St. Louis, Kansas City, and Dallas teams were all on the road.

Hmmm, let's play in Milwaukee.

St. Louis, Kansas City, and Dallas teams were all on the road.

And all 3 had rain.

How about Seattle or Toronto, where the Cub home field advantage might not be so obvious.

This doesn't make me upset anymore, it's simply laughable. Hard to get angry at farce.

How about Seattle or Toronto, where the Cub home field advantage might not be so obvious.

No idea. There were rumors about McLane rejecting various places, but I never heard Toronto or Seattle mentioned in any of them.

St. Louis, Kansas City, and Dallas teams were all on the road.



And all 3 had rain.

Actually, the weather was good in Arlington, Tx on the Sunday that the game was played in Milwaukee. From the Dallas Morning News' weather blog for Sunday, Sept. 14, 2008:

Sunday, Sept. 14, 9:51 am
As we told you yesterday afternoon, the Dallas area should enjoy terrific weather as Ike sails into the sunset. (Actually, that should be "into the sunrise," since the storm, now sitting over the Arkansas-Missouri border, is heading north and east.)

The National Weather Service forecast for the rest of today:

Mostly sunny, highs in the 80s, light winds from the north. By tonight, lows around 60.

More of the same on Monday, and Tuesday, and ...

The west coast was taken out of consideration, due to the fact that they were heading to Florida right after.

Yes, the weather in Dallas was fine, and in retrospect it would have been a much better choice. But it was not unreasonable to rule it out at the time on the concern that the storm might impact the area on Sunday. Getting the games in was the most important consideration.

Sunday, Sept. 14, 9:51 am
As we told you yesterday afternoon, the Dallas area should enjoy terrific weather as Ike sails into the sunset. (Actually, that should be "into the sunrise," since the storm, now sitting over the Arkansas-Missouri border, is heading north and east.)

When was it clear they wouldn't get hit by Ike? When did MLB have to make its decision to ensure the games got in on time?

They couldn't put it in some place that *looked like* it wasn't going to get rain. Can you imagine how much egg would be on Selig's face if they moved it and the games got rained out anyway - and there were playoff implications from the series? You had a huge hurricane enter from the Gulf, and at least one other massive rain storm passing over the heart of the country. It was a mess.

I think they should've put it in Toronto or Seattle or some place further away, but I have no problem with them moving out of Texas.

If you read Bud's letter, he clarified that the West Coast wasn't going to work because Houston had to be in Florida on Tuesday and they weren't going to force them to fly cross-country.

I don't know about Toronto.

As for Dallas, as Dag notes, the weather may have turned out ok, but it didn't look that way when MLB had to make it's decision.

I still think they should've played in Tampa on Sunday night and Monday afternoon -- the Rays were scheduled for Monday night.

Does it really matter? The Astros have looked terrible since then anyways and have resorted to wearing T shirts that blame Bud for all of their problems. Boo Hoo. If you are that good then just go out and play the games. Does it suck? Yeah but so what? How much does home field advantage really matter over 2 games? Maybe its worth .2 wins? Maybe the Stros should have tried to get more than a single hit all last week instead of complaining and making excuses that make the 2004 Cubs seem sane.

They had 1 hit in two games. I don't think it mattered where they played.

I think part of the problem in Tampa was finding employees to work all day. I know that in Milwaukee they couldn't find enough people to staff the entire ballpark so they limited the crowd to about 23,000. That is a very real consideration as well that most people haven't talked about.

Does it really matter?

It would if you were an Astros fan (and I'm not...I'm a philies fan. Each decision creates a new path to history, and while it would have been nice for the Astros to play well in Chicago, it didn't happen.

I recall being incensed a couple years ago because MLB forced the Phils and Nats to play a game that started 4½ hours late thanks to a rain delay and there not being any date that the game could be made up. Neither team gained an advantage in that game from the rain out (the phils lost..) and the Phils still managed to win 2 out of the next 3 (and still miss the playoffs by 2 games), but that was still a bonehead decision to force that game.

No other sport has such a hard line playoff schedule that absolutely cannot be moved. NHL and NBA have like 80% of the teams make the playoffs and they last forever, but they are indoor games. The NFL has a week between contests. It honestly seems that it would be in MLBs best interest to delay *meaningful* games until they can be played, or they are no longer meaningful. If that means built in dead time at the end of the season, so be it. An additional benefit would be that *all* playoff teams (that didn't suffer from act-of-god rescheduling) could set their rotations, and nobody would be sandbagging the last week of the season to put their ace(s) on the proper schedule.

I don't know about Toronto.

Maybe the Astros didn't have passports.

The crying about this is just embarrassing to the Astros and the city of Houston. You would think you would have more important things to worry about than cry about a non-story. There are good reasons for how this series ended up in Milwaukee, #1 of which was Houston was crushed by a hurricane.

What is with this notion, this charade going on, that man can somehow control the weather?

What is with this notion, this charade going on, that man can somehow control the weather?

Quite the contrary. You can't control it, but you should recognize the lack of control over it, and have some built in days to accomodate it.

I'm glad Florida is finally going to have a roof. Any Fl resident could tell you what kind of weather to expect in the summer. Sporadic t-storms. And it's not like a 20 min shower only interrupts the game for 20 min either.

Short of putting a better team on the field, I can't imagine a single thing more likely to put butts in the seats down there, besides assurance of a game that will happen and not be interrupted.

Short of putting a better team on the field, I can't imagine a single thing more likely to put butts in the seats down there,

Nickel beer night?

This is the dumbest outrage ever.

Listen folks, the Astro's owner was a big part of the problem here from the get go. MLB tried to get him to allow that series to be moved early on, but he was unwilling. He and the Astros players wanted the Cubs players to fly in to play and early game on Friday and then "hunker" down thru the hurricane. All in hopes of playing the remaining games Sunday and Monday. They worried nothing about their safety, nor what would happen to them during that time. The Cubs refused.

The Astros did not want to play in St Louis because the Cubs were already there, and it meant they would not have to travel anywhere. They wanted the Cubs to be inconvenienced. Playing in St. Louis over the weekend was purposed on Thursday. MBL offered to send a second plane to Houston, in order to help get the Astros families out. The offer was refused.

What happened to the Astros was really unfortunate, but it surely was not just the fault of MLB, and the sooner they realize that, the better they might play. Their owner wanted that gate just as surely, so he is just as much to blame. He also wanted to get a good return from wherever they played, and Milwaukee offers that in spades. Those tickets sold at a much higher price then normal at Miller Park.


Lets keep another thought in mind. The Cubs are a team who has been in first place since early May, they play contenders for the rest of their schedule, and that is something that Selig had to take in consideration. This was not just about fairness to the Astro's, but also fairness to the Cubs and the rest of the league. All the teams in the hunt for the wild card or the East Division is who the Cubs play. You can't exactly hold the Cubs- Astro series off till after the season, and then expect everyone else not to know what is going on.

Also, a series in Toronto can not be arranged quickly, it's a visa thing and a passport issue.

I thought homefield advantage was all about batting in the bottom half of the inning. It's really about having the fans on your side? I guess Tampa Bay has never had homefield advantage agasint the Red Sox or Yankees then...

Lippy, you have links for any of that? Or do you just know...

I thought homefield advantage was all about batting in the bottom half of the inning. It's really about having the fans on your side? I guess Tampa Bay has never had homefield advantage agasint the Red Sox or Yankees then...

Not in the game I went to.

The Astros did not want to play in St Louis because the Cubs were already there, and it meant they would not have to travel anywhere. They wanted the Cubs to be inconvenienced.

If there is any truth to this, it is incredibly petty.

Listen folks, the Astro's owner was a big part of the problem here from the get go. MLB tried to get him to allow that series to be moved early on, but he was unwilling. He and the Astros players wanted the Cubs players to fly in to play and early game on Friday and then "hunker" down thru the hurricane. All in hopes of playing the remaining games Sunday and Monday. They worried nothing about their safety, nor what would happen to them during that time. The Cubs refused.

The Astros did not want to play in St Louis because the Cubs were already there, and it meant they would not have to travel anywhere. They wanted the Cubs to be inconvenienced. Playing in St. Louis over the weekend was purposed on Thursday. MBL offered to send a second plane to Houston, in order to help get the Astros families out. The offer was refused.

What happened to the Astros was really unfortunate, but it surely was not just the fault of MLB, and the sooner they realize that, the better they might play. Their owner wanted that gate just as surely, so he is just as much to blame. He also wanted to get a good return from wherever they played, and Milwaukee offers that in spades. Those tickets sold at a much higher price then normal at Miller Park.


Lets keep another thought in mind. The Cubs are a team who has been in first place since early May, they play contenders for the rest of their schedule, and that is something that Selig had to take in consideration. This was not just about fairness to the Astro's, but also fairness to the Cubs and the rest of the league. All the teams in the hunt for the wild card or the East Division is who the Cubs play. You can't exactly hold the Cubs- Astro series off till after the season, and then expect everyone else not to know what is going on.

Also, a series in Toronto can not be arranged quickly, it's a visa thing and a passport issue.

McLane's primary concern was for his players and their families, according to a different version of why he hesitated on agreeing to details of moving the series. If that is true, and I don't know that it is, it is a very understandable position to take. Anyone who has ever been through a hurricane like this one would understand that. The part about McLane wanting the Cubs to hunker down in Houston is silly. I am assuming you got that from someone who made it up.

I do find the whining about Milwaukee unseemly, though. Gotta play the cards, er, cubs you're dealt.

Still, I'm calling bulls**t on the post I quoted. I'll take it back if you have links to stories that confirm this. Otherwise, I believe the process was not nearly as cynical and/or mendacious as you make it sound.

Houston needs to clean up, the Texans suck ass, Rice and UH is horrible, and Ron Artest is coming to town. Are there not other things Houston residents should be worrying sbout?

The part about McLane wanting the Cubs to hunker down in Houston is silly. I am assuming you got that from someone who made it up.

Well, he did try to get Friday's game moved to the afternoon, and had planned to play Sunday and Monday, so whether he wanted them to "hunker" or leave Friday and and return on Sunday or anything else, the point is, he wanted them in Houston 12 hours before the storm hit.

It didn't matter what McLane wanted - he's not the the freakin' commissioner. This was all about Bud Selig trying to help the Brewers in the Wild Card race. Pure and simple.

As Commissioner, my job is to make my fellow owners big, stinking gobs of money off the guillible fans, while also finishing the season on time so the endless Frank Caliendo commercials can begin as scheduled. Hurricane Ike disrupted many things, but not nearly as badly as I have disrupted baseball. I have heard your complaints and I could not possibly care less, you effing rednecks. Get a goddamned job.

Screw you,

Allan H. (Bud) Selig
Commissioner of Baseball

Well, he did try to get Friday's game moved to the afternoon, and had planned to play Sunday and Monday, so whether he wanted them to "hunker" or leave Friday and and return on Sunday or anything else, the point is, he wanted them in Houston 12 hours before the storm hit.

I'm not in the habit of defending McLane, but in the interest of accuracy, at the time moving up the Friday game was being discussed, the storm was being forecast to hit anywhere from Corpus Christi to Port O'Connor, further down the coast. The thinking then was Houston would at worst get some tropical storm force winds and rain on Saturday, nothing like what ended up happening. This is nothing against you, but I find the notion that McLane wanted to make the Cubs wait through a direct hit from a Category 3 storm, or somehow use the consequences of a natural disaster to "inconvenience" the Cubs is kind of insulting and frankly, well, ignorant.

But then Jim Hendry said the disruption caused by the storm would be an inconvenience to his team, too. At the time he said that, with everything else going on, I thought he was trying (and failing) to be humorously ironic. Either that, or he had clearly lost his mind.

Lippy, you have links for any of that? Or do you just know...

I know, but I can't tell you.

If there is any truth to this, it is incredibly petty.

The notion was mentioned by the Sun-Times, but only as speculation by the writer. At the time, Busch Stadium was booked for another event (which was later postponed due to inclement weather).

It's not as if Houston has reeled off a winning streak since the series. If their lousy play since the series is a direct result of Big Bad Bud, well then, they don't deserve to be in the postseason, anyway.

I'm not in the habit of defending McLane, but in the interest of accuracy, at the time moving up the Friday game was being discussed, the storm was being forecast to hit anywhere from Corpus Christi to Port O'Connor, further down the coast.

also in the interest of accuracy
1: a storm in Port O'Connor would have had HTN on its dirty side,
2: the margin of error in those forecasts is several hundred miles.

Anyone down here with half a brain was already looking to see whether they would need to evacuate. I know a lot of folks here who would have been happy to be flown out of town -- even to MIL -- to ride out the storm.

In fact, I remember lauging with friends at the gym about the stupidity of Drayton's "let's play early."

ALso, I can't imagine him agreeing to TB because there'd have been no gate. Look at what the home team draws.

also in the interest of accuracy
1: a storm in Port O'Connor would have had HTN on its dirty side,
2: the margin of error in those forecasts is several hundred miles.

3: The storm was not a discreet point. It was several hundred miles wide. The storm "hit" Galveston. So why was Plaquemines Parish Louisiana under water? Why was Gilchrist Texas wiped off the map? Why was Lamar university in Beaumont shut down for nearly 3 weeks?

Why was Gilchrist Texas wiped off the map? Why was Lamar university in Beaumont shut down for nearly 3 weeks?

hyperbole not withstanding....has it been 3 wks since ike hit?

2, but Lamar will not resume classes until this Thursday.

And have you seen pictures of Gilchrist?. Wiped off the map is not hyperbole.

McLane's primary concern was for his players and their families, according to a different version of why he hesitated on agreeing to details of moving the series. If that is true, and I don't know that it is, it is a very understandable position to take.

I'm not sure that this really holds water, either, though. If the Astros were on a west coast swing, playing LA before the weekend, SF over the weekend, and Col after, would there have been any outcry that the SF games should be cancelled because of the families of the Astros players?

hello boys

a little info from someone who was actually in houston

1 - early in the week the projections showed ike hitting freeport which would have been worse than katrina in nola. by wed basically EVERY projection show ike hitting galveston. not a SINGLE projection show ike suddenly going so far east that houston would just get a little rain.

i know because i checked it damm near every 3 hours. and i had completely FINISHED makeing emergency plans to leave by monday. (so if i could why the eff couldn't the team and all them rich players????)

2 - regardless of what drayton/bud did, best i can tell not ONE single player evacuated his family in houston. and these are really rich people and they can get a lot of plane tickets and hotel rooms no big deal.

they didn't care enough to make DAMM sure there family the heck out of the way of the hurricane.

3 - facts - early in the week (just go back and read the chronicle because i know u can't go back and listen to the radio) drayton spoke repeatedly about refusing to even think about moving the games anywhere. on wed he was saying that the cubs should fly in early and have the friday game early. he said repeatedly that he wanted to have those games played at HOME. meaning MMP. it wasn't until thursday night that he started making noise about wanting to keep the players with there family

most definitely by friday the weather reports were very clear and arlington was open and sunny all day sunday and monday

the only reason there was "no other option" is because bud demanded a domed stadium. NO justification for that stupid demand because there were places where there wasn't no weather where there was no dome. like arlington.

and the reason drayton agreed to wrigley north is because he wanted the $$$ - the ticket prices were much higher than normal and he got to keep the entire gate

the players are seriously angry not just with bud but with drayton. (and this is NOT gonna look real too good for FA now is it???)

i am not saying they tanked it, but having your owner give you a hard one up the *** is not exactly, um, helping moral real too much. and he is the buttthole who always asking the PLAYERS bout what have THEY done to be a champion. drayton he should go look in the freaking mirror

- and for all yall who have not been through a hurricane let me tell you it is emotionally exhausting. and i SERIOUSLY doubt any of the guys had slept friday night or sat AND it was raining and hot and there was no electric, no phone and unbelieveable wreckage everywheres. and these are guys who got to go off and leave their places and maybe family and they got to deal with no sleep for 2 or 3 days and also they had to deal with feeling bad about not getting the family out back when they could have and now they got to deal with the mess

no wonder they look like zombies Up in the cubs summer getaway cottage where the ever classy cubs fans booed the players (no excuse for fla)

- so do i think it would have been better if drayton had not been so fukkking greedy and had an emergency plan in place by wed and evacuated the players and the families and played even in front of 300 people in tampa? yes. not for drayton's pocket, but i got zero sympathy for that - he's a billionaire and this is pocket change for him. but he is the guy who supposedly Wants To Win. i mean, the ballclub to win.


and by the way, pretty much the east end of galveston and most of the port bolivar peninsula and most small towns east of galveston bout wiped off the map. beaumont is barely left. it isn't getting real too much national pub because who cares - it is not something wheres the news media can have a field day blaming bush/blaming ignerrint Negroes in poverty/blaming the other political party/blaming the other kind of news media

no wonder they look like zombies Up in the cubs summer getaway cottage where the ever classy cubs fans booed the players (no excuse for fla)

Is booing your opponent unseemly now?

Glad to hear you got out and are doing well(well enough at least)

ryan

you don't think there is something a little - um, classless about booing your opponent under THOSE circumstances???

you think that if chicago had just had the chicago fire and they had to have their games in st louis because chicago was shut down that the cards fans would have booed the cubs?

- the pirates/pirates fans took up a collection for hurricane victims.
they didn't boo

- and thank you. i am a person who prepare for the worst and pray for the best. and i am grateful beyond words that my dumbass husband and the rest of my family who refused to get out whilst they could all come through ok

"- and for all yall who have not been through a hurricane let me tell you it is emotionally exhausting."

I did it once, on the edge of a little baby one when I was a kid, and I can confirm that this is true.

The team has a tremendous history of whining, especially about the weather, see also "roof open." Don't care, and while I'm not one to boo a sports team, this side of the St. Louis Cardinals version of Jim Edmonds, I have no problem with it.

I've had my share: Georges, Mitch, Irene, Frances, Jeanne, Katrina, Rita, Wilma, Fay, and Gustav are the ones that come to mind. There have probably been more. None hit directly, but Wilma flooded my yard and ground floor. Georges did the most wind damage, mostly to vegetation.

bunny

gf, please

the "roof" was not about having to play in the cold, it was about having to play without most of the crowd noise - you know, hf advantage...

and please do not bother trying to tell me that there is no difference between the noise with the roof open/shut because the noise is reduced by at LEAST 1/2. if not more. and i know because i was there for every freaking game. and you were NOT. it is called removing the psychological advantage. and you damm well know it. (and yes i know it had nothing to do with lidge being unable to pitch worth shtt or roger clemens getting hurt/sucking in chicago)

and you come up with just ONE other "weather" complaint

you don't think there is something a little - um, classless about booing your opponent under THOSE circumstances???

you think that if chicago had just had the chicago fire and they had to have their games in st louis because chicago was shut down that the cards fans would have booed the cubs?

- the pirates/pirates fans took up a collection for hurricane victims.
they didn't boo

I'll echo what Jack said, that I'm not one to boo, at least not in such generalities of a team running on to the field. But I'm not going to silence people who want to. I think much of the booing was aimed at the Astros' attitude about the whole situation. Coming into the game looking like whiners is not going to endear you to the "road" crowd. That and we really hate Lance Berkman. There was nothing necessarily tasteless about the booing itself. Especially when compared to stuff like the shrits the team is wearing saying they survived Ike, but Bud killed them. Ya know, when people actually were killed by the hurricane? I was the one remaining Cub fan to like LaTroy up until this t-shirt nonsense.

I think this Astros attitude regarding the whole situation is especially annoying to Cubs fans, because it's so Dusty Baker it's almost hard to believe he's not in charge down there. IIRC, Dusty did drop a couple hurricane complaints while managing the most unlikable team in baseball history back in '04 as the team blamed everyone but themselves for choking down the stretch against terrible teams.

i didn't like those shirts neither but hey, they couldn't hardly wear ones saying DRAYTON killed them, could they. and yall didn't know about the t-shirts when the guys first got there

yall hate lance berkman????

for goodness sakes he hits like brad ausmus at wrigley .221/.348/.388/.736 (and not real too much better against the cubs at the Box neither)

it was BIGGIO that kill your 04 team. along with oswalt...

- and berkman himself has said on the record that they can't blame the hurricane for the team losing and himself not hitting

2 - regardless of what drayton/bud did, best i can tell not ONE single player evacuated his family in houston. and these are really rich people and they can get a lot of plane tickets and hotel rooms no big deal.

they didn't care enough to make DAMM sure there family the heck out of the way of the hurricane.

I agree w/ everything else you said, bc, but I don't get your point here. Do many of them live in evac zones? I figure their houses are built a lot better than mine, and I stayed (not in an evac zone) ... though I confess that around 4-5 a.m. I wished I hadn't, even though the house came through mostly fine.

Well, we already know Commissioner Tru-Coat doesn't give a fig about the integrity of the regular season competition. The other relevant question is: Did Bud, in any way, shape, or form, get a cut from having the games in Milwaukee? My guess is: Yes.

"- and for all yall who have not been through a hurricane let me tell you it is emotionally exhausting."

I did it once, on the edge of a little baby one when I was a kid, and I can confirm that this is true.

Ditto that.


Everytime I think I'd like to live on the Gulf Coast or Florida, I see photos like Misirlou linked and am happy with being in foothills.

mayor,

i don't know/care what official evacuation zone is. i look at the nhc hurricane map and i look how big it is and i look at where could it go and i get ready to go as soon as i can because if it is a big hurricane if it go southwest at the last minute it will be MUCH worse in houston. i think it is stupid to just sit there and go what could happen. ESPECIALLY to keep your kids there. if they get killed/injured bad when you KNOW you could have got them out a long time before, that is bad for the rest of your life.

especially if you live by a bayou

me i would rather take my kidz/dogz and go and nothing happen then stay and the roof falls in/trees fall on the house and kill me/kidz/dogz or we get flooded out and can't get out in time

i know ausmus live in university park (like 5 miles from the Box) where theres lots of large trees and i know backe live in friendswood and his family live in galveston. but if you are rich and can afford plane tickets and hotels why WHY would you keep your family in the danger zone?????



sugarbear,

you talking to a bud hater here. and absolutely nothing he do to line his own pockets and owners pockets would surprise me. and i DO mean nothing

Why am I not surprised you know where Ausumus lives along with the landscaping around it? :)

ryan

-grinning

just because i lust over the guy don't mean i stalk him

the reason i know is because brad gave an interview about him and a couple other astros rode out the hurricane in his univ park house

i been thru univ park before and there are a LOT of huge old trees

i don't know/care what official evacuation zone is. i look at the nhc hurricane map and i look how big it is and i look at where could it go and i get ready to go as soon as i can because if it is a big hurricane if it go southwest at the last minute it will be MUCH worse in houston. i think it is stupid to just sit there and go what could happen. ESPECIALLY to keep your kids there. if they get killed/injured bad when you KNOW you could have got them out a long time before, that is bad for the rest of your life.

Damned straight. I appreciate the gummint keeping an eye on things, and greasing the rails when necessary (lifting tolls on the turnpikes and bridges, getting the tourists out tout de suite, etc). But I will make up my own mind as to when it is necessary and proper to evac. That may mean staying when the gummint says go, and leaving when the gummint says stay. These ijits who stayed in Galveston this time because "We evacuated for Rita and it was unnecessary" are beyond description. It's harsh (and no, I don't really mean it", but they should die. Help clean out the gene pool.

I don't think I know any inner-loopers who left.

University Park or West University Place? Hard to imagine him living around UH on that salary if he's looking out for the wife and kids.

& Miserlou, it isn't harsh at all. When those guys who tried to ride it out on the Galveston pier or people from Bolivar called for rescue, I'd have told them to take a number.

& Miserlou, it isn't harsh at all. When those guys who tried to ride it out on the Galveston pier or people from Bolivar called for rescue, I'd have told them to take a number.

Yeah, it's one thing to say "I'm staying because my house sits on high ground, it's all concrete including the roof, it sits 10 feet off the ground on concrete pilings driven into the bedrock with first class steel hurricane shutters, and I have a weeks supply of food, water, and propane on hand. It's another to say "Last time the storm missed us so evacuation was unnnecessary." Words cannot describe...

Where is all this talk of higher ticket prices coming from? The ticket prices were about the same with one big gigantic glaring difference. No matter what 20,000+ was all that was going to be coming and it was likely only to be that high on the weekend. They could have charged 100 bucks and still got 23,000 fans and they still would have lost money hand over fist on this deal.

- the pirates/pirates fans took up a collection for hurricane victims.
they didn't boo

Didn't the Cubs launch a collection for Ike victims? Thought I read that someplace.

That '04 Cub team really was a loathsome bunch, weren't they? In retrospect (which, being retro, is the only kind of spect I have), I'm almost glad they didn't make the playoffs. (Not that it didn't suck monolithically at the time.)

That '04 Cub team really was a loathsome bunch, weren't they? In retrospect (which, being retro, is the only kind of spect I have), I'm almost glad they didn't make the playoffs. (Not that it didn't suck monolithically at the time.)

I felt the same way about the 01 Red Sox. The final days of the Carl Everett era. The Duquette-Williams never-ending pissing match leading to the Joe Kerrigan reign. Nomar's response to the Cumberland firing "That's why nobody wants to play here." Just a really unlikable bunch by season's end.

Or, as Karlmagnus would call them, the dream team.

They did launch a collection. They were giving out the details on TV sometime this past week(Friday maybe?)

if chicago had just had the chicago fire

Which got all the attention, despite happening the same day as the Peshtigo Fire, the deadliest fire in US history (and a rather incredible phenomenon whatever it was - a tornadic crematorium)

/ Grumble, grumble

Although in the end, one spawned the legend of Mrs. O'Leary's cow, while the other spawned the firebombs of WWII.

I seem to recall in the final game of the 'Stros/Cubs series at Wrigley in Aug '04, the same series where idiot Michael Barrett went after Oswalt and fired up Houston (which I think was still 5 or 6 under .500 at the time). I seem to recall one Lance Berkman appearing to get hit in the head with pitch, dropping to the ground, and lying there facedown for a few minutes with everyone in the park concerned about his health. I seem to recall him eventually getting up, being fine, and heroically staying in the game and trotting to first. I seem to recall replays showing that the ball did go near him...but hit his BAT. Berkman was never hit, even on the recoil. I seem to recall him laughing in the dugout about it in a later inning. And I seem to recall reading an article a few days later online at ESPN.com or some such alleging that Berkman was walking around the clubhouse after the game asking teammates, "what did you think about my acting job there? You like that?"

I seem to recall that THAT was the moment I began to really dislike Lance Berkman.

BTW: I too spent from mid-August '04 until the end of the season outwardly predicting and secretly hoping for the eventual demise of the Cubs. What a bunch of ##########.

*Googles Peshtigo Fire*...holy ####.

"On the evening of October 8, 1871 the worst recorded forest fire in North American history raged through Northeastern Wisconsin and Upper Michigan, destroying millions of dollars worth of property and timberland, and taking between 1,200 and 2,400 lives."

Uh, sorry for stealing the headlines, NTN. I'm sure we can make it up to you somehow....

(We pwn Metz, u can haz wildcard?)

*Googles Peshtigo Fire*...holy ####.

It's one of those historical events that amazingly slipped through the cracks; there's not even much online info and just a few books. Unless you went to a Wisconsin grade school, you've probably never heard of it.

If you read some of the accounts, it's power was incredible - one way of describing it is that is was like a humongous tornado of fire that incinerated people on the spot (and that's if you were one of the lucky ones), and that doesn't even do it justice. It was a rather unique (thankfully) natural phenomenon that still isn't completely understood, but the Allies gave it a go.

Given its direct link to Dresden, it's surprising there's never even been a good PBS or History Channel-type documentary on it, that I'm aware of.

I find it particularly interesting that this thread began with hurricanes and is now on firestorms...with a little bit of baseball in between.

Wasn't Dresden inspired by the Hamburg bombing?

Still that Wisconsin fire was incredible. To some extent, it had the same causes as the Chicago fire - summerlong draught followed by really windy day -- except the wind was (obviously) far far far far worse in Wisconsin.

Wasn't Dresden inspired by the Hamburg bombing?

Right, but the Allies wanted to figure out how they could unnaturally create a similar situation. Hamburg was more "whoa, wasn't expecting all THAT to happen".

To create the actual firebombs used on Dresden, Tokyo, etc., the Americans and Brits studied Peshtigo.

I suspect the largest source of info on Peshtigo is probably contained in some musty declassified documents somewhere.

mayor,

of course i meant west u
i was just reading bout stuff in univ park and what can i say

everyone i know who did NOT leave which is most everyone said tnhat they weren't leaving because the govt always exaggerate and they left for rita and it was a mistake. also that since houston is at least 30 miles north of galveston (including league city and seabrook here) that the hurricane would slow down and we be fine. i shtt you not.

and what is worse is all the people from galveston/port bolivar who say they will not never evacuate now because they couldn't get right back in

shrug

you can tell a fool but you cain't tell em much


mccoy,
we heard that the ticket prices were much higher during the game broadcast and i am pretty sure i read about it on chron.com somewheres too


retro,
maybe the cubs are doing it now - but they sure nuff weren't on sunday
and yeh, the 04 cubs were a bunch of shttheads starting with michael barrett and kent mercker and that other whiny bytch i forget his name.
- but us astros fans owe michael barrett for kicking some fire into a moribund astros team who SHOULD have been a ton better. everyone always talk about how when phil garner came things turn right aroudn. but that is pure bullshtt because they didn't win one bit more and nobody's stats got better - it took roy giving up 6 runs and michael barrett gettin roy all fahred uppp, yeh it did. and baggy dissing roy to the media and the rest of the team getting mad...

and what is weird is i disremember the lance faking getting hit in the head part - in the aug 22 game (the michael barrett getting plunked by roy - partley because kerry woods hit 3 guys and probably because roy was pissed in general because his defense was sucking and he gve up 6 runs)
- (checking the game log) of course because it was the revenge game 5 days later where kerry wood plunked roy and roy gave up 6 runs again but wood gave up 8 and roy won anyhow on the road to the last day of the season winning the WC

and DAMM boy you never heard noise that infreakingcredibly loud. and yeh, part of it was me yelling and i was so hoarse i couldn't hardly yell at the kidz the next day

and if the peshtigo fire was 1 mile high and 5 miles wide traveling at 100 MPH how on earth did it ever get put out before it went into canada and burn all of that up too

The firestorm was being moved eastward by the strong winds the whole time, and eventually ran out of things to burn (and land), and ran into water (Green Bay and Lake Michigan).