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Saturday, December 21, 2013

Heyman: Choo agrees to a seven-year deal with the Rangers

Shin-Soo Choo has a seven-year, $130-million agreement with the Rangers, sources tell CBSSports.com.

Texas has a deal now with its primary target. The Rangers envision Choo has a tablesetter following a year in which he had a .423 on-base percentage with the Reds.

Texas is said to be a real long shot on Masahiro Tanaka now, according to sources.

Choo is known to have had talked with the Reds, his former team, plus the Mariners, Yankees and a few others. The Rangers’ $130-million deal is worth significantly more since Texas has no state income tax.

Choo was always the main target since they visited with him in California few weeks ago, as Texas wanted to improve an offense that took a small step back last year. Choo and earlier addition Prince Fielder should provide the boost the Rangers need as they try to overtake the A’s in what’s become one of the most competitive divisions.

The Choo agreement will mean that Nelson Cruz will have to go elsewhere. Texas always saw its longtime right fielder as a fall-back candidate to defense and a greater need for a top-of-the-ineup star. The Rangers already have Adrian Beltre and Fielder for the middle of their lineup.

Thanks to GY.

Repoz Posted: December 21, 2013 at 01:53 PM | 88 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers

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   1. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4622169)
That's $10 mil over the next seven years he passed up on. Although it sounds like the no state income tax makes it stronger than the Yankee offer.
   2. Jim Wisinski Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4622172)
Plus now he doesn't have to play for the Yankees.
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4622174)
Although it sounds like the no state income tax makes it stronger than the Yankee offer.

Not to mention the benefits of not being forced to spend half of baseball season in New York City.
   4. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4622181)
Although it sounds like the no state income tax makes it stronger than the Yankee offer.

Not to mention the benefits of not being forced to spend half of baseball season in New York City.


Sounds like the league needs to step in and give the Yankees additional funds to compensate for these structural inequities. You know, fairness.
   5. tfbg9 Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4622182)
Who is Choo's agent? First Base!
   6. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4622192)
4 - in all seriousness, I'm not opposed to league efforts to account for tax differences, etc... here. Tricky to do right, though.
   7. madvillain Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4622194)
I guess your opinion on this deal really hinges on if you believe he's at this point an awful corner outfielder or just merely "below average". I'd have to think he's just below average or even average, at least for the next few years. He isn't by any stretch a CF and playing 130 or so games at one of the corner positions should help his value.

Was he battling an injury in 2012 or something? I know UZR is best taken in 3 year samples, but he was bad in RF in 2012 even before the Reds curiously decided to play him in CF.

That said, offensively his value is clear, with ZIPS projecting a 130 wRC+. Last year, even with his awful defense he was credited with 5.2 fWAR. Playing in 150 games and posting a .423 OBP will do that. I bet the Rangers would take an average of 4 WAR over the course of the deal and not think twice.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4622195)
I've no idea whether this is a good deal or not for the Rangers, but it does make them a lot better this coming season. I'm guessing their lineup is something like:

CF Martin
RF Choo
3B Beltre
1B Fielder
LF Rios
DH Moreland/Choice
SS Andrus
2B Profar
C Soto

P Darvish
P Holland
P Perez
P Tepesch
P Harrison/Ogando

RP Feliz
RP Cotts
RHP Soria
LHP Ross

That looks like a pretty formidable team.
   9. madvillain Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4622204)
@8. Yes it does. I wonder if the Mariners were involved in any talks with Choo. Seems like if you're going to go all in, Choo and Cano would be the best way to do so. If they had added another 4 wins on paper, with the 6 from Cano, plus a few more from their developing players you can squint and see a 90 win team.

Seems like a good idea for Choo to return to the AL, at 35 he's going to be a part time fielder at best but if he can still hit say 270/360/440 he'll have value even as a DH.
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4622205)
I guess your opinion on this deal really hinges on if you believe he's at this point an awful corner outfielder or just merely "below average".

Whatever the case, Choo can't be worse than Nelson Cruz unless he decides to start fielding the position barehanded.
   11. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 21, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4622207)


That looks like a pretty formidable team.



Definitely a lot of marquee names. Reminds me of the 1993 Mets.
   12. bookbook Posted: December 21, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4622212)
The Rangers are about two years away from an epic collapse...
   13. puck Posted: December 21, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4622214)
The Rangers are about two years away from an epic collapse...


I wasn't thinking 2 years, but with Fielder, Choo and Andrus locked up through 2020 and beyond, I wondered if the Rangers are going to repeat the A-Rod/Park thing where ownership complains about the high-priced non-producing players. They have lots more money now due but if they have to keep spending on top of those 3 to make up for their decline years, I could see a lot of whining.
   14. Brian White Posted: December 21, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4622217)
I wondered if the Rangers are going to repeat the A-Rod/Park thing where ownership complains about the high-priced non-producing players.


High-priced non-producing players was not an A-Rod/Park thing. It was a Park thing. Or a Park/Juan Gonzalez thing. Or some such.

Edit: Or maybe I misunderstood your post. You mean, some time in the future, the team will be crappy and expensive, and rather than trying to deal with getting rid of expensive, non-producing players, they end up giving away productive ones? I can see that happening.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4622221)

4 - in all seriousness, I'm not opposed to league efforts to account for tax differences, etc... here. Tricky to do right, though.


Should also do something about school districts too. #rockies #mikehampton
   16. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4622230)
New York City.


Yeah, Dallas. What a garden spot.

I would rather spend a million years in New York than an afternoon in Dallas.
   17. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: December 21, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4622236)
Dallas isn't so bad, Then again, I was living in Wichita Falls when I was thinking Dallas wasn't so bad.
   18. ajnrules Posted: December 21, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4622237)
Except the Rangers play in Arlington, Texas, which is a nice "little" city wedge between Dallas and Fort Worth. It would have been nice to see the Rangers make a run for Tanaka. Darvish + Tanaka would have been a dream!
   19. Jim Wisinski Posted: December 21, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4622238)
High-priced non-producing players was not an A-Rod/Park thing. It was a Park thing. Or a Park/Juan Gonzalez thing. Or some such.


A-Rod wasn't non-producing but the front office still made him the scapegoat for their failure to put a decent team on the field around him. Their payrolls were $88 mil, $105 mil, and $103 mil (4th, 3rd, and 2nd in the league respectively) in the time they had Rodriguez, that's more than enough to subtract $25 mil and put a good team on the field when you're got one guy putting up back to back to back 8+ WAR years.
   20. Spivey Posted: December 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4622239)
Dallas sucks. So does Houston. That said, just because NYC is nice doesn't make Yankee fans and the team tolerable.
   21. BDC Posted: December 21, 2013 at 04:43 PM (#4622246)
Arlington, Texas, which is a nice "little" city wedge between Dallas and Fort Worth

Thank you, ajnrules. Thank you very much. I've lived in New York and I've lived in Dallas. They both have their advantages. Dallas is better if you have a car and ever want to park it anywhere. Also if you like sunshine. Actually it's nicer in NY today than in Arlington, so there goes that theory.

Grushenko, I reckon #8 is correct, though I wish to Heck they would DFA Moreland, try Choice in LF while he's young, and put Choo (or Fielder, if Choo could be taught 1B) at DH. Probably egos and agents preclude that. Rios is a decent glove and certainly fast enough for LF.

Remember too that the Rangers now have JP Arencibia. If there is some way to pick his starts so it's only on days when he hits home runs, they're going to be awesome.

I would also guess that Tanner Scheppers is the closer till he somehow loses the job. There may be some inertial pull towards putting Feliz back in the role, but Scheppers throws 100 MPH routinely and I don't know that Feliz has come back that fast. Maybe Feliz will take over the 8th inning, and Cotts be tried (as he was last year) more situationally. It will be fun to watch.



   22. jobu Posted: December 21, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4622252)
The New York vs. Dallas nose-thumbing seems ridiculous to me. When you're making $10M+ a year, the livability of one city or another wouldn't seem to enter into it much. The season is 6 months long, and half of it is spent on the road. Another 5-6 weeks is spent in Florida or Arizona. The remaining months, one would have more than enough money to live wherever one wants, in the world. And careers are over halfway (or less) through most athletes' lives. If Choo wants to go to a World Series, he has gone with the odds by choosing the Rangers over the Yankees.
   23. Gonfalon B. Posted: December 21, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4622255)
Er, does New York City have the International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame? No, that would be ARLINGTON, TEXAS.
   24. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 05:38 PM (#4622260)
jobu: and the three months or so you actually have to spend in your team's home city are during the summer, when one of the downsides of New York and other northeastern cities (the long horrible winter) isn't in play.

That said, New York has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and I don't think I could be paid enough to live there.
   25. BDC Posted: December 21, 2013 at 05:57 PM (#4622264)
does New York City have the International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame? No, that would be ARLINGTON

Hell, I didn't know that. Now I'm sorry I do.
   26. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 05:59 PM (#4622265)
It's almost as though different people have different ideas as to what constitutes a good place to live and work.
   27. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 21, 2013 at 06:00 PM (#4622266)
That's $10 mil over the next seven years he passed up on. Although it sounds like the no state income tax makes it stronger than the Yankee offer.
About $100,000 a year.
   28. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 21, 2013 at 06:01 PM (#4622267)
Boras gets less money, though.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 06:10 PM (#4622268)
About $100,000 a year.

It's got to be a lot more than that. The top NYS rate is 8.2% over $1M (single) or $2M (couple).
   30. The Good Face Posted: December 21, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4622273)
#8 seems about right; that's a solid playoff contender. It's going to be ugly in 4 or 5 years, when they're paying ~$38M/year in dead money to Fielder/Choo, but right now they have a chance to contend and they're taking it. Hard to complain about that as a fan.
   31. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4622274)
That said, New York has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and I don't think I could be paid enough to live there.


Not a fan of art, theater, museums, or restaurants?
   32. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:16 PM (#4622281)
No, no, no and not really.

I'm also not a fan of relentlessly smug people who regard everyone who doesn't live in their city as a lower form of life.
   33. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:18 PM (#4622282)
Anyone who would choose Dallas over NYC is a fool. Hell, Witchita Falls is better than Dallas. About the only city known to be categorically worse than Dallas in every facet is Houston. Houston, by the way, is Hell. Texas has a lot of nice places. San Antonio, El Paso and Austin are all pretty cool in their own ways. Dallas and Houston both sort of feel like someone says "Atlanta's sprawl without any of the southern charm? Sign me up!"
   34. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:24 PM (#4622283)
Rickey!: Never been to Cleveland or Detroit, I take it?
   35. Shoebo Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4622284)
The key for Choo is he must reverse his trend of declining fly ball rate and soaring GB rate.

His HR/FB ratio has been fairly stable, and was up a bit last year, but he's hitting far fewer fly ball. He is a consistent high BABIP hitter, but as he ages that will of course go down as he loses a step down the line, ESPECIALLY if he keeps hitting so many ground balls.

As his BABIP and B.A. drop, so too does his OBP, and in the meantime he doesn't hit enough homers to cause pitchers to fear him. So he'll walk less. In short, the thing that makes him most valuable, the OBP, is likely to see a steep decline over the middle years of this contract if he does not reverse the Groundball trend and become a more consistent Homerun threat.

Contradictory, I know.....but that's the way it looks to me.

The jump in GB rate the last two years is a huge red flag to me. BUT.....if he knocks trades about 4-5 % GB back to FB, in Texas, he will maintain his value for a good deal longer.
   36. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:28 PM (#4622286)
Rickey!: Never been to Cleveland or Detroit, I take it?


I have been to both Cleveland and Detroit. I simply refuse to call them "cities."
   37. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4622288)
I'm also not a fan of relentlessly smug people who regard everyone who doesn't live in their city as a lower form of life.

Yeah. I hated NYC long before I moved to the Dallas area. In truth, NYC might possibly be tolerable without the New Yorkers.
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:41 PM (#4622290)
It's got to be a lot more than that. The top NYS rate is 8.2% over $1M (single) or $2M (couple).


The Texas State tax rate only matters for his home games and games he plays in Houston...So roughly 90 games a year without a state income tax, after that, depending on the city, he owes for each state he plays in. (just quick math, roughly 8% is about $825,000 per year)
   39. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4622291)
Many Yankee fans are speechless as free agents turn down offers from the Bronx so that they can play for a contender.
   40. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 21, 2013 at 08:42 PM (#4622299)
Zeth

As someone who gets to NYC at least 6-7 times a year I have no familiarity with the New York you describe

Maybe if all you did was read the writings of helaine olen or watch reruns of s8x and the city

lot of down to earth people in NYC

great city

If I was feeling cranky I would tell you your posts read as moronic

But trying to be goodnatured for the holidays
   41. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 21, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4622301)
There is a class of folks who do act in the fashion described

People who themselves moved to the city and then act snooty. A high profile example of this idiocy is the football writer peter king

He moved to NYC and now spends every opportunity complaining about tourists

Actual New Yorkers are proud that their city is so highly regarded

The Peter kings of the world are a pox on humanity
   42. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 21, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4622302)
Ok, getting surly and I told the wife I would temper my Grinchy qualities

Toodles
   43. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4622304)
Harveys: Your brain is full of spiders; you've got garlic in your soul.

Edit: Most of my job has to do with interacting with tourists *from* New York, and half of them or more fit perfectly the description I gave above. I used to think it was an unfair caricature, too.
   44. madvillain Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4622305)
Well I just typed about 200 words in response to Harvey and backing him up that NYCers are wonderful and that compared to say, oh people in the PNW they are awesome and how moving to Seattle after New York shook me of my believe that people are people because of how horribly passive aggressive and mean spirited some people in Seattle seem after NYC but my stupid laptop at the parents house on vacation decided to activate the touchpad when I'm typing so most of it got deleted, but that was the gist of it.

Yes Harvey, the civic pride in NYC is amazing, perhaps my favorite part of the city. The response of shoveling and icing in my part of Brooklyn during the bad snowstorms of 2010 was one of the coolest things I've ever experienced. I was decidedly not the default culture or skin color in my part of BK but walking down the hill to the Subway in Sunset Park after the storm I had at least 3 or 4 people stop shoveling their stoop in order to clear the sidewalk for me, a moment I'll never forget and makes me glad I lived in the city for a spell in my life, even if now I consider it only a great place to visit.


_________

But I really came here to say HOLY HELL FANGRAPHS POSTERS ARE RIDICULOUS. If there is an argument that baseball stat nerds are socially stunted know it alls that don't play well with others, that thread would be a good place to back up the thesis.

@43 -- New York is a working class city, don't let the people that you interact with you cloud your view of that. Go spend some time in the Irish bars of Woodside or the Bodegas of Crown Heights or the Comida Tipica joints uptown.
   45. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4622310)
I'm also not a fan of relentlessly smug people who regard everyone who doesn't live in their city as a lower form of life.


I don't see how that defends anywhere located in the state of Texas. Don't mess with Texas? Too late, it was a mess already.
   46. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:22 PM (#4622313)
I've never been to Texas and have personally interacted with only a small handful of Texans and so cannot comment on it.
   47. TerpNats Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4622316)
The Metroplex (Dallas-Fort Worth) is probably the best all-around sports market in the Sunbelt, what with the Rangers, Cowboys, Mavericks and Stars. I don't sense its media or sports talk stations are anywhere as Cowboys-centric as D.C. sports talkers are Redskins-centric, even though the Nationals and Rangers are about equal in talent, the Capitals certainly are better than the Stars, and the Mavericks are somewhat better than the Wizards. I've been to DFW and have friends there; while it's obviously nowhere as "progressive" as New York, there are pockets where northeastern emigres can feel comfortable, and there's more culture in the area than outsiders give it credit for (e.g., Fort Worth's array of museums, classical music station WRR-FM).

Would I want to live in the Metroplex? I tend to doubt it; the summer climate is simply too hot for me. But if I were restricted to the states of the Confederacy (not counting Virginia, where I currently reside), I'd certainly take DFW over Atlanta, any place in crazy Florida, or the rest of the Bible Belt.
   48. greenback likes millwall, they don't care Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:43 PM (#4622318)
A friend visited Dallas recently on business, and she was looking for things to do there. She and her husband (mostly her husband) visited the Cowboys' stadium and they visited the Texas School Book Depository. I kinda suggested Oak Lawn, but that was not an option apparently. I know there are a few good museums in Dallas, but aside from a giant TV and the place where the POTUS was killed, there's not much that is both unique to the area and interesting. Hell, there's more to do in St. Louis, and they were upset because they lost the bowling hall of game to Arlington (it was a couple of blocks away from Busch Stadium).
   49. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4622319)
I saw (saw, from a car, did not enter) the bowling HOF when I was in Arlington in September to see the A's wipe the floor with the Rangers. I am surprised, therefore, that BDC was not previously aware of it.
   50. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 21, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4622320)
I grew up in New York. Every time I go back I'm reminded of how much I hate it.

The blue collar people are boorish and obnoxious.

The white collar people are arrogant and douchey.

The bridge and tunnel commuters are boring and patrician.

The tourists, though, the tourists are the ####### worst. It's like there's something about visiting NYC that makes people put their head up their ass.

It's not a pleasant place.

EDIT: Sam is right about Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, but I have to disagree on El Paso, surely the sketchiest big city in the US. I felt like I was being watched by Mexican drug lords the whole time.
   51. madvillain Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4622321)
Texas triangle seems like a cool spot, explored various parts of SA, Houston, San Padre Island (the national park part) and Austin a few years ago and had a good time in each. Hung out around Rice for a St Patty's day party, I was 27 at the time and didn't really feel that out of place among the college kids, of course now at 30 I probably would a bit more.

San Padre was pretty awesome, camped there a couple nights and lemme tell ya, even in early march the angle of the sun is pretty damn strong, can't really imagine how people manage the summers down there.

People in all the places seemed fine, very southern imo, much like NOLA or South Carolina. Of course I'm white, so that helps.
   52. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:05 PM (#4622323)

The tourists, though, the tourists are the ####### worst. It's like there's something about visiting NYC that makes people put their head up their ass.


Let's be fair to New York here; that's tourists everywhere. Out here we call them tourons.
   53. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4622325)
New York is an amazing place to be rich in, the best in the country.

It's also a great place to be working class in, or to be a lower middle class working guy.

It is a very difficult place to be middle class.

And it is worst of all to be a middle class person who moved there after college.

People come here in their 20's, make 50 grand a year, then run away like it was hell. And it probably was.
   54. Doris from Rego Park Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4622328)
i live on the uws, but was all over manhattan for last night christmas shopping today (united nations gift shop!) and walked through soho because i hate myself. broadway, in particular, was so terrible that i wasn't even mad and just had to laugh (and walk in the street to get around them).
   55. PreservedFish Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4622332)
I grew up in NYC, I don't live there any more, but I think it's a totally amazing and wonderful place. One of the very best cities. I don't understand the grumpiness it invokes in some people. But I am also the type of person that can be excited about visiting any place - send me to Des Moines and I'll find out what's great about Des Moines and I'll go do that and I'll enjoy myself very much.
   56. madvillain Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:45 PM (#4622335)


People come here in their 20's, make 50 grand a year, then run away like it was hell. And it probably was.


That's me, except it was roughly 80% of that. I dunno, I have quite a few friends still there that are still middle class and still really love it. It's just different strokes for different folks. I attended a number of completely ####### badass parties on rooftops and highrises and ritzy artists lofts and literally walked into a jay z video shoot and all sorts of other badass stuff, but I still couldn't afford to go out for drinks more than once or twice a week.

After awhile, 8 dollar drafts at the "dive bar" gets a little annoying, as does the apartment hunt on 40k. As does the commute from said apartment in the outer borough. When I meet people in Seattle after I've said "I lived in NYC for 5 years before here" the next question is almost always "so why'd you move" or "how did you like it" and I say "it's a great city, and I'll move back when I'm rich".

I can't even imagine trying to raise a family there, kudos to all the immigrants and 2nd gens that do and do it well.
   57. Curse of the Andino Posted: December 21, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4622336)
Go spend some time in the Irish bars of Woodside or the Bodegas of Crown Heights or the Comida Tipica joints uptown.


I was just in NYC on business--actually, Flushing, I do some stuff with Asians. My only night to go out was Saturday, and, coming back from Midtown, you have to get off for a Guinness and a Jameson, but it was too late to get a shamrock in the foam.
   58. Astroenteritis (tom) Posted: December 21, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4622344)
About the only city known to be categorically worse than Dallas in every facet is Houston.


Completely disagree. I lived in Houston for 20+ years and it is so much better than Dallas it's not even funny.
Houston is more diverse, more cosmopolitan, has better arts and culture (obviously we're not talking NYC here, folks) and the climate is actually better than Dallas, plus you are closer to the coast. Of course, I hate high population density, so Houston is great in that regard (though the incredibly low pop. density results in horrendous traffic).

Now, Houston isn't that great a place to visit, but if you live there you find all kinds of great attributes, cool neighborhoods and such. Dallas is just the pits. And, no, the whole metroplex doesn't count as "Dallas". Now NYC is awesome, but I would never want to live there simply because of the winters, and the population density. I also like San Antonio and have lived in Austin for 20 years. Austin is a little overrated, but it's great if you're a 20-something, I guess.
Given a choice, I would rather live in Houston than Austin, partly because Austin is such a sports wasteland, and also has a strangely "good ol' boy" feel for a place that's so progressive.

One thing you have to give Dallas over Houston is they have the NHL, darn it. But they also have Mark Cuban.
The Choo signing certainly gives the Dallas Rangers of Arlington a formidable looking lineup. They should be quite good.


   59. Hank G. Posted: December 21, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4622350)
The blue collar people are boorish and obnoxious.

The white collar people are arrogant and douchey.

The bridge and tunnel commuters are boring and patrician.

The tourists, though, the tourists are the ####### worst. It's like there's something about visiting NYC that makes people put their head up their ass.


I suspect that this says a lot more about you than the citizens and tourist of New York City.
   60. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 21, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4622351)
Worst thread ever?
   61. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: December 21, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4622358)
...the next question is almost always "so why'd you move" or "how did you like it" and I say "it's a great city, and I'll move back when I'm rich".


I say the same thing about San Francisco.
   62. Shoebo Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:00 AM (#4622364)
Worst thread ever?


Yes, I was looking forward to coming back and seeing a post from Walt telling me why I'm wrong in my Choo theory. ;)
   63. Chip Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:57 AM (#4622383)
the climate is actually better than Dallas


I loathe both cities, but have spent a lot more time in Houston, and the only way you could claim this to be true is if you actually like oppressive humidity to accompany your stifling summer heat.
   64. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:01 AM (#4622384)
But I am also the type of person that can be excited about visiting any place - send me to Des Moines and I'll find out what's great about Des Moines and I'll go do that and I'll enjoy myself very much.


Des Moines is actually quite a lovely little town. Shuts down at 5PM, but then again so does Wilmington, DE. At least Des Moines has a really nice river walk.
   65. Walt Davis Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:04 AM (#4622385)
Well, I wouldn't want to disappoint ...

actually I think climbing GB rates are usually not a good thing. If I were to quibble, I assume more GB will help his BABIP if anything but GB singles in place of a few HR is usually not a good trade.

Not a fan of the deal. In the other thread my q&d projection over 7 years was about 15 WAR, maybe 18 WAR.

Somebody mentioned the Rangers would take it if he averaged 4 WAR/year during the contract. Well, yeah. :-) Only 35 players in the expansion era have had 28+ WAR from ages 31-37 and most of those are, will be or should be in the HoF. The "worst" players to do it are Kent, Phillips, Cruz, L Gonzalez and Brett Butler. Those and a few of the HoFers (e.g. Molitor) are not entirely un-Choo-like so it's not crazy that he could do it. But in the thread where I cam up with my projection, Cruz was by far the best of his comps, also Dewey at 26 and there were 2-3 guys at 22 WAR ... but those were almost all guys who were better than Choo prior to this age range.

On the tax thing ... 8% of $140 M is $11.2 M so the Yanks contract was (give or take) 7/$128.8 vs the Rangers 7/$130. I suppose the NPV thing works out in the Rangers favor too. Frankly I think the income tax thing was raised by Boras (and parroted by Heyman) to make it clear that Choo didn't turn down a better offer.

EDIT: Oops, as somebody pointed out, only about half of his income is "taxed" in Texas so the hit to the Yanks is just $5.6 M making the Yanks' offer appear to be the better one.
   66. robinred Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4622392)
Texas seems to be trying make moves to give them another shot or two at getting over the mountain; given the late-season and post-season disappointments of recent years, I think that makes sense.

As a Reds fan, I will miss Choo.
   67. ptodd Posted: December 22, 2013 at 03:01 AM (#4622404)
I suspect the cost of living and housing are as significant as the tax issues. He also stands to make more in post season earnings with Texas. The Yankees don't look like they will sniff the post season so long as the 189'ers are running the show.
   68. Shoebo Posted: December 22, 2013 at 07:37 AM (#4622412)
Thanks Walt.

Agree GB BABIP itself actually higher than FB BABIP, but HR help BA, OBP and SLG, and more HR often mean more walks.

more GB means more singles perhaps, as you say, but that is diminishing return as he ages, as presumably his GB BABIP drops as he ages, and as mentioned up thread, less fear equal less walks.

BTW, my snarky little comment was meant as respect with a tweak of course.. I look forward to your posts more than most here.
   69. BDC Posted: December 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM (#4622430)
the bowling HOF … I am surprised, therefore, that BDC was not previously aware of it

It shouldn't be too hard to spin that particular shortcoming. Something like "Do I strike you as the kind of guy who knows where the Bowling Hall of Fame is?" :)
   70. The Good Face Posted: December 22, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4622440)
But I really came here to say HOLY HELL FANGRAPHS POSTERS ARE RIDICULOUS. If there is an argument that baseball stat nerds are socially stunted know it alls that don't play well with others, that thread would be a good place to back up the thesis.


Oh man, confirming that. What a mess...
   71. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4622454)
Is it just me or are the first salvos always fired by people who don't like NYC?

New York is an amazing place to be rich in, the best in the country.

It's also a great place to be working class in, or to be a lower middle class working guy.

It is a very difficult place to be middle class.

And it is worst of all to be a middle class person who moved there after college.

People come here in their 20's, make 50 grand a year, then run away like it was hell. And it probably was.


This is interesting in a counter-intuitive way, but having worked with lower middle class kids in the city, I'd say it's probably a rougher place to live for people with less money. I mean there's some angst for the young 20 somethings on Girls but they still end up with a lot more leisure time on their hands.
   72. BDC Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4622456)
first of all fangraphs is on great site
   73. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4622461)
I did not grow up in New York. I moved there as an adult, and it is the only place I have ever been truly happy living.

If what you like is a big, cultureless, sprawling, dirty nothing-burger, by all means, have Dallas. Have Phoenix and Salt Lake City and every other shitty place invented by the car culture. Hole up in your air conditioned McMansion and watch the same television you could be watching anywhere else in the world. Be superficially nice to people you hate. Mow fertilize your lawn and never walk on it. Perpetuate everything that is the very worst about America.

I'll take a city that's actually a city, and be a bigger and more whole human being.

Is it just me or are the first salvos always fired by people who don't like NYC?


Also this. The inferiority complex reeks so highly that I can smell it through my computer.
   74. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4622464)
The Yankees don't look like they will sniff the post season so long as the 189'ers are running the show.


Are you interested in a small wager about this? I bet a bb-ref sponsorship that THIS ownership group (at least one Steinbrenner) will still own the team when they next make the playoffs.

Or am I simply feeding the trolls by taking this seriously?
   75. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 22, 2013 at 12:54 PM (#4622472)
New York is the worst city in the history of the world … on St. Patrick's Day. Unlike all other ethnic and cultural parades, that one takes place on the actual holiday, not on the preceding or following Sunday.
   76. bobm Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4622492)
New York is the worst city in the history of the world … on St. Patrick's Day. Unlike all other ethnic and cultural parades, that one takes place on the actual holiday, not on the preceding or following Sunday.

The parade pre-dates the American Revolution, unlike the others.
   77. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4622500)
The parade pre-dates the American Revolution, unlike the others.

It also predates workers attempting to get to meetings on the other side of Fifth Avenue.
   78. bobm Posted: December 22, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4622507)
It also predates workers attempting to get to meetings on the other side of Fifth Avenue.

At least one can schedule around it, since it takes place on the same date each year.
   79. Walt Davis Posted: December 22, 2013 at 06:52 PM (#4622631)
BTW, my snarky little comment was meant as respect with a tweak of course

no worries, that's how I took it.

And we're in agreement. That's why I tend not to pay much attention to BABIP for hitters, I want to know what happens when they hit the ball even if it goes over the fence! :-) More groundballs might hurt his overall BA (and certainly his ISO) but probably not his BABIP (in the short term at least).
   80. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 22, 2013 at 06:55 PM (#4622633)
McMansion


Voxter: Is that a Ben Folds quote? If so, kudos to you.
   81. bookbook Posted: December 22, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4622696)
In all seriousness, your $20 million per year will go a lot further in Texas (or anywhere else) than in NY City. In that respect, you'll be better off Refusing the Yanks, regardless of tax impacts. (Only in Manhattan can you buy an efficiency for $1.6 million in the bad part of town.)
On the other hand there are a wealth of experiences that are unique to New York.

   82. bookbook Posted: December 22, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4622698)
Over/under on how much the M's overpay for Nelson Cruz? I've got $34 million overpay.
   83. McCoy Posted: December 22, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4622702)
It is insanely easy to live in NYC as a middle class person or family.
   84. theboyqueen Posted: December 22, 2013 at 11:11 PM (#4622714)
Sam is right about Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, but I have to disagree on El Paso, surely the sketchiest big city in the US. I felt like I was being watched by Mexican drug lords the whole time.


El Paso has the lowest crime rate of any city in the US. San Diego is second. NYC is third.
   85. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 22, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4622718)
Imagine my confusion hearing discussion about the Bowling HOF being in Arlington when I saw it in St. Louis. Apparently St. Louis shut down in 2008 and reopened in Arlington in 2010. It was a perfectly cromulent way to spend an hour and a half.
   86. puck Posted: December 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4622723)
El Paso has the lowest crime rate of any city in the US.

My god, the drug lords have killed all the statisticians.
   87. spike Posted: December 23, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4623213)
Actual New Yorkers are proud that their city is so highly regarded

Late to the party, and I am sure no one cares, but the three months I lived and worked in Manhattan this was plainly true. Actual New Yorkers treated me great, asked about my Southern accent with genuine interest and were not shy about buying a stranger a drink for no other reason than kindness and civic pride. I'll never say a bad word about the place.
   88. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 23, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4623236)
It is insanely easy to live in NYC as a middle class person or family.

Um, what? Are you talking about Staten Island, Co-op City, or some other outer borough experience, McCoy?

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