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Monday, June 18, 2018

OTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game

“This game is a situation of which, you’re a product of your political success, so if you have a good political year, you have a good recruiting year for this game.” So said former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., many years ago about the Congressional Baseball Game and the teams each party gets to field.

Washington is host to the 2018 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, known among fans as the midsummer classic. But Capitol Hill has staged its own midsummer classic every year for more than five decades, the Congressional Baseball Game.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:15 AM | 1775 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1301. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5697879)
If only the SPLC's record was as spotless as Breitbart's.
Wake us when Google and Facebook bring in Breitbart staffers to regulate news content.
   1302. Srul Itza Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5697881)
Also, an English universtiy university got into trouble, for using a quote from Erwin Rommel to "inspire". The quote: “One cannot permit unique opportunities to slip by for the sake of trifles.”

I can see some concerns over using quotes from Nazi Generals, but what I really found disturbing was the university's excuse after it apologized:


A university spokesman said the staff member who picked the quote did not know who Rommel was, and the information was taken from a random quote generator.

Excuse me? Someone who works at a university -- an ENGLISH university -- does not recognize the name Erwin Rommel?
   1303. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5697882)
No mention of the Supreme Court's ruling that cell phone location information now requires a warrant?


Which my employer is monitoring closely; we use cell phone forensics in probably the majority of our searches for lost planes, people, etc. these days.
   1304. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5697884)
Gee, that's quite a response to what I said! But in the spirit of giving you a second chance, why don't you tell us if you sign off on those words of Krauthammer's I quoted in #1204:
And I agreed with that sentiment at the time.

It still doesn't explain why you not once linked to any of his post-inauguration writings.
   1305. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5697885)
   1306. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5697886)
I can see some concerns over using quotes from Nazi Generals, but what I really found disturbing was the university's excuse after it apologized:
AFAIK, Rommel never joined the Nazi Party.
   1307. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5697888)
If only the SPLC's record was as spotless as Breitbart's.

JE specializes in picking out the 1% of the time when SPLC screwed up,** which pretty much corresponds to the 1% of the time that he'll have anything bad to say about Trump.

** I wonder if he's still trying to pretend that FAIR is some sort of a mainstream voice on immigration.
   1308. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5697890)
Speaking of shameless propaganda, Time Magazine's cover just got fisked...

BOMBSHELL: Girl Never Separated At Border; Mom Paid Smuggler And Abandoned Family, Father Says

If we claim to care so much about children, don't then exploit them to advance our agenda.
   1309. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5697891)
If only the SPLC's record was as spotless as Breitbart's.

Wake us when Google and Facebook bring in Breitbart staffers to regulate news content.


Gee, I wonder why they wouldn't call on Breitbart to point out hate speech!
   1310. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5697893)
The Four Liberals plus the CJ essentially overruled the third party doctrine (which is that once information is in the hands of third parties, you have no expectation of privacy and it is fair game for the government).
It doesn't overrule the third party doctrine, though. It simply narrows it so that it doesn't apply to this situation.

Gorsuch wrote the most interesting "dissent", which was less dissent than exploration of the issues.
Yeah, that was a DINO.
   1311. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5697896)
AFAIK, Rommel never joined the Nazi Party.


#neverhitler!

(He does, of course, give points for his involvement in the assassination plot of ... '44, was it?)
   1312. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5697897)
Speaking of shameless propaganda...

BOMBSHELL: Girl Never Separated At Border; Mom Paid Smuggler And Abandoned Family, Father Says


Assuming that Daily Wire story is true, why don't you tell us about the other 2299 children?

Are you really that pathetic that you're defending the separation of families at the border? If not, just say so.
   1313. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5697899)
(He does, of course, give points for his involvement in the assassination plot of ... '44, was it?)
Do we know conclusively that Rommel was aware, let alone approved, of the plot?
   1314. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5697900)
Assuming that Daily Wire story is true,
It's true.
why don't you tell us about the other 2299 children?
Is Time Magazine planning covers for all of them too? If so, we'll investigate those claims as well.
   1315. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5697903)
why don't you tell us about the other 2299 children?

Is Time Magazine planning covers for all of them too? If so, we'll investigate those claims too.


Oh, I'm sure you would. Can't be too sure about those tiny terrorist tots.
   1316. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5697906)
Are you really that pathetic that you're defending the separation of families at the border? If not, just say so.
Funny, Andy, the only time the Time Magazine family has been separated was... when she took her youngest to the border, leaving her husband and other children behind in Honduras.

Elsewhere, I've backed the imperfect but promising Cruz proposal, but Schumer and Durbin have been making asses out of themselves, refusing to back any such remedy.
   1317. Srul Itza Posted: June 22, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5697907)
It doesn't overrule the third party doctrine, though. It simply narrows it so that it doesn't apply to this situation.


You are right. But I think that it may be the beginning of the end for tat doctrine.
   1318. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5697910)
Gee, that's quite a response to what I said! But in the spirit of giving you a second chance, why don't you tell us if you sign off on those words of Krauthammer's I quoted in #1204:

And I agreed with that sentiment at the time.


So do you still agree with them now? Specifically, do you still agree with this:

At a time of such tectonic instability, even the most experienced head of state requires wisdom and delicacy to maintain equilibrium. Trump has neither. His joining of supreme ignorance to supreme arrogance, combined with a pathological sensitivity to any perceived slight, is a standing invitation to calamitous miscalculation.

Two generations of Americans have grown up feeling that international stability is as natural as the air we breathe. It’s not. It depends on continual, calibrated tending. It depends on the delicate balancing of alliances and the careful signaling of enemies. It depends on avoiding self-inflicted trade wars and on recognizing the value of allies like Germany, Japan and South Korea as cornerstones of our own security rather than satrapies who are here to dispatch tribute to their imperial master in Washington.

It took seven decades to build this open, free international order. It could be brought down in a single presidential term. That would be a high price to pay for the catharsis of kicking over a table.

If so, are you regretting your choice not to vote for the only plausible alternative to Trump? Or do you think that Krauthammer was wrong, and that Trump is stabilizing the world?

It still doesn't explain why you not once linked to any of his post-inauguration writings.

I may have actually mentioned a few of them, but Krauthammer wrote his last pre-final column over 10 months ago. I've quoted 50 op-eds by actual conservatives for every liberal you've quoted.
   1319. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5697911)
No mention of the Supreme Court's ruling that cell phone location information now requires a warrant?

There were 4 decisions announced today. For those who never read the opinions and just go by the perceived ideology of the Justices to decide who is correct, this will tell you all you apparently need:
Carpenter: ROBERTS, C. J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which GINSBURG, BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. KENNEDY, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which THOMAS and ALITO, JJ., joined. THOMAS, J., filed a dissenting opinion. ALITO, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which THOMAS, J., joined. GORSUCH, J., filed a dissenting opinion.

Currier: GORSUCH, J., announced the judgment of the Court and delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Parts I and II, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and KENNEDY, THOMAS, and ALITO, JJ., joined, and an opinion with respect to Part III, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and THOMAS and ALITO, JJ., joined. KENNEDY, J., filed an opinion concurring in part. GINSBURG, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined.

Ortiz: KAGAN, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and KENNEDY, THOMAS, GINSBURG, BREYER, and SOTOMAYOR, JJ., joined. THOMAS, J., filed a concurring opinion. ALITO, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which GORSUCH, J., joined.

WesternGeco: THOMAS, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and KENNEDY, GINSBURG, ALITO, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. GORSUCH, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which, BREYER, J., joined.

The remaining 6 cases are expected to be announced Monday. The authorship of today's opinions suggest that Roberts may be writing the Travel Ban case and Alito the Texas redistricting one.
   1320. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5697912)
Are you really that pathetic that you're defending the separation of families at the border? If not, just say so.

Funny, Andy, the only time the Time Magazine family has been separated was... when she took her youngest to the border, leaving her husband and other children behind in Honduras.


You've just now officially copped the Sean Spicer award for question avoidance, and are fast closing in on the coveted Sarah Huckabee Sanders trophy.
   1321. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5697915)
Time Magazine correction:
The original version of this story misstated what happened to the girl in the photo after she taken from the scene. The girl was not carried away screaming by U.S. Border Patrol agents; her mother picked her up and the two were taken away together.
Oh.

EDIT: http://time.com/longform/john-moore-getty-photo-separation/
   1322. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5697918)
@AG_Conservative:
You now realize why Trump chooses the media as a foil and yells about fake news?

His support fully depends on an opponent as unpopular as he is. The media consistently earns its awful reputation, which allows him to use them as that foil.
   1323. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5697923)
Elsewhere, I've backed the imperfect but promising Cruz proposal

Not even the Cato institute can support Cruz's plan. The descriptions of his two-week requirement for asylum seekers to be adjudicated have run the gamut from "absurd" to "insane".
   1324. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5697924)
Juan about is refreshed and eager to justify concentration camps for dirty immigrant infestations.
   1325. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5697926)
The media consistently earns its awful reputation

You can get all your news from Trump from now on, Jason. Good luck in Turkey.
   1326. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5697928)
Funny, Andy, the only time the Time Magazine family has been separated was... when she took her youngest to the border, leaving her husband and other children behind in Honduras.

Chased by narco-traffickers, gang members & murderous militias, right? We've been relatedly told here that these are legitimate claims for political asylum, not just illegal border-crossers.
   1327. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5697929)
Not even the Cato institute can support Cruz's plan.
Oy. Who wants to tell Lassus about Cato?
   1328. PepTech Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5697931)
Nice to see you back, JE!

So, in your opinion, does TIME magazine badly misrepresenting *this particular girl's situation* obviate any concern you might have about the border/children situation in general?
   1329. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5697932)
You can get all your news from Trump from now on, Jason.
Your choosing not to blockquote the rest of AG's tweet explains why you'll forever be Charlie Brown to Trump's Lucy.
   1330. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5697933)
AFAIK, Rommel never joined the Nazi Party.


Very few high-ranking Wehrmacht officers did. There were a few exceptions - Eduard Dietl, Walter Model - but by and large, generals and field marshals that were actual Nazi party members either commanded Waffen-SS elements or, in the general Wehrmacht - got their promotions in no small part due to their party membership. Rundstedt, Guderian, Paulus among plenty of others never joined the Nazi party either.

However, Rommel was most certainly a Nazi supporter in the 1930s - and he very much enjoyed the symbiotic relationship of career advancement in tandem with his use for Nazi propaganda. He was also very close with Hitler.

The myth of Rommel is really just a subset of the "clean Wehrmacht" myth. While the July 20th plot led to his 'suicide' - he not-so-much "turned" as looked away as elements in Germany actually did "turn" on Hitler only because he wasn't delusional enough to believe there was any hope left in the German war effort and knew there could be no surrender so long as Hitler still reigned. He certainly didn't do anything to staunch the regime - the best one can say is that he passively (rather than actively and aloud) opposed the July 20 plot. His downfall was little more than a matter of too many connections running through him (Hans Speidel, one of the plotters who survived the war only because virtually the entire OKH refused to expel him from the army and thus hand him over to Roland Freisler's court, had become Rommel's chief of staff in early 1944).

More than likely, had Rommel survived the war - the chances are pretty good he wouldn't have served time (mainly because of fairly glowing allied press during the war)... and since he hadn't really served on the Russian front, the Russians probably wouldn't have demanded him.... but he was probably more Mitläufer than Entlastete.
   1331. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5697935)
Nice to see you back, JE!
Thanks, PT, although I might have to take another extended breather if count posts a dozen opuses claiming the latest IG report shows the FBI was really bailing out Trump.
So, in your opinion, does TIME magazine badly misrepresenting *this particular girl's situation* obviate any concern you might have about the border/children situation in general?
I backed the Cruz proposal as a positive starting point from the get-go.

And to be clear, the MSM has misrepresented the entire situation, which is pathetic since there was good reason to be critical of the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policy.
   1332. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5697937)
Time Magazine correction:
The original version of this story misstated what happened to the girl in the photo after she taken from the scene. The girl was not carried away screaming by U.S. Border Patrol agents; her mother picked her up and the two were taken away together.


I eagerly await your correction of Trump 6000+ (and counting) lies.

But you'd better pack some sandwiches, because he spouts about half a dozen or more of them a day.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice to see you back, JE!

So, in your opinion, does TIME magazine badly misrepresenting *this particular girl's situation* obviate any concern you might have about the border/children situation in general?


I already tried asking him that question. Hope you have better luck than I did getting him to answer it, when he just went back to the one case that TIME screwed up on.

EDIT: I see now he's expanded his non-response to going after the entire MSM, as if the MSM had been the ones who'd ordered the family separation policy.
   1333. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5697938)

And to be clear, the MSM has misrepresented the entire situation, which is pathetic since there was good reason to be critical of the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policy.

And if only the MSM would shut up about it, I'm sure you'd be criticizing it right and left, just like you always have! Dirty MSM!
   1334. Jess Franco Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:32 PM (#5697939)
Excuse me? Someone who works at a university -- an ENGLISH university -- does not recognize the name Erwin Rommel?


Once you take the route of ignorance, why not go whole hog?

AFAIK, Rommel never joined the Nazi Party.


Unlike that honored American SS-Sturmbannführer Wernher von Braun.
   1335. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5697943)
Steve King - the spiritual anchor of the Trumpublican party, previously seen back at it retweeting actual, proud neo-nazis and joining an international campaign to free Tommy Robinson - is at it again.
Steve King singles out Somali Muslims over pork
The Iowa congressman says they shouldn’t work in his district’s meat-packing plants because they won’t eat pig products.


Alas, there is no Nuremberg, IA.... so King will have to come up with his own nomenclature for his laws.
   1336. PepTech Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5697944)
I backed the Cruz proposal as a positive starting point from the get-go.

And to be clear, the MSM has misrepresented the entire situation, which is pathetic since there was good reason to be critical of the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policy.
All of which seemingly carefully avoids actually condemning the situation. How about one quick and clear "this situation is reprehensible" just for grins?

Calling out TIME or the MSM, backing Cruz, and saying there "was good reason to be critical" stops short of openly condemning the practice. You must understand that, you're an intelligent fellow.
   1337. Jess Franco Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5697945)
Juan about is refreshed and eager to justify concentration camps for dirty immigrant infestations.


Jason is a swell fellow and all, but his return means endless Twitter quotes and even more endless bouts of Juanism. To be fair, these faults are exacerbated by tireless moral posturing, denunciations, calls for denunciations...

We all missed our calling as Commies, perhaps.
   1338. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5697948)

Not even the Cato institute can support Cruz's plan.
I don't understand what that means. It's like saying, "Not even Greenpeace supports the Dakota Access Pipeline."
   1339. Jess Franco Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5697949)
To be a hypocrite, I note crickets in response to my list of Dem Senators voting for Iraq, because if we start denouncing normal American politicians for being normal American war criminals, we'd have to recognize the reality of the State in which we live and breathe.

Call it sleeping with the fishes. Guillermo del Toro should make a sequel.
   1340. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5697952)
Oy. Who wants to tell Lassus about Cato?

Oy. Who wants to hear Jason complain about someone else's lack of substance?

EDIT: (And for David's #1338) While being SOOOOOOO far above both of them, so that each appear to be bugs on a massive, ideologically pristine dinner table spanning a million square miles, who more often does Cato fall behind, policy-wise, liberals or conservatives?

The point is, Cruz's bill sucks, is going nowhere, and was probably specifically designed to virtue-signal itself off a cliff, simply a cliff up around the corner instead of one in plain sight.
   1341. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5697957)
To be a hypocrite, I note crickets in response to my list of Dem Senators voting for Iraq, because if we start denouncing normal American politicians for being normal American war criminals, we'd have to recognize the reality of the State in which we live and breathe.


Why do we need to re-denounce votes most of us denounced 16 years ago? I backed anti-Iraq candidates in both the 2004 and 2008 primaries. I did vote for one of the yes votes in the 2004 GE - but it was very much a case of the less bad alternative.

More than 60% of House Democrats voted against the Iraq AUMF - and while 29 Senate Democratic cowards feared looking 'weak', 21 did vote No.

To the extent my little vote, small wallet, and occasional free-time hold any sway - I consistently used them to back the ~1/2 or so of the Democratic that opposed the debacle. When fall came and I only had less bad options, I went with the less bad options.
   1342. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5697960)
How about one quick and clear "this situation is reprehensible" just for grins?
Kindly leave the tiresome games to Andy. My criticism is obvious.
   1343. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5697961)
The point is, Cruz's bill sucks
Why does it suck?
   1344. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5697962)
The point is, Cruz's bill sucks, is going nowhere, and was probably specifically designed to virtue-signal itself off a cliff, simply a cliff up around the corner instead of one in plain sight.


Probably a good time to note that there does - and has for some time now - existed a Democratic bill that narrowly addresses the entire kaboodle that all 49 Democratic Senators have signed onto. There is also a parallel Democratic House proposal.

The bill addresses every last alleged Trumpublican excuse - however stupid and dishonest.

But yes, yes... The Democrats are obstructing... and it's not the GOP's fault everybody in the GOP has their own individual virtue signaling "bill" (to the extent press releases constitute such)... and the only bills GOP 'leadership' lets come up for votes are those blessed by the whacko caucus.
   1345. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5697963)
And if only the MSM would shut up about it, I'm sure you'd be criticizing it right and left, just like you always have! Dirty MSM!
Or do the incredibly unthinkable and accurately report what's going on and leave the wholesale posturing to ed boards and opinion show hosts?
   1346. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5697964)
The bill addresses every last alleged Trumpublican excuse - however stupid and dishonest.
Are you referencing this?

Democrats’ Border Separation Bill Would Let Nearly All Parents Who Commit Federal Crimes Get Off Scot-Free:
Thus, far from addressing the border crisis, the Democrats’ Keep Families Together Act applies almost everywhere in the country to prohibit any DHS, DOJ, or HHS officer from removing almost any child from a parent. The listed exceptions to the prohibition—a state court authorizes separation, a state child welfare agency determines that the child is in danger, or certain DHS officials establish that the child is a victim of trafficking or is in danger from the parent, or that the parent is not the actual parent of the child—are completely unrelated to the vast majority of DHS, DOJ, and HHS enforcement activity.

Two groups would not benefit from the prohibition on family separation in this bill. First, parents who have children with a permanent immigration status go unprotected. Additionally, the childless would obviously find no shelter from this legislation. This disparity in treatment for the childless and lawful permanent residents borders on the farcical. ...

Panicky lawmaking often produces absurd results, and this one presents law enforcement with the choice between keeping children with their criminal parents while prosecuting them almost anywhere in the United States and for any crime whatsoever, or not prosecuting criminal parents at all. The legislation is not limited to unlawful entry prosecutions, to migrants, or (absent amendment) even to alien children.

A more honest method of ending unlawful entry prosecutions—and the family separations that ensue—would be to repeal 8 U.S.C. § 1325, which criminalizes unlawful entry in the first place. That would at least have the benefit of not curtailing federal enforcement of every other criminal law on the books for parents who keep their children close.

At a minimum, Democrats’ proposed legislation is the consequence of extremely careless and hurried drafting. If this is actually what Democrats intend to do—and every Democratic senator has now signed on—it is a monstrous attack on law and order. If enacted, this bill would turn federal law enforcement upside down in the name of protecting relatively few unlawful border crossers from being prosecuted. This sloppiness is a prime example of why Democrats are unserious about outcomes and unfit to govern when the emotional stakes get high.
Emphasis mine.
   1347. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5697965)
Why does it suck?
1323. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5697923)

The descriptions of his two-week requirement for asylum seekers to be adjudicated have run the gamut from "absurd" to "insane".
   1348. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5697967)
The descriptions of his two-week requirement for asylum seekers to be adjudicated have run the gamut from "absurd" to "insane".
So double the time then. It's a starting point.

Running away from the Cruz proposal merely suggests that you and your pals don't give two shits about finding a pragmatic solution, preferring the usual hair-on-fire outrage.
   1349. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5697968)
Or do the incredibly unthinkable and accurately report what's going on

Screaming children are indeed being removed from their parents and have been sent to foster centers thousands of miles away. There are reports of no records or no plans set up to return. This HAS been accurately reported. Who would you like to bitch at in response instead of addressing the issue?
   1350. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5697969)
Running away from the Cruz proposal merely suggests that you and your pals don't give two shits about finding a pragmatic solution

Opposing a solution that is the opposite of pragmatic shows we don't care about a pragmatic solution. Seems fair.
   1351. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5697970)
The point is, Cruz's bill sucks

Why does it suck?


Mainly because it's a fig leaf -

There are more than 300,000 pending asylum cases - and Cruz thinks that just doubling the number of the asylum judges paired with requiring adjudication within 14 days is going to help matters?

As Count has relayed several times from his own experience as counsel in such a matter - the cases simply don't move that quickly.

What's more, the bill expands the discretion of the attorney general - and the current attorney general (together with his boss and his boss's little Himmler) is at the core of the problem.

It makes the asylum problem worse - but puts a fig leaf on it by making worse for asylum seekers by keeping families together during the worsening.

So people are supposed to cheer that?
   1352. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5697971)
Screaming children are indeed being removed from their parents and have been sent to foster centers thousands of miles away. There are reports of no records or no plans set up to return. This HAS been accurately reported. Who would you like to ##### at in response instead of addressing the issue?
That still doesn't explain the non-stop editorializing. And where were all of those news reports when this #### started, Lassus? 2014 called, Lassus, and wants all of these photos back.
   1353. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5697975)
Thus, far from addressing the border crisis, the Democrats’ Keep Families Together Act applies almost everywhere in the country to prohibit any DHS, DOJ, or HHS officer from removing almost any child from a parent. The listed exceptions to the prohibition—a state court authorizes separation, a state child welfare agency determines that the child is in danger, or certain DHS officials establish that the child is a victim of trafficking or is in danger from the parent, or that the parent is not the actual parent of the child—are completely unrelated to the vast majority of DHS, DOJ, and HHS enforcement activity.

This may certainly be true, and the hurried solution may certainly suck (like Cruz's) - Dems are also pretty great at that; but I'm going to need people in addition to the Paranoidalist Federalist to tell me so.
   1354. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5697976)
Who would you like to bitch at in response instead of addressing the issue?
When I'm right, I'm right. I guess it's... the press still.


That still doesn't explain the non-stop editorializing.

Yes, if only the press hadn't started that just this year.
   1355. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5697977)
EDIT: (And for David's #1338) While being SOOOOOOO far above both of them, so that each appear to be bugs on a massive, ideologically pristine dinner table spanning a million square miles, who more often does Cato fall behind, policy-wise, liberals or conservatives?
I don't mean to be cute here, but Cato never "falls behind" any party (or ideology, other than, of course, libertarian). Sometimes Cato's views overlap with one party/ideology or the other, but that's just coincidence, not the result of coordination. Cato is no more likely to support a proposal because a Republican proposes it than they are because a Democrat does. So an "even Cato doesn't support it" just doesn't make sense as an argument against a GOP proposal.
   1356. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5697984)
Sometimes Cato's views overlap with one party/ideology or the other, but that's just coincidence

"Falls behind" was an awful way to put that, and yours was certainly better.

While Cato is no more likely to support a Dem or GOP proposal, the fact that Cato coincidentally overlaps with conservatives in relation to liberals at about 20 to 1 (what a coincidence!) is why I phrased the post that way.
   1357. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5697986)
Mainly because it's a fig leaf -
Well, whaddaya know, it appears Feinstein is now working with Cruz on finding a solution.

EDIT: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/22/cruz-feinstein-immigration-663319
There are more than 300,000 pending asylum cases - and Cruz thinks that just doubling the number of the asylum judges paired with requiring adjudication within 14 days is going to help matters?
Then add more judges. Extend the asylum process to four, five, or six weeks to allow for attorneys to present a credible case. But allowing illegal immigrants into the United States with no restrictions simply because they filed an asylum claim is unacceptable.
What's more, the bill expands the discretion of the attorney general - and the current attorney general (together with his boss and his boss's little Himmler) is at the core of the problem.
Yeah, okay, thanks for illustrating for the umteenth time it's a mistake to take your comments seriously.
   1358. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5697988)
Democrats’ Border Separation Bill Would Let Nearly All Parents Who Commit Federal Crimes Get Off Scot-Free:


It's a non-serious analysis.

The bill specifically and explicitly references the alleged 1997 law* that is supposedly the cause of this all - and explicitly refers to its definitions except where amended. The idea that it opens some YUGE loophole is silly, but if you want to clean up the legislative language, fine.

*Which, BTW - with the lies from Trump and his Trumpkins coming so fast and furious, I realize this constitutes a nitpick... but FFS, I'm really ####### tired of it being a called a "Democrat Law" just because Bill Clinton signed it. It was sponsored by Republicans and passed by Republicans who controlled the House 226-207 and the Senate 55-45. Yeah, yeah... it passed both chambers overwhelmingly, but FFS already.
   1359. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5697989)
Well, whaddaya know, it appears Feinstein is working with Cruz on finding a solution.

Which I totally support (unless it also sucks - I'm able to say that about the Dems without a system failure or kernel error). Doesn't mean Cruz's bill doesn't suck, though.
   1360. zenbitz Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5697992)
AFAIK, Rommel never joined the Nazi Party.


The original #NeverHitler but hey I'll prosecute his villainous war. Erwin Rommel, ladies and gentlemen -- he's not LITERALLY a Nazi, merely a useful and willing tool of evil.

And yes, I am aware he was part of at least one of the failed plots to kill Hitler. I guess that makes him better* than #NeverTrumper sycophants.

* Relative to their respective Fuhrers of course. I am in no way comparing DT to AH. Not at all. Uh-uh. No sirree. Why that would be an EXTREME exaggeration.

EDIT For Coke owage.

Do we know conclusively that Rommel was aware, let alone approved, of the plot?


This is a good point actually. I think it's *accepted* that the accusations were true but I don't think there is hard proof. And, without checking wikipedia or anything I believe he was "given the choice of honorable suicide" in the AFTERMATH of the '44 plot. So someone in the Nazi party did think he was in on it. Not that they were big on fair trials.
   1361. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5697993)
Some polling on immigration issues from The Economist/YouGov. Only 19% of respondents favored [the Obama Administration policy] releasing illegal border-crossers to report back for a subsequent hearing, while 44% favored holding families illegally crossing the border together in detention centers until a later hearing, and 20% favored holding the adults in jail and sending the minors to shelters or juvenile detention facilities. That may explain why those supporting catch & release do so by relentlessly attacking the other options rather than defending their own unpopular preference.
   1362. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5697997)
Well, whaddaya know, it appears Feinstein is now working with Cruz on finding a solution.


Ummm.... the Democrats really have no choice. They've been shut out of the process. Wake me when the House - which for the past 5 years since the 2013 bill got shelved by Boehner (back when Obama was an Obama borders softie, rather than today when that same Obama is the cruel genesis of all these tough immigration measures) - hasn't involved Democrats in any manner whatsoever.

The Senate GOP isn't as bad as the House GOP... yay?

Then add more judges. Extend the asylum process to four, five, or six weeks to allow for attorneys to present a credible case. But allowing illegal immigrants into the United States with no restrictions simply because they file an asylum claim is unacceptable.


"To allow for attorneys".... You are aware that asylum seekers are not actually entitled to legal representation, aren't you? Or has the Federalist not made you aware of that fact?

Most asylum seekers go through the process without any legal representation. They can hire attorneys - and there do exist legal aid groups that try to help (as well as attorneys who help pro bono), but you're operating under a delusion that it's the norm rather than an exception.

Yeah, okay, thanks for illustrating for the umteenth time it's a mistake to take your comments seriously.


Oh, because I said "Himmler"?

Sorry - this must have been during your recharge and refresh time, so I'll repeat where I got it from....

"Stephen actually enjoys seeing those pictures at the border," an outside White House adviser said. "He's a twisted guy, the way he was raised and picked on. There's always been a way he's gone about this. He's Waffen-SS."


EDIT: FTR - I objected to usage of "Waffen-SS". Miller would more accurately be called "Allgemeine SS"... Hence why I referred to him as Himmler. Dude ain't no Otto Skorzeny commando.
   1363. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5697999)
Then add more judges.


Easier said than done. No one knows where they come from.
   1364. zenbitz Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5698000)
The media consistently earns its awful reputation, which allows him to use them as that foil.


So, this is literally saying the Trump purposefully seeks out and creates bad press for himself, so that he can blame the press for his bad actions? Is that part of kafaybe (heel mode?), YR?

Is pouting and whining petulantly an act?

I mean, I don't want to get giddy about the effect of the "new" border policy on domestic politics... but should this go as Mouse envisions I get back to wondering if Trump was just a Democrat mole all along.
   1365. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5698002)
Less snarky

Trump rejects calls for more immigration judges: 'We have to have a real border, not judges'


President Trump on Tuesday pushed back against efforts to hire more immigration judges to address the influx of migrants arriving at the Mexico-U.S. border.

Trump spent much of his speech at the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) railing against illegal immigration and emphasizing the need to close the southern border. During an aside on the need for border security, Trump declared judges are ineffective in combatting illegal immigration.

“Ultimately, we have to have a real border, not judges,” Trump said.


“Thousands and thousands of judges they want to hire. Who are these people?” Trump continued. “When we vet a single federal judge it goes through a big process.”
   1366. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5698003)
Easier said than done. No one knows where they come from.

MEXICO!
   1367. zenbitz Posted: June 22, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5698005)
I note crickets in response to my list of Dem Senators voting for Iraq


I have never voted for Feinstein. In fact, we "true progressives" have a bad taste in the mouth from her reign as Mayor of SF in the 80s. (Word of warning for any Gavin Newsom fans... he's cut from the same cloth... and I get the same vibe from Kamala Harris - SF City DA)

In 2002 however, I *had* voted in NY for Senator Hillary Clinton, and I did vote for her vs Trump (but never in a primary). I think I can be forgiven for that.
   1368. zenbitz Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5698007)
Running away from the Cruz proposal merely suggests that you and your pals don't give two shits about finding a pragmatic solution,


I'll worry about Cruz' nonsense when the GOP Congress puts it up for a vote. Until then, it's air. Congress doesn't need Democrats to pass anything short of a constitutional amendment, so WTF is stopping them?
   1369. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5698009)
It's a non-serious analysis.

The bill specifically and explicitly references the alleged 1997 law* that is supposedly the cause of this all - and explicitly refers to its definitions except where amended. The idea that it opens some YUGE loophole is silly, but if you want to clean up the legislative language, fine.
So first you claim it's not serious, then acknowledge it might be. Awesome.
   1370. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5698010)
Do we know conclusively that Rommel was aware, let alone approved, of the plot?

This is a good point actually. I think it's *accepted* that the accusations were true but I don't think there is hard proof. And, without checking wikipedia or anything I believe he was "given the choice of honorable suicide" in the AFTERMATH of the '44 plot. So someone in the Nazi party did think he was in on it. Not that they were big on fair trials.


Generally, Rommel's "problem" was that the plotters felt they needed a 'respected' - and active - Field Marshall post-assassination... and they wanted Rommel. Erwin von Witzleben was ultimately settled on as the head of the post-Hitler Wehrmacht (Ludwig Beck was to be head of state), but the conspirators worried that they really needed someone still with an active command. Witzleben had fallen out of favor with Hitler during Barbarossa and stripped of his field command (or retired for health reasons, as the Nazis then said... it's not clear what the truth was - and his health did ultimately badly deteriorate in 1944 when he was strung up).

Basically - got implicated because a lot of the communications between the plotters mentioned him as the preferred choice to take charge of the army post-plot, and under torture - he also got named.

I think the general view is that Rommel at least suspected a plot was afoot, but knew no specifics or details. As noted upthread - plotter Hans Speidel was basically recruited to bring him onboard after becoming Rommel's chief of staff. He certainly tried to sidle the idea - feeling out Rommel, but it didn't really go anywhere because Rommel made it pretty clear opposed actually assassinating Hitler.
   1371. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5698016)
Democrats’ Border Separation Bill Would Let Nearly All Parents Who Commit Federal Crimes Get Off Scot-Free:

It's a non-serious analysis.


Juan thinks /pol is serious analysis. That's because he's about as serious as the rest of the 4chan trolls.
   1372. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5698017)
So first you claim it's not serious, then acknowledge it might be. Awesome.


Yeah, serious man.

Just out of curiosity, since you outsource your thoughts to the Vichy hive that is the Federalist and expect people to analyze it and take it seriously... does this mean I can just link to say, Slate or Salon and expect the same?

Asking because it would be easier.
   1373. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5698019)
Juan thinks /pol is serious analysis. That's because he's about as serious as the rest of the 4chan trolls.


Wait. wait.

That reminds me... I thought we had agreed on Juannity... is that not a thing? Because I thought we voted and agreed.
   1374. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5698030)
So, this is literally saying the Trump purposefully seeks out and creates bad press for himself, so that he can blame the press for his bad actions? Is that part of kafaybe (heel mode?), YR?
Bad press isn't the same as fake or misleading news.
   1375. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5698031)
Following up on #1361, a bit more immigration issue polling. When families are arrested and separated, 54% of likely U.S. voters say that parents illegally crossing the border are more to blame for the separation, while only 35% believe the government is more to blame for enforcing the law, and 11% are not sure who is more to blame.
   1376. spanx for the memories Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5698032)
In the age of Trump, evangelicals support a pimp for office

He styles himself as America's best-known pimp, a strip-club owner who runs multiple brothels and looks set to win a seat as a Republican in the Nevada legislature with the blessing of many conservative Christian voters.

Meet Dennis Hof, whose political rise reflects fundamental changes in electoral norms that have roiled the Republican Party and upended American politics during the era of President Donald Trump.
   1377. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5698033)
The media consistently earns its awful reputation, which allows him to use them as that foil.

So, this is literally saying the Trump purposefully seeks out and creates bad press for himself, so that he can blame the press for his bad actions? Is that part of kafaybe (heel mode?), YR?


There's a lot of commonality between Trump and Hulk Hogan, really. There can be no doubt that what Hogan offered in the 80s was an empty, unsophistcated product marketed towards children and in almost every way inferior to nearly any alternative. A triumph of marketing to the least-educated and least-knowledgeable consumer with the shallowest grasp of history, the Hogan era relied on manipulating coverage and an insular propaganda campaign to exploit the ignorant for massive profits. The fact that any principled observer could see that Hogan was clearly the heel in most of his exploits (such as illegally disqualifying rival Sid Justice at the 1992 Royal Rumble) despite the constant drumbeat of positive coverage from his stooge media has not escaped the notice of any sophisticated viewer.

To the surprise of nobody who understands the carny nature of pro-wrestling, Donald Trump added the professional wrestling promoter involved in Hogan's steroid-pumped rise to be part of his cabinet.
   1378. Traderdave Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5698035)
Just because Rommel never cooperated with an Einsatzgruppen unit, as many of his peers in the East did, and never opened a can of Zyklon B does NOT absolve him of association with Hitler. He literally owed his career and great personal fame to Hitler. He cultivated and maintained a strong personal relationship with Hitler and happily accepted Goebbels' propaganda campaigns that turned him into a national hero.

Even if he'd done it regretfully, there is little reason to doubt he'd have been involved in atrocities had he been posted to the Eastern Front (oh, and Happy Barbarossa Day!) because virtually all Wehrmacht leaders did.
   1379. Mike A Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5698039)
The fact that any principled observer could see that Hogan was clearly the heel in most of his exploits (such as illegally disqualifying rival Sid Justice at the 1992 Royal Rumble) despite the constant drumbeat of positive coverage from his stooge media has not escaped the notice of any sophisticated viewer.
Jesse Ventura tried to tell us the truth.
   1380. Morty Causa Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5698041)
Congressmen and Senators can be forgiven for taking President at his word in a crisis. And that was the predicate, stated and tacit, of those in Congress who voted for war in Iraq. It was put to them in terms of we have to do this right now, no time to wait or deliberate. This was like Pearl Harbor, is how it was framed. And we didn't declare war on Japan after a six-month, year, two-year study. Congress took FDR at his word. Those who saw through the bogusness of that should get extra credit, but I can't see holding grudges against those who conscientiously took the Administration at its word. That Administration bears the blame and it should bear just about all of the blame.
   1381. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5698044)
The fact that any principled observer could see that Hogan was clearly the heel in most of his exploits (such as illegally disqualifying rival Sid Justice at the 1992 Royal Rumble) despite the constant drumbeat of positive coverage from his stooge media has not escaped the notice of any sophisticated viewer.

It's quite a stretch to classify an adult who still follows professional wrestling as a "sophisticated viewer".
   1382. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5698045)
Following up on #1361, a bit more immigration issue polling. When families are arrested and separated, 54% of likely U.S. voters say that parents illegally crossing the border are more to blame for the separation, while only 35% believe the government is more to blame for enforcing the law, and 11% are not sure who is more to blame.
And yet Trump still chose to back down and pretty much let Congress off the hook. Sad!
   1383. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5698046)
Congressmen and Senators can be forgiven for taking President at his word in a crisis. And that was the predicate, stated and tacit, of those in Congress who voted for war in Iraq. It was put to them in terms of we have to do this right now, no time to wait or deliberate. This was like Pearl Harbor, is how it was framed.


Actually the way it was framed is that supporting the authorization for use of military force made war LESS likely because it would intimidate those craven Iraqis to comply with UN investigators by giving our stoic, rock-jawed cowboy president the tools he needed to gain their compliance. These cowardly rag-headed Jihadists only understand the threat of force, you see. Show them you're willing to knuckle-up and they'll cower.
   1384. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5698049)
The fact that any principled observer could see that Hogan was clearly the heel in most of his exploits (such as illegally disqualifying rival Sid Justice at the 1992 Royal Rumble) despite the constant drumbeat of positive coverage from his stooge media has not escaped the notice of any sophisticated viewer.

It's quite a stretch to classify an adult who still follows professional wrestling as a "sophisticated viewer".


Trying to play the elitist card are we? Let's hope your Trumpholstering colleagues don't find out you're disparaging the entertainment choices of the common man in favor of the Ballet Russes and the films of Lars Van Trier.
   1385. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5698051)

Meet Dennis Hof, whose political rise reflects fundamental changes in electoral norms that have roiled the Republican Party and upended American politics during the era of President Donald Trump.


Heh - I've met the guy... not in the way you think and actually, didn't know it was him until afterwards.

My dad retired to Pahrump (the district he's looking to represent and the area where most of his brothels are) - but anyway, playing cards at one of the casinos, I happened to be at the same table as him.

Guy was a grade A, top-notch #######. I was annoyed to be at the same table with him. He was obnoxious, rude, and just genuinely unpleasant in that sort of "Look at me! I'm larger than life and my obnoxiousness is just being gregarious in a way you don't get!"

Ultimately, I quit the table when the... whoever... he was with knocked my drink over.

As I walked over to meet my dad to leave, he said "so you met Dennis Hof?" - and then explained to me who he is.

I doubt I'll ever meet Donald Trump in person (fortunately for him), but my very strong guess is that I have had the displeasure of 'meeting' a close enough approximation.
   1386. Omineca Greg Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5698054)
   1387. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5698055)
in favor of the Ballet Rrusses

Go back to Miami and leave us civilized people alone.
   1388. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5698059)
I'll mince where I want to mince and you won't do a damn thing about it.
   1389. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5698062)
Just because Rommel never cooperated with an Einsatzgruppen unit, as many of his peers in the East did, and never opened a can of Zyklon B does NOT absolve him of association with Hitler. He literally owed his career and great personal fame to Hitler. He cultivated and maintained a strong personal relationship with Hitler and happily accepted Goebbels' propaganda campaigns that turned him into a national hero. Even if he'd done it regretfully, there is little reason to doubt he'd have been involved in atrocities had he been posted to the Eastern Front (oh, and Happy Barbarossa Day!) because virtually all Wehrmacht leaders did.

Thank you - that whole discussion was damned odd.
   1390. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5698066)
As long as you aren't dragging Max Schmeling into the discussion I don't care.
   1391. Srul Itza Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5698071)
My dad retired to Pahrump


Pahrump? Seriously? You couldn't make up a more believable name than Pahrump.
   1392. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5698077)
Trae Crowder: Still Awesome
   1393. Srul Itza Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5698081)
Yeah, that was a DINO.


David: Did it strike you that Gorsuch's opinion was written in a highly colloquial manner, more so than most other things that come out of the Court? I have to think that this is his genuine voice, as I find it hard to imagine some Clerk writing in that matter about putting Fido up for adoption or "Try that one out on your neighbors" or "the habits of raccoons don’t prove much about the habits of the country".

It made for better reading than the usual diatribes of dissenters.
   1394. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5698082)
(oh, and Happy Barbarossa Day!)
#TooSoon #Evergreen
   1395. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5698083)
Pahrump? Seriously? You couldn't make up a more believable name than Pahrump.


It's the royal seat of the Kingdom of Nye.

Truly one of the weirdest, oddest places in the country... and I say that with complete confidence despite not being the most traveled guy.

   1396. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5698091)
YR mentioning the best Royal Rumble match of all time was a nice palette cleanser for this thread.
   1397. Count Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5698092)
There is no crisis of immigrants wreaking havoc while awaiting asylum hearings. And I have no idea why JE thinks it’s uaccepptae for asylum applicant to be in the country pending a hearing. Trump wasn’t trying to solve a problem by separating families, he was being deliberately cruel as a “deterrant.”
   1398. Count Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5698093)
People who are awaiting asylum hearings have legal status and work. I understand that the Trump position is that Latinos pollute our blood but if you aren’t working from that basis there’s no reason to follow their lead.
   1399. Stormy JE Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5698098)
There is no crisis of immigrants wreaking havoc while awaiting asylum hearings. And I have no idea why JE thinks it’s uaccepptae for asylum applicant to be in the country pending a hearing. Trump wasn’t trying to solve a problem by separating families, he was being deliberately cruel as a “deterrant.”
There's an obvious problem with allowing everyone who enters the United States ILLEGALLY (as opposed to claiming asylum at a port of entry) to be permitted to wander around the country unencumbered while awaiting an asylum hearing.
   1400. JJ1986 Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5698099)
I genuinely am curious about where 'pals' comes from.
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