For a stretch of 5-5 years, Murphy was unquestionably the best all-around player in the National League

Tony Gwynn, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines, Pedro Guerrero, Mike Schmidt, and Ryne Sandberg say hello.

When someone says "unquestionably" it usually means there's a lot of questions.

Dan, five minus five equals zero.

At any rate, the trade to the Phillies happened when it was clear that Murphy was no longer anything close to the best player in baseball. The previous two seasons, he had averaged .227 with 22 homers.

Obviously, Guerrero was a disaster with the glove, but he was such a phenomenal hitter for a few years that he's at least in the conversation.

I'd be interested in the context of that Ryan quote. My guess is it's nothing recent, where he'd have the benefit of perspective, but something said in the early to mid 80's when Murphy was at the top of his game.

Ryan's perspective on DiMaggio would be similar to mine on Willie Mays (retired a few years after I was born). In either case, we didn't see those guys play or probably wouldn't remember what we saw if we did. Pretend I was a pitcher in the late 90's, and just had my ass kicked by Ken Griffey Jr, and watched him steal an extrabase hit from a teammate or two. Some reporter asks me after the game about Griffey and yes, I'd probably compare him pretty favorably to Willie Mays.

1982-1986 NL WAR

Carter - 32.2
Schmidt - 31.0
Raines - 27.5
Hernandez - 25.6
Murphy - 24.9

1983-1987

Raines - 31.4
Schmidt - 29.7
Gwynn - 27.4
Murphy - 26.5
Smith - 25.9

1982-1987

Schmidt - 36.8
Raines - 34.1
Carter - 33.0
Murphy - 32.3
Smith - 30.7

Years cherry picked to be most favorable to Murphy. his 1981 WAR was 1.5, 1988 was 2.8

Now, WAR is not the end all, but there certainly is a question. whether he was the best.

of course, the term all around is meant to denote skill in every facet of the game, hitting for average, power, walks, defense, and speed. And if there were some sort of pentathlon of those 5 skills, with each getting equal weight, Maybe Murph would win. Better power than Raines, Smith, and Gwynn. Better speed than Carter, Hernandez, and Schmidt... Let's have a competition among the 7 in all 5 categories, with 7 points for first, 1 point for last.

Average (from 1982-1987):

Gwynn
Raines
Hernandez
Murphy
Schmidt
carter
Smith

Power, in this case home runs.

Murphy
Schmidt
Carter
Hernandez
Raines
Gwynn
Smith

After 2 events:

Murphy - 11
Hernandez - 9
Schmidt - 9
Gwynn - 9
Raines - 9
Carter - 8
Smith - 2

Walks :

Schmidt
Murphy
Hernandez
Raines
Smith
carter
Gwynn

Speed, in this case, SB:

Raines
Smith
Gwynn
Murphy
Hernandez
Schmidt
Carter

Standings after 4 events:

Murphy - 21
Raines - 20
Schmidt - 18
Hernandez - 17
Gwynn - 17
Carter - 11
Smith - 11

It comes down to defense, in this case, GGs

Smith (6)
Hernandez (6)
Murphy (5)
Schmidt (4)
Gwynn (2)
Carter (1)
Raines (0)

Final standings:

Murphy - 26
Hernandez - 23.5
Schmidt - 22
Raines - 21
Gwynn - 20
Smith - 18
Carter - 12

Ergo, Dale Murphy was unquestionably the best all around player in the NL from 1982-1987

Heh, #6 is like the kind of articles Bill James writes now...

In his prime, Dale Murphy was very much a Hall of Fame "feels-liker". He WAS perceived as a great player (and while he might not have been the best player in baseball, he was in the conversation).
If he'd had a more normal decline phase he'd probably be in the Hall by now.

But he followed George Foster off the same cliff...

As long as we're cherry-picking, Ryno belongs in #6's discussion about all-around players, if you do 84-89 or 90 (30-36 WAR)

Murphy was better than Pesky.

As long as we're cherry-picking, Ryno belongs in #6's discussion about all-around players, if you do 84-89 or 90 (30-36 WAR)

I overlooked him as he didn't make the top 5 in WAR for any time period. But in that pentathlon, he comes in between Smith and Raines, about 18.5 points or so.

At the time, I didn't think Murphy much deserved his 1982 MVP award (and metrics bear me out). In 1983, I initially though that Andre Dawson had pretty clearly surpassed Mike Schmidt as the NL's best player, but by the end of the year I was OK with Murphy winning MVP; WAR has him second that year to Dickie Thon, idiosyncratically (though I do remember Bill James writing at the time about how underrated Thon was by the media and the general public). By 1984, Murphy was back in the pack a bit, a fine player but not really in the discussion for all-round best at any given time. He was an excellent ballplayer for 6 to 8 years, obviously.

By 1984, Murphy was back in the pack a bit, a fine player but not really in the discussion for all-round best at any given time. He was an excellent ballplayer for 6 to 8 years, obviously.

Yeah, I almost felt bad up in post #1, but there's no shame in being a worse ballplayer than Mike Schmidt or Tim Raines.

dale was a big guy and the pounding of centerfield didn't help. it might have helped if he had moved to right field though who knows if that would have forestalled the decline

Would Murphy had made the Hall if he hadn't driven off the statistical cliff when he did? Let's take a look:

After his Age 31 season in 1987, Murphy was at 310 HR, 1555 H and 927 RBI. His established levels were 38 HR, 169 H and 99 RBI. Using the Favourite Toy (5.4 years remaining), we get projected career totals of 514 HR, 2467 hits and 1462 RBI; and those numbers might've been even higher, if Murphy could've taken full advantage of Sillyball. Plus, if he stays in Atlanta, he would've been part of the great Braves teams of the 90s, perhaps even coaxed another World Series win out of them (I'm looking at you, Game 7 of 1991). And, of course, the guy's as clean as a whistle. He's in.