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Thursday, April 11, 2013

HBT - The class system and the ballpark

The ability to pay to get out of some sort of drudgery of everyday life or, alternatively, to get a taste of the good life. Front-of-the-line-passes. Elite status everything. It’s, in most respects, a logical extension of a capitalist system — if people want something, someone will provide it at some cost — but it also comes at another cost, and that of a shared civic experience.

THIS.  Nice post by Craig.

The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 01:47 PM | 61 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball, business, class war

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   1. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4410952)
Well, crap, I didn't set this up right for the quote.
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4410960)
God who on earth would pay money just to watch BP? That's ridiculous.
   3. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4410971)
If I had a kid that I was bringing to a game I might do that. Actually if I was bringing a couple of kids it would definitely be worth it. Let a couple 10-11 year old kids zip around the stands trying to catch bombs, they'd probably have a blast and I'd have fun watching them.
   4. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4410974)
So what are the Twins doing, letting in some ticketholders earlier than others? If that's really the case, and I have a hard time believing it, I'd love to be the fly inside the brain of the genius who thought that one up, because I'd have a lot fellow flies for company.
   5. BDC Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:09 PM (#4410979)
Front-of-the-line-passes

One service offered at the Ballpark last year was no-waiting concessions, whereby you ordered via smartphone and then went to the front of the line to get your hotdog. I'm not sure they're still doing this. For one thing, so many people now have smartphones that if everyone used the service they'd have to wait anyway. Everybody can't be first in line.

   6. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4410982)
At National games you order via smartphone (50 cent service chare per game) and they'll deliver what you ordered to your seat.
   7. spycake Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4410984)
Jolly: That was the proposal before it was quickly pulled a few hours after it was announced. Sell 60 "BP tickets" to regular ticketholders to hang out in the outfield stands during Twins BP, 45 minutes before the gates normally open. It was going to be a game-day sales only, though, which would mean you'd have to show up ~1 hour before the gates open just for the chance to spend more money to get in early.

It should probably just be a season ticket perk like Pittsburgh or the Dodgers have, or a nominal-fee fan club bonus like Boston does. (Or at least like Cincinnati, where similar tickets can be purchased in advance and bundled with a tour/museum admission.)
   8. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4410989)
The Twins intended to charge $15(!!!!) a ticket to allow up to 60 ticket buyers entry into the stadium 45 minutes earlier than the gates open for regular admission.

The amusing thing is that team president David St. Peter insists that it was not canceled because their customer base went apeshvt over the news. Talk about spinning it poorly.
   9. BDC Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4410994)
At National games you order via smartphone (50 cent service chare per game) and they'll deliver

I'd pay 50 cents extra per game not to eat Ballpark garlic fries.
   10. spycake Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:22 PM (#4410996)
At National games you order via smartphone (50 cent service chare per game) and they'll deliver what you ordered to your seat.


That's pretty cool. I suppose you have to tip the delivery person too?

Also, my limited research indicated that the Nationals have one of the better home batting practice policies: center field gate opens 2.5 hours before game time for all games.
   11. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4411001)
I suppose you have to tip the delivery person too?


You don't have to. You could be a cretin.
   12. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4411013)
How is not tipping an employee being a cretin? They aren't classified as tipped employees and on top of it they are union employees making a very good salary and have a very generous benefits package.
   13. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4411018)
That's pretty cool. I suppose you have to tip the delivery person too?

You don't have to. You could be a cretin.

How is not tipping an employee being a cretin?

And ... we're off!
   14. eddieot Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:47 PM (#4411021)
At National games you order via smartphone (50 cent service chare per game) and they'll deliver what you ordered to your seat.


You can do this using MLB's At The Ballpark app at Chase Field, Citizen's Bank Park, Marlins Park, Minute Maid Park and Progressive Field. More ballparks are supposed to come online in the future. At CBP you can also have souvenirs delivered to you. What I don't know, because I haven't tried it yet, is if you can also pay via mobile transaction. I will test this next time I go to a Phils game.
   15. BDC Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4411026)
You can do this using MLB's At The Ballpark app … At CBP you can also have souvenirs delivered to you

My gosh, I hope this doesn't expand into the area of human trafficking.
   16. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:52 PM (#4411032)
That's pretty cool. I suppose you have to tip the delivery person too?


At the new Boston Garden they have a similar program but they include gratuity in the price so they tell you tipping is not necessary..
   17. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4411044)
I don't think early admission for BP would really be an upper crust luxury thing. It sounds like something for someone who either wanted to explore the park, was an autograph hound, was a baseball groupie, had tickets in a standing room section and wanted to claim the best standing spot before the game, or who was a really fanatic for the game and wanted to see batting practice.



I also don't see why this offer would offend the Twins fanbase.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:02 PM (#4411046)
They aren't classified as tipped employees and on top of it they are union employees making a very good salary and have a very generous benefits package.


Are you sure about this? If I ordered food at a ballpark and someone delivered food to my seat, I would assume that their hourly wage is not very high and that they count on a certain amount of tips (although not as much as a restaurant waiter).
   19. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4411047)

How is not tipping an employee being a cretin? They aren't classified as tipped employees and on top of it they are union employees making a very good salary and have a very generous benefits package.


Shut the #### up and pay your money, Mr. Pink.
   20. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4411058)

Are you sure about this? If I ordered food at a ballpark and someone delivered food to my seat, I would assume that their hourly wage is not very high and that they count on a certain amount of tips (although not as much as a restaurant waiter).


I deal with the same union that works in Verizon and Nats Park. So I'm pretty sure. I also know that even if I'm wrong about them being classified as non-tipped employees the tipped employee classification gets paid over $10 an hour. A very specific set of job classifications get classified as tipped. If anything they probably fall into the busboy type classifcation and get paid somewhere between 12 to 15 dollars an hour.

Secondly even tipped employees must make at least minimum wage when combining their tips and wages so if somehow a tipped employee works all day and doesn't make enough in tips to equal minimum wage the employer must kick in enough to equal minimum wage.
   21. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4411068)
Thanks, I didn't realize that.

Of course, the tax/legal classification of an employee as tipped or non-tipped is not the final say as to whether it is good social practice to tip them.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4411073)
I deal with the same union that works in Verizon and Nats Park. So I'm pretty sure. I also know that even if I'm wrong about them being classified as non-tipped employees the tipped employee classification gets paid over $10 an hour. A very specific set of job classifications get classified as tipped. If anything they probably fall into the busboy type classifcation and get paid somewhere between 12 to 15 dollars an hour.

You have a very different definition of "very good salary" than I do.
   23. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:43 PM (#4411086)
How much do you think somebody who simply drops a bag off at your seat should make?

It is an absolute no-skill job that requires no intelligence, no education, no social skills, virtually nothing is needed out of the human being besides being able to walk with a bag. And for that they get paid a wage above minimum wage and get benefits. I'd classify anything above lick spittle as a very good salary for jobs like these.
   24. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4411088)
I think Snapper didn't know that the qualifier "for jobs like these" was implied...
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4411089)
How much do you think somebody who simply drops a bag off at your seat should make?

It is an absolute no-skill job that requires no intelligence, no education, no social skills, virtually nothing is needed out of the human being besides being able to walk with a bag. And for that they get paid a wage above minimum wage and get benefits. I'd classify anything above lick spittle as a very good salary for jobs like these.


The delivery people I've seen at Yankee Stadium are often carrying heavy trays in the hot sun. $12-15/hr doesn't seem too high, and I'd still throw them a couple of bucks for the effort. Hell, I give delivery guys $5, and they're driving, not walking.

How can they get benefits if they only work ~4 hours a day, 81 days a year?
   26. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4411091)
It is an absolute no-skill job that requires no intelligence, no education, no social skills, virtually nothing is needed out of the human being

Yet Jim Dolan makes a fortune every year because Daddy gave him the Knicks, even though he's a idiot that everybody actively and affirmatively hates.

Go figure.
   27. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4411096)
Jolly: That was the proposal before it was quickly pulled a few hours after it was announced. Sell 60 "BP tickets" to regular ticketholders to hang out in the outfield stands during Twins BP, 45 minutes before the gates normally open. It was going to be a game-day sales only, though, which would mean you'd have to show up ~1 hour before the gates open just for the chance to spend more money to get in early.

The question would then be whether those proposed 45 minutes were to be added to the normal gate opening time, or whether they were to be subtracted from it for everyone else. IOW if normally the gates open 2 hours before the 7:05 first pitch, does this mean that the premium pay would have gotten you in at 4:20, or does it mean that the rest of the crowd would have had to wait until 5:50? I'm assuming it would've been the former, but then anyone dumb enough to think up such an idea in the first place might easily be dumb enough to try the latter. Especially if they'd just been employed by an airline.

BTW when does BP usually begin these days, anyway? BITD when the gates opened 2 hours early, that'd be just about when the home team was in the middle of its BP and the visiting team was about to start. By getting in early you would have maybe seen an extra 10 minutes of it.

Of course if they really wanted to replicate the true BP experience of BITD, they'd stuff the inescapable music and let the fans enjoy the unalloyed sound of the crack of the bat echo all around the park. That's one of the many reasons that the ballpark experience back then was a whole lot better than it is today, in spite of all the designer food options brought to your seat via your smartphone.

   28. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4411098)
The Twins intended to charge $15(!!!!) a ticket to allow up to 60 ticket buyers entry into the stadium 45 minutes earlier than the gates open for regular admission.


Read the Sports on Earth article. The Astros charge $45 for it and the Braves $60 ($75 on the weekend) but you do get to go on the field.
   29. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4411104)
I still don't understand what was stupid/offensive/noticeably greedy about the Twins' $15 plan.

BTW when does BP usually begin these days, anyway? BITD when the gates opened 2 hours early, that'd be just about when the home team was in the middle of its BP and the visiting team was about to start. By getting in early you would have maybe seen an extra 10 minutes of it.


I think nowadays the gates are opening right near end of the home team's BP, or even after.
   30. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4411106)
How can they get benefits if they only work ~4 hours a day, 81 days a year?

Because they don't just work 81 days a year at 4 hours a day.
   31. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4411110)
The Stros link brings up no available BP tickets. Maybe they're just for the players?
   32. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:09 PM (#4411112)
Read the Sports on Earth article. The Astros charge $45 for it and the Braves $60 ($75 on the weekend) but you do get to go on the field.

And how many pages of waivers do you have to sign before going onto the field in case you might get conked by a ball?

It's a good thing lawyers hadn't been invented back when overflow crowds were allowed to stand and sit just outside the foul lines and right behind the coaches' boxes, sometimes up to more than 10,000 over the official seating capacity. I wonder what sort of premium the Braves would charge for that sort of view nowadays?
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:12 PM (#4411114)
And how many pages of waivers do you have to sign before going onto the field in case you might get conked by a ball?


zero. I think you get to go on the field in a little fenced in area in the infield where it is physically impossible for a ball to come your way because of the cage around the hitter.
   34. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4411115)
I think nowadays the gates are opening right near end of the home team's BP, or even after.

Is that before the visitors' BP?
   35. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4411117)
yes

I may be wrong but I think the sequence (in Boston at least) is roughly:

4:30-5:15 home BP
5:00-gates open
5:15-6:00 visitor BP
7:05 game starts
   36. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4411119)
I just talked to my union guys. At Verizon Center, which the concessions are run by Levy which also handles Nationals Park, the catering department employees get paid $22 an hour and if the day is just a single event day they work about 7 to 7.5 hours and they do get benefits.
   37. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4411120)
Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front). Now tipping. Guess I've come down in the world.
   38. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4411121)

It's a good thing lawyers hadn't been invented back when overflow crowds were allowed to stand and sit just outside the foul lines and right behind the coaches' boxes, sometimes up to more than 10,000 over the official seating capacity. I wonder what sort of premium the Braves would charge for that sort of view nowadays?


More like it's a good thing we weren't so litigous back when they didn't have a screen behind homeplate.
   39. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4411122)
Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front). Now tipping. Guess I've come down in the world.

The thread starter didn't entitle this Calcaterra: The Class System and the Ballpark.
   40. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4411124)
Of course if they really wanted to replicate the true BP experience of BITD, they'd stuff the inescapable music and let the fans enjoy the unalloyed sound of the crack of the bat echo all around the park. That's one of the many reasons that the ballpark experience back then was a whole lot better than it is today, in spite of all the designer food options brought to your seat via your smartphone.

What possibly could have driven teams to move back gate opening time until batting practice was half or more over? Why do people and entities insist on taking things that are not only not broken, but are affirmatively fantastic, and ruin them? Ridiculous.



   41. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4411131)

What possibly could have driven teams to move back gate opening time until batting practice was half or more over?


Cost of labor and more labor needed?
   42. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4411137)
zero. I think you get to go on the field in a little fenced in area in the infield where it is physically impossible for a ball to come your way because of the cage around the hitter.


Yes, this is what they do.

The Stros link brings up no available BP tickets. Maybe they're just for the players?


They also have to put money in the vending machines.

Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front). Now tipping. Guess I've come down in the world.


Relax, we're only the first page. Plenty of pages to go.
   43. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4411139)
Cost of labor and more labor needed?

Like I said ... ridiculous.
   44. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 11, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4411159)
Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front).


Osprey has released a new book on the Petlyakov Pe-2, called Pe-2 Guards Units of World War 2. It's really good, covering both the development of the aircraft, and its use as a bomber and reconnaissance aircraft. It's a subject that's not been covered much in the the western press, and the Pe-2 was a very important aircraft on the Soviet side, so it's worth reading. Fun fact - Vladimir Petlyakov designed the Pe-2 while imprisoned in a Soviet Gulag Sharashka on trumped up charges. Because the Pe-2 was such a good aircraft, he was released from prison as a reward...
   45. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: April 11, 2013 at 07:15 PM (#4411200)
I still don't understand what was stupid/offensive/noticeably greedy about the Twins' $15 plan.


The team thinks, thus the outrage. It gave fans something else to complain about.
   46. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4411204)
I would say it was poorly presented which is probably why it got pulled. You read the headline, which is what the majority of people only do, and it looks like the only way you would get to see batting practice would be by spending an extra $15. The Twins in reality were offering an extra level of service for a fee and the common fan if he chose to not pay it would be deprived of no services that he already gets and expects.
   47. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: April 11, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4411252)
I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that there are people at ballparks haning over hot dogs making more than I do. And my job requires skills with geometry and physics. WTF
   48. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 11, 2013 at 09:43 PM (#4411304)
Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front).


That job was filled by John Sickels over the winter, Craig.
   49. spycake Posted: April 11, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4411344)
I don't think early admission for BP would really be an upper crust luxury thing. It sounds like something for someone who either wanted to explore the park, was an autograph hound, was a baseball groupie, had tickets in a standing room section and wanted to claim the best standing spot before the game, or who was a really fanatic for the game and wanted to see batting practice.

I also don't see why this offer would offend the Twins fanbase.

Well, first of all, the early access was going to be restricted to the right field bleachers for BP home run balls. (I think it didn't even include center or left field.) So no exploring the stadium or claiming prime standing room spots (not that those are hard to come by in Minnesota right now, even announced attendance is dropping near 50% of capacity). This is strictly $15 per person to try to get BP HR balls, and with no Jim Thome, I'm not sure enough balls would reach the RF bleachers to satisfy more than a couple fans.

And they didn't even offer access to the full hour of Twins BP for this price, just a "majority" of it. Want to take two kids? That's $45, or $1 per minute of Twins BP, on top of whatever you were already paying for tickets, parking, concessions, etc. And the Twins wanted to sell these limited BP tickets first-come, first-serve on the day of the game, so you couldn't really plan around it -- you were just going to have to show up ~1 hour before gates opened and hope you'd get the privilege to buy them, or else you get to wait around for an hour outside the stadium -- not fun with kids in 40 degree weather either.

Also, aside from the lousy records the past two years, fans have been getting the shaft here lately. Twins games used to be one of the more affordable in the league, and while costs were bound to go up with the new stadium, the average ticket price has jumped up near the top of the league, even as the team sucks, attendance is falling, and payroll is dropping down close to Metrodome-era levels. Meanwhile, they've created a dizzying array of pricing tiers for different games and instituted demand pricing to squeeze as much money as they can out of what dwindling demand is left. The cheapest beer price jumped this year and I read is the fourth-highest in the league. They've dramatically reduced the quantity and quality of giveaway promotions. In 2011, they also discontinued offering any of their games on free over-the-air TV, so they could pull a few more bucks from Fox Sports (previously, they offered at least one game a week on free TV).

Season ticket holders are taking it particularly hard. There are basically no worthwhile perks for being a season ticket holder here -- in the cheapest seats, you save $1 per game over face value but you're paying 2x or more than street value. They even cut season ticket holder priority for their crappy promotional giveaways. The biggest advertised perks for season ticket holders this year? Vague promises of 2014 All-Star Game priority and a 10% discount on concessions, which only seems to highlight how overpriced the concessions are to begin with. Really, season ticket holders should be getting this free extra access to Twins BP. It's so blindingly obvious that I'm kinda disappointed the team can't see that. (Or at least give the perk to "Twins Territory" fan club members, like "Red Sox Nation" folks get early admission to Fenway.)

And to top it off, they completely botched the delivery. They tried to justify it by saying that other teams around the league are doing this, when in reality no other team is doing this -- Cincinnati is the only team I'm aware of that charges extra to simply see BP from the outfield seats, but at least they have the decency to bundle it with a stadium tour and a museum ticket, and you can buy those tickets in advance. Boston -- a much more in-demand ticket, recent non-sellout notwithstanding -- charges $15 per YEAR for similar access (Red Sox Nation membership). Seattle, San Diego, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Washington offer this access for free to all ticketholders. The Pirates and the Dodgers offer it free to all season ticket holders.

Yeah, it's an extra service, and no one is forced to pay for it, but if you're going to offer it, offer it right.

/rant
   50. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:14 PM (#4411362)
Thanks for the explanation. I can see how in that context an otherwise mostly innocuous thing could trigger a backlash.
   51. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4411369)
Twins games used to be one of the more affordable in the league, and while costs were bound to go up with the new stadium, the average ticket price has jumped up near the top of the league, even as the team sucks, attendance is falling, and payroll is dropping down close to Metrodome-era levels. Meanwhile, they've created a dizzying array of pricing tiers for different games and instituted demand pricing to squeeze as much money as they can out of what dwindling demand is left.

In this day and age almost nobody should be complaining about ticket prices and almost nobody should be buying tickets from the team.

According to SeatGeak the first game to have their cheapest tickets priced about 20 dollars is the Friday, May 17th game against Boston at $21. The next 18 home games are priced between $6 to $17 and even when school is out and the demand for tickets are up there still 37 games or with the cheapest tickets priced below 20 dollars.
   52. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4411376)
Used to be my posts led to discussions of WWII (specifically the eastern front). Now tipping. Guess I've come down in the world.

The thread starter didn't entitle this Calcaterra: The Class System and the Ballpark.

I'll remember next time! :)
   53. Poster Nutbag Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:11 AM (#4411465)
RANT WARNING


I deal with the same union that works in Verizon and Nats Park. So I'm pretty sure. I also know that even if I'm wrong about them being classified as non-tipped employees the tipped employee classification gets paid over $10 an hour. A very specific set of job classifications get classified as tipped. If anything they probably fall into the busboy type classifcation and get paid somewhere between 12 to 15 dollars an hour...


Just wow. This is up there as one of the most arrogant and ignorant things I have ever read here. Honestly. Sorry if I am jumping in late, but this just left me stunned. Nothing personal, as it's the comment I find appalling, I'm sure you're a decent person and all.

Seems to me that the differences from state to state are being overlooked here in regards to the silly notions pertaining to classification of "tipped" and "non-tipped" employees and how much you are so sure they make.....maybe it works differently then just the way those two companies operate? I sure as #### know it works a lot differently around here. (I have never depended on tips, either. I DO work with TONS of data daily that would quickly refute this though....)

Besides, WTF ever happened to a little class??? Tip. Even Jack Benny would give SOMETHING....

END RANT

   54. spycake Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:28 AM (#4411507)
In this day and age almost nobody should be complaining about ticket prices and almost nobody should be buying tickets from the team.

No doubt. I simply meant that the number of new pricing tiers and pseudo-demand-based pricing (with a team-set minimum price but no maximum) are turning off a lot of casual fans.

But I mostly meant my rant in regards to season ticket holders -- the Twins are really taking them for granted right now. The season ticket discount from face value is slight, and since the move to the new stadium, the Twins creativity and customer service overall have really evaporated. I know a couple partial season ticket holders who are literally only holding on at this point because of the 2014 All-Star Game. I'm guessing the Twins think they can turn it around on the field by then and get back to good times at Target Field -- if they can't, I sense they will be forced into a harsh correction after 2014 to win fans back.

There may also be a correction for us fans using SeatGeek. When enough people quit buying from the team, won't the secondary market tighten up a bit? Is it possible the team is already liquidating tickets on StubHub? It would be fascinating to analyze all the tickets sold/distributed for a game, to see where they are going and at what price.
   55. spycake Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:30 AM (#4411508)
And whatever a fan's complaint with this Twins botched offering, it's not really about any class system.

Also, sorry to bring up tipping.
   56. McCoy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:42 AM (#4411514)
Just wow. This is up there as one of the most arrogant and ignorant things I have ever read here. Honestly. Sorry if I am jumping in late, but this just left me stunned. Nothing personal, as it's the comment I find appalling, I'm sure you're a decent person and all.

Seems to me that the differences from state to state are being overlooked here in regards to the silly notions pertaining to classification of "tipped" and "non-tipped" employees and how much you are so sure they make.....maybe it works differently then just the way those two companies operate? I sure as #### know it works a lot differently around here. (I have never depended on tips, either. I DO work with TONS of data daily that would quickly refute this though....)

Besides, WTF ever happened to a little class??? Tip. Even Jack Benny would give SOMETHING....


I don't know how to respond because I have no idea what any of this means.
   57. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:48 AM (#4411565)
I don't know how to respond because I have no idea what any of this means.

It means your rants about ushers being overpaid and your refusal to tip and your justifications of your refusal to tip, are classless.
   58. McCoy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4411577)
Why?
   59. Pingu Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4412731)
Because you tip for service in this setting and most others.

If you dont, you're cheap or an #######. Or both.
   60. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4412765)
How much do you think somebody who simply drops a bag off at your seat should make?

It is an absolute no-skill job that requires no intelligence, no education, no social skills, virtually nothing is needed out of the human being besides being able to walk with a bag. And for that they get paid a wage above minimum wage and get benefits. I'd classify anything above lick spittle as a very good salary for jobs like these.


Maybe if you tip them they'll wipe your ####### ass for you, #######.
   61. McCoy Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4412790)
Because you tip for service in this setting and most others.

If you dont, you're cheap or an #######. Or both.


Why? If you want to tip knock yourself but why are you declaring others must do the same? Traditionally you tipped people because they were paid a wage that factored in a tip. It was a nice trade off. You didn't have to stand in line to get your food or clean your table before you sat down and because you tipped and the employer didn't have to pay their full wage they could put more workers on the floor to provide better service. Nowadays simply because people want a tip they are now expected to get a tip and you guppy fishes have bought it hook, line and sinker. These workers do not get paid a wage as if they were getting a tip and what's more the employer is charging you for the service unlike in the old days.

You guys tip your mailman a dollar every time he delivers your mail? You tip the guy at Burger King for making your sandwich? Do you guys tip the hot dog guy at the ballpark kiosk?

Some food runner at Nationals Park running your food gets paid rather well to do it and doesn't need you declaring people who don't give him a tip to be evil human beings.

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