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Thursday, October 05, 2017

Heyman | Braves front office of Schuerholz and Hart at odds

People with ties to the team say they believe Schuerholz would love to bring in Dayton Moore, and have Moore, a longtime Braves executive before he went to Kansas City, groom Schuerholz’s son Jonathan, who runs the farm system for the Braves.

I am as certain of this happening - Dayton Moore replaces John Hart, John Schuerholz Jr is promoted up from farm director to be “groomed” for the GM position - as I was that Fredi Gonzalez would replace Bobby Cox.

 

Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 12:54 PM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, bravesway, front office, kremlinology

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   1. Bote Man Posted: October 05, 2017 at 01:55 PM (#5545181)
John Hart:
I'll shoot you 18 holes for ten thousand bucks!
   2. No longer interested in this website Posted: October 05, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5545213)
Article says the Braves would like Jonathan Schuerholz to be groomed as a future GM.

The Braves drafted the younger Schuerholz as a "favor" pick by the Braves twice. He was in their system in 2004 when the Braves were scheduled to play in the Hall of Fame Game in Cooperstown, the last regular season exhibition game allowed by the collective bargaining agreement. They called Schuerholz up from Class A to play in that game and he produced a walkoff hit, one of his four hits in the game. I remember how excited he was after that walkoff hit at Doubleday Field. Probably the highlight of his playing career.
   3. bfan Posted: October 05, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5545247)
I love my children too, but I will not force them upon my co-workers.

I would be shocked if JS can force his child on public shareholders. If the kid is that good, then he can stand on his own (as he did in his playing career and his managerial career...not!) and get a GM job at another organization.
   4. dog poop god Posted: October 05, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5545249)
Nepotism always leads to terrfic results.
   5. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 05, 2017 at 02:43 PM (#5545260)
A good opportunity to share my favorite anti-nepotism story (from Bill James' NHBA):

In 1940 [Kiki] Cuyler was managing in the minor leagues. His son, Harold, had been offered a chance to play for a minor league team. Kiki knew that Harold couldn't play, and wanted to spare him the experience of finding this out the hard way. Harold insisted he could play, so finally Kiki told him, "Look, son, I had to leave the major leagues because my legs have gone back on me, and that's why I'm through as a player. But I'll race you a hundred yards. If you beat me, I'll say it's all right for you to go ahead. But if I beat you, you'll give it up." Harold agreed to the deal, Kiki beat him by fifteen yards, and Harold gave up on the idea of being a baseball player.
   6. wjones Posted: October 05, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5545266)
Well between JS getting in the HOF, and Selig blowing all that smoke up his ass in his induction speech, Old John is feeling his oats pretty good now. I love the fact that one man who was 'retired' from the day-to-day operations of the team is having control issues with acting GM who's contract hasn't been renewed yet. Oh, and one more thing. Don't you actually have to OWN the company to pass control to your heirs?
   7. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5545279)
Oh, and one more thing. Don't you actually have to OWN the company to pass control to your heirs?


Not at all. Nepotism is very common everywhere, always has been, always will be.
   8. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5545281)
Not at all. Nepotism is very common everywhere, always has been, always will be.

Yeah I worked in a giant publicly traded company with offices in 10 or so countries around the world and 30-whatever states, and there were plenty of lower level people who you would randomly discover were the children of various VPs and Principals and such. Currently work in a public agency and there's a bit of that, too, though on a much smaller scale. Seems inescapable.
   9. Rally Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5545285)
The chief executive in charge of the place I work brought his daughter and son in law into high level positions...never mind, I better save that one for the OTP thread.
   10. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5545287)
"Lower level" is not "control" passed on to heirs.
   11. dog poop god Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5545294)
The Braves lost me when they dealt their second-best player for loose change in Arte Moreno's sofa.
   12. bfan Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5545301)
Oh, and one more thing. Don't you actually have to OWN the company to pass control to your heirs?


If what people have said about the hands-off attitude that Liberty Media takes ("Um, Mr. Schuerholtz, is your son any good? He is? Okay great, go ahead and hire him."), then, no, you do not have to own the company.
   13. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5545326)
"Lower level" is not "control" passed on to heirs.

Yes this is totally fair- this thing being reported is obviously much worse than what I was talking about.
   14. QLE Posted: October 05, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5545330)
Currently work in a public agency and there's a bit of that, too, though on a much smaller scale. Seems inescapable.


And, of course, there's the fact that a good hunk of nepotistic practices don't necessarily involve people who are directly related- I'm in a field where a lot of the issues aren't the result of people's kids getting hired (though hiring people's spouses is often an issue), but people from the same school, or people who otherwise have connections with those engaging in the hiring.
   15. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5545360)
Way back in the early 2000's, I mean, long, long ago, back when Szymborski was actually speaking to me, he had some reason to come to Atlanta. He crashed at my apartment for a night or two. He, myself, Colin, and Alan all went up to Rome for a class A game that weekend. Seem to recall there as a new hot-#### prospect named Francoeur playing that season. It was definitely the year John Schuerholz, Jr was at Rome. Because at least three of us (me, Colin, Alan) sat up the first base line serenading him with chants of "Little Johnny Nepotism" all game long, to the dismay of the families around us. It was super fun. And mean.

Anyway, JSJr quite clearly had no business being drafted into even the low minors. He was a marginal infield talent at Auburn with no projectable MLB level skills. The fact that he was was entirely due to his name. And everyone, including him, knew it. Sure, he thought maybe he had an outside shot at Stubby Clapping his way into a "gritty gamer" backup role, but I doubt even he believed it. What he did have was a baseball pedigree (he spent his entire childhood around the game,) a love of the game, and a willingness to learn anything from anyone. When it became apparent that he would never been a MLB player, he immediately took the lowest level positions available in the minor league system and started to work at learning to be a manager.

Now, I have no idea if he will ever be a good manager, or even a good GM. And every charge of nepotism levied at him is more or less deserved. I'm absolutely certain there was a more talented guy with no family connections who could have been Mr. Irrelevant in that year's draft. But all that said, he's done nothing but the right things since then, as far as I can tell. He's toiled relentlessly on the farms, as a player, as an instructor, and now as the farm system director. He's working, as far as I can tell, as cleanly and discretely as possible, through every stage of the 'management' development cycle. And he honestly believes in his dad's "Braves Way" schtick.

I don't know, or expect even, that he will lead the team back to the glories of the 1990s. But unless you have a better suggestion for what this franchise should do OTHER than throw buckets of money at Dayton Moore and work with JSJr to become some fascimile of his dad, I don't really need to hear you complain about this either.
   16. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:04 PM (#5545362)
Oh, also, as far as the BRAVES are concerned, yes. It's John Schuerholz's club. LIBERTY DOES NOT CARE.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5545371)
And, of course, there's the fact that a good hunk of nepotistic practices don't necessarily involve people who are directly related- I'm in a field where a lot of the issues aren't the result of people's kids getting hired (though hiring people's spouses is often an issue), but people from the same school, or people who otherwise have connections with those engaging in the hiring.


There's a word for this - networking - and if you've ever had to hire a lot of people, you understand why it exists.
   18. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5545396)
But unless you have a better suggestion for what this franchise should do OTHER than throw buckets of money at Dayton Moore and work with JSJr to become some fascimile of his dad, I don't really need to hear you complain about this either.

You honestly had me nodding along until this point. Ummm, interview and hire some other highly regarded staff from other successful organizations? That seems like a very easy answer, frankly.

(Am I missing a joke?)
   19. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5545410)
You honestly had me nodding along until this point. Ummm, interview and hire some other highly regarded staff from other successful organizations? That seems like a very easy answer, frankly.


As I understand it, Dayton Moore *is* highly regarded staff from another successful organization. I mean, I know he's not super highly regarded by the saber-crowd, but he *did* take the sad-sack Royals and deliver back to back WS appearances including one WS championship. In the last three years. On a budget. I mean, yeah, if Theo is available, ring him up. But I don't think Theo's available.
   20. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5545434)
We were both clearly still discussing Junior Schuerholz, not Dayton Moore.
   21. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5545439)
Okay. Let me clarify. I do not think JSJr should be given the GM keys immediately upon the hiring of Moore. I think the Braves should hire Moore, let him hire his own GM, and let JSJr continue to train and advance toward a Special Assistant role, or whatever it is they want to call it, as he continues to chase his dream of following his father's footsteps. Further, I have absolutely zero idea as to how close, or far away, Little Johnny Nepotism is from being "ready" for that special assistant role, and thus his distance from being ready to be a GM in training, proper. I do, however, believe Dayton Moore would be fully engaged in the team and franchise's short and long term success, which John Hart was apparently less than doing. So IF Moore tapped JSJr to be part of his inner circle immediately, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he was not torpedoing his own success in order to make Old Man John happy about The Boy.

My post @15 was more to put some breaks on the natural, and not completely undeserved, kneecapping of JSJr as a nepotism hire. He was ABSOLUTELY a nepotism DRAFTEE. But his work and career in the organization since washing out as a player has been exemplary on its own merits, I think. And while I'm as opposed to every Don Trump, Jr on the planet as the next guy, I think we should at least acknowledge when the legacy hires come in and actually put in the work like a mere commoner, too.
   22. bfan Posted: October 05, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5545463)
My point on the son is that if he is that good, someone else should hire him as a GM. Let him prove himself in that manner.

He has benefitted by nepotism favoritism to get an opportunity to train and have exposure in an area that many, many people would covet. Let that be his dad's gift to him; that leg up should be enough.

I think this is a favor to him, as well. If he gets the Braves job, he will never shake the allegations that he got the gig because of his dad.
   23. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 05, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5545474)
I don't disagree with anything @22.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: October 05, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5545503)
Let's not forget that the title "GM" generally ain't what it used to be. These days it's usually the PBO (or some other exalted title) that is running the show. Sometimes that guy also holds the title "GM" but sometimes not. I doubt Moore would come in to be an old-style PBO, he'd be coming in to run the team. JSjr might then be GM but that would be more similar to the old asst GM role.
   25. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 05, 2017 at 05:53 PM (#5545513)
There's a word for this - networking - and if you've ever had to hire a lot of people, you understand why it exists.


Yeah, this is correct. Networking is a different animal from nepotism; they're similar in that hiring your friends' friends is partly a way of rewarding your friends for their friendship, but different in that hiring your friends' friends is also a rational effort at efficiency (asking, "do the people I trust trust this person?" requires much less time and effort than trying to ascertain for yourself whether you should trust this person).

The custom of hiring mostly through networking has some unfortunate results, but the practice has a rational motivation for company as well as executive. Nepotism, on the other hand, is basically a de facto part of an executive's own compensation package ("I get to do this job for $X, and my son/sister/nephew/brother-in-law also gets to unconditionally have this position for $Y irrespective of whether they can actually perform the duties"). Happens in sports as well as in business.
   26. DL from MN Posted: October 05, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5545515)
Andy McPhail was that good, and somebody else hired him.
   27. Colin Posted: October 05, 2017 at 07:54 PM (#5545567)
That Rome Braves team referenced by Rickey (2003) did indeed feature Francoeur and also Brian McCann, (I recall Alan saying at the game he was more excited about McCann as a prospect).
   28. Zach Posted: October 05, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5545573)
I can see why Moore might want to go to Atlanta -- KC is losing a lot of talent this year and facing a long rebuild. But I don't see why he would agree to groom Schuerholz's kid as part of the deal.

He's been in KC since 2006, hired or extended everybody in the organization, won a World Series, and can expect to keep the job as long as he wants it. Why would you give that up to be a temporary fill in between one Schuerholz and another?
   29. PreservedFish Posted: October 05, 2017 at 09:02 PM (#5545603)
Because when JSJr takes over, Moore gets bumped up to the well-compensated John Hart President Emeritus / Golfing Pro role.
   30. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: October 05, 2017 at 11:59 PM (#5545763)
The chief executive in charge of the place I work brought his daughter and son in law into high level positions...never mind, I better save that one for the OTP thread.

You work for Vince McMahon?
   31. Walt Davis Posted: October 06, 2017 at 12:18 AM (#5545774)
But I don't see why he would agree to groom Schuerholz's kid as part of the deal.

Schuerholz groomed Moore and I'm sure rec'd him for the KC job. When the man who groomed you asks you to groom his son, you usually say yes and/or make a TV movie of the week about it. Based on the Wiki page, he would have been dir of player personnel development when Jr was drafted in 2002. He probably knew Jr as a kid.

I had never realized until checking his b-r page now that the Braves had drafted Jr twice. I remembered the garbage time pick (37th round) but he didn't sign (the ingrate!) and went to college, then they spent an 8th round pick on him. I know, by round 8 there's usually little potential MLB talent but you're still hoping to get somebody who will at least be a decent A/AA player and has an outside shot. That's not a cute nepotism pick. The three players drafted immediately after Jr all made the majors -- Brad Halsey (0 WAR), Clay Hensley (3.6) and Jared Burton (4.4), all pitchers. Four more players who made the majors -- to no effect other than the Adam Greenberg story -- were drafted before the Braves picked again.

Brandon Moss and Adam Lind were also drafted in that 8th round, before Jr, although Lind did not sign.
   32. stevegamer Posted: October 06, 2017 at 02:40 AM (#5545788)
And, of course, there's the fact that a good hunk of nepotistic practices don't necessarily involve people who are directly related- I'm in a field where a lot of the issues aren't the result of people's kids getting hired (though hiring people's spouses is often an issue), but people from the same school, or people who otherwise have connections with those engaging in the hiring.

here's a word for this - networking - and if you've ever had to hire a lot of people, you understand why it exists.


It can be networking, but it's also often a very flawed practice that is generated from similar belief to nepotism. When I was interviewing around during senior year of college, I was looking at openings, but in general, I was having trouble getting interviews as I was coming from temple University for some of the things I was interested in. Some of the firms would interview at Temple, but not for certain jobs, where they were looking for the "right type" of person for that job. If my resume & cover letter were good enough, I could get an interview off campus, and actually ended up being slotted for an interview near or perhaps on Penn's campus once, might have been Drexel as well - there are next to each other in the University City section of Philadelphia. I also had another interview on campus with the same firm for a different position on campus.

I found that odd, and asked at the end of the off campus interview if the interview results would go to the company, and if I should cancel my interview at Temple, and they said no, and that they were surprised to have me there, due to the fact they were looking for people with the right background, and that I ended up at Temple despite my obviously elite prep background. I realized once again the classism going on in that they were looking for people who fit the demographics of the company already - which I soon found out had some hiring practice issues. That interview was the last time anyone assumed I was African-American before meeting me, and yes, they told me that.
   33. Bote Man Posted: October 06, 2017 at 04:10 AM (#5545792)
When the man who groomed you asks you to groom his son, you usually say yes

I'm sure there's a Great Clips or regular old barber shop nearby to handle that.

Anyway, I take comfort in the expectation that the Braves front office will be in disarray for the foreseeable future, so that's one less team in the NL East for the Nationals to worry about.
   34. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 06, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5545904)
Schuerholz groomed Moore and I'm sure rec'd him for the KC job. When the man who groomed you asks you to groom his son, you usually say yes and/or make a TV movie of the week about it.


We probably shouldn't undersell the relationship between JS and Kansas City either. He was the GM for the Royals before the Braves hired him in 1991. And he sent his protege Moore to his old stomping grounds when the Braves hired Wren instead.
   35. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 06, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5545908)
Anyway, I take comfort in the expectation that the Braves front office will be in disarray for the foreseeable future, so that's one less team in the NL East for the Nationals to worry about.


Who are they going to shut down this post-season?
   36. bfan Posted: October 06, 2017 at 12:30 PM (#5545980)
He was the GM for the Royals before the Braves hired him in 1991.


I think the statute of limitations for caring about former employees is 25 years, so this does not matter any more. Seriously, how many of the people in the KC organization now were there in 1991?
   37. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 06, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5545985)
Seriously, how many of the people in the KC organization now were there in 1991?


I don't know. All I know is that the last two GM's to bring WS championships to Kansas City were John Schuerholz and Dayton Moore, and the last GM to bring a WS championship to Atlanta was John Schuerholz. So obviously, hire Dayton Moore people!
   38. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 06, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5545990)
A good opportunity to share my favorite anti-nepotism story (from Bill James' NHBA):

Mine is the all-time inner-circle rant against Marc Sullivan's existence on a major league roster in the 1988 Abstract that reads in part

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but there is nepotism here, and it offends me. The Red Sox in 1979 blew a second-round pick on Marc Sullivan, the son of then-vice president Haywood Sullivan. After young Marckie hit .203 with 1 home run in 117 games in the Eastern League (1982), the Red Sox had the effrontery to dress him up in a major-league uniform and foist him off as a major-league player in two games late the same season. After he went back to the minors and hit .229 and .204, they decided he was ready to play for the major-league team. In 1985 and 1986, as a part-timer, Sullivan hit .174 and .193. In 1987 he opened the season as the Red Sox' regular catcher. We should all find our opportunities so abundant.

What I would like to know is, where the hell does Haywood Sullivan get off trying to make his precious little boy an exception to the rules that the rest of the baseball world obeys? The most basic rule of sports is that in the effort to win, you put the team goals ahead of your personal agenda. The public posture of every major league team is that they expect their players not to play for their own statistics . . . but to do what the good of the team demands. They would be appalled if a player stated publicly that he was playing for himself first and didn't care much whether the Sox won or lost. But Haywood Sullivan wants to add, "Of course, that doesn't apply to me."

And where is the watchdog? What does the press say? They tell us that Marc Sullivan is such a nice kid. Well, who the hell cares if he's a nice kid. Do you have any idea how many nice kids there are in AAA ball? It is not fair to those kids to tell them that Marc Sullivan is playing by a different set of rules than they are. It is not fair to Red Sox fans, and it's not fair to other players.

I call on Peter Ueberroth to intervene and end this disgraceful situation . . . he should tell Haywood to get Marc Sullivan's sorry ass out a Red Sox uniform by sundown.
   39. Zach Posted: October 06, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5546043)
Schuerholz groomed Moore and I'm sure rec'd him for the KC job. When the man who groomed you asks you to groom his son, you usually say yes and/or make a TV movie of the week about it. Based on the Wiki page, he would have been dir of player personnel development when Jr was drafted in 2002. He probably knew Jr as a kid.

That would mean a starter-level position in the KC office for Schuerholz Jr., not Moore going to Atlanta to keep the job warm for him.

If Shuerholz has dynastic ambitions, Moore is the wrong guy to hire. You want an old guy who won't be around for long, or else a young guy with no experience who can't hold onto the job without Shuerholz's backing. Moore is a credible candidate for the big job himself, and would probably object to getting pushed out for somebody else's kid.

In Game of Thrones, Baratheon's big mistake was choosing Ned Stark to be regent. The Starks are powerful enough to keep the throne themselves, which means the other families have to fight them or lose by default.
   40. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 06, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5546084)
In Game of Thrones, Baratheon's big mistake was choosing Ned Stark to be regent. The Starks are powerful enough to keep the throne themselves, which means the other families have to fight them or lose by default.


I thought it was starting a series of wars that murdered hundreds of thousands if not millions because his childhood crush liked someone else.
   41. Zach Posted: October 06, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5546204)
I thought it was starting a series of wars that murdered hundreds of thousands if not millions because his childhood crush liked someone else.

That's just healthy self-actualization. You wouldn't want a king who repressed his desires, would you?
   42. Walt Davis Posted: October 06, 2017 at 08:25 PM (#5546363)
#39: Jr has been in junior-level positions in the Braves org for a long time now -- minor-league manager for 4 seasons, asst director of personnel for 3-4 seasons.

Moore of course would not be going to Atlanta to "keep the job warm for Jr", he would go to Atlanta as PBO and run the entire show. Part of that would be grooming junior FO personnel incl Jr. Whether Jr is ready to be a glorified asst GM called "GM" is a question that nobody here has a freaking clue what the answer is. Generally he would go through Dir of personnel first ... which he very well might.

From the Braves' perspective -- guess what, they need a new GM. Moore is highly qualified to take that role and has a history with the team. They aren't looking for a caretaker, they're looking for a PBO who will turn them into a winning team. Moore is already under contract of course, presumably for good money, so the Braves are going to have to pony up a lot of dough and find some way to compensate the Royals. Moore is probably going to be getting a 5-6 year deal. Nobody's doing that out of nepotism, nobody's going to Moore and saying "the plan is you do this for two years, then Jr takes over."
   43. flournoy Posted: October 06, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5546375)
I'd argue that an account of Robert Baratheon's mistakes would be too lengthy to organize. But I think the only man who could have been appointed as regent and been accepted by Cersei/Joffrey would have been Tywin. (Or maybe Jaime? Hard to say.) I think it's actually an interesting thought exercise to consider what would have happened in that case. Ned still would have supported Stannis' claim to the throne and probably would have been imprisoned for that, but Tywin wouldn't have had him executed.
   44. bookbook Posted: October 06, 2017 at 09:55 PM (#5546572)
Ned Stark’s biggest mistake was supporting Robert Baratheon’s claim to the throne. How could an honorable man do that! For that matter, how did Tywin, the savviest, richest, and most powerful man in Westeros, end up supporting the lesser house of Baratheon, rather than staking his own claim? (Was he so embarrassed by his children that he thought their transgressions were better hidden that way.)

Baseball? Is nepotism better when it involves destroying an unrelated organization? The Mariners under Bavasi didn’t think so.
   45. bookbook Posted: October 06, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5546577)
Ned Stark’s biggest mistake was supporting Robert Baratheon’s claim to the throne. How could an honorable man do that! For that matter, how did Tywin, the savviest, richest, and most powerful man in Westeros, end up supporting the lesser house of Baratheon, rather than staking his own claim? (Was he so embarrassed by his children that he thought their transgressions were better hidden that way.)

Baseball? Is nepotism better when it involves destroying an unrelated organization? The Mariners under Bavasi didn’t think so.
   46. flournoy Posted: October 06, 2017 at 11:16 PM (#5546756)
how did Tywin, the savviest, richest, and most powerful man in Westeros, end up supporting the lesser house of Baratheon, rather than staking his own claim?


He waited until the outcome of the war was inevitable, then took King's Landing to win the war for Robert Baratheon. As a reward for his loyalty, he was able to see that his daughter was to be married to the new king and that he'd be able to act as the puppetmaster behind the Baratheon regime. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal for Tywin.
   47. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 07, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5546918)
Ned Stark’s biggest mistake was supporting Robert Baratheon’s claim to the throne. How could an honorable man do that! For that matter, how did Tywin, the savviest, richest, and most powerful man in Westeros, end up supporting the lesser house of Baratheon, rather than staking his own claim?


Ned supported Robert's Rebellion because 1) the Mad King had quite recently murdered his father and older brother by broiling them alive in their armor, and 2) he fully believed the (false) narrative (from his childhood best friend Robert) that his sister Lyanna had been "kidnapped and raped" by the crown prince. Ned supported Robert's ascension to the thrown AFTER the rebellion because Baratheon had the most legal claim to be next in line, having had a grand-mother who had married in from the Targaryen lines, after all of the direct Targaryen claimants were either dead or in exile.

Tywin supported Baratheon because he knew going to war with the Stormlands and the North would not be wise, and he saw the opportunity to marry Cersei into the bloodline and advance his family that way. He also assumed doing so would bring Jaime out of service in the Kingsguard and return him to his rightful place as heir to The Rock.

It is categorically wrong to refer to the Baratheons as a "lesser house." The Storm Kings were as strong and historically noble as any family in Westeros prior to Robert's death and the ensuing civil war in the house between Renly and Stannis.
   48. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 13, 2017 at 01:00 AM (#5552922)
No specific details, but Ken Rosenthal's sources are saying the violations are 'unprecedented in scope':
The investigation into apparent international signing violations by the Braves has already claimed the jobs of GM John Coppolella and special assistant Gordon Blakely, but the investigation is still ongoing. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic has a lengthy update (subscription required and recommended) on the matter, citing sources that tell him the team’s “violations are unprecedented in scope.”
. . .
Rosenthal emphasizes that commissioner Rob Manfred could potentially also cite lack of “oversight” or “institutional control” over the now-deposed GM. Of course, it’s not as if Coppolella was just a rogue, lower-level employee; he was entrusted with significant decision-making authority and was the face of the front office to the public.
. . .
Per Rosenthal, “a substantial fine, a loss of prospects and restrictions on the Braves’ participation in the international market” are all on the table. The devil here is in the details, of course, as that slate of possible demerits could either be relatively light or rather compelling, depending upon how extensively applied.

Unprecedented violations might call for unprecedented punishments. Need some more precise leaks here.

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NewsblogOTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have 'date with a baseball bat' if he tried dating teens where I grew up
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Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
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NewsblogPeter Gammons: Splashes and notes from the Orlando Winter Meetings - GammonsDaily.com
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NewsblogYankees trade Chase Headley, Bryan Mitchell | MLB.com
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NewsblogJack Morris, Alan Trammell elected to Hall | MLB.com
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NewsblogMLB Now: Billy Beane on strategy | MLB.com
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NewsblogDerek Jeter's defense of Giancarlo Stanton trade was weak | SI.com
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NewsblogThis will be Giancarlo Stanton’s biggest New York adjustment | New York Post
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NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
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NewsblogTampa Bay Rays make another small deal, acquiring INF Ryan Schimpf
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NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
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NewsblogRyan Thibs has his HOF Ballot Tracker Up and Running!
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NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
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Gonfalon CubsLooking to next year
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NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-12-2017
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