Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, December 29, 2017

Heyman | Yankees Eyeing Yu Darvish

The “reasonable” part might not be reasonable to Darvish.

New York Yankees people do like Yu Darvish, and at a reasonable price, he will be seriously considered. It seems everyone’s strategy this year is to wait for the price to drop.

The Yankees are intent on adding a fine starting pitcher and have had trade discussions regarding Gerrit Cole, Chris Archer and Michael Fulmer, and are looking at free agent Alex Cobb, and possibly some others. Cole is probably the most likely fit in terms of a trade, as Fulmer is coming off an injury and Archer plays on the division rival Rays, but word is, there’s been little progress since the Winter Meetings in talks with Pittsburgh.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 29, 2017 at 08:57 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees, yu darvish

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 29, 2017 at 09:07 AM (#5598438)
Between this and the "Yankees warn they aren't done" article it sounds like agents are getting squirrelly and are playing the ol' "the Yankees are interested in everyone!" card. I'm not saying it's the wrong strategy but it's the mystery team gambit.
   2. Blastin Posted: December 29, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5598440)
I mean they dont seem to have actually said anything. Who ISN'T interested if they all drop their price?
   3. Bug Selig Posted: December 29, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5598589)
Who ISN'T interested if they all drop their price?
Miami.
   4. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 29, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5598592)
I'd love to see the Yanks go after Darvish and/or Fulmer, the others not so much.
   5. GeoffB Posted: December 29, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5598601)
I'm fine with this, but it means dumping Robertson or Gardner for salary relief.
   6. Walt Davis Posted: December 29, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5598652)
Can we please at least put "relief" in quotes? "-)
   7. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: December 29, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5598662)
@4 - Why would the Tigers trade Fulmer, though?
   8. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 29, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5598674)
@7 - If reports of the Yankee offer that they already turned down are at all close to accurate, they won't.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 29, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5598678)
@4 - Why would the Tigers trade Fulmer, though?

I think they'd be crazy to trade him, and the only reason I can think of would be a combination of a great (and unlikely) offer and a worry about the injury that cut short his season.
   10. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 29, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5598690)
@4 - Why would the Tigers trade Fulmer, though?
Everybody is (or should be) available at the right price.
   11. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: December 29, 2017 at 07:37 PM (#5598718)
Everybody is (or should be) available at the right price.

Well, sure, but from the Tigers' perspective I should think he's one of the players to build around, not to send off for more prospects-- especially with him being only a couple of years removed from being a prospect himself (even aside from the salary/team control aspect)-- or quality veterans. Note I have no idea how the Tigers are thinking in terms of rebuilding or not this offseason.

@8 - I'm curious now what the Yankee offer was; I don't think I knew they'd actually made one. I'd thought it was all just typical Yankee-tilted hot stove stuff.
   12. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 29, 2017 at 09:16 PM (#5598743)
Not sure I believe it, but the Yankees reportedly offered Frazier, Adams, Wade, Estrada and another pitcher. Like I said, if the Tigers really didn't think that was enough, then they're not trading him.
   13. Stormy JE Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5598766)
Archer plays on the division rival Rays,
Where's the evidence that the Rays won't deal with a division rival?
   14. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 29, 2017 at 11:42 PM (#5598778)
Per BBRef the Beckham to Baltimore trade last year is the only one the Rays have made in the last decade with a division partner. Doesn’t mean they won’t of course and if the offer is right they SHOULD but they haven’t made many in-division deals over the years.
   15. rconn23 Posted: December 31, 2017 at 06:24 PM (#5599141)
I'm sure the Tigers want Torres included in a package for Fulmer. They should, and the Yankees should turn them down. I'd wait and see what the price is on Alex Cobb.
   16. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: January 01, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5599237)
"The Yankees are intent on adding a fine starting pitcher and have had trade discussions regarding Gerrit Cole, Chris Archer, Max Scherzer, Clayton Kershaw, Roger Clemens, Bob Gibson, Whitey Ford, Babe Ruth, Christy Mathewson and Jim Creighton."
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 01, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5599245)
I'm sure the Tigers want Torres included in a package for Fulmer. They should, and the Yankees should turn them down. I'd wait and see what the price is on Alex Cobb.

It's just an idea that makes no sense. Why would a team that has 5 major league SPs, plus 2 ready, or near ready, highly ranked SP prospects (Adams and Sheffield) but no 2B or 3B, trade a consensus top-2 prospect who can play those positions for another SP?
   18. rconn23 Posted: January 01, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5599331)
I'm not saying that the Yankees should trade Torres. I don't think they should. But the Tigers would likely demand Torres for Fulmer.

They do need another pitcher, however. Severino seems like the real deal, but CC and Tanaka are always injury concerns. I'm not sold on Adams. Sheffield has a much higher ceiling and he's a little farther away. Cobb would be a perfect mid-rotation fit at the right price.
   19. Blastin Posted: January 01, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5599345)
I think they need one too. I don't think they need an ACE. Anyone can pitch like an ace for a few weeks. Tanaka did. But they need another guy in 2018. Doesn't mean trade Torres etc etc nor does it have to be Cole. Cobb at a good price? Someone mid range.
   20. Blastin Posted: January 01, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5599346)
I'd say midrange starter and a low-end 3B.
   21. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 01, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5599395)
They do need another pitcher, however. Severino seems like the real deal, but CC and Tanaka are always injury concerns. I'm not sold on Adams. Sheffield has a much higher ceiling and he's a little farther away. Cobb would be a perfect mid-rotation fit at the right price.

I really don't see the need.

Run with Severino, Tanaka, Gray (all three of whom are no worse than strong #2 starter), Sabathia and Montgomery. If someone gets hurt you've got Adams, Sheffield, and even Cessa is not terrible. They can always make a trade in June if they need an arm.

Paying a bunch in prospects or money to push Montgomery to AAA just doesn't improve the team enough.

I'd say midrange starter and a low-end 3B.

I'd much rather get a better 3B. If you must get a SP for depth, get a fringy guy who's happy to start out in long relief.
   22. Khrushin it bro Posted: January 01, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5599403)
I thought Gray was a #3 or #4 starter before he was a Yankee.
   23. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: January 01, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5599406)
I thought Gray was a #3 or #4 starter before he was a Yankee.


He'd had some injury problems, but he was far better than that.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5599440)

He'd had some injury problems, but he was far better than that.


A career 115 ERA+/86 ERA- is borderline #1. Last year 25 qualified pitchers achieved it. In 2016, 28 did. 2015, also 28.

I'd dock him a bit for the injury history and call him a solid #2.
   25. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5599444)
I wouldn't make pitching my priority if I was the Yankees but you never, ever have enough pitching. My philosophy on pitching is this. If you think you have enough pitching follow the following steps;

1. Say "we don't need any more pitching."

2. Punch yourself in the face as hard as you can.

3. Repeat until your body will not let you use the phrase "we don't need any more pitching."
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5599457)
I wouldn't make pitching my priority if I was the Yankees but you never, ever have enough pitching. My philosophy on pitching is this. If you think you have enough pitching follow the following steps;

1. Say "we don't need any more pitching."

2. Punch yourself in the face as hard as you can.

3. Repeat until your body will not let you use the phrase "we don't need any more pitching."


You can never insure against a season where you lose 3 of your 4 best pitchers for prolonged periods of time. You just have to accept that, if that happens, the season is lost. If you get less than 300 IP from Severino, Tanaka, and Gray, you're not making the playoffs. Just face it.

Accumulating MLB mid-rotation quality arms to be your 6th and 7th starters, is just going to be a horrendous waste of resources, the vast majority of the time.
   27. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5599462)
And throwing a couple of your 6th-9th starters into a trade for a mid-rotation guy doesn't really do anything to hedge against losing 3 of your top 4.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5599465)
And throwing a couple of your 6th-9th starters into a trade for a mid-rotation guy doesn't really do anything to hedge against losing 3 of your top 4.

Exactly.
   29. Rally Posted: January 02, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5599495)
Accumulating MLB mid-rotation quality arms to be your 6th and 7th starters, is just going to be a horrendous waste of resources, the vast majority of the time.


Generally you build up that depth with good prospects who have minor league options left. Very hard to do on the free agent market since pitchers who are mid-rotation in quality will prefer to sign with a team that will actually put them in the middle of the rotation.
   30. Blastin Posted: January 02, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5599498)
Fair enough. I think a higher-end 3b is a good idea but.... who will come for a short deal?
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5599509)
Fair enough. I think a higher-end 3b is a good idea but.... who will come for a short deal?

We just don't know. Nobody has signed yet. It stands to reason someone will be left out in the cold. And, it doesn't have to be a 3B. It can be a 2B and Torres plays 3B for a year.

Neil Walker or Todd Frazier seem to be the best players who could be jobless on Feb. 1.
   32. Blastin Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5599516)
I would accept either. And I suspect that's exactly what they will wait for.

also, wow, Feb 1st is not that far away.
   33. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5599738)
Neil Walker or Todd Frazier seem to be the best players who could be jobless on Feb. 1.


I was working on the theory that the Pirates would sign Walker by Christmas, because he can sell some tickets in Pittsburgh. Hasn't worked out yet, but there's another Christmas in a few days.
   34. Khrushin it bro Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5599760)
Some fans were arguing about all of Gray's pitfalls in this thread. At least one post even saying he'd be the #3 or #4 starter on the Yankees.
   35. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5599804)
Some fans were arguing about all of Gray's pitfalls in this thread. At least one post even saying he'd be the #3 or #4 starter on the Yankees.

Here's one post from that thread that was particularly prescient:

I'd love to see the Yankees make the playoffs, but they've got a good chance of doing that anyway, and Sonny Gray isn't any more likely to get them past Houston or Cleveland than a Tanaka who's found his command along with a bullpen that can back up 5 or 6 innings from Sabathia or Montgomery. If Tanaka's found his groove, then along with Severino they're capable of competing against anyone in a short series as long as Judge, Frazier and Sanchez don't all go into a strikeout funk. Sonny Gray doesn't really change any of that.

In truth, with one major exception, all of the main BTF Yankee fans seemed to agree on this point.

And let's go to the video:

Gray's 2017 postseason record: 2 games, 8.1 innings, 4.32 ERA, 6 K's.

Sabathia's 2017 postseason record: 4 games, 19 innings, 2.37 ERA, 19 K's.

Tanaka's 2017 postseason record: 3 games, 20 innings, 0.90 ERA, 18 K's.
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5599805)
Some fans were arguing about all of Gray's pitfalls in this thread. At least one post even saying he'd be the #3 or #4 starter on the Yankees.

I argued that he was clearly better than Sabathia, but not worth top prospects.

He's clearly better, but it's closer than you want to believe. Since 2015: Sabathia 440 IP, 104 ERA+, 7.4 K/9, 3.1 BB/9, 1.2 HR/9. Gray 422 IP, 108 ERA+, 7.6 K/9, 2.8 BB/9, 0.9 HR/9.

That difference is not worth several excellent prospects.



Better sure. But not Torres or Frazier, better.

If they can get Gray with 2 guys from their #6-10 prospects and some filler, great. If not, pass.

The Yankees don't need Gray. They've got a pretty good shot at the playoffs without him.


It worked out pretty much the way I called it.

And being the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on a playoff team often means you are a #2 guy in context of the whole league.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Traderdave
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogESPN's top 50 players
(29 - 10:18am, Apr 22)
Last: Blastin

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)
(37 - 10:16am, Apr 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)
(2366 - 10:03am, Apr 22)
Last: PJ Martinez

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1942 Ballot
(3 - 9:28am, Apr 22)
Last: Chris Fluit

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1942 Discussion
(11 - 9:27am, Apr 22)
Last: Chris Fluit

NewsblogOTP 2018 Apr 16: Beto strikes out but is a hit at baseball fundraiser
(1223 - 9:12am, Apr 22)
Last: Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent

NewsblogBBTF ANNUAL CENTRAL PARK SOFTBALL GAME 2018
(63 - 8:48am, Apr 22)
Last: Blastin

NewsblogNYTimes: Now Batting in Class AA: Biggio, Bichette and Guerrero
(7 - 8:28am, Apr 22)
Last: Greg K

NewsblogWhite Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar in critical condition after suffering ruptured aneurysm
(8 - 3:45am, Apr 22)
Last: ptodd

NewsblogLook at the size of this WEEKEND OMNICHATTER!, for April 21-22, 2018
(125 - 1:42am, Apr 22)
Last: Perry

NewsblogBryan Price dismissed as Reds manager | MLB.com
(97 - 10:02pm, Apr 21)
Last: Panic

NewsblogWhy the drop in home runs in 2018? Major League Baseball had better hope it’s the weather.
(12 - 9:43pm, Apr 21)
Last: Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network)

NewsblogCallaway says Harvey might not make his next start after performance in 12-4 loss to Braves
(5 - 9:22pm, Apr 21)
Last: Adam Starblind

NewsblogAngell: Night Moves
(3 - 8:12pm, Apr 21)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

Sox TherapyAre The Angels A Real Team?
(18 - 7:57pm, Apr 21)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine

Page rendered in 0.2236 seconds
47 querie(s) executed