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Well, anyway, the Twins are now even more screwed than before.
When I first heard it, I assumed he would be the DH and Martinez would be traded away. But I guess Cabrera's going to be... the left fielder? The third baseman? Yikes.
They're certainly constructed to win right now, so I guess I can't fault them for going all out when they have the chance.
Where are they going to stick Delmon Young if Cabrera is now standing out in left?
Or what JJ1986 said.
Toledo.
I wrote something similar in the other thread. If folks really understood the depth of Prince's animus toward his father then this signing makes a lot of sense from his perspective.
Of course, the money had to be there as well.
Making Detroit forget about his father has to have some appeal
Well, they did have to outbid the Nats, at least.
I am not sure what's funnier: the deal, or the Primates who always talk smack about Scott Boras. Yes, I know Boras overshoots sometimes, but when he hits his target, he obliterates it.
After that, they have to pay Prince Fielder almost 150 million dollars to be their 30-something DH.
I guess, but their association with Prince this off-season has seemed more like a marriage for lack of other options rather than one of genuine interest on Washington's part.
I demand a Super Nintendo.
Won't this get his dad back in the spotlight? I have to imagine every series this year is going to have the visiting announcer saying "Prince Fielder, back in the town his dad played in..." with stuff about the dad/son connection...seems like the worst place to go to if he wants to erase memories of his dad.
Yeah...though that's a pretty ugly thing to aspire to. I hope Prince is better than that.
I guess we don't really know. A lot of teams are able to keep their interest in a play pretty darn quiet..
For this offseason, who's the bigger overpay: Prince or Papelbon?
Yea, which is why its always stupid to have the analysis "there is nowhere for Elite FA X to go, all the other high spending clubs are filled at his position!" You can always make room for premium players.
TWO ####### HUNDRED AND FOURTEEN ####### *MILLION* ####### dollars has to have some appeal.
Unless you think that he arranged the injury to VMart, this is a much better example of luck bailing Boras' ass out than of his incredible negotiating brilliance.
Of course, as you note, he did end up bringing in the cash in the end.
Ugh. They're both ugly. But Papelbon's signing has two things over Prince's: 1) It's not for five years and 2) It's nowhere near $100 million, much less $214 million. So I guess I have to say Prince.
Prince Fielder hates his father enough that he COULD aspire to that..
But then you have to give him credit for the fact that Yankees and Sox were booked at 1st, Pujols was on (and then off) the market, and the Dodgers and Mets are a mess. This was the absolute WORST year for Prince to be on the market in the first place.
Think of him what you will but Prince's negative feelings toward his dad run deep.
I think we need to reassess our opinion of the competence of MLB GMs.
It's pretty clear to me that they don't really know much more than the average educated fan. The fact that Boras keeps suckering them, means they're no better negotiators or business men than the average educated fan.
I want to reiterate my claim that the all BBTF front office staff wouldn't be any worse than middle of the pack.
This signing is so godawful it should be a firable offense.
He'll be 28 in May. And there's that body, you know.
1. Damon DH
2. Boesch RF
3. Cabrera 3B
4. Fielder 1B
5. Young LF
6. Avila C
7. Peralta SS
8. Raburn/Santiago 2B
9. Jackson CF
He's 27, his defense is already below average, he's slow as molasses, and he appears to be made entirely of ham and jello. Everything about him warns of the possibility of him aging incredibly poorly, and there's likely to be some roster issues next year with him, VMart, and Cabrera only having two lineup spots for three people.
With that being said, I agree that it's not exactly terrible, since the Tigers have to be thinking about winning now, rather than worrying about figuring a way out to contend in 2016 and later.
Not seeing it. If Prince had signed in Detroit for 3/45 after Martinez went down, OK. But if this report is accurate, he is going to sign for 9/214.
Edit: And what Kronic said up there in post 48.
I did mention that the money had to be there.
RJ
His defense is worse than below average.
Baserunning value numbers are based on simple calculations - we're not talking about the difficulties of properly measuring play-by-play fielding. B-Ref has Fielder typically 5-10 runs below average on the bases. You can quibble with the defensive numbers as you wish, but I don't think anyone's seriously considering Fielder to be a good or even solidly average glove.
So, when you consider the quality of his bat, you have to cut 10-20 runs off that figure for defense and baserunning. He projects as maybe a $20M player right now, and he certainly doesn't project to be that good five years from now.
His defense is worse than below average.
I'm not surprised to hear this. I was trying to stay on the conservative side in my criticism of his defense, since I haven't seen him play much. I'll cheerfully defer to your knowledge in this matter.
I think most of the complaints is all about the body, because nobody big ever had a lengthy dominant career, it's the string beans like Pedro Martinez who last forever.
(sorry about the age, just going off of memory, but still I should have said going into his 27 age season as I knew he wasn't 26--still would have been wrong though)
I just don't see the issue, for five years he'll probably at worse be a break even candidate. Fangraphs dollar war value system, even though it is flawed, ultimately shows that in order to get a 25 mil value player you have to pay for more years, that is how the system is allowed to pay mlb players on a linear scale, when talent is on an exponential scale.
Holy cripes-Boras has finally mastered the Jedi Mind Trick.
How the hell does he drum up that much loot for that long when there's no freaking competition in the market? This makes the Arod contract look almost sane.
Uh, don't you think ownership signed off on this?
The GM is a junior partner in these kinds of deals. This is driven by executives and ownership.
I don't think it's a bad signing. If you're the Tigers you bite the bullet on the out years with the goal towards winning a World Series in the first five. There is a very good chance that the last three-four years of this deal are laughably bad, like Mo Vaughn with the Mets bad.
Arod's contract was sane, a more apt comparison is that this deal is only slightly better than the Ryan Howard deal.
Owners like to THINK they are good negotiators. Typically, they stink.
For those not aware this approach is termed "Hitting the C-suite" or similar references to only speaking to folks with C in their title. CEO. COO. Avoid the CFO who will think any expenditure is a bad idea.
Sorry if I am boring anyone. But what Scott is doing is VERY common as a Sales approach in corporate American and is typically ignored.
That's a sane offer.
Pujols: 10yr/$240 mill
Fielder: 9yr/$214 mill
Teixeira: 8yr/$180 mill
Gonzalez: 7yr/$154 mill
Howard: 5yr/$125 mill
Boy, that Gonzalez contract looks pretty good.
After that, well, who knows what will happen in 2015? Maybe baseball will be eclipsed by blurnsball. Maybe Detroit will be sucked into the mirror universe. Maybe President-for-life Avakian will make profit-takings of all kinds illegal. Gather ye rosebuds while ye may, says Dave Dombrowski.
Wait, didn't you just say that this deal seemed okay to you? And isn't the Ryan Howard deal generally viewed as a potential screaming disaster? There seems to be a mild mismatch here.
Then I'm more qualified than they are to run an MLB team.
More ammunition for those who claim wealth is largely obtained by luck and theft, rather than intelligence and acumen.
I'm reeling from the numbers.
I see your points above CFB re the contract, and actually agree with some of them-my main beef is who the hell else was gonna pay anything close to those figures.
I said Arod because it reminded me of a team bidding against themselves.
Playing first base is also a pretty good way to obtain wealth.
I don't know -- even setting aside the defense and such, this is nearly Pujols money and even just limiting it to offensive contributions, he's clearly a notch below Pujols.... He's generally been top 10/top 5 in oWAR, OPS+, etc... but there's virtually no black ink there. I know he's had Pujols to deal with, but for 20something mil a year - I'm expecting something more.
At this price, no way in the world I'd have wanted my team involved.
The deal seems good to me based upon the standards that baseball has established, and there is no reason for me to think it won't be a break even deal for the first 4-5 years for the Tigers. Ultimately though the last couple of years are major risks of being a Moo Vaughn type of deal. I think it's a much better deal than the Ryan Howard deal, but I know that the people around here will view it as on par or worse. I was trying to put it into the terms that people around here might view it.
But yes I think the Ryan Howard deal was a horrible signing, not a Gary Mathews bad signing, but still a bad deal for multiple reasons, but the Phillies can afford to make bad moves like that(same with the Yankees)
On the other hand, Miggy in left isn't pretty sight, but to be worse than Delmon Young would have to involve both a couch and a blindfold.
Actually, he'll be 28 in May. (Edit: Sorry, should have read down further; cokes all around.) I think one perception is that it is problematic from the standpoint of the Tigers already having a good hit/no field 1B. That's less of a problem for them though as one can DH.
I also think many people believe Prince will not age well. This is possible, but you have to admit he's been healthy and an everyday player thus far. I'm very impressed by how much he plays each year.
I do wonder how many times we as fans/observers feel this is the case when it may not actually be the case. The teams that lose out on the bidding don't always want to advertise how high they were willing to go, or even how serious they were in case they had someone already at that position or an up and comer, or it tells the fans that they were willing to up their payroll.
I do find it hard to believe that Fielder/Boras would have even answered a phone call that didn't put 125mil and an annual value over 20 mil out there. I'm pretty sure that if Boras would have walked into a room with 30 gms and say "the first person to put their name on this 6 year, 150 mil contract gets him" that he wouldn't have multiple gms jumping at that chance. There was a floor that Fielder was going to get and that seems about it. It's just a matter of getting the (relatively) incremental amounts over that.
Watching the playoffs I was just struck by how huge Cabrera is. He was always a big boy but he seems to have considerably grown since he left Florida. If he does play any 3B, it will be very interesting to see how he fields a bunt.
Not to be morbid, but Illitch can't really wait forever. He's getting up there.
I laughed.
This. The small handful of times I've considered quitting or 'moving on' are the few times where the "CEO" was bamboozled by the seller.
Not that I heard of. But Dombrowski is excellent at keeping quiet. You rarely hear rumors coming out of Detroit. And if you do, they're probably wrong.
Not that I heard of, I honestly think the Victor Martinez injury was the more likely factor. Then Detroit decided instead of putting a band-aid on something....
That is what I honestly think is the driving focus on anything with Fielder. I don't agree with it, he's been healthy, his weight has been pretty steady (more or less) for his whole career, it's not like he's Tony Gwynn or Kirby Puckett going from a fit guy to a not so fit guy, but a guy who has always been big, has always had questions about his physique, and who has ultimately proven that it's not an issue. If he had Andruw Jones in the last couple of years where he just ballooned up overnight it would concern me, but since that isn't the case, the only real concern is how he is going to handle himself now that he's signed his (likely)last contract. He wouldn't be the first player (of any size) to let themselves go after a big(no pun) contract. Personally, I don't see it in him to let himself go like that, everything I've seen about him has indicated that he's a guy who is driven, even if he's relaxed about it.
Cabrera has both of these in his dressing room stall right now.
i know i shouldn't say this -- i'll be accused of sour grapes and all -- but the pujols contract still looks like the biggest overpay.
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