Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, June 18, 2018

OTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game

“This game is a situation of which, you’re a product of your political success, so if you have a good political year, you have a good recruiting year for this game.” So said former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., many years ago about the Congressional Baseball Game and the teams each party gets to field.

Washington is host to the 2018 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, known among fans as the midsummer classic. But Capitol Hill has staged its own midsummer classic every year for more than five decades, the Congressional Baseball Game.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:15 AM | 1775 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 3 of 18 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›
   201. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5694826)
See, that's virtue signaling. You so much need to prove how much you hate someone that you characterize the mere act of interpreting what that person is saying as unacceptable.

No, I was talking about you directly, David. But that's a nice try. Are you in a mirrored room?
   202. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5694827)
It’s not the Holocaust or a precursor to genocide, of course, but it’s pathetic to focus on hyperbolic responses instead of on a disgusting policy. And it’s worth than pathetic to blame the parents.

Ray, the separation policy is new and deliberately cruel. It was justified as a “deterrent.” As explained to you many times, because it’s new and deliberate there is no need to come up with an alternative “solution”- they could go back to the status quo ante.
   203. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5694829)
My call is that this is the most foreseeable self induced humanitarian crisis in the history of this country. Trump has all but shutdown the legal asylum process, leading thousands to try their hand the illegal way, and then throws those caught into jail and sends their kids to detention centers to live in, shall we say, less than ideal conditions.

Not to mention that Trump wants to cut legal immigration in half, and has a Chief of Staff whose favored immigration quota is "a number between zero and one". May they all fry in Hell.
   204. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5694831)
Their aim is to turn the lights of the shining city on the hill off. They are hypernationalist, racist, fascist, sub-human filth. They are a disgrace to America and all she stands for. They deserve a traitor's death.
   205. Howie Menckel Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5694835)
Amnesty International: "This is a spectacularly cruel policy, where frightened children are being ripped from their parent’s arms and taken to overflowing detention centers, which are effectively cages. This is nothing short of torture. The severe mental suffering that officials have intentionally inflicted on these families for coercive purposes, means that these acts meet the definitions of torture under both US and international law."


ok, that is pretty bizarre.
   206. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5694837)
For what it’s worth I’m guessing most people don’t have strong asylum claims and many are likely claiming asylum once caught just to try to stay without actually fearing persecution,* and I would also be surprised if most crossed outside of a port of entry because they had been turned away. There’s still no reason to separate the families! The Trump administration made a choice to separate families and because it is so cruel and unnecessary half the administration has been lying about it.

*wanted to note that many people here keep writing about “political asylum” or political persecution and it’s important to be clear you don’t have to be persecuted on the basis of your political beliefs to claim asylum.
   207. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5694838)
Because there is no longer a functioning legal asylum process. Nogales has processed one case in 2 days.


So we agree this isn’t the beginning stages of a Holocaust?

Or do we agree that these parents are monsters for voluntarily subjecting their children to such.
   208. McCoy Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5694842)
The biggest self made humanitarian crisis by us was slavery followed by segregation and Jim crow laws and all that brought followed by Japanese american internments. That this doesn't top it isn't a good thing as this will make the list.
   209. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5694844)

The Villages is America’s largest retirement community, a carefully planned, meticulously groomed dreamscape of gated subdivisions, wall-to-wall golf courses, adult-only pools and old-fashioned town squares. It’s advertised as “Florida’s friendliest hometown,” and it’s supposed to evoke a bygone era of traditional values when Americans knew their neighbors, respected their elders and followed the rules. It has the highest concentration of military veterans of any metropolitan area without a military base. It has strict regulations enforcing the uniformity of homes (no second stories, no bright colors, no modern flourishes) as well as the people living in them (no families with children, except to visit). And it is Trump country, a reliably Republican, vocally patriotic, almost entirely white enclave that gave the president nearly 70 percent of the vote.

Older voters are America’s most reliable voters, which is why baby-boomer boomtowns like The Villages represent the most significant threat to a potential Democratic wave in Florida in 2018—and the most significant source of Republican optimism for many years to come. Because while the Villages may look like the past, with its retro architecture and gray-haired demographics, it sells like the future. This master-planned paradise an hour northwest of Disney World has been the fastest-growing metro area in the United States in four of the past five years. And as the baby boom generation continues to retire, The Villages is continuing to expand into nearby cattle pastures, luring more pensioners to this fantasyland in the sunshine, gradually swinging America’s largest swing state to the right.

...

It’s not a coincidence that The Villages supports the nation’s largest American Legion post—or that signs in its bar declare: “NO NFL GAMES ON POST TELEVISIONS.” Republicans outnumber Democrats by more than 2:1 here, and in interviews, they generally expressed support for Trump’s tax cuts, as well as his hands-off approach to Medicare and Social Security. That has helped blunt the perennial Democratic pitch to seniors: Choose us, because Republicans are coming for your checks. But what really attracted them to Trump were issues that had little to do with their pocketbooks or their daily lives—like his opposition to sanctuary cities, or his insistent rhetoric about strength, or his attacks on Muslims, MS-13 and protests by black athletes. They feel like Trump is on their side in a cultural war against cop-haters, their perception of scheming foreigners, global warming alarmists, and other politically correct avatars of disorder and decline; they thought President Barack Obama was on the other side, standing with transgender activists, welfare freeloaders and Islamic terrorists. And when Trump vows to make America great again, they sense that he means more like The Villages.

“They want an America that’s a little more like it was when they were growing up, and that’s what Trump is offering,” says Daniel Webster, the area’s conservative Republican congressman. Dennis Baxley, the area’s equally conservative Republican state senator, points out that The Villages offers that, too, with safe streets, light traffic, artificial lakes that provide a real sense of serenity, and hundreds of support groups for every imaginable malady or hardship. It’s a throwback to when they were children in 1950s America, without actual children.


Generation Pickleball: Welcome to Florida’s Political Tomorrowland

My parents would love it!
   210. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5694848)
For what it’s worth I’m guessing most people don’t have strong asylum claims and many are likely claiming asylum once caught just to try to stay without actually fearing persecution,* and I would also be surprised if most crossed outside of a port of entry because they had been turned away. There’s still no reason to separate the families!

One more time - they aren't allowed to detain the minor children for more than 20 days, so they can't keep the kids with the illegal border crossers. Those complaining really want the illegal border crossers to just be turned loose, a foolish policy.
   211. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5694852)
My dad bought a place in the Villages, lived there for about 2 years, maybe less, and then left. He hated it.
   212. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5694853)
Is that the place with all the geriatric swingers?
   213. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5694856)
However, it probably ought to be noted....

Hitler assumed the chancellorship in January 1933. The Night of the Long Knives occurred in July 1934. The Nuremberg Laws were not introduced until September 1935.

If you want to make the case that time and events move quicker nowadays, go ahead and make that case. Doesn't change the fact that by this point in the Hitler regime - he was still Making Germany Great Again...

One might think that a guy who fled the country, while delivering repeated, haughty, condescending lectures on the the supposed parallels of post-election America & Nazi Germany, only to come crawling back barely a year later, might stop with the lectures about those imagined Nazi parallels. Not Zonk.
   214. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5694858)
Yes
   215. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5694860)
One might think that a guy who fled the country, while delivering repeated, haughty, condescending lectures on the the supposed parallels of post-election America & Nazi Germany, only to come crawling back barely a year later, might stop with the lectures about those imagined Nazi parallels. Not Zonk.


"We're not as bad as the Nazis" is a hell of a slogan.
   216. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5694862)
YC they chose to prosecute all undocumented entrants and not to make an exception to that policy for adults traveling with children. There’s no reason to do that and that’s the only reason the 20 days is relevant. You know that previous administrations didn’t have a family separation policy and the Trump administration does and you’re acting as if they were forced to do it.
   217. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5694865)
YC they chose to prosecute all undocumented entrants and not to make an exception to that policy for adults traveling with children.

They aren't "traveling with children", they are attempting to illegally cross the border outside of the legal checkpoints. No country allows that.
   218. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5694867)
Everyman Ray is back to shout ‘where’s your solution’ to anyone who dares engage with him on this topic, so let’s look to KT from last night:

KT_So_It_Goes:
I don’t owe you a good faith discussion about border control solutions because Donald Trump and shaved man-sloth Stephen Miller decided to start kidnapping children - if you can’t call it wrong without demanding a reciprocal answer you’re as morally twisted as they are

“well what’s YOUR solution”

“stop holding children as political hostages right ####### now”

“well that’s not very constructive”

understand this: attempting to frame a crime against humanity as a stepping stone to your preferred policy arrangements makes you an accomplice in the crime, witting or unwitting

I’ll have your good faith immigration discussion once the hostage children are reunited safely with their parents

until then you’re on your own
   219. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5694869)
YC you aren’t being responsive. They don’t need to be prosecuted or separated and you know that. Why are you implying that this wasn’t a deliberate policy choice?
   220. DavidFoss Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5694870)
No country allows that.

If the Trump family separation policy is normal, then why is the UN weighing in against it?
   221. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5694871)
They aren't "traveling with children", they are attempting to illegally cross the border outside of the legal checkpoints. No country allows that.


No other country takes children hostage as a deterrent or as a means to pass preferred legislation.
   222. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5694879)
YC you aren’t being responsive. They don’t need to be prosecuted or separated and you know that. Why are you implying that this wasn’t a deliberate policy choice?

Your preferred policy is to not prosecute those illegally crossing the border. I fail to see why that is the preferred policy when the law criminalizes that action. If those families were being summarily deported, you'd complain about that, too.
   223. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5694882)
Your preferred policy is to not prosecute those illegally crossing the border. I fail to see why that is the preferred policy when the law criminalizes that action. If those families were being summarily deported, you'd complain about that, too.


I see you prefer to not address the fact that the legal asylum process has been all but shut down by Trump, exacerbating the problem of illegal crossings. It's not surprising, because it's indefensible.
   224. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5694885)
"We're not as bad as the Nazis" is a hell of a slogan.

Or as a backup, "We're no worse than the Hungarians or the Italians".
   225. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5694888)
They don’t need to be prosecuted at all to be deported. The separation policy is completely unnecessary and, again, a deliberate choice by the Trump administration. You are ignorant or lying about why it exists.
   226. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:29 PM (#5694892)
The word holocaust has been used 15 unique times in this thread.

11 by Ray
2 by Dersh
2 by everyone else(both times obviously responding to Ray's claims)
   227. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5694894)
One might think that a guy who fled the country, while delivering repeated, haughty, condescending lectures on the the supposed parallels of post-election America & Nazi Germany, only to come crawling back barely a year later, might stop with the lectures about those imagined Nazi parallels. Not Zonk.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I got a healthy raise to do a job that apparently, my employer couldn't find a non-expat to do.

If it bothers you that I've described you accurately as about 20 years and 4000 miles from being somewhere between a Mitläufer and Minderbelastete, that's your problem.
   228. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5694895)
They don’t need to be prosecuted at all to be deported. The separation policy is completely unnecessary and, again, a deliberate choice by the Trump administration. You are ignorant or lying about why it exis

They are resisting being adjudicated and deported by raising mostly spurious political asylum claims. If folks want to prohibit illegal border crossers from raising political asylum claims, I suggest you write your Congressman or Congresswoman.
   229. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5694899)
They are resisting being adjudicated and deported by raising mostly spurious political asylum claims.

We know this because many people are saying this. Only the best people.
   230. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5694901)
In equally stupid, but less horrific news -

India has announced retaliatory tariffs on the US while the Trump administration has announced that if China doesn't back down its retaliatory tariffs, they're going to move forward with another 200B.

This is Trump being bipartisan: He's apparently added Bill Maher to Executive Time.
   231. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5694902)
Clearly Ray and Clapper are in full on panic mode. It is honestly amusing as heck to watch. Seriously go back and read their posts. Man, when even they realize what an utter political train wreck the whole situation is and start bailing as furiously as they are you know times are bad.

I doubt this mess lasts another week before Trump caves. I mean I could easily be wrong, lord knows Trump is a jackass who could hunker down, but I think he is a coward and bully and will fold. He will declare some lame excuse and then he will fold.

I hope he does anyway because it is a horrific policy. The silver lining is that it is even worse politics and is poisoning Trump's entire immigration agenda. Soon whenever anyone thinks of Trump and border they will see the screaming kids ripped away from their parents.
   232. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:41 PM (#5694903)
YC you aren’t being responsive.

Give him some credit, he's being as responsive as Ray is when people directly address the issues he's raised - he ignores them. That's a response.
   233. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5694905)
In equally stupid, but less horrific news -


Well in aggregate a trade war will likely cause much more human misery (Again in aggregate, assuming such things can be aggregated). It will be all spread out and not come with a super simple narrative and handy visuals, but still.

Healthy economies matter and this sort of trade war has the possibility of harming millions of people's livelihoods worldwide.

Of course it is hard to compare the misery of a select few to economic harm done to millions in any meaningful way, so let's just say both are horrific and stupid.
   234. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5694907)
I see you prefer to not address the fact that the legal asylum process has been all but shut down by Trump, exacerbating the problem of illegal crossings. It's not surprising, because it's indefensible.

I see you are, once again, making stuff up. The latest stats I found indicate that in the first half of FY 2018, there were 6,302 Asylum Grants, well ahead of the pace for any year going back to FY 2009. That same chart indicates that the Grant Rate was 22.08%, higher than any year since FY 2014. It's far more accurate to say that there has been a huge increase in phony asylum claims, resulting in some delays, and causing the usual voices to say we should just let folks in without regard to the merits of their claim.
   235. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5694915)
It's far more accurate to say that there has been a huge increase in phony asylum claims


What do you consider a phony asylum claim? Are people fleeing narco terrorists making phony claims because narco terrorists not official government agents? It's pretty rich for one to say fleeing narco terrorists is a phony claim when we created and empower the narco terrorists
   236. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5694917)
My dad bought a place in the Villages, lived there for about 2 years, maybe less, and then left. He hated it.

My dad rented a place down there as a test drive, and lasted three months. It sounds like one of those Japanese beetle traps.
   237. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5694920)
I have been making a lot of trips to Gainesville lately, and every time I pass The Villages exit on I-75, a shiver runs down my spine.
   238. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5694921)
It's far more accurate to say that there has been a huge increase in phony asylum claims

What do you consider a phony asylum claim? Are people fleeing narco terrorists making phony claims because narco terrorists not official government agents?

That does seem to be the latest party line, to be spouted until a better one comes along.
   239. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5694925)
ok, that is pretty bizarre.


Ever watched any of the videos of the experiments with chimps when they take the infants from the mother and replace them with an "iron mom"?
It's disgusting, hard to watch even as non-humans and just monkeys.

You are torturing infants by taking them from their mothers when they are breast feeding and that young. If you support this policy for ANY reason you are a monster. There is no "deterrent" great enough in the world to justify this.

The ends NOT DO justify the means. I am personally sickened. I am seriously considering going back into politics to work against Trump should he get elected again. You can say I'm virtue signalling all you want. I was talking with my mom today and asking her how it felt in the late 60s. She said it felt a lot like this and that you couldn't really believe some of what was going on and how cruel some people are.
   240. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5694926)
You’re acknowledging that families with meritorious claims are being separated and you support the policy anyway. You know that families don’t have to be prosecuted or separated to be deported. And you know that the separation policy was a deliberate choice by the Trump administration. But you persist in pretending their hands are tied or blaming the parents. It’s disgusting.
   241. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5694927)
I am personally sickened.


Anyone who is not is beneath contempt.

Apparently 58% of Republicans support this policy. Maybe Hillary underestimated.
   242. zenbitz Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5694929)
Those complaining really want the illegal border crossers to just be turned loose, a foolish policy.


Better to be a fool than a villain.
   243. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5694930)
Anyone who is not is beneath contempt.


If our eyes weren't open before to all the MS-13 talk and "othering" of immigrants, it should be now. Someone said up thread that Trump is "too inept" to be a proper facist -- well if this is ineptitude I'd hate to see more. Again, I harken back to the "shock and awe" style "muslim ban" and how similar this feels, where legal resident were detained to try and score political points with the base -- families torn apart? Who cares.

There's a special place in hell for Stephen Miller. This has his hands all over it.

Apparently 58% of Republicans support this policy. Maybe Hillary underestimated.


I saw elsewhere, not sure it's accurate, but it sounds plausible, that 92% of white males without a college degree support the policy. These are your "edgelords" shooting up schools, making Pepe Memes and marching in Charlottsville. Deplorables, every ####### single one of them. Hillary was right.
   244. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5694931)
I was talking with my mom today and asking her how it felt in the late 60s. She said it felt a lot like this and that you couldn't really believe some of what was going on and how cruel some people are.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The closest parallel to Trump in the last 60 years of American history was George Wallace. Close your eyes at a Trump rally and you could swear you were back at a Wallace rally in Birmingham or Milwaukee. If there's any discernible difference between Trump and Wallace, other than their accents and Trump's personal corruption, I'd sure like to know what it is. This is what today's Republican party has become, with no apparent sign of regret.
   245. Shredder Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:28 PM (#5694932)
What do you consider a phony asylum claim? Are people fleeing narco terrorists making phony claims because narco terrorists not official government agents? It's pretty rich for one to say fleeing narco terrorists is a phony claim when we created and empower the narco terrorists
Clapper is a slimy little weasel with the manhood of a immature newt who "earned" his citizenship by nothing more than a quirk of geography, yet fancies himself an authority on the tribulations of people who are escaping situations the likes of which he wouldn't last 45 seconds without needing a third diaper. What a piece of human excrement he is.
   246. Count Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5694933)
Another good overview of the policy and lies / talking points here.
   247. zenbitz Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:30 PM (#5694934)
No country allows that.


You are correct, I would prefer we just let them in. The next best alternative would be to actually deal with their claims in a humane and efficient manner. In less than 20 days, perhaps. Or propose legislation that extends the process - put the families together in half-way houses until they can be processed. Even just deporting them without a trial would be better.
   248. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5694935)
I was talking with my mom today and asking her how it felt in the late 60s. She said it felt a lot like this and that you couldn't really believe some of what was going on and how cruel some people are.


This photograph by John Moore will be the Buddhist monk setting himself afire for our time.
   249. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5694936)
Even just deporting them without a trial would be better.


Just ####### round them up, keeping the families together as best as humanly possible, and send their asses back to Mexico or wherever on the US' dime. This is a rich ####### country this is ash tray money, certainly compared to a wall or some ####. There's no ####### reason to prosecute any illegal immigrant until they have committed more than just the crime of walking over the border.
   250. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5694937)
Clapper is a slimy little weasel with the manhood of a immature newt who "earned" his citizenship by nothing more than a quirk of geography, yet fancies himself an authority on the tribulations of people who are escaping situations the like of which he wouldn't last 45 seconds without needing a third diaper. What a piece of human excrement he is.


I couldn't agree more.
   251. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:37 PM (#5694938)
Just ####### round them up, keeping the families together as best as humanly possible, and send their asses back to Mexico or wherever on the US' dime. This is a rich ####### country this is ash tray money, certainly compared to a wall or some ####. There's no ####### reason to prosecute any illegal immigrant until they have committed more than just the crime of walking over the border.


It would cost less than Trump's trips to Florida.

edit:

It would cost less than what Trump is making on his trips to Florida.
   252. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:47 PM (#5694941)
It would cost less than Trump's trips to Florida.


Has a single mainstream, elected Democrat advocated for an open border? This position of "the Dems want a completely open border" is more made up deplorable lore. This is the sort of big lie that leads to a policy like this having the support it does among a certain gullible, uneducated, ill informed segment of the populace.

here's a little more on the psychology of the stupids.
   253. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 11:53 PM (#5694943)
This is the sort of big lie that leads to a policy like this having the support it does among a certain gullible, uneducated, ill informed segment of the populace.


I'm grateful that my parents have passed. My dad was not ill educated. He was a brilliant engineer. He was the smartest man I knew. But I have no doubt he would be a huge Trump supporter today. And I would have hated to have that conversation with him.
   254. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5694944)
It’s not the Holocaust or a precursor to genocide, of course, but it’s pathetic to focus on hyperbolic responses instead of on a disgusting policy. And it’s worth than pathetic to blame the parents.


No blaming of the parents came from me. To the contrary I said that the parents are making the quite rational decision to trade the risk for the potential reward of getting into the country.

(In case you couldn't follow, the point of my "the parents are horrible for injecting their kids into the beginning stages of a Holocaust" exercise was to show that this is NOT a Holocaust and thus the parents are NOT horrible people.)

Ray, the separation policy is new and deliberately cruel. It was justified as a “deterrent.” As explained to you many times, because it’s new and deliberate there is no need to come up with an alternative “solution”- they could go back to the status quo ante.


The problem is that neither Democrats nor Republicans want to solve this.

BM has been saying it for days. Democrats in Congress have found a winning campaign issue: children in cages. Solving that problem dissipates their winning campaign issue.

Republicans in Congress don't have incentive to ameliorate the situation because they think that doing so will lead to increased illegal immigration.

Thus we have horrible people on both sides. Children in cages is terrible, and neither side has incentive to fix it. So here we are.
   255. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5694946)
I'm grateful that my parents have passed. My dad was not ill educated. He was a brilliant engineer. He was the smartest man I knew. But I have no doubt he would be a huge Trump supporter today. And I would have hated to have that conversation with him.


There's a lot of posters on /theDonald (white, male of course) that are educated, especially in IT, that worship the guy. Network engineer seems a popular job there. Of course, a lot of these twentysomethings got into IT because of gaming and a general interest in computers, which if I'm being honest, with myself included, is usually a sign of lagging social ability, including empathy.

But these people, unlike myself, were not exposed to a diverse student body on campus and liberal arts. They are very narrowly focused in their world of IT but otherwise are pretty much the definition of "white bread". I have no real point or argument in this post, it's just an anecdote I've found that seems interesting. Engineer types are smart sure, but politically they can be painfully naive and ignorant. And they think, A LOT like Ray, that they are now experts because they picked the winning horse.

It's not a good thing. And now they get to circle jerk online and get even more up in their own heads. Groupthink squared thanks to the Web.

This thread has its trolls and nastiness but I think the mere act of being here says good things about our community and our own ability to interact with people that don't think like us, right and left alike.
   256. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5694947)
The problem is that neither Democrats nor Republicans want to solve this.

BM has been saying it for days. Democrats in Congress have found a winning campaign issue: children in cages. Solving that problem dissipates their winning campaign issue.

Republicans in Congress don't have incentive to ameliorate the situation because they think that doing so will lead to increased illegal immigration.

Thus we have horrible people on both sides. Children in cages is terrible, but neither side has incentive to fix it. So here we are.


Dianne Feinstein introduced a standalone bill to address this issue over a month ago. It is being blocked from being considered by Republican leadership in the Senate, and no similar bill has been allowed to reach the floor of the House, by again, Republican leadership.

I guess you're so eager to blame Democrats that you can't be bothered to do a little research.
   257. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:05 AM (#5694948)
Thus we have horrible people on both sides.


Hey dude, when Sarah resigns you can go to whitehouse.gov and apply.

And also, Clapper, how obvious is it that Sarah is on her way out after refusing to do the briefing today on her own? Trump ain't gonna like that. Trump's lies, the constant need to go up there with a straight face and say 2+2=5, have already broken Spicy and Sarah, maybe Ray will be next.

I guess you're so eager to blame Democrats that you can't be bothered to do a little research.


Ray is exactly the sort of insulated bubble technical white male I was talking about above in 255. Honestly, don't even bother. His posts don't deserve a serious rebuttal as he himself has a dunning-kruger'esqe hole in his intellect when it comes to how American Politics works.
   258. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:09 AM (#5694949)
The word holocaust has been used 15 unique times in this thread.

11 by Ray
2 by Dersh
2 by everyone else(both times obviously responding to Ray's claims)


Stupid or Liar?

To steal from David: English ain't pattern matching.

The subject of the Nazis, Nazi Germany, Hitler, concentration camps, torture, gasing people, etc. has come up plenty of times in this thread.
   259. Count Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5694950)
The way to solve the problem of separating families is for the Trump administration to stop doing it. Thus both sides are at fault.
   260. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:15 AM (#5694951)
I am personally sickened.

Anyone who is not is beneath contempt.


Nobody wants children in cages. Not a single person anywhere that I've read or seen here or elsewhere including Trump wants that. Everyone is on the same side. They simply disagree on what to do about it.
   261. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5694952)
The way to solve the problem of separating families is for the Trump administration to stop doing it. Thus both sides are at fault.


The Executive Branch executes the laws. Thus, the minority party in Congress is at fault.

Nobody wants children in cages. Not a single person anywhere that I've read or seen here or elsewhere including Trump wants that. Everyone is on the same side. They simply disagree on what to do about it.


No, you feckless ####, TRUMP DOES WANT CHILDREN IN CAGES. He probably took the idea from Duterte's war on drugs. With these madmen, the ends always justify the means. I'm telling you tho, your spin is impressive in its ability to completely ignore the crux of the issue and provide a talking point for the base. Apply for that job.
   262. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5694953)
The subject of the Nazis, Nazi Germany, Hitler, concentration camps, torture, gasing people, etc. has come up plenty of times in this thread.


Right. For example, I stated that "If you wait until they start gassing the children to complain, it's too late."

Now, did I mean that I think that Trump will start gassing children? No,but I cannot 100% sure. But what I did mean is that one cannot sure what the end game is, and it's never too early to call out a regime that acts evil, even if the end game is not as evil as possible.

There's nothing wrong or harmful with dropping the hammer on the Trump regime even if they turn out to be not as evil as the Nazis. Better safe then sorry. Too bad that gives ray a sad.
   263. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM (#5694954)
Nobody wants children in cages. Not a single person anywhere that I've read or seen here or elsewhere including Trump wants that. Everyone is on the same side. They simply disagree on what to do about it.


You are a liar, and this is a lie.
   264. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:23 AM (#5694955)
Everyone is on the same side.


Actually , no. One side, the vast majority of Americans BTW, say stop doing it.
   265. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:24 AM (#5694957)
But these people, unlike myself, were not exposed to a diverse student body on campus and liberal arts.

Over the last ten years my work has put me in a lot of conversations with Chinese people. It's both sad and fascinating to hear their attitudes towards the US. I do wonder how the Chinese (both people and government) will deal with us in 50 years, when they're clearly the stronger nation state, if the GOP, clearly the stronger political faction in the US, continues on its bender of white nationalism. I don't think it will be pretty.
   266. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:30 AM (#5694958)
if the GOP, clearly the stronger political faction in the US, continues on its bender of white nationalism.


That's what pains me the most. The Trump GOP clearly wants to make America irrelevant. Not consciously of course, but that will be the inevitable result.
   267. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:30 AM (#5694959)
Stupid or Liar?


Usually just the latter, but Trump has you putting a full dose of the former on display over the last couple years.
   268. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:32 AM (#5694960)
Nobody wants children in cages. Not a single person anywhere that I've read or seen here or elsewhere including Trump wants that. Everyone is on the same side. They simply disagree on what to do about it.

Yes, you and yours want to deal with it, by continuing to put children in cages.
   269. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 19, 2018 at 01:03 AM (#5694962)
This smear was widely-circulated on Twitter and posted in the previous OTP thread:
1303. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 06:12 AM

ICE agent in PR photo has Iron Cross tattoo.

No, he doesn't. The photo was of a veteran, a wheelchair-bound double amputee, who has a tattoo resembling the Maltese Cross on his elbow, only a small part of which was visible in the photo linked in #1303. The tattoo is actually Titan 2, the symbol of his platoon in Afghanistan. Some apologies are in order.
   270. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 19, 2018 at 01:07 AM (#5694964)
Over the last ten years my work has put me in a lot of conversations with Chinese people. It's both sad and fascinating to hear their attitudes towards the US. I do wonder how the Chinese (both people and government) will deal with us in 50 years, when they're clearly the stronger nation state, if the GOP, clearly the stronger political faction in the US, continues on its bender of white nationalism. I don't think it will be pretty.


We're ######. The Chinese, who I have no love at all towards, especially as a Seattlite facing the pressure of all their new money on my cost of living, have managed to put in place a competent (if utterly authoritarian) government.

We have Trump.

No, he doesn't. The photo was of a veteran, a wheelchair-bound double amputee, who had a tattoo resembling the Maltese Cross on his elbow, only a small part of which was visible in the photo linked in #1303. The tattoo is actually Titan 2, the symbol of his platoon in Afghanistan. Some apologies are in order.


Yea, that's what deserves an apology. FFS you're like the Japanese guys in the bunker that still think the war is going on. Get a sense of god damn perspective. You don't have to whatabout every god damn plank of the GOP.

You got your ####### majority on SCOTUS just STFU about some mislabeling of a tattoo. Oh, and you want to defend that POS joker heard today talking about all the crying babies need a "composer" at the hell camps? You ####### enabler POS.
   271. Howie Menckel Posted: June 19, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5694966)
For example, I stated that "If you wait until they start gassing the children to complain, it's too late."

Now, did I mean that I think that Trump will start gassing children? No,but I cannot 100% sure.

really? I would love to respectfully help walk back some of the rhetoric - while respecting the bulk of the major concerns. I don't even know if that can happen anymore in 2018.
   272. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 05:28 AM (#5694972)
The problem is that neither Democrats nor Republicans want to solve this.

BM has been saying it for days


The Circle of Infallibility has expanded beyond the cartoonist and the 80 year-old celebrity lawyer. Any port in a storm.
   273. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 05:31 AM (#5694973)
I am personally sickened.

Anyone who is not is beneath contempt.


I understand the most devoted followers of Jesus strongly approve. Maybe the devil has warped your mind. Are you even willing to consider that you may have become a pawn of Satan in the furtherance of his war on godly morality? Will you pray on this?
   274. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 05:34 AM (#5694974)
Has a single mainstream, elected Democrat advocated for an open border? This position of "the Dems want a completely open border" is more made up deplorable lore.


That’s really more of a libertarian position isn’t it? If the Democratic Party was adopting libertarian positions I’m sure we would have heard about it.
   275. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 06:04 AM (#5694975)
The problem is that neither Democrats nor Republicans want to solve this.

BM has been saying it for days. Democrats in Congress have found a winning campaign issue: children in cages. Solving that problem dissipates their winning campaign issue.


Our Little Lord is Lord of the Lies

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said on Monday that he will back legislation to prevent the separation of immigrant families along the border, solidifying Democratic support for the bill.

Manchin's decision means all 49 members of the Democratic caucus, which includes independent Sens. Bernie Sanders (Vt.) and Angus King (Maine), are signing on to the legislation...The Feinstein bill, however, faces an unlikely, uphill climb in a GOP-controlled Congress, despite growing backlash over the Trump administration's policies that are resulting in the separation of immigrant families at the border.

No Republican senator has said they will support Feinstein's bill, which would need 60 votes to clear the Senate.


Really though, how could a Republican support a bill championed by the political party that has been so mean and said so many uncouth things about them? It’s really the fault of you hippies that you’ve made your legislation so politically toxic to Real Americans.
   276. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 06:37 AM (#5694977)
No, he doesn't. The photo was of a veteran, a wheelchair-bound double amputee, who has a tattoo resembling the Maltese Cross on his elbow, only a small part of which was visible in the photo linked in #1303. The tattoo is actually Titan 2, the symbol of his platoon in Afghanistan


Maltese Cross

Iron Cross

Kriss Kross

Having educated your wack-ass no-jumping self on all three, which one do you see here?

Some apologies are in order.


Sure but I’m not holding my breath, rubes aren’t known for their perspicacity. Don’t reply just yet, maybe there will be another PR Tweet, don’t get stuck using unapproved spin.
   277. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 06:51 AM (#5694978)
“Well, this is a real exaggeration of course," Sessions said. "In Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country."
   278. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:03 AM (#5694979)
That’s really more of a libertarian position isn’t it? If the Democratic Party was adopting libertarian positions I’m sure we would have heard about it.

It is the position of genuine libertarians. But those make up a vanishingly small number of self-proclaimed libertarians. Probably low single digits percentage wise. The rest of them - like our resident Libertarian-in-name-only full-time Trump apologist - have an overriding philosophy of "but muh taxes."

Which is why RDP is fully on board with ripping infants away from their mother's breast, and tossing them in cages. Putting up no more than token condemnation, before throwing up his hands proclaiming "but what can you do," while ignoring everyone who repeatedly responds with things that should be done.

He thinks illegal immigrants and asylum seekers are a net drain on his taxes. (That has become an article of faith, and it no longer actually matters whether or not this is in fact the case, similar to the way climate change had to have been a hoax, because it might lead to environmental taxes on things like gas and energy.) And thus the end justifies the means. If that means children crying in cages for their parents, then so be it.
   279. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:25 AM (#5694981)
“Well, this is a real exaggeration of course," Sessions said. "In Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country."


There are no serious parallels between this and Nazi Germany, and persuasion for the cause is lost with these silly hyperboles.
   280. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:38 AM (#5694982)
And nice to see Andy continuing with his rhetoric and imagery of, and yearning for, apocalyptic political violence.
   281. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5694983)
ok, that is pretty bizarre.


Every now and then, you drop the veil.
   282. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:46 AM (#5694985)
The problem is that neither Democrats nor Republicans want to solve this.

BM has been saying it for days. Democrats in Congress have found a winning campaign issue: children in cages. Solving that problem dissipates their winning campaign issue.

Republicans in Congress don't have incentive to ameliorate the situation because they think that doing so will lead to increased illegal immigration.

Thus we have horrible people on both sides. Children in cages is terrible, but neither side has incentive to fix it. So here we are.


As stated up thread this is - of course - a lie. A lie of omission, but still a lie. I have consistently said three things.

1) The policy is horrific and should stop.
2) The way to stop is ... stop. Like was being done before.
3) Until it stops this issue is horrifically bad for the GOP in every possible way - though it does appeal to the racist and xenophobic base of the GOP.

Only someone who is a massive and habitual liar would take that and pretend what I have been "suggesting for days" is that all Democrats care about is the third point. I have said that Democrats are in a position of negotiating power, because they are. Democrats shouldn't give GOP President Trump extra goodies to stop from harming those families and at the same time harming the GOP.

But like I hinted at before when this kind of desperation lie comes to the fore it is clear even the usual suspect s realize this is a true dumpster fire. So they do what they always do, blame Democrats.
   283. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:51 AM (#5694986)
You are a liar, and this is a lie.


I would have went with "This is a lie, and you are a liar".

Ray is exactly the sort of insulated bubble technical white male I was talking about above in 255. Honestly, don't even bother. His posts don't deserve a serious rebuttal as he himself has a dunning-kruger'esqe hole in his intellect when it comes to how American Politics works.


Ray is an imbecile.
   284. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5694987)
The Chinese, who I have no love at all towards, especially as a Seattlite facing the pressure of all their new money on my cost of living, have managed to put in place a competent (if utterly authoritarian) government.


China has some very large issues, even beyond its authoritarianism. Corruptions, for example, is off the charts bad in many provinces for example. You are not close enough to see the warts though.

The United States will be fine for the foreseeable future. We are the most powerful nation in the world (still) and at worst will be in the top three likely for the lifetime of anyone posting here. Trump is bad, really really bad. But let's not get all hysterical, ok?
   285. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5694989)
There are no serious parallels between this and Nazi Germany, and persuasion for the cause is lost with these silly hyperboles.

Not sure who you're responding to here. I'm mocking Sessions for this unpleasant and blackly hilarious response.
   286. GordonShumway Posted: June 19, 2018 at 08:23 AM (#5694991)
China has some very large issues, even beyond its authoritarianism. Corruptions, for example, is off the charts bad in many provinces for example. You are not close enough to see the warts though.

The United States will be fine for the foreseeable future. We are the most powerful nation in the world (still) and at worst will be in the top three likely for the lifetime of anyone posting here. Trump is bad, really really bad. But let's not get all hysterical, ok?


IMHO, the biggest issue with China in the next generation will be their demographic problem. The population there is getting very old, very fast.
   287. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 08:30 AM (#5694994)
Not sure who you're responding to here. I'm mocking Sessions for this unpleasant and blackly hilarious response.


I have pretty much always mocked the whole Hitler/Nazi comparisons, but even I have to admit Trump really does seem to aspire to be ClownHitler. I still think it a terrible analogy, because the Troll brigade uses it to try to reduce everything down to either full on Nazi or not so bad (and it is the deranged Modern Liberals fault), but man the parallels keep piling up.

I have hopes the upcoming elections will put a sudden and permanent stop to it.
   288. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5695006)
I have hopes the upcoming elections will put a sudden and permanent stop to it.


The problem with elections is that Democrats have to win them with both hands tied behind their backs because of the way the district maps are drawn. Even when Democrats have an advantage, Republicans just cheat. With war being what it is nowadays, it is hard to imagine a true civil war; but I'm starting to agree more with Sam...that nothing is going to change without bloodshed.
   289. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:08 AM (#5695010)
I have hopes the upcoming elections will put a sudden and permanent stop to it.


They're misplaced. Open borders is a minority position within the electorate at large. Simple analytical reality. You could probably say the same about every serious democracy in the world.

And every time you and yours say, "Well, now Trump has finally stepped in it so bad people will rebel against him," you've been wrong. You are this time, too. Again, simple analytical reality. There's an unfortunate aspect to that, because I think what's happening is atrocious, but the kind of rhetoric and aims you and yours have simply doesn't persuade anyone not already persuaded. If you asked the question, "Should any citizen of any country in the world where there's a lot of domestic violence be allowed to immigrate to the United States permanently," you'd get at least 60% saying "No," and probably more like 80 or 85%.

   290. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:10 AM (#5695011)
I give you the Trump Maladministration....

Sessions officially announced the zero-tolerance policy in early May, but the issue came to a head two days later in a Cabinet meeting at which Trump blew up at Nielsen. Convinced by whispers from Miller and his allies that Nielsen, a veteran of the George W. Bush administration, is oatmeal-mushy on immigration, much like the former president, Trump berated the DHS secretary, pushing her to the brink of resignation. Several of those present at the meeting said it was the most uncomfortable scene they have witnessed in their professional lives.

A former administration official explained the president’s view: “Being a Bushie is worse than being a Democrat.” Tension with the Bush family has flared in recent days as both former Florida governor Jeb Bush — a Trump antagonist in the 2016 primaries — and former first lady Laura Bush emerged to publicly rebuke Trump’s policy of separating parents from their kids.

Knowing Nielsen is in a vulnerable position, and that her handling of the border crisis could give the president a reason to scapegoat and fire her, her detractors have tried to tar her with a connection to one of the Bush administration’s greatest failures: Hurricane Katrina.

* * *

But Kelly’s status in the White House has changed in recent months, and he and the president are now seen as barely tolerating one another. According to four people close to Kelly, the former Marine general has largely yielded his role as the enforcer in the West Wing as his relationship with Trump has soured. While Kelly himself once believed he stood between Trump and chaos, he has told at least one person close to him that he may as well let the president do what he wants, even if it leads to impeachment — at least this chapter of American history would come to a close.

In recent months, his Secret Service detail has often been spotted standing outside the gym in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in the middle of the day — and White House officials who pass it on the way to meetings view his late morning workouts as an indication of him having thrown in the towel on trying to have any control inside the West Wing.


So there ya have it...

The lady doing the Broadway audition for Cruella the Musical! is doing it to curry favor with the boss - and she's letting herself be set up by folks who figure if it doesn't work, she can just be canned.

Meanwhile, the administration's tits on a boar is telling friends to just end this madness.

Since Clown Hitler is back in fashion, I would like to remind people that this is precisely how the real Hitler government operated. Goering hated Himmler. Goebbels was jealous of Himmler and hated Goering. Everybody hated Borman. And they were all constantly trying to set each other up, curry favor, and get the others deposed... and standing astride of it all, Hitler earnestly believed this was the greatest of management tactics - chaos and underlings constantly fighting with each other.

   291. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5695012)
Open borders is a minority position within the electorate at large.


So is locking kids in cages... but here we are.

It would seem minority positions can sometimes become policy.
   292. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5695015)
Since Clown Hitler is back in fashion, I would like to remind people that this is precisely how the real Hitler government operated.


No, it's not -- and you sound unhinged saying so. Among a number of obvious things, the Enabling Act had long since been passed in Nazi Germany at this equivalent time. Four months or so after Hitler took power, the Nazi government had irredeemably and completely deviated from the fundamental structure of the current US government.

I happened to be at a graduation ceremony yesterday for a middle school in the ground zero epicenter of American modern liberalism and anti-Trumpism. Early on, the graduates, faculty, and collected observers -- as consciously outlined in the itinerary -- engaged in full-throated renditions of the Pledge of Allegiance and Star Spangled Banner. Please don't embarrass yourself by claiming that the assembled were pledging and anthem singing to and in honor of a country that resembles in any way, shape, or form Hitler's Germany. You sound like an abject lunatic.
   293. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5695016)
The problem with elections is that Democrats have to win them with both hands tied behind their backs because of the way the district maps are drawn. Even when Democrats have an advantage, Republicans just cheat. With war being what it is nowadays, it is hard to imagine a true civil war; but I'm starting to agree more with Sam...that nothing is going to change without bloodshed.


You have to go all the way back to 2010 to remember when the Democrats had the House, Senate, and White House. It was untold generations ago I guess.

Yes, the way the boundaries are drawn favors Republicans. Yes they won the White House while still losing the popular vote. Last I checked both Democratic Senators and House members represented more people than their Republican counterparts. I am not claiming it is fair, but politics ain't fair, and neither is life.

That doesn't mean Democrat can't win. Democrats will (ideally) win huge numbers of down ballot races in the run up to the new redistricting post census and then we can let the Republicans whine about how unfair everything is for a while.

The reason Democrats have such a horrific Senate map is that Democrats won six years ago in tough places and in tough races. That is a good thing, because it shows Democrats can win.

Sam is generally smart and occasionally has the odd nugget of sense, but on this issue he is nuts. If you don't like what is happening politically then get more involved, vote, donate, be active.
   294. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5695018)
So is locking kids in cages... but here we are.


Yes, here we are -- unable to get a proper consensus around ending this because of loony leftish rhetoric and aims. People don't trust you and yours, and for good reason. Again, simple analytical reality.

NOTE for the slow: I'm not remotely saying this policy choice by the administration is the loony left's "fault." But the loony left does bear significant responsibility for the nuttiness and tribalism that makes sane centrist consensus virtually impossible to come by and implement.
   295. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5695020)
So is locking kids in cages... but here we are.

It would seem minority positions can sometimes become policy.


Of course no main line Democrat is advocating open borders, that is just a hysterical phantasm promulgated by lunatics, trolls, and liars. Putting kids in cages however is the mainstream GOP position, for now. I still suspect Trump will cave, and sooner rather than later. That is a guess based on Trump's craven nature, so I could easily be wrong.

In any event it is not guess that this is a disaster for the GOP. Has anyone credible argued it is anything but? Does anyone think this is a political winner for the GOP? Clearly it is immoral, but put that aside, does anyone think this will help the GOP politically?
   296. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:25 AM (#5695021)
You have to go all the way back to 2010 to remember when the Democrats had the House, Senate, and White House. It was untold generations ago I guess.


It sure feels like generations ago doesn't it? The playbook and the "game" have changed.


Sam is generally smart and occasionally has the odd nugget of sense, but on this issue he is nuts. If you don't like what is happening politically then get more involved, vote, donate, be active.


I have always voted and donated since I have been eligible to do so. The thing about it is, you can't bring logic to a conversation with people who do not have any use for logic. Logic only works because logical people acknowledge it as a set of rules to use. I hate the idea of fighting, in the past, present or future; but these people are literally terrorists holding the government hostage. I have never felt more powerless, more defeated, more apathetic. War and/or bloodshed of any kind are senseless and awful and I hope it never comes to that; but at some point your methods of negotiation have to change.

   297. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:25 AM (#5695022)
Has a single mainstream, elected Democrat advocated for an open border? This position of "the Dems want a completely open border" is more made up deplorable lore.
The word “mainstream” is doing a bunch of work there, but I doubt that significant numbers of Democrats have actually advocated for open borders de jure. But many have advocated for policies that constitute de facto open borders. If one doesn’t want to deport anyone already here¹ and one doesn’t want to increase border security...


¹Usually they’ll say that they’re okay with deporting criminals, but not law-abiding ones. But watch Andy on that issue: he’ll start moving goalposts and explain why this guy’s crimes don’t count and that guy’s crimes don’t count, and about the only person he’s willing to deport at the end of the day is Mohamed Atta.
   298. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5695024)
"We're not as bad as the Nazis" is a hell of a slogan.
This is a common left-wing rhetorical trick: accuse someone of being Literally Hitler, and then when it’s pointed out that the accused is nothing like Hitler, sneer that people are damning him with faint praise by saying,Well, he’s not as bad as Hitler.”

I mean Nazis classified people by race, and affirmative action supporters classify people by race, so...
   299. -- Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5695025)
It sure feels like generations ago doesn't it? The playbook and the "game" have changed.


The American dreams of far more "brown people" were being dashed then than now.

I hate the idea of fighting, in the past, present or future; but these people are literally terrorists holding the government hostage.


No, they're not "literally" that or really anything close.
   300. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5695026)
Since Clown Hitler is back in fashion, I would like to remind people that this is precisely how the real Hitler government operated.

No, it's not -- and you sound unhinged saying so.


It exactly is.

You think Hitler was details-oriented? In fact, he was considered terribly undisciplined by Nazis who were. He woke late, had no patience for long or detailed briefings, and preferred to govern by random pontificating. You should read about his "table talks" sometime - a deeply insecure man who would random with an authoritative tone on all sorts of manners, who was suspicious of most humor because he worried they were making fun of him.

High-level functionaries learned how to curry favor - catch Hitler in a euphoric mood and get him to stamp whatever they individually wanted... so much the better if plans contradicted adversaries. Speer said in his biography that this was by design by Hitler - overlapping portfolios intended to create conflict so the stronger one would get the job done (and the not the stronger one would learn to do better).

Karl Brandt took T4 large scale in precisely this way - Hitler had voiced support for such a program for years, but feared public backlash (and had backed down in early attempts to implement after religious complaints)... so Brandt and Philipp Bouhler tinkered and tested until the early weeks of the war - when Brandt told Hitler, as German armies sliced through Poland, it was time.

Thus it went it all matters - evil and mundane, military and domestic... competing fiefdoms set up to compete by design.
Page 3 of 18 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
1k5v3L
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 17: How Brett Kavanaugh explains his baseball ticket debt
(1961 - 1:33pm, Sep 22)
Last: --

NewsblogWainwright impresses Giants' Bochy
(2 - 1:32pm, Sep 22)
Last: Leroy Kincaid

NewsblogOT - August/September 2018 College Football thread
(256 - 1:29pm, Sep 22)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogAddison Russell’s Ex-Wife Releases Detailed Allegations Of Abuse
(58 - 1:25pm, Sep 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogDetroit Tigers' Victor Martinez: Saturday will be final game of career
(7 - 1:23pm, Sep 22)
Last: Sweatpants

NewsblogWillians Astudillo Should Be Your New Favorite Player
(30 - 1:16pm, Sep 22)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(823 - 1:14pm, Sep 22)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogRed Sox Fan Dies Climbing On Top of Train Leaving Yankee Stadium
(21 - 1:03pm, Sep 22)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(512 - 12:29pm, Sep 22)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogHall of Famer John Smoltz says MLB needs an overhaul and proposes drastic changes
(72 - 12:17pm, Sep 22)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogHearing WFAN’s John Sterling home run call on WEEI was a weird juxtaposition
(14 - 11:17am, Sep 22)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

NewsblogIt's not the full moon that excites OMNICHATTER! for Sept. 21, 2018
(89 - 11:12am, Sep 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogYuli Gurriel has 7-RBI night as Astros clinch playoff berth
(4 - 11:03am, Sep 22)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

Sox Therapy11 Days Later
(89 - 10:40am, Sep 22)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogHow Pitch-Framing Became More Important—and More Common—Than Ever - The Ringer
(1 - 8:34am, Sep 22)
Last: bfan

Page rendered in 0.8045 seconds
46 querie(s) executed