All hail Lord Haw-Haw!

You know, that excerpt seems pretty balanced. If he were just a mouthpiece, I don't think he would have added the last line.

You know, that excerpt seems pretty balanced. If he were just a mouthpiece, I don't think he would have added the last line.

And he's not considered a mouthpiece for Bay's agent, who isn't Scott Boras, or likely to have been the guy who planted the report in WEEI. But we shouldn't let those things stop us.

Isn't the headline here "Mets plan to get only one good player even though they have about 10 holes to fill"?

As always Boras has talked with his friends at the Long Island Ducks.

SI.com learned that the Mets’ hierarchy voted on their Plans A, B and C at the Winter Meetings and that Plan A was Bay and catcher Bengie Molina, Plan B was John Lackey and Molina and Plan C was Roy Halladay and Molina.

Plan D is Molina and another Molina. Plan E is Molina, Molina, Molina, Eggs, Spam, Sausage, and Molina.

This fixation on Molina moves me to a Gaelan-level indictment of society as a whole.

Remarkable that the organization seems hellbent on signing an expensive old catcher to a multiyear deal when said catcher, after you deduct for his horrific baserunning, subpar defense, and likely age-related decline is a hair above replacement level.

We're not privy of course to what sort of debate there was, if any, but is it truly possible there was no contingent in the FO that argued against Molina and in favor of another catcher?

This is great. The Mets are poised to sign an extremely expensive DH to a long-term contract, something that will hamstring them towards the end of the Wright and Santana's contracts, and are perfectly ready to shovel another 10 million bucks down the toilet.

There's a significant chance this offseason will put 2011 in the crapper as well. Good job!

Roy Halladay was Plan C? The Mets never had any chance to get him, but that seems kind of silly.

Jairmany calling, Jairmany calling!

I love the "bay has loft" argument. Avg standard distance for home runs, 2006-2009, from hittracker:

j. bay 398.0, 394.6, 398.1, 389.9
m. hol 408.8, 410.8, 418.1, 406.6

If Molina is part of plans A, B and C, doesn't that mean that Molina is Plan A?

That's a bad Plan A.

I love the "bay has loft" argument. Avg standard distance for home runs, 2006-2009, from hittracker:

j. bay 398.0, 394.6, 398.1, 389.9
m. hol 408.8, 410.8, 418.1, 406.6

How much of that is park driven? Coors has fairly large dimensions while PNC and Fenway are both relatively small. Obviously that is only half the games but it would seem to me that a player who plays in Coors is likely to need to have home runs go a long way simply because they aren't home runs otherwise while a guy in PNC or (especially) Fenway is going to get the occasional 325 foot homer. Does the median rather than the mean tell a different story? If Bay's numbers are skewed by some abnormally short homers but he hits as many 425 foot homers as Holliday that would be revealing. Or maybe Holliday does legitimately hit the ball further than Bay.

It also, even if taken at face value, doesn't speak to whether Bay is a pull hitter with loft. At most, it says is that Holliday hits the ball further.

I like to imagine the mystery team as having question marks all over their uniforms, like the Riddler. They don't play a set schedule - just show up outside the park, ready to take on all comers.

Would it be too much to ask for a plan that didn't involve Molina?

Roy Halladay was Plan C? The Mets never had any chance to get him, but that seems kind of silly.

They were cleaning out some old offices in Shea and they found a few of the magic beans left over from the Santana trade in the back of a desk drawer. They figured "well, it might be enough, but just to be safe we should probably also sign Molina."

Yes, loft means height, not distance.

B-Ref has a type of hit location in the splits section.

Bay - pulled 65 hits with 12 2B and 22 HR going to LF
Up middle - 65 hits 14 2B and 12 HR
Right field - 12 hits 3 2B and 2 HR

Holliday - pulled 59 hits 14 2B and 6 HR
Up middle - 89 hits 19 2B and 14 HR
Right field - 34 hits 6 2B and 4 HR

In 2006, Bay's last full good season in the NL, his HR distribution was
LF: 14
CF: 17
RF: 4

So, part of his pull tendencies were seemingly learned to take advantage of the short wall in Fenway. I don't think that's a knock on Bay - seems like a good hitter uses his home park to his advantage - but it is not that he is a born pull hitter.

It's hard not to be cynical here. The Mets seem like they're hell-bent on signing one big name FA merely to bolster pre-season sales of season tickets and other plans. It's irrelevant that Bay may or may not improve the team for now or the next few years, or that the team has many holes and could be improved by modest signings and trades.

Also, if you're going to select a FA based on your ballpark, why not reconfigure the ballpark to help Wright get back on track and then select a FA based on those new dimensions?

How much of that is park driven? Coors has fairly large dimensions while PNC and Fenway are both relatively small.

The other park issue at Coors is the altitude. I imagine the ball flies further at altitude, other things being equal. Of course, other things aren't equal, in that it's also very dry. I don't know if that makes the ball go further or not.

It's early to make a pick in the Derby, but I'm not so sure about Bay. I'm going with the bobtail nag.

To show that I'm not THAT cynical, I'd like to say that I like the idea of getting Bay; and I remain am optimistic that such an acquisition will be a benefit for at least three of those five years.

It's early to make a pick in the Derby, but I'm not so sure about Bay. I'm going with the bobtail nag.

A Stephen Foster reference. You're even more retro than I am.

So, part of his pull tendencies were seemingly learned to take advantage of the short wall in Fenway. I don't think that's a knock on Bay - seems like a good hitter uses his home park to his advantage - but it is not that he is a born pull hitter.

Or it's another small piece of evidence that age is creeping up. It wasn't huge, but his K-rate went up last year as did his walk rate (though it's similar to 2005-6). Ks, BBs, "cheating" to pull pitches and bad defense are all characteristics of "old man skills". None of the changes are anywhere near big enough to conclude anything and they could be Fenway-driven ... and he stil steals a reasonable number of bases at a good percentage which is not "old man" territory.

Bay is a guy I'm really having trouble coming to a conclusion on.

Jason Bay's Mystery Team

Jason's just hoping he will open the door to his .....

Are the Mets the worst run team in baseball? Sure the Royals are worse but they aren't a real team. So maybe I should say, are the Mets the worst run seemingly relevant team in baseball? I have to think they are.

Are the Mets the worst run team in baseball? Sure the Royals are worse but they aren't a real team. So maybe I should say, are the Mets the worst run seemingly relevant team in baseball? I have to think they are.

It's hard to tell, if you look at payrolls over the past 10 years the Orioles would also have to be in the running.

Just to be a killjoy, but I would love for
1: The Mets offer of 10/2 to be the bets that Bengie receives
2: For Bengie to keep asking 20/3
3: For the Mets to trade for someone
4: Bengie signs with someone for 1.5/1

I don't think that makes you a killjoy, JPWF13. I think it means you want there to be some slight glimmer of karma actually put on display for all the world to see. It would be best of all if the trade the Mets make is actually a good one and the catcher they acquire vastly outperforms Molina.

3: For the Mets to trade for someone

Are there any catchers out there who are both available for trade and actually worth trading for (and for whom the Mets have sufficient trading chits)?

Are the Mets the worst run team in baseball? Sure the Royals are worse but they aren't a real team. So maybe I should say, are the Mets the worst run seemingly relevant team in baseball? I have to think they are.

It's hard to tell, if you look at payrolls over the past 10 years the Orioles would also have to be in the running.

There are plenty of worse and stupider things that happen in baseball on a daily basis than hoping Frenchy can sustain something approaching decency. Something stupider happened TODAY. Everyone likes to make Omar and the Mets a whipping boy, but it sounds mostly like self-aggrandizement. When was the last Zito deal? When was the last Matthews Jr. deal? When was the last Silva deal? When was the last Pierre deal? Carp about Perez, but Lowe is looking just as bad.

Carp about Perez

Don't worry. We will.

Are there any catchers out there who are both available for trade and actually worth trading for (and for whom the Mets have sufficient trading chits)?

Chris Snyder has been rumored to be on the trading block. Prior to Salty getting hurt Taylor Teagarden might have been a potential target. If the White Sox determine Tyler Flowers is ready then AJ Pierzynski might be available.

Maybe MLB should create a 31st team, and everyone can 'trade' all their bad contracts to that team. Imagine if a team of Juan Pierre, Andruw Jones, Carlos Silva, Vernon Wells, etc. all playing together, and competing against everyone else. They could even be located in Montreal!

Chris Snyder has been rumored to be on the trading block.

But do teams really want to take a risk on a catcher who missed a large part of last year with an injury requiring back surgery, who is also carrying a $5M+ price tag?

As to the others, you might be right, but I don't know if AJ Pierzynski is really all that great a bet to outperform Molina anymore either.

When was the last Zito deal? When was the last Matthews Jr. deal? When was the last Silva deal? When was the last Pierre deal? Carp about Perez, but Lowe is looking just as bad.

Well, the Mets do a whole lot of stupid stuff that is collectively pretty frustrating. There may not be one incredibly asinine thing of the Zito contract level you can pin on Omar and the current regime, but . . .

1) If you look at the Wilpon ownership more generally, you see a long-term pattern of undermining every single GM by not establishing a clear line of authority, allowing players, front office assistants, and coaches to get the ear of management/ownership. This consistent motif has played out in a way that has explained, in whole or in part, any number of bad things that have happened, from trades that should never have been made to signings to the bizarreness that was Tony Bernazard.

2) The longstanding and still-current refusal to utilize the Mets' financial position to maximize their ability to draft and sign the best possible amateur talent, presumably to stay in good with Seligula.

3) The mismanagement of injuries, together with signing too many players (usually but not always bench players) who are strong candidates for injuries, has left the Mets vulnerable to being left short-handed when they can least afford it. I'm talking about Moises Alou; I'm talking about the handling of concussions and hammys.

4) The team is simply too thin-skinned. They are perpetually listening to, reacting to, and making decisions as a result of, criticism from the media instead of doing what is right for the long-term interests of the franchise. That is the biggest reason why they make short-term decisions.

Sometimes well-run, competent franchises do really stupid things. The fact that the Braves traded for Mike Hampton and got burned didn't make them poorly run. I could live with even a galactically stupid move or two if the Mets were generally doing smart things. They aren't.

then AJ Pierzynski might be available.

Oddly, I wouldn't really be against this.

WAR starting in '09 and going back

AJP - 2.5, 2.0, 1.5
Bengie - 1,8, 2.9, 1.9

OPS+

AJP - 94, 88, 83
Bengie - 86, 98, 86

Cot's lists AJ's contract as $6.25 in the final year of a three-year deal with no buyout. He does nave an NTC, though.

Finally, AJ is two years younger than Molina.

Are there any catchers out there who are both available for trade and actually worth trading for (and for whom the Mets have sufficient trading chits)?

Buck could have been had, someone else mentioned Snyder, Colo seems to have soured on Iannetta (They REALLY seem to be judging him by batting average and not OPS or OPS+ or EQA or anything that would make sense)
Olivo, Hanigan, Paulino


Hell I'd waive Frenchy, Castillo, Parnell and a couple $mil at Sabean and ask for Posey :-)

Finally, AJ is two years younger than Molina.

And isn't as slow as a 300 lb. slab of holiday fruitcake.

I don't covet AJ, but anything is better than Molina.

Hell I'd waive Frenchy, Castillo, Parnell and a couple $mil at Sabean and ask for Posey :-)

Sabean will laugh that off. The players you are offering are too young to be proven winners.

Plan A was Bay and catcher Bengie Molina, Plan B was John Lackey and Molina and Plan C was Roy Halladay and Molina

The thing I found interesting about this is that it follows exactly what some folks here say about Omar. He puts a plan together and follows it in order through to the end. So in this case, he won't even consider anything other than Bay until he either gets Bay or Bay signs somewhere else. If it's the latter, then he'll move on, but discover that Lackey and Halladay are gone.

Colo seems to have soured on Iannetta

The Rox bought out Iannetta's arb years (3/$8.3 with a $5 M option on year 4) so they seem to have un-soured on him. (Surprised me a bit.)

Of course, that looks like a pretty nice contract (if the going price for the Kendalls/Molinas of the year are in the $3-6 M a year range) and makes Iannetta a very valuable piece in a trade.

@43: we've had the discussion about how the offseason is an extremely compicated game of extremely high stakes poker and that while a linear approach is a useful part of any larger combination of moves, when the linear approach is the only approach you've got you're bound to be outplayed.

There is a reason that many believe Heyman is on Boras' payroll

Boras doesn't represent Bay. Weird, I know.

There is a reason that many believe Heyman is on Boras' payroll

Facts, shmacts!