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Monday, June 18, 2018

OTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game

“This game is a situation of which, you’re a product of your political success, so if you have a good political year, you have a good recruiting year for this game.” So said former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., many years ago about the Congressional Baseball Game and the teams each party gets to field.

Washington is host to the 2018 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, known among fans as the midsummer classic. But Capitol Hill has staged its own midsummer classic every year for more than five decades, the Congressional Baseball Game.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:15 AM | 1775 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1701. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5698989)
Yes, this plan may backfire. But continuing what anti- (or at least non-) Trump Republicans have been doing isn't working.
It isn't, David? Just look at nearly every judicial nominee who has cleared the Senate Judiciary Committee. (Do you have serious objections to any of those nominees?) Or the tax relief. Or withdrawals from the comically awful Iran nuke deal and toothless, yet moneysucking Paris climate pact.
   1702. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:45 AM (#5698990)
Does Trumpholster Juan have any family left in Puerto Rico? He’s been surprisingly quiet on the recovery efforts.
   1703. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:45 AM (#5698991)
Does this thought not work similarly against the idea that liberals want to take everyone’s guns? How would that work exactly.
Let's see now, gun possession is basically *legal*. In contrast, *illegal* immigration is basically _______.
   1704. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5698993)
...in which Juan adds "logistics" to the lengthy list of concepts he is unclear on.
   1705. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:05 AM (#5698994)
I see JE is as hysterical and non-responsive as ever. Gone for a long time and now like a nine year old who has been sucking down pixie sticks for a couple hours.

Oh well on some level it is amusing to watch, so watch away while we wait for the new thread I just submitted to show up.
   1706. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5698995)
Oh well on some level it is amusing to watch, so watch away while we wait for the new thread I just submitted to show up.
We missed you last night, Obtusity. Do you still claim with a straight face that there are no folks here essentially advocating for open borders?

And feel free to focus your amusement on me but David pretty much made the same points.
   1707. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5698998)
We missed you last night, Obtusity. Do you still claim with a straight face that there are no folks here essentially advocating for open borders?


We have discussed at cross purposes on this issue. You seem to believe that anything short of the most maximum enforcement of current immigration law = open borders. I have the weird notion that open borders means ... wait for it ... open borders. The Schengen Area is an example of open borders. The border between the US and Mexico, under Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump is not an open border.

Until you opt to use an actual standard definition of the term open borders then this discussion is truly pointless. Because every conversation goes ... blah, blah, and unless you are willing to deport in this instance it is ...wait for it ... wait for it ... wait for it ... effectively open borders.

In this discussion, for you and David EVERYTHING is effectively open borders, even when the borders are, you know, not open. And no, saying ICE needs to be examined for restructuring up to and including staring over with a new service is NOT really open borders. But because you dishonestly pretend it is, heck pretend everything is, this conversation goes no where.

Short answer: Yes. I am not advocating for open borders, by any definition but the dumbest one (yours).

EDIT: And by the way I never claimed "No one" advocated open borders. My claim (the one I have been trying to make) is that open borders - Schengen Area - is virtually unrepresented by the Democratic Party, basically no one in power holds that position.
   1708. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5698999)
JE started out as a "#NeverTrump", and now on immigration he's more Trumpish than Trump himself. He's a perfect symbol of what George Will was talking about.

Oh? And is David Jeff Sessions' long lost twin?


Maybe you might read what David wrote in response to Will's column in #1688. David may defend Sessions' immigration policies for reasons he's not yet quite fully explained in any detail, but unlike you, he's consistently seen Trump for exactly what he is, and doesn't back away from drawing the obvious conclusion. Neither he nor Will are calling on Republican voters to elect Democrats in order to put liberal legislation into law, which obviously couldn't be done without veto-proof majorities; they're calling on Republican voters to vote for Democrats against "Vichy Republicans" in order to provide a constitutional check against Trump which those "Vichy Republicans" have been unwilling to provide.
   1709. Lassus Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5699001)
Do you still claim with a straight face that there are no folks here essentially advocating for open borders?

Open borders to Mars for pizza pedophiles?

You realize your interpretation of open borders is different from Count's, I guess. But yours is right?
   1710. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5699002)
You seem to believe that anything short of the most maximum enforcement of current immigration law = open borders. I have the weird notion that open borders means ... wait for it ... open borders. The Schengen Area is an example of open borders. The border between the US and Mexico, under Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump is not an open border

Hell, back in the 90's I used to have to wait at the Canadian border at Peace Arch every time I brought back a trunkload of books from Vancouver, patiently trying to explain to a bunch of dimwitted Canadian border cops that the original list price of a used book has nothing to do with its current value. And then in another memorable crossing they actually wanted me to tell them what I'd paid for each individual book and what I intended to charge for it. About the only thing the scene lacked was binding glue sniffing dogs.

The underlying resentment behind all this was the anemic value of the Canadian dollar, which seemed for awhile to result in an outpouring of anti-Americanism that manifested itself in weird directions. By contrast, the guards on the American side were uniformly cheerful and non-bureaucratic.
   1711. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:56 AM (#5699004)
You realize your interpretation of open borders is different from Count's, I guess. But yours is right?

Lest we forget, here's JE most succinct expression of his views on immigration, as he stated them in #1634:

Every illegal should be removed, absent comprehensive immigration legislation getting enacted into law.

Of course since he was also against the Gang of 8's comprehensive immigration law---the one drafted by Marco Rubio that passed the Senate with 68 votes, only to be blocked by Boehner out of fear of the Tea Party backlash---you can pretty much draw your own conclusions as to where he stands on the subject.
   1712. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5699009)
Maybe you might read what David wrote in response to Will's column in #1688.
Thank you but I already had.

So... is David also to the right of Trump and Sessions on immigration?
   1713. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5699014)
Of course since he was also against the Gang of 8's comprehensive immigration law---the one drafted by Marco Rubio that passed the Senate with 68 votes, only to be blocked by Boehner out of fear of the Tea Party backlash---you can pretty much draw your own conclusions as to where he stands on the subject.
IIRC, my no. 1 objection was that it offered a pathway to citizenship, not mere legalization. Meanwhile, you've yet to respond to our observation that you're as pro-open borders as they come. Good luck in 2020 if you think that's a winning strategy.

Thank you too for continuing to conflate legal and illegal immigration. Your perspective is Kamala Harris-Steve King level awful.
   1714. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5699015)
EDIT: And by the way I never claimed "No one" advocated open borders.
Kamala Harris says hi.
   1715. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5699020)
Kamala Harris says hi.


Once more for the slow ... suggesting a government agency is dysfunctional and needs to be restructured is not the same as advocating for a North American Schengen Area.

Meanwhile, you've yet to respond to our observation that you're as pro-open borders as they come.


I like that you refuse to give him credit for being willing to compromise. Usually you guys like to pretend that Democrats are never willing to compromise, but here is Andy saying he supported a compromise bill. You of course don't admit it is a compromise (just wait, you will argue that), but in the same breath say that the bill he supports doesn't represent his truth desires. I don't know how to break this to you, but willing to support something you don't completely agree with is compromise. Clearly Andy is willing to compromise on this subject and you want to turn it into a negative. Typical.

Good luck in 2020 if you think that's a winning strategy.


You realize the next election is in 2018, right? How about we worry about a winning strategy in 2020 after we have won in 2018? That is my plan anyway, but you should focus on 2020. Don't worry your little head about 2018, we'll take care of it for you.
   1716. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5699021)
IIRC, my no. 1 objection was that it offered a pathway to citizenship, not mere legalization


What a wonderful idea - it's always been the sign of a great country to create lesser statutory classes of residents... some with full rights, some without.

But you know, gotta be tough on that amnesty.

Because 10 years + $2000 in fine to secure a third-class residency that would then allow you get into the back of the line to secure a second-class residency that requires ANOTHER three to five years to become citizens.

That's just unbelievably terrible.
   1717. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5699023)
You realize the next election is in 2018, right?


They'd rather skip that one... After all, the one "accomplishment" isn't exactly shining bright:

According to a Monmouth University poll released this week, just 34 percent of Americans said they approve of the Republican tax reform package, compared to 41 percent who disapprove. That’s down from April, when 40 percent of Americans said they approved of the law and 44 percent did not. In January, respondents were evenly split, with 44 percent saying they approved and another 44 percent voicing disapproval of the plan.

Public opinion on the tax law has “never been positive,” said Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute, in a statement accompanying the results, “but potentially growing uncertainty about how American taxpayers will be affected does not seem to be helping the GOP’s prospects in November.”

Broadly, most polling shows the tax law is more disliked than liked by Americans. A recent Quinnipiac poll found 39 percent of respondents approve of the legislation and 46 percent disapprove of it. An Economist/YouGov poll found a smaller but still negative margin, with 38 percent approving and 40 percent not.


But, you know... I'm sure they'll be brought around by the inflation - which doesn't seem to be hitting wages, especially outside of upper levels of employment - it and other Trump dumbassery will bring about.

   1718. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5699027)
EDIT: And by the way I never claimed "No one" advocated open borders.


Of course, you can't pretend Libertarians don't exist. They're pretty easy to ignore though.
   1719. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5699032)
What a wonderful idea - it's always been the sign of a great country to create lesser statutory classes of residents... some with full rights, some without.

But you know, gotta be tough on that amnesty.

Because 10 years + $2000 in fine to secure a third-class residency that would then allow you get into the back of the line to secure a second-class residency that requires ANOTHER three to five years to become citizens.

That's just unbelievably terrible.


QFT.

We have millions of illegal long term residents here in the US. Historically this was dealt with by periodic amnesty (see St. Ronnie for an example). Mysteriously some now claim that is "effectively" open borders (of course it isn't, but knees gonna jerk). Amnesty is not an ideal solution, but the point is there is no ideal solution. In my opinion every other solution is worse, often much worse, than amnesty. SO that is what I favor until someone comes up with a better solution.

GOP President Trump doesn't have a better solution (now there is an evergreen phrase). So far no one does, but I am still listening.
   1720. Lassus Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5699033)
I won't bother with specific links, it's all over the web this morning, but (((Sorosian))) liberal mainstay Harley-Davidson is moving production of vehicles bound for the EU to the EU in order to avoid tariffs in the trade war. Stock took a dive this morning.
   1721. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5699034)
What happens when ordinary people learn economics?

You have to readjust your reading to a British mindset, but it's interesting - and likely would sound the same if a similar exercise was conducted in the US.

So what's a policy-maker or politician to do?

   1722. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5699036)
IIRC, my no. 1 objection was that it offered a pathway to citizenship,


How horrible.
   1723. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5699043)
IIRC, my no. 1 objection was that it offered a pathway to citizenship,

How horrible.


Juan's ancestors came over here swimming alongside the Mayflower.
   1724. Master of the Horse Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5699048)
JSonline article December 2017. And motorcycles for the road are stupid. Motorcycles off road are awesome

MILWAUKEE — Harley-Davidson is placing a renewed emphasis on teaching people to ride as part of its efforts to attract more customers.

The Milwaukee-based company's decision to expand the number of dealerships with a Harley "Riding Academy" comes as the industry grapples with years of declining sales and an aging customer base.

The program launched in 2000 with about 50 locations and now 245 dealerships in the U.S. offer the three- or four-day course. The company says about a quarter of those launched since 2014.

Harley sold 124,777 new motorcycles through nine months in 2017, down from 135,581 during the same period the previous year, according to the company's most recent earnings report.

The Motorcycle Industry Council says the median age of motorcycle owners increased from 32 to 47 since 1990.
   1725. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5699049)
Oh, c'mon now. I take a backseat to no one when it comes to lefty concerns, I'm pretty sure, but I have a very hard time interpreting "cotton-picking" as a racist slur. Seems like this is the second time this has come up in the last few months.

Then again ... I dunno. Maybe Foghorn Leghorn was history's greatest monster?
   1726. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5699050)
Once more for the slow ... suggesting a government agency is dysfunctional and needs to be restructured is not the same as advocating for a North American Schengen Area.
Even slower for the obtuse among us: "Open borders" is the long-term aspiration, while in the meantime the Kamala Harrises (cheered on by the usual suspects here) do everything possible to render border controls ineffective, if not useless.
   1727. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5699052)
Oh, c'mon now. I take a backseat to no one when it comes to lefty concerns, I'm pretty sure, but I have a very hard time interpreting "cotton-picking" as a racist slur. Seems like this is the second time this has come up in the last few months.

Yeah, all I know it is from Bugs Bunny.
   1728. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5699054)
What a wonderful idea - it's always been the sign of a great country to create lesser statutory classes of residents... some with full rights, some without.
So just like exchange students and seasonal agricultural workers? How horrible!

And their US-born children are/will be citizens, genius.
   1729. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5699057)
You realize the next election is in 2018, right? How about we worry about a winning strategy in 2020 after we have won in 2018? That is my plan anyway, but you should focus on 2020. Don't worry your little head about 2018, we'll take care of it for you.
First you have to win in 2018. Let's see how high that wave gets. It has looked a bit less scary in recent weeks.

BTW, I'll wager any of you geniuses right now that, should Trump run for re-election and is still alive and standing on 20 January 2021, he'll be sworn in for a second term.
   1730. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5699058)
If one were to waterboard Juannity... I'm sure he'd just tell you what you want to hear.

But if it were possible to get him to be honest, I do sometimes wonder how much of that "no. 1 objection" is solely because his party has managed to poison the well so completely and he fears the electoral retribution. Even the "but we luvs the legal immigrants!" has pretty much been blown to bits by President Prefers Good Aryan Stock and the Waffen-Millers.

Quite coincidentally, one of my friends who recently moved to Texas is a documentary film maker who is considering a project on depopulation - spurred on by driving through a lot of virtually abandoned, if not outright ghost towns, through the great plains and northern Texas.

It's a real thing.

...and even giving away land isn't helping.

Seems to me, this would be a situation tailor-made for immigration. I.e., - here's a solution - points towards accelerated citizenship adding needed young population to these rapidly aging and dying areas. Of course - immigrants are naturally going to gravitate towards urban areas and jobs.

But... since they're already giving away land and not having much luck with current US residents, what if say... asylum seekers were offered homesteads and a safe start? Many such folks are already fleeing lives of subsistence agriculture - just plagued with violence.
   1731. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5699060)
So just like exchange students and seasonal agricultural workers? How horrible!


If they desire to remain and make lives in the US, yes. It is horrible.

And their US-born children are/will be citizens, genius.


Ha, yeah... because just like all the lefties are OPEN BORDERS OPEN BORDERS, I guess then all the righties are in favor of ending "birthright citizenship" like Donald Trump, right?
   1732. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5699062)
BTW, I'll wager any of you geniuses right now that, should Trump run for re-election and is still alive and standing on 20 January 2021, he'll be sworn in for a second term.


If I get half winnings should he be impeached or resign prior, you're on.
   1733. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5699063)
We have millions of illegal long term residents here in the US. Historically this was dealt with by periodic amnesty (see St. Ronnie for an example). Mysteriously some now claim that is "effectively" open borders (of course it isn't, but knees gonna jerk).
At this point, your poor keyboard is on auto-idiot. That's not what I said.
   1734. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5699065)
If I get half winnings should he be impeached or resign prior, you're on.
Nope. This is about the election and who gets sworn in.
   1735. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5699067)
How stupid do you have to be?

FFS, I don't think there even exists any hosts that don't try to sell you the .org, .biz, etc domains when you register a domain.
   1736. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5699068)
Even slower for the obtuse among us: "Open borders" is the long-term aspiration, while in the meantime the Kamala Harrises (cheered on by the usual suspects here) do everything possible to render border controls ineffective, if not useless.


AT least you are not even pretending to care anymore about political reality, which I guess is progress.

On one side we have a group that is willing to compromise, some for one side, some for their side. One the other side we have absolutists which declare everything and anything "open borders!" and refuse to even think about compromise. And any willingness to compromise is labeled insincere because since they are willing to compromise it is all part of their evil plot for ... you guessed it OPEN BORDERS!

The entire edifice your argument is based on is extremely shaky, which you are reduced to screaming OPEN BORDERS every five seconds. You have nothing else. It is kind of sad, but in a slight bit of hope you now at least admit you are projecting into the future based on what you think is the long term aspirations and not actually talking about the deal on the table sitting in front of you.
   1737. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5699069)
If they desire to remain and make lives in the US, yes. It is horrible.
Frankly, the exchange students and seasonal agricultural workers should have more rights. At least they arrived in the country legally.
   1738. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5699070)
If I get half winnings should he be impeached or resign prior, you're on.

Nope. This is about the election and who gets sworn in.


It's gonna make Clapper jealous, but...

Koo Koo Ka Cha!
   1739. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5699071)
At this point, your poor keyboard is on auto-idiot. That's not what I said.


You and yours have called pretty much everything open borders. However, even if you have not yet done so it is a long term aspiration of yours to do so, so I am completely justified in saying it as I did. Right?
   1740. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5699072)
Oh, c'mon now. I take a backseat to no one when it comes to lefty concerns, I'm pretty sure, but I have a very hard time interpreting "cotton-picking" as a racist slur. Seems like this is the second time this has come up in the last few months.

Yeah, I've heard that phrase used hundreds of times, and never with the slightest racial connotation.
   1741. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5699074)
The entire edifice your argument is based on is extremely shaky, which you are reduced to screaming OPEN BORDERS every five seconds. You have nothing else. It is kind of sad, but in a slight bit of hope you now at least admit you are projecting into the future based on what you think is the long term aspirations and not actually talking about the deal on the table sitting in front of you.
Snore. You can keep digging toward China but at least a few of your genius pals have tacitly or explicitly acknowledged they don't believe in meaningful border controls. No wonder why you didn't answer the question about the pizza delivery dude who's now in custody.
   1742. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5699078)
It's just... well...

POPLAR BLUFF, Mo. -- A Poplar Bluff, Missouri nail manufacturer could be out of business by Labor Day according to testimony Wednesday during a Senate finance hearing in which Republicans and Democrats cited concerns with tariffs placed on imported steel and aluminum products.

Mid Continent Nail laid off 60 of its 500 employees last week, George Skarich, the company's executive vice president for sales, said Thursday. Another 200 layoffs could come in the next two weeks, Skarich said.


I might suggest folks in the area rethink their voting patterns.
   1743. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5699079)
I won't bother with specific links, it's all over the web this morning, but (((Sorosian))) liberal mainstay Harley-Davidson is moving production of vehicles bound for the EU to the EU in order to avoid tariffs in the trade war. Stock took a dive this morning.
Trump's playing high-stakes poker with his base here.
   1744. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5699080)
Even slower for the obtuse among us: "Open borders" is the long-term aspiration, while in the meantime the Kamala Harrises (cheered on by the usual suspects here) do everything possible to render border controls ineffective, if not useless.

There's a hell of a lot less evidence for that assertion than there is for inferring that Trump and Kelly want to put a complete halt to all non-European immigration, either illegal or legal.

Once again---and don't worry, there'll be more once agains forthcoming until you back down---here's what you wrote in #1634:
Every illegal should be removed, absent comprehensive immigration legislation getting enacted into law.

Since we're obviously not going to get anything close to "comprehensive immigration legislation" out of this Congress, the implications of that comment should be clear to all but the willfully blind. I'm taking that comment both literally and seriously.
   1745. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5699082)
There's a hell of a lot less evidence for that assertion than there is for inferring that Trump and Kelly want to put a complete halt to all non-European immigration, either illegal or legal.
Go ahead. Share with us all of your evidence that Trump and Kelly want to do precisely that. Hint: There is none.

Since we're obviously not going to get anything close to "comprehensive immigration legislation" out of this Congress, the implications of that comment should be clear to all but the willfully blind. I'm taking that comment both literally and seriously.
Maybe you should have also highlighted "illegal" and "should?"

And to be clear, we didn't get any "comprehensive immigration legislation" out of the last Democrat-controlled Congress either.
   1746. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5699084)
You can keep digging toward China but at least a few of your genius pals have tacitly or explicitly acknowledged they don't believe in meaningful border controls.


No they haven't. This is just Jason emulating his new hero in the Lie Big, Lie Heavy, Lie Hard school of rhetoric.
   1747. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5699086)
Sohrab Ahmari:
MUST-WATCH: Crowds in Iran are chanting "Death to Palestine!" Not to Israel. Not to America. But to Palestine.

Hamas and Hezbollah and Palestinian Jihad can kiss their Iranian funding goodbye if the regime falls.
Poor Sammy. Even the Iranian people have turned against him.
   1748. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5699087)
Poor Sammy.


Your return has been a negative, yes. Can we roll your beloved "meaningful border controls" back a few decades to keep those aimless swarthy Mediterranean types out?
   1749. Lassus Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5699088)
POPLAR BLUFF, Mo. -- A Poplar Bluff, Missouri nail manufacturer could be out of business by Labor Day according to testimony Wednesday during a Senate finance hearing in which Republicans and Democrats cited concerns with tariffs placed on imported steel and aluminum products. Mid Continent Nail laid off 60 of its 500 employees last week, George Skarich, the company's executive vice president for sales, said Thursday. Another 200 layoffs could come in the next two weeks, Skarich said.
I might suggest folks in the area rethink their voting patterns.

They could always go work for Harley-Davidson!

Also, I hear the stock market is doing OK, so those elite nail factory workers can just STFU about it at their brie and wine tastings.
   1750. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5699095)
Also, I hear the stock market is doing OK, so those elite nail factory workers can just STFU about it at their brie and wine tastings.


Well, the Dow is actually down about a 1.5% overall on the year... though that's not the be all, end all of course. Fair to say that US industrial and agricultural sectors are NOT having a good year though.
   1751. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5699098)
Got legacy?

Zeke Miller:
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — A semi-official news agency in Iran is reporting that protesters have swarmed Tehran's Grand Bazaar amid nationwide anger over the country's troubled economy.
   1752. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5699101)
How's that legacy doing now?


You do love watching other people spill blood killing Muslims, don't you Jason?
   1753. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5699106)
Jason Kander:
First conversation I had today:

“Daddy, why do you want to be mayor?”
“Because I love Kansas City and I want to help people.”
“Because Kanders help people, right?”
“Sure do, Bud.”
“Can I help you be mayor?”
“Sure can.”
“Ok I’m gonna help you help a lot of people!”
#TrueStory
And if I had a nickel for every bullshit #TrueStory the left peddles, I would have purchased Google by now and still had enough left over to buy a 5% stake in GE.

EDIT: Kudos to Comfortably Smug:

First conversation I had today:

"Daddy, why do you want to own the libs?"
"Because I love owning the libs and I want to help other people own the libs."
   1754. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5699107)
What kind of ###### up morality is this?

Walgreens pharmacist refuses to fill woman's prescription to induce a miscarriage

An Arizona woman has criticized Walgreens on social media, saying a pharmacist at the chain refused to fill her prescription for a medicine prescribed to induce miscarriage after she was told her 9-week-old fetus had stopped developing.


The key point being that the fetus was in effect dead. The drug was not being used to induce a miscarriage of a viable fetus. It was to induce the body to expel the dead tissue in a timely manner. How can that possibly be against anyone's religious beliefs?
   1755. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5699108)
Oh, snap:
Fifty-four percent say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey.
   1756. Lassus Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5699109)
And if I had a nickel for every bullshit #TrueStory the left peddles

THAT story raises your hackles? Oy.
   1757. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5699111)
Fifty-four percent say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey.

Better not look at the yield curve. It is looking much more likely that a recession is coming.
   1758. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5699112)
There's a hell of a lot less evidence for that assertion than there is for inferring that Trump and Kelly want to put a complete halt to all non-European immigration, either illegal or legal.

Go ahead. Share with us all of your evidence that Trump and Kelly want to do precisely that. Hint: There is none.


Well, other than Trump's constant conflation of all illegal Mexican immigrants and asylum seekers with MS-13 gang members, his reference to "shithole countries" and his wet dream about attracting more Norwegian immigrants. And other than this story from The Washington Examiner:
White House chief of staff John Kelly reportedly said, if it were up to him, the number of refugees that should enter the U.S. each year should be between zero and one.

Kelly's comment was made during a discussion regarding lowering annual caps on the amount of refugees entering the U.S., the New York Times reported Wednesday.

Last month, it was revealed the administration intended to lower the annual cap on admissions of refugees to 45,000. This is the lowest number seen since 1980, when the caps were first established through the U.S. Refugee Act. Under the Obama administration, the cap had been set at 110,000. ...
   1759. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5699113)
I'd have purchased Google and Apple by now and still had enough left over to buy a 5% stake in GE.


Typical for a Trumpkin, I guess...

But ought to be pointed out that GE has been in serious trouble for some time now. It just recently got delisted from Dow, it's shedding divisions at breakneck pace, and while it's probably still got years ahead of it - it's rapidly on its way to irrelevance.

Like I said, though... typical. Republicans are experts regarding the private sector they have no experience or knowledge in or about.
   1760. dlf Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5699115)
Well, the Dow is actually down about a 1.5% overall on the year... though that's not the be all, end all of course.


The Dow is a crap index that shouldn't be mentioned in any discussion of the economy other than as a story of how a once important society bellmark can become irrelevant over time. The S&P isn't the be all either, but it is much closer to measuring the health of Wall Street. It is up a smidgen under 1% YTD. The Russell 2000 is up ~7.7%.

...still had enough left over to buy a 5% stake in GE.


One of the reasons the Dow is silly these days is that they just removed GE to add Walgreens.

And if I had a nickel for every bullshit #TrueStory the left peddles ...


Was it the parents of Korean War MIA who told you it was baloney?
   1761. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5699117)
Once again---and don't worry, there'll be more once agains forthcoming until you back down---here's what you wrote in #1634:

Every illegal should be removed, absent comprehensive immigration legislation getting enacted into law.


Since we're obviously not going to get anything close to "comprehensive immigration legislation" out of this Congress, the implications of that comment should be clear to all but the willfully blind. I'm taking that comment both literally and seriously.

Maybe you should have also highlighted "illegal" and "should?"


Okay, I've just complied with your request, which leaves you saying that in the absence of an immigration bill suitable to you and your president, ICE shouldn't stop until the last illegal immigrant is deported. Good to know that once again, just for the record.

And to be clear, we didn't get any "comprehensive immigration legislation" out of the last Democrat-controlled Congress either.

Your point being?
   1762. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5699118)
Villavicencio had filed for his green card in February and was waiting for a response when he was detained, Chica says.

He is married to Chica, a United States citizen, and they have two young daughters who were born in the United States.

An ICE spokeswoman said his application for a green card wouldn't prevent his deportation.

An immigration judge had ordered Villavicencio's deportation in 2010 after he overstayed his visa, ICE said in a statement.

He was initially ordered to leave without an official deportation order on his record but when he failed to leave the country, he was issued a final order of removal -- an order from a judge that a person can be deported and has no more appeals left.

Should this dude be removed from the country? If not, why?
based on what is in that article, which is almost certainly incomplete at best, I think probably deported. He failed to do his part in working towards legal immigrant status, and got caught. Unless this dude previously applied for a green card and was denied, he waited 8 years after being ordered to leave, to apply. Why?

However, clearly there are multiple issues at work here.

He applied for the green card in February- why has the Government not processed it yet? Four months is way too long for something like that (I know, USCIS says "it takes longer", but it shouldn't). USCIS leadership should make an example of this, figure out wtf happened to his application after he submitted it, whose desk it sat on for a month, etc, and use that information to fix the obviously broken process.

One of the first things Trump did after taking office was to issue an executive order part of which directed the USCIS to cut their green card processing timelines. They have clearly not done it. Why?

Apparently, Trump has also not followed up. Why?
   1763. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5699120)
One of the reasons the Dow is silly these days is that they just removed GE to add Walgreens.


GE has spent most of the last 20 post-Welch years digging itself a hole as a shitty conglomerate. Granted, it's got a lot to sell off - but while it tries to slim down to something resembling coherence and back to its (alleged) core business - that core business is losing share to competitors.

It's got some massively underwater acquisitions, no shortage of legal problems from many of them, and if memory serves - its most profitable area currently is air travel leasing.

Maybe it was too quick, but it's hard to see how the GE future is all that bright.
   1764. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5699121)
Have we seen Jason's papers recently. He doesn't look American to me.
   1765. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5699122)
FWIW, trivia department: "#TrueStory" refers to Jason Kander's son, whose name is True. His mother is one of those immigrants I'm sure JE would approve of, since she emigrated from the former Soviet Union.
   1766. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5699124)
Have we seen Jason's papers recently. He doesn't look American to me.

He's certainly as swarthy as any mideastern terrorist.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends are Swarthian-Americans.
   1767. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5699126)

Once more for the slow ... suggesting a government agency is dysfunctional and needs to be restructured is not the same as advocating for a North American Schengen Area.
Once more for the disingenuous: what Democrats dislike about ICE is not its "structure," whatever the heck that even means. What they dislike is the fact that it deports people.

I agree that almost nobody says that they are in favor of de jure open borders. But the current position expressed by Democrats and people here is that:

A) People who sneak across the border and claim asylum should be let into the country for months or years while their claim is being adjudicated.
B) Asylum should be available to anyone whose country sucks, even if they aren't being persecuted by their government.
C) Trying to keep people from crossing the border is bad.
D) Virtually anyone who has successfully come across the border should be allowed to stay permanently...
E) ...and should be put on track for citizenship.

The daylight between literal open borders and your (collective) position is shrinking drastically every day. If there's no legal consequence to crossing the border illegally, then that's de jure an open border.
   1768. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5699127)
Snore. You can keep digging toward China but at least a few of your genius pals have tacitly or explicitly acknowledged they don't believe in meaningful border controls. No wonder why you didn't answer the question about the pizza delivery dude who's now in custody.


We agree, this conversation is boring. Come up to speed on what "open borders" actually means ad it will get less boring.

The reason I didn't answer the question about Pizza guy, is unlike you I don't outsource my answers to other people and I don't know enough about the specific situation to opine intelligently on it. Because I am not reflexively open borders (despite your ridiculous claims) I can't reflexively answer your question.

However, in the spirit of generosity IO will gladly answer your question if you provide a definition of "open borders". Seems fair, right? Surely you have a strong definition of the term you use 50 times a day, so I am signing up for more work that you are. Deal?
   1769. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5699129)
The daylight between literal open borders and your (collective) position is shrinking drastically every day.


A fact that a libertarian would applaud.
   1770. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5699131)
agree that almost nobody says that they are in favor of de jure open borders. But the current position expressed by Democrats and people here is that:

A) People who sneak across the border and claim asylum should be let into the country for months or years while their claim is being adjudicated.
B) Asylum should be available to anyone whose country sucks, even if they aren't being persecuted by their government.
C) Trying to keep people from crossing the border is bad.
D) Virtually anyone who has successfully come across the border should be allowed to stay permanently...
E) ...and should be put on track for citizenship.


A) Almost true. Asylum seekers should have their claim for asylum held as quickly as possible, so long as their claim is fairly heard and adjudicated. While their claim is in process it is cheaper and easier to take reasonable precautions rather than jail them for the duration.

B) False. Liberals have looser definitions of asylum than you might have. However using the term "anyone" is inflammatory and so clearly false even you don't believe it.

C) False. Liberals (most anyway) acknowledge that nation states can and do have control over their own borders, basically by definition.

D) Well "Virtually" is doing a ton of work, but in any event false.

E) False. Conservatives like to pretend that irregular (like really irregular, the latest being decades ago) bipartisan grants of amnesty is exactly the same as everyone on a path to citizenship. Because they are not interested in honestly discussing the issue.
   1771. Lassus Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5699133)
C) Trying to keep people from crossing the border is bad.

Given up the attempt at honesty, it seems.


ALSO, FAIL ON MY PART - GO TO NEW THREAD
   1772. dlf Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5699135)
Maybe it was too quick, but it's hard to see how the GE future is all that bright.


You get me wrong. The issue is less the removal - although if we only list healthy and growing companies, it becomes problematic obviously - but that it was replaced with Walgreens.
   1773. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5699137)

ALSO, FAIL ON MY PART - GO TO NEW THREAD




I think you meant ... go to the new thread.
   1774. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5699142)
Moved to new thread...
   1775. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5699143)
Moved to new thread...
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