes (like Han talking to Jabba in SW), to cluttering up the frame with stupid CGI, to changing the tone and meaning of scenes, characters, and the movie as a whole (e.g., having Vader say "noooooo!" in the climax of ROTJ). Han and greedo is a particularly bad example because it changes the scene, changes Hans' character in a subtle but meaningful way, and adds a really cheesy CGI effect. And then of course there are the prequels, a complete fiasco.

I always interpreted it as a kid as Greedo missing because Solo hit him first. Though there's a lot of viewer interpretation going on there as laser beams move pretty fast.

Greedo went through Stormtrooper marksmanship training. Top of his class!

Honestly, until the uproar over the change, I didn't recall that Han Solo had shot first. I recall that they both shot at essentially the same time and Greedo missed, which in itself was lame.

In the original Greedo doesn't shoot at all. Greedo says "I've been waiting a long time for this," Han says "I bet you have," then Han shoots him. What's so great is that Greedo goes from being a real menace to being dead in an instant, without getting all that close to killing Han. It brings out the roguishness in Han, but it also highlights the comedy that constantly surrounds him.

EDIT: Side-by-side video of the two versions of the scene!

I always interpreted it as a kid as Greedo missing because Solo hit him first.

That's how I see it, Solo kills because he's every bit the killer Greedo is, and that's why Solo shooting first matters. We can snark about how all the baddies are terrible shots, but the only way the Solo/Greedo scene works is if we understand that Greedo is a truly dangerous guy and not just one of Jabba's sloppy hired hands. Solo shooting first tells the audience that Solo is even more dangerous. It introduces him as a questionable ally and a ruthless man, as well as an effective foil for Luke, and a basic all-around badasss.

...Jabba - whose bounty on Solo was the reason Greedo was there in the first place - was essentially right next door, with a cadre of bounty hunters, waiting for Solo outside his ship... and let him walk off after a nice chat.

The Jabba thing sucked.

Is this the place where I register my disgust with the music in the 42 ads?

Honestly, until the uproar over the change, I didn't recall that Han Solo had shot first. I recall that they both shot at essentially the same time and Greedo missed, which in itself was lame.

Greedo never shot period. That was the point.

Greedo: You can tell that to Jabba. At best, he may only take your ship.
Han Solo: Over my dead body!
Greedo: That's the idea... I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
Han Solo: Yeah, I'll bet you have.
[Han blasts Greedo, then heads out, tossing the bartender a coin]
Han Solo: Sorry about the mess.

Han realized his predicament, that Greedo was going to kill him, so he proactively reacted.


Edit:Or what Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat said.

Is this the place where I register my disgust with the music in the 42 ads?

I was generally blah about this for 10 or 15 seconds the first time I saw it, then it didn't bother me.

Is this the place where I register my disgust with the music in the 42 ads?


I haven't been paying attention -- is it the Carpenters and Debbie Boone or something?

That's how I see it, Solo kills because he's every bit the killer Greedo is, and that's why Solo shooting first matters. We can snark about how all the baddies are terrible shots, but the only way the Solo/Greedo scene works is if we understand that Greedo is a truly dangerous guy and not just one of Jabba's sloppy hired hands. Solo shooting first tells the audience that Solo is even more dangerous. It introduces him as a questionable ally and a ruthless man, as well as an effective foil for Luke, and a basic all-around badasss.

Exactly right, IMO. The scene as originally shot and cut is a very skilful and effective bit of filmmaking that establishes the character in a concise, economical and coherent way. It shows the real filmmaking chops the younger Lucas had. What's so sad and frustrating about the change (and the other changes he has made) is that the older Lucas seems to no longer understand why the choices his younger self made were artistically and narratively the right ones.

am I the only person in the world who has never seen ANY of the Star Wars movies?

I'm sure there are some North Koreans who haven't seen them.

Exactly right, IMO. The scene as originally shot and cut is a very skilful and effective bit of filmmaking that establishes the character in a concise, economical and coherent way. It shows the real filmmaking chops the younger Lucas had. What's so sad and frustrating about the change (and the other changes he has made) is that the older Lucas seems to no longer understand why the choices his younger self made were artistically and narratively the right ones.

Adding the "nooooo!" to Vader at the end of ROTJ is a perfect example of this. In the original, Vader just looks back and forth for a few seconds as the emperor slowly kills Vader's son. You can't see his face of course, and he doesn't say anything, but a lot of conflict and emotion is conveyed just through the editing and the movement of his head. It isn't brilliant film making or anything, but it's a good scene. But the older Lucas doesn't trust the audience enough to get the nuance, so he has to add a terrible bit of dialogue. "Oh, NOW I get it. Vader is upset that the emperor is torturing his son and his humanity finally breaks through!"

My love of Star Wars is so deep even the tinkering and travisty of the sequals can harm it. And yes I cosign on the han/greedo thoughts above, was great. And get the heck off my lawn.

Note: You should see SW (and the Empire Strikes Back), not because you must or they are great movies (I think they are), but it has become a touchstone for cultural literacy. And even if you have not seen them, don't be THAT guy. You know the one from college who claimed he never watched TV growing up, only listened to NPR and classical music, and basically never lowered himself to partake of prole entertainment. Not that I am saying you are being that guy, just saying he is closer than he should be that's all.

It shows the real filmmaking chops the younger Lucas had. What's so sad and frustrating about the change (and the other changes he has made) is that the older Lucas seems to no longer understand why the choices his younger self made were artistically and narratively the right ones.

When Lucas made the first Star Wars, he ran the script past all of his friends and acquaintences in the movie business, people like Coppola and Spielberg and John Milius and Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz and Matthew Robbins, and they did uncredited polishes that tightened it up and took a lot of George's stupid crap out.

I just hope the Mouse (Not the Bitter one, the really rich one) can do SW justice and get it back on track.

Note: You should see SW (and the Empire Strikes Back), not because you must or they are great movies (I think they are), but it has become a touchstone for cultural literacy.

But first, you should see Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress," because that is the touchstone for a touchstone for cultural literacy.

Exactly right, IMO. The scene as originally shot and cut is a very skilful and effective bit of filmmaking that establishes the character in a concise, economical and coherent way. It shows the real filmmaking chops the younger Lucas had. What's so sad and frustrating about the change (and the other changes he has made) is that the older Lucas seems to no longer understand why the choices his younger self made were artistically and narratively the right ones.

When he made the change Lucas claimed in an interview that the original Han/Greedo scene always bothered him... that Han shouldn't have shot first...

If Han doesn't shoot first he's either dead or handed over to Jabba...

Of course in Lucas' mind- if Greedo doesn't shoot first he can't re-insert the Jabba meets Han scene cut out of the original- where Han meets Jabba and Jabba lets Han go -indicating that unless Greedo shoots first his death is unnecessary- Han was not in fear for his life at the possibility of being turned over to Jabba (yet- obviously by movie 2 he was)

and Lucas wanted the scene in- because with modern CGI he could...

I cannot wait for the 42 review thread. That is going to be epic.

Looking forward to it as well. The movie? Not at all.

42 isn't a Douglas Adams biopic? I probably won't go, then.

I started to read that book but lost interest. But that would probably be a better movie.

Is this the place where I register my disgust with the music in the 42 ads?

Yeah. Are there no film scores anymore? Or maybe they just use that stuff for the ads. Guess they're targeting punk kids(?)

Is this the place where I register my disgust with the music in the 42 ads?

It's a good song. Santigold is great. When I first heard it, I sort of was waiting for the movie to be made.

Looking forward to it as well. The movie? Not at all.

Why not?

Why not?

I often judge movies by the previews, and it looks a bit cheesy, maybe a tad melodramatic. Of course it's not a fool-proof method since I've misjudged movies. Maybe I'll stumble upon it on TV in a few years. But I'm not spending any money on it.