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Sunday, October 21, 2012

Heyman: Farrell may or may not be the next Francona, but at least Boston got its man

The Boston Red Sox got their man, John Farrell, sources confirm, and right up front they need to be credited for moving decisively and quickly to hire the manager they wanted all along.

There was no dragged-out process, no wasted time, no controversy or pushback.

As Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said just before the season ended, they desired to hit the ground running. And of course they didn’t want to repeat the many-week managerial search of a year ago.

As a bonus, there doesn’t appear to be much sacrifice, either, on Boston’s part as initial reports suggest solid journeyman infielder Mike Aviles is the compensation for Farrell. Some reportsalso suggest Adam Lind may go with Farrell in the trade, making it a two-for-one deal. Assuming either scenario is correct, the Red Sox made a hard bargain.

Really, that isn’t such a major surprise since word had gotten out that Farrell was on the outs with the Blue Jays front office. Toronto people may deny that (of course they also said they wouldn’t let anyone leave for a lateral move), but Farrell had only a year to go on his Toronto contract, and there was no real interest known to be shown to extend that deal by Jays people.

As one person with ties to Toronto said, “The people there would charter a plane to get him out.’‘

Thanks to Teddy Barnald.

Repoz Posted: October 21, 2012 at 01:21 AM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays, red sox

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   1. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: October 21, 2012 at 03:21 AM (#4277843)
Managing the Red Sox in 2013: Better or worse, for your managerial career, than being fired from the Blue Jays after 2012? Assuming you get paid the same for the rest of your current contract.

   2. Swedish Chef Posted: October 21, 2012 at 06:14 AM (#4277851)
Some reportsalso suggest Adam Lind may go with Farrell in the trade, making it a two-for-one deal. Assuming either scenario is correct, the Red Sox made a hard bargain.

Isn't getting rid of Lind a positive for the Blue Jays? He's been crap for three years now.
   3. Greg K Posted: October 21, 2012 at 07:02 AM (#4277854)
Yeah, I've often lumped Lind and Loney together in my mind in the past couple years...though Loney seems more athletic. Is Loney still technically with the Sox? I'd assume he's a non-tender guy anyway. Lind makes $5 million in 2013 whereas Loney would presumably make more than that in arbitration...so that's better for Boston I suppose. It's always sad to see a player you watched grow into a major league player go. Lind was never a particular favourite of mine, but he seems like a nice chap...I wish him good luck.

I'm not sure if these means anything for Yunel Escobar. With Kelly Johnson likely gone and Hechavarria not exactly on the cusp of stardom I think Aviles fills a useful 2B/utility role.
   4. jmurph Posted: October 21, 2012 at 08:35 AM (#4277863)
Since I don't know enough to know whether Farrell will work out or not, for now I will just bask in the joy of not having to watch Mike Aviles "hit" anymore.
   5. Dale Sams Posted: October 21, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4278017)
"As a bonus..Mike Aviles.." (SPITTAKE)

What did the Sox get for Epstien? A bad Chris Carpenter? And the Jays get a field player who could start on about 5 or 6 teams in the league?

edit: I guess filler like Lind evens it out. Don't bother flaming me btw.
   6. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 21, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4278023)
What the hell happened to Lind after 2009? Although I guess the better question would be what the hell happened to Lind in 2009.
   7. Boileryard Posted: October 21, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4278028)
Several reporters on Twitter now say that the player going to Boston isn't Lind. Apparently it's some fringe player on the Jays' 40-man roster.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4278054)
RHP David Carpenter is being sent to Boston
Toronto acquired Carpenter in a deal with Houston this past summer.
   9. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4278057)
Could be worse, when the Rays traded for Pinella they gave up Randy Winn. But still, to give up a 2 WAR guy (even one who's probably not actually 2 WAR good) for a manager seems dumb. To give up any players for a manager seems dumb.
   10. Ryan Lind Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4278062)
What the hell happened to Lind after 2009?


Back problems, the career killer.
   11. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4278064)
Could be worse, when the Rays traded for Pinella they gave up Randy Winn. But still, to give up a 2 WAR guy (even one who's probably not actually 2 WAR good) for a manager seems dumb.
I'm pretty sure Aviles was going to be non-tendered by the Sox anyway. Conceivably they could have gotten a little more for him than a minor league reliever, but I don't think they would have gotten that much more. And locking in the manager before the end of the postseason, so they can work with him on building the roster, that has value too.
   12. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 22, 2012 at 07:44 AM (#4278724)
What the hell happened to Lind after 2009?

Back problems, the career killer.



Being a lazy dumbass hasn't helped him either, he's expressed his disdain for stretching and hitting the gym on more than one occasion.

I had no problem with giving up Farrell, but I'd rather have a bag of balls from Boston than Aviles. Carpenter was worth Aviles without even bringing Farrell into the equation.
   13. formerly dp Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:03 AM (#4278793)
Wait, Aviles hit .250/.282/.381 and the Jays traded for him? For some reason, I thought Aviles had a better 2012 than that.

I was really disappointed by the Jays this year-- sucks when you waste an out-of-the-blue MVP season from someone like Encarnacion (who was pretty much despised by Jay fans going into the season, no?) by balancing it with terrible years from guys like Rasmus, Escobar, Lind, and Romero. Aside from EE, with all of the injuries to their normally-deep rotation, they just seemed snakebit this year. But at least the finished ahead of the Sox.
   14. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4278797)
(who was pretty much despised by Jay fans going into the season, no?)

No. He was generally well liked, or at least not disliked. We just hated watching him try to throw from third.
   15. formerly dp Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:16 AM (#4278803)
No. He was generally well liked, or at least not disliked. We just hated watching him try to throw from third.


Thanks for clearing that up. I have always pulled for him, since his early days with the Reds, but I don't watch a ton of Jay games so didn't have to endure watching him play 3B. Any speculation as to where he'll finish in the MVP voting? Normally, I'd say his across-the-board line, populated by numbers in the columns writers like, gets him into the top 5, but this year that's far from a sure thing.
   16. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4278807)
I'd say closer to top 10 than top 5. He's got lots of homers and RBI, but his average wasn't anything special, he's only a 1B/DH, and the Jays were ####### awful this year. He'll get some votes, but you'll likely see Cabrera, Cano, Hamilton, and Trout all finish ahead of him, and then you've still got guys like Beltre, Jackson, and Fielder who had strong years on playoff teams, and I'm sure there are other guys I'm forgetting too.
   17. SoSH U at work Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4278809)
Normally, I'd say his across-the-board line, populated by numbers in the columns writers like, gets him into the top 5, but this year that's far from a sure thing.


I think he'll be lucky to crack the Top 10. I'd imagine the Top 5 would look: Cabrera and Trout in a close race, big gap to Cano adn another gap to Beltre, Verlander. Everyone after the Top 3 is fighting for table scraps anyway.

   18. formerly dp Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4278860)
I think he'll be lucky to crack the Top 10.

As RJ pointed out, being a Jay and a 1B/DH hurt him, but he was #3 in the league in raw OPS (which I think might matter a little more to voters than it used to), #4 in HR, and tied for #3 in RBI. And he stole a few bases.

Everyone after the Top 3 is fighting for table scraps anyway.

Granted. Hopefully he can keep some of the gains he made in '12-- Bautista/EE's a solid core to build the lineup around.

Trout's year still kind of blows me away-- those are video game numbers, not the kind you see in real baseball.
   19. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 22, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4278912)
Edwin was the only player worth watching after Bautista went down. Compact swing (he only K'd 94 times) and you gotta love the T-Rex impression he does on his home run trot. I'd be shocked if he finished higher than 8th in the voting though.
   20. Danny Posted: October 22, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4278931)
I'm pretty sure Aviles was going to be non-tendered by the Sox anyway. Conceivably they could have gotten a little more for him than a minor league reliever, but I don't think they would have gotten that much more.

Is Aviles worse than Cliff Pennington?
   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 22, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4279169)

Wait, Aviles hit .250/.282/.381 and the Jays traded for him? For some reason, I thought Aviles had a better 2012 than that.


He had a really nice April, but sucked after that. He had a lot of HR and RBI for a middle infielder though, if you're into that.
   22. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4279210)
His defense was also surprisingly good (at least to me). He showed pretty good range and didn't seem to kick the routine stuff too badly.
   23. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4279224)
Plus having Aviles means we don't have Farrell anymore, so I'm okay with it.
   24. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4279225)
And locking in the manager before the end of the postseason, so they can work with him on building the roster, that has value too.


Unfortunately, John Farrell does not.

   25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4279227)

His defense was also surprisingly good (at least to me). He showed pretty good range and didn't seem to kick the routine stuff too badly.


In KC I recall him being surprisingly competent at SS and surprisingly awful at 2B. He is one of the worst baserunners I have ever seen though. He also gets more bloop hits and doubles than any hitter I've seen.

He's decent. For a cheap SS with some pop, he's not a bad deal at all if you can overlook his bad OBA. I think he's fair value for a cromulent manager like Farrell.
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4279232)
John Farrell the baseball player was only dealt once in his career, towards the very end of his career, from Cleveland to Detroit for some minor leaguer named Greg Grainger.
   27. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4279238)
Unfortunately, John Farrell does not.

This is someone who knows what he's talking about.
   28. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: October 22, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4279269)
Unfortunately, John Farrell does not.

and then...

This is someone who knows what he's talking about.

Fun. I wish there was more of this. Primer must be a lot less populated/attended than it was in the early 2000's, because there is so little traffic on this topic considering the Red Sox just got a new manager.
   29. Swedish Chef Posted: October 22, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4279288)
Fun. I wish there was more of this. Primer must be a lot less populated/attended than it was in the early 2000's, because there is so little traffic on this topic considering the Red Sox just got a new manager.

Last year one could have thought Valentine had been sworn in as both the new Pope and President based on the sheer number of threads and commentary.
   30. Boileryard Posted: October 22, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4279294)
I'm sure there will be many polite and thoughtful discussions of Farrell's 8-man bullpen in the months (and years) ahead.
   31. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4279309)
Fun. I wish there was more of this. Primer must be a lot less populated/attended than it was in the early 2000's, because there is so little traffic on this topic considering the Red Sox just got a new manager.


Disagree. Agree.

Let me elaborate - I think that our colleagues here shouldn't drag reputations around. Most of the time, I think it's out of bounds to bring up an observation based on someone's past in other threads.

But the lack of attention to this particular topic is very surprising. When the White Flag trade happened, there were at least seventy-five threads about it at all times.
   32. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4279314)
Last year one could have thought Valentine had been sworn in as both the new Pope and President based on the sheer number of threads and commentary.

No doubt, and I likely read through a lot of 'em. That doesn't help my entertainment need now though does it? ;) It's expected a forced Valentine hiring would draw in higher numbers of comments and blood pressure from folks.
   33. TerpNats Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4279318)
Any word on whom the Jays may consider as a successor?
   34. Boileryard Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4279326)
Anthopoulos said the search for a new manager would begin immediately, and that the list of candidates would be shorter this time around. Brian Butterfield, DeMarlo Hale and Sandy Alomar Jr. were the runners-up to Farrell two years ago, so I imagine all three of those guys will be considered for the job again. Current Jays coaches Don Wakamatsu and Luis Rivera were also interviewed back then but eliminated early in the process, so I don't know if they're serious candidates. First base coach Torey Lovullo is another name that's been mentioned in the press.
   35. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4279327)
Any word on whom the Jays may consider as a successor?

They're looking for the opposite of Farrell. So someone with good tactical skills who doesn't check out late in the season and lose the clubhouse.
   36. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4279333)
Any word on whom the Jays may consider as a successor?


Maybe the Red Sox will make John Farrell available?
   37. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4279336)
Maybe the Red Sox will make John Farrell available?

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!
   38. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4279339)
Maybe the Red Sox will make John Farrell available?

I suspect the Cubs would do the same with Alfonso Soriano.
   39. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4279343)
@ #35 Haha

Lovullo is expected to go w/ Farrell to BOS. As bench coach was mentioned yesterday in someones column.

Sandy Alomar Jr apparently interviewed well last time. Butterfield is apparently on record somewhere this year as saying he's *not* interested in managing in MLB anymore. People assume Manny Acta might get looked into because Anthopoulos made a comment yesterday that he'd like to interview people he couldn't at the time he hired Farrell because they were employed elsewhere. They were also denied access to Tim Wallach then too. Sal Fasano manages TOR double-AA club and people think may be interviewed. He seems to be a interesting character based on a few interviews he's done since turning to managing. Today Keith Law on Twitter and on TSN radio has mentioned a Doug Davis (not the former pitcher) who is in the TOR Org who is very well thought of by the TOR Front Office according to him.
   40. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4279348)
I officially want to see Sal Fasano manage in the majors. Does he still have the mustache?
   41. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4279354)
I officially want to see Sal Fasano manage in the majors. Does he still have the mustache?

Yup
   42. Boileryard Posted: October 22, 2012 at 06:58 PM (#4279369)
Anthopoulos ruled out Fasano as manager for the Bisons next season, so that likely means he's not a candidate to manage the big club, either.

This is the Doug Davis that Law was referring to.
   43. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 22, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4279374)
But the lack of attention to this particular topic is very surprising. When the White Flag trade happened, there were at least seventy-five threads about it at all times.


The Sox hiring of Farrell is not the interesting. Valentine was a polarizing figure with a lengthy track record and an awful lot to talk about, Farrell is a pretty generic manager, I don't think there is a lot to be said about him at this point.
   44. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: October 22, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4279383)
Farrell got crap in the Toronto media for not being enough of a hard-ass when young players took liberties with their baserunning options. The Jays had way too many baserunning outs in unecessary situations. Farrell appeared to be a "let them play their way" kind of manager.

Considering a year under Valentine the Sox players may consider him a ray of sunshine. It might just be what they need.

As a Jays fan I can't blame him for our injuries but I still feel we underperformed. We need a new sheriff.
   45. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: October 22, 2012 at 07:20 PM (#4279384)
Anthopoulos ruled out Fasano as manager for the Bisons next season, so that likely means he's not a candidate to manage the big club, either.

Not disagreeing. Maybe he likes what Fasano is doing with that Double-AA group, continuity, etc. But when he said that obviously he was expecting Farrell to be his manager in '13 and his MLB clubs situation is slightly more important. All this assuming he actually has that high an opinion of Fasano at this point.
   46. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 22, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4279404)
So AA is the GM for the entire Blue Jay organization?

How much time do you think he devotes to his farm team clubs? 10% of his hours? 15%?
   47. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: October 22, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4279421)
How much time do you think he devotes to his farm team clubs? 10% of his hours? 15%?


Given how much of the minor league roster was up in Toronto, and the need to get the heck out of Vegas, maybe even a little more.
   48. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 22, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4279575)
He also gets more bloop hits and doubles than any hitter I've seen.

Derek Jeter.
   49. Ryan Lind Posted: October 22, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4279643)
So AA is the GM for the entire Blue Jay organization?


Yes. He's also the manager of the rookie ball team, the head of accounting, the head janitor and the bat boy on Sundays. How many salaries do you expect Rogers to pay?
   50. FrankM Posted: October 22, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4279813)
I have to laugh at some of the reactions here in Toronto (not on this site) by fans who a few months ago wanted Farrell run out of town on a rail. Then when Boston wants to hire him, they're all upset that the Jays couldn't get Buchholz for him.
   51. Ryan Lind Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4279921)
I get it. I mentioned this before, but it's a bit of a struggle dealing with the conflict of not wanting Farrell around and not wanting the Red Sox to get what they want. Maybe the Jays could have given Farrell a cushy executive type job where he doesn't actually have to do anything. Win-win-win.
   52. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4279967)
The Sox hiring of Farrell is not the interesting. Valentine was a polarizing figure with a lengthy track record and an awful lot to talk about, Farrell is a pretty generic manager, I don't think there is a lot to be said about him at this point.

Right. Most of us don't know anything about Farrell except that he's the manager for the Blue Jays. And that he was a pitcher, which is unusual for managers. But, you know, he's probably a pretty good manager, or whatever.
   53. villageidiom Posted: November 04, 2012 at 08:58 AM (#4292490)
Plus having Aviles means we don't have Farrell anymore, so I'm okay with it.
You don't even have Aviles any more. He's been traded to the Indians for Esmil Rogers.
   54. RJ in TO Posted: November 04, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4292503)
You don't even have Aviles any more. He's been traded to the Indians for Esmil Rogers.

But this still means we don't have Farrell anymore, right?
   55. villageidiom Posted: November 04, 2012 at 09:56 AM (#4292506)
But this still means we don't have Farrell anymore, right?
Yes, but Esmil Rogers could be the final piece in the puzzle to reacquire Vernon Wells.

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