Kalish looked good today - shouldn't this move have been made about three weeks ago? Watching Patterson, Bill Hall and Mike F. Cameron #### and fumble their way around the outfield has been painful to say the least...

I think it was Abraham who wrote that the Red Sox were considering keeping Patterson when Lowell came back. I don't see how that it possible. Patterson is awful at the plate, I don't care how many positions he can play.

With Cameron back, Kalish able to play center, and the team's insistence that Bill Hall can and will play the outfield and infield, I don't see the point in keeping Patterson. Patterson's not good in the field either.

The larger point is...it's looking unlikely that the Red Sox make the playoffs at this point*, so it makes sense to get Kalish the major league exposure even if he isn't the best option (which he may well be).

*Obviously, 5.5 games isn't insurmountable, and players are starting to return from injury, but we're into August now and the Yankees and Rays are still looking as strong as ever.

Kalish looked good today - shouldn't this move have been made about three weeks ago

I don't think so. If he was called up to replace Drew for a week, that's one thing, but having him play LF and Nava languish in Pawtucket doesn't make any sense to me. His value above Nava is the he can also play CF, but Cameron's there, McD's there, Ellsbury's back in a week. That's more than enough depth; I'd rather have Nava's bat up.

I figured that part of the reason Kalish got called up instead of Nava was Drew's injury status. If Drew has to miss games regularly as he rehabs, the Sox don't want Nava patrolling Fenway RF.

EDIT: Kalish has played well at AA/AAA, but his MLE is still just in the range of a 750 OPS. Unless he plays CF, he's not ready to be that much of a major league regular. I'm very hopeful that he'll be a good MLB right fielder in 2012 - all Kalish needs to do is add power, and his swing looks to me like it's got good projection.

Yeah, I figured as much about Drew too. But with Pawtuck, they've been playing Nava in RF, so he can't be that bad, or even bad, and I'd still prefer his bat.

I guess I just have to watch him play a few games. There are a few that believe he's a terrible OFer, but scouting reports don't suggest that, and his RF/G is too small a sample to believe in, so I can't go on that. Gotta see him live.

Well, there ya go. Cameron's out for the 2nd game in a row so there's a problem there. I wonder if he's DL'd to make room for Ellsbury next week.

The larger point is...it's looking unlikely that the Red Sox make the playoffs at this point*, so it makes sense to get Kalish the major league exposure even if he isn't the best option (which he may well be).

There's also the fact that he gives the ML team a much better chance to win games right now Hermida, who was an ill-conceived idea. And speaking of bad ideas, why had the team insisted on continuing to play a horrible Mike Cameron all year. DL him and trade nothing for Austin Kearns or bring up Nava earlier or or or....

This team really does some weird stuff sometimes. They should really take another look at their medical decision-making process this offseason. They are never, ever right about how long players will be out and they often allow injured players to play very badly for long stretches (or important games).

They are never, ever right about how long players will be out and they often allow injured players to play very badly for long stretches (or important games).

And when Ellsbury wants nothing to do with that mess, he gets called 'soft'.

I'm curious why Red Sox fans seem to detest Billy Hall. It seems as though he's having a perfectly fine year for a backup player, hitting around average and fielding around average. Now, I saw the game yesterday where he made 2 outs on the bases so I realize that his penchant for inexplicable baserunning decisions has apparently not lessened but I wouldn't think that he could have made enough of those to make him have negative value.

I don't hate Hall at all. He's pretty much as you characterized him.

They are never, ever right about how long players will be out

Hermida broke 5 ribs and was out 44 days
Ellsbury broke 5 ribs and is still out, 69 days later

Don't those two examples answer both your and Sams questions?

They should really take another look at their medical decision-making process

Either that or just find a way to protect their players from breaking bones.

Got milk?

I also don't hate Hall, he's a perfectly serviceable backup.

Hermida's got some service time so he costs more, but is 171 plate appearances really enough to evaluate him?

I thought Hermida was going to be a decent pick up for the Sox. Shows what I know.

I really like Hall. He looks bad in the field sometimes, but he also makes some good plays, and numbers have him about average. At the plate, he walks a bit and has some pop, though his average sucks so his OBP and SLG aren''t anything special.

But as a backup who can and will play anywhere on the field, that's wonderful. It's been a bit rough seeing him play almost everyday, because he's definitely not an everyday guy at this point. but I'd love to see the Sox re-sign him to a reasonable deal to be a part of the bench.

Hermida just didn't have any room on this team anymore. At the start of the year he was a good guy to put into the OF mix, but with the development of Nava and Kalish he just doesn't have a use for the Sox IMO (and they seem to agree with this). However it will be interesting to see how he does playing everyday in Pawtucket after he clears waivers (assuming he accepts the assignment).

Count me as another huge Bill Hall fan. Of course, that doesn't explain the presence of Patterson, who is made completely redundant by the presence of Hall + anyone else who can either hit OR field. He's simply a terrible hitter, and to echo the sentiment from [2] (and add a word), I don't care how many positions he can play poorly. The fact that he played a single inning in CF for this team is ludicrous.

And re [13], I fractured one rib when I was 26 and I couldn't run, stretch or breathe deeply for a month. Even with top-flight athletic medicine/rehab, there's simply very little you can do with broken ribs but wait for them to heal on their own.

What's wrong with Hermida? I thought he was good.

Not sure they've necessarily given up on Hermida. I suspect he'll clear waivers, and he'll get a months worth of at bats in Pawtucket and they can re-evaluate. If not and he gets claimed, well that's not like you're losing a future franchise player either.

If Hermida hits and you get back in the playoff picture, clear a spot and add him back to the roster for bench depth. If he continues to struggle, then you've got your answer.

Hermida's a butcher in the field, a clear negative defender. Nava wasn't great but didn't seem nearly as bad as Hermida. If Kalish can hit as well as Nava while fielding well, he's clearly their best option at least till Ellsbury's back.

I'm curious why Red Sox fans seem to detest Billy Hall.

I don't. Where have you seen that they do? As far as I'm concerned he should win the 10th Player Award.

I don't. Where have you seen that they do?

I just saw a bunch of tweets about it the other day (perhaps incited by Bill Simmons' article from last week which included multiple digs at Hall as the symbol of what ails the Sox this year?). Then the first couple posts in this thread seemed to be anti-Hall (though perhaps I read too much into those) so I was just curious.

I just saw a bunch of tweets about it the other day

Those may have been in the heat in the moment following a mistake, I wouldn't read too much into it...

IMO, in this year, Bill Hall has been Jesus F'ing Christ in cleats. Someone who can play 7 positions without complaint and be about average at all of them is valuable anyway, and can be the 300 person lifeboat when the Titanic is sinking.

I hated the Hall pickup but he has been fine. He's frustrating at times but as a guy who realistically is the 24/25th man on the roster he has been very good. I'd prefer he wasn't on his way to over 300 AB but that's not his fault.

Someone who can play 7 positions without complaint and be about average at all of them is valuable anyway

Don't forget that shutdown inning he pitched.

perhaps incited by Bill Simmons' article from last week which included multiple digs at Hall as the symbol of what ails the Sox this year

Well there's your problem right there.

Hall is fine. No one I know hates him. He is what he is.

Simmons should stick to the NBA. He's CHB-lite on baseball.

Don't forget that shutdown inning he pitched.

88.1 mph average on his fastball. Not bad. And apparently a 100% GB rate and 0.00 K, BB, and HR per 9 numbers will net you a 3.11 FIP and xFIP. That would be one fun pitcher to watch.

Of course, that doesn't explain the presence of Patterson, who is made completely redundant by the presence of Hall + anyone else who can either hit OR field. He's simply a terrible hitter, and to echo the sentiment from [2] (and add a word), I don't care how many positions he can play poorly.

I think Patterson's a reasonable guy to have on a big league bench. Over the last two years he's hit 239/310/420, good for a 94 OPS+ in almost 300 PA. His MLE in 2008 was 278/311/425, 264/318/410 in 2009. He's 22 for 25 on the bases in the majors and was 43 for 49 at AAA in 110 games in 2009. After 2006 Goldstein ranked him 4th on the Cubs, a "Good" prospect (what he now calls three stars), saying:

Athletic second baseman with leadoff tools and skills, hitting for average, drawing walks, and utilizing his plus-plus speed on the base paths. Fundamentally sound defender with dependable hands and arm. Struggles against good lefties; not especially rangy at second base due to a slow first step; needs to focus on making contact as opposed to trying to muscle every pitch.

His UZR numbers are pretty bad and he's not going to be a regular for Boston, but I still think he's got enough speed, pop, and versatility to be a solid bench player on a good team. I suspect he'll survive Ellsbury's return, with Nava getting optioned back. His spot would be in danger if Pedroia comes back before rosters expand, but Lowrie has options and Patterson and McDonald don't, so they might stash him in Pawtucket for a couple weeks. Jed wouldn't be playing much behind a healthy starting infield anyway and Patterson would be a nice piece to keep going forward with Hall a free agent after the season.