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Monday, July 25, 2011

Hofmann: Hall of Fame induction speech was 100% Bill Conlin

Oh, I like you too, and to tell you the truth
That was my bill1chair after all…

My endangered industry faces far more complex problems. Unlike major league baseball, newspapers are not awash in money. We’ve been shot at and hit. The way we did things for centuries literally vanished in a few mouse clicks.

We came late to the party, trying to keep pace with a technology so powerful a government can be toppled by a thousand protesters with smart phones, Facebook accounts and a common cause. Picture the nation’s Founding Fathers using Wigbook to convene the First Continental Congress, or Thomas Jefferson quilling daily blogs, or Patrick Henry tweeting, “Liberty or Death LOL.”

By the time our corporate big brains heeded the tsunami sirens, the cyber-ship had capsized.

...One last thing: Please get Pete Rose off Main Street and into the Hall. Keep the ban for the compulsive gambler we met in the Dowd Report. But enshrine the guy who played with his hair on fire, the overachiever who lashed those 4,256 hits.

Commissioner Selig, tear down that Ban!

Repoz Posted: July 25, 2011 at 10:39 AM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history, media, site news, special topics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Bhaakon Posted: July 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM (#3884610)
But enshrine the guy who played with his hair on fire, the overachiever who lashed those 4,256 hits.


I don't care about he gambling, I just don't want the children growing up thinking it's OK to play the game like Rose did, or think that sheer quantity's a good substitute for quality.
   2. Bob Evans Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:28 PM (#3884615)
By the time our corporate big brains heeded the tsunami sirens, the cyber-ship had capsized.

he wrote, lighting up a big ol' cigar in satisfaction
   3. dejarouehg Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:27 PM (#3884744)
I just don't want the children growing up thinking it's OK to play the game like Rose did, or think that sheer quantity's a good substitute for quality.


What is wrong with how Rose played the game?

He may be an unpleasant, money-grubbing sociopath, but he played the game clean and hard.

Your assertion that he was a compiler is off the mark. You could make the argument that for the last 3 or so year of his career that he was compiling, but his numbers were pretty substantial at that point.

I'm not a Pete Rose fan and never have been, but that's b/c I was a Bud Harrelson fan.

If my kid plays like Pete Rose did, I'll have no complaints.
   4. dejarouehg Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:27 PM (#3884745)
I did just miss seeing his 3 home run game against the Mets by one day. Nothing better than going to Shea for $1.50 for a General Admission seat and watching teams like the Reds.
   5. Dale Sams Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:32 PM (#3884748)
or think that sheer quantity's a good substitute for quality.


Well it's a GD good thing *you* wern't in charge of the Soviet Union during WW2 or we'd all be speaking German!
   6. Bob Tufts Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:34 PM (#3884749)
One last thing: Please get Pete Rose off Main Street and into the Hall. Keep the ban for the compulsive gambler we met in the Dowd Report. But enshrine the guy who played with his hair on fire, the overachiever who lashed those 4,256 hits.


But you cannot split the two - per the Dowd Report (page 4), Rose bet on baseball games in 1985 and 1986 when he was still an active player, not just a manager.


Conlin should have stopped with "please get Pete Rose off Main Street....." and I would have agreed with him for the first time ever.
   7. spike Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:36 PM (#3884752)
If my kid plays like Pete Rose did, I'll have no complaints.

If my kid writes like Conlin I'll be majorly pissed though.
   8. tshipman Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:03 PM (#3884764)
What the hell is this article about? Is it just another lame Pete Rose for the Hall article?
   9. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:10 PM (#3884769)
If my kid plays like Pete Rose did, I'll have no complaints.

Big fan of outs on the basepaths, are you?
   10. BDC Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3884774)
All y'all who somehow believe that Pete Rose was not much of a ballplayer must be clicking on Pete Jr. when searching for Rose on B-Ref :) Let's just keep him out of the Hall of Fame, make fun of his hair and his Aqua Velva commercials, and leave it at that; no sense rewriting history to make him seem less than a great baseball player.
   11. Greg K Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:31 PM (#3884785)
Picture the nation’s Founding Fathers using Wigbook to convene the First Continental Congress, or Thomas Jefferson quilling daily blogs, or Patrick Henry tweeting, “Liberty or Death LOL.”

Didn't the media technology of the printed word play a big role in the American Revolution? Since Luther it's been fairly mandatory for "the little guy" in cultural/political warfare to utilize media technology in order to win.
   12. spike Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:36 PM (#3884793)
Conlin is no fan of "the little guy", literally or metaphorically
   13. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:45 PM (#3884797)
My endangered industry faces far more complex problems. Unlike major league baseball, newspapers are not awash in money. We’ve been shot at and hit. The way we did things for centuries literally vanished in a few mouse clicks.

Newspapers have been hit hard from all sides, but here's one paper that's taken a licking and is still alive and ticking:

The Kingdom and the Paywall

---------------------------

All y'all who somehow believe that Pete Rose was not much of a ballplayer must be clicking on Pete Jr. when searching for Rose on B-Ref :) Let's just keep him out of the Hall of Fame, make fun of his hair and his Aqua Velva commercials, and leave it at that; no sense rewriting history to make him seem less than a great baseball player.

This.
   14. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: July 25, 2011 at 06:44 PM (#3884833)
He may be an unpleasant, money-grubbing sociopath, but he played the game clean and hard.

Pete Rose most likely threw ballgames that he played in.

He ran to first on walks, but that doesn't mean he tried his best every time he was out there. It's ridiculous to believe he did.
   15. Steve Treder Posted: July 25, 2011 at 06:52 PM (#3884837)
Let's just keep him out of the Hall of Fame, make fun of his hair and his Aqua Velva commercials, and leave it at that; no sense rewriting history to make him seem less than a great baseball player.

I'm in the camp that supports Rose being excluded from the HOF. That acknowledged, were it not for unredeemable gambling disqualifier, Rose's playing career is of hands-down, slam-dunk, no-brainer, first-ballot HOF caliber. And lord knows he was among the small handful of most exciting players to watch in his or any other era.
   16. Perry Posted: July 25, 2011 at 07:04 PM (#3884845)
I'm in the camp that supports Rose being excluded from the HOF. That acknowledged, were it not for unredeemable gambling disqualifier, Rose's playing career is of hands-down, slam-dunk, no-brainer, first-ballot HOF caliber. And lord knows he was among the small handful of most exciting players to watch in his or any other era.


Amen to that, brother. The article you wrote in '05 is still one of the best pieces I've seen written about him:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/pete-rose-the-ballplayer/
   17. Eugene Freedman Posted: July 25, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3884919)
I was hoping this thread would turn into a Hamilton v. Madison and Jefferson discussion. Maybe we could all change our handles to pseudonyms from Roman history to make our points.
   18. Bhaakon Posted: July 26, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3885122)

What is wrong with how Rose played the game?

He may be an unpleasant, money-grubbing sociopath, but he played the game clean and hard.


Yeah, I want my kids running over catchers in a meaningless exhibition game.

Your assertion that he was a compiler is off the mark. You could make the argument that for the last 3 or so year of his career that he was compiling, but his numbers were pretty substantial at that point.


Hanging on past reason to inch over a record rings artificial. Particularly when the guy who held the record previously had gas left in the tank when he retired (ironically because of game fixing accusations, at least according to the wiki). Rose was a tremendous hitter, but he's hit king because he had a number to shoot for and not because he was better at it thank Cobb.
   19. McCoy Posted: July 26, 2011 at 12:10 AM (#3885128)
Ty Cobb stopped managing because of game fixing allegations not stopped playing because of that.
   20. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 26, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3885137)
I just don't want the children growing up thinking it's OK to play the game like Rose did, or think that sheer quantity's a good substitute for quality.


From 1965 through 1979, Rose got 3063 hits batting .316/.388/.442 and a 130 OPS+. In that time he led the league in runs 4 times, hits 6, doubles 4, batting average 3, OBP twice. He compiled 74 WAR, with 7 seasons of 5 or higher. He was in the top 5 in MVP voting 5 times. That is a no-brainer HOFer, both quality and quantity.
   21. Srul Itza Posted: July 26, 2011 at 12:49 AM (#3885146)
Rose was a tremendous hitter, but he's hit king because he had a number to shoot for and not because he was better at it thank Cobb.


So? Nobody here thinks that Rose was a better hitter or player than Cobb. If anyone outside of here does, that is their problem.

But you don't have to be as good as Cobb to be a worthy Hall of Fame -- unless you want to convert it from the Hall of Fame to the Closet of Fame.
   22. McCoy Posted: July 26, 2011 at 12:58 AM (#3885148)
So you're saying Rose would be out of the Closet?
   23. Jeff R., P***y Mainlander Posted: July 26, 2011 at 01:49 AM (#3885213)

Yeah, I want my kids running over catchers in a meaningless exhibition game.


If it was so meaningless, why did the catcher block the plate? Why not just stand off the plate and do a swipe tag?
   24. Morty Causa Posted: July 26, 2011 at 01:52 AM (#3885218)
Bill Conlin has been honored by the HOF--and people still venerate, even defend, the HOF? Sheesh.
   25. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2011 at 02:08 AM (#3885239)
Bill Conlin has been honored by the HOF--and people still venerate, even defend, the HOF? Sheesh.

Well, no sooner had Conlin won the Spink than the HOF booted moved the non-inductee award winners from the induction ceremony to a new ceremony the day before. Classic.

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