Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, June 18, 2018

OTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game

“This game is a situation of which, you’re a product of your political success, so if you have a good political year, you have a good recruiting year for this game.” So said former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., many years ago about the Congressional Baseball Game and the teams each party gets to field.

Washington is host to the 2018 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, known among fans as the midsummer classic. But Capitol Hill has staged its own midsummer classic every year for more than five decades, the Congressional Baseball Game.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:15 AM | 1775 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 4 of 18 pages ‹ First  < 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›
   301. GordonShumway Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5695027)
In any event it is not guess that this is a disaster for the GOP. Has anyone credible argued it is anything but? Does anyone think this is a political winner for the GOP? Clearly it is immoral, but put that aside, does anyone think this will help the GOP politically?


I don't know if separating brown children from their parents at the border and cramming them in cages at the border helps the GOP politically, but I don't see any reason to believe it will hurt them.

Both in 2014 and 2016, when the GOP ran on a stridently anti-illegal immigration platform, it was the great hope by liberals/Democrats that either (1) Latinos and/or liberals would vote in greater numbers for Democrats, out of fear/disgust for the GOP; and/or (2) that moderate Republicans and/or GOP leaning independents/swing voters would either stay home or vote for the Democrats.

This didn't happen. Until the day it does, color me skeptical.
   302. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5695029)
No, they're not "literally" that or really anything close.


They are holding innocent children hostage so that your dictator can get his wall built. If that's not terrorism I don't know what is.
   303. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5695031)
Yes, here we are -- unable to get a proper consensus around ending this because of loony leftish rhetoric and aims. People don't trust you and yours, and for good reason. Again, simple analytical reality. NOTE for the slow: I'm not remotely saying this policy choice by the administration is the loony left's "fault." But the loony left does bear significant responsibility for the nuttiness and tribalism that makes sane centrist consensus virtually impossible to come by and implement.

One could probably write a full dissertation on cognitive dissonance from these five sentences alone.
   304. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5695032)
You got your ####### majority on SCOTUS just STFU about some mislabeling of a tattoo. Oh, and you want to defend that POS joker heard today talking about all the crying babies need a "composer" at the hell camps? You ####### enabler POS.
Going Full Sam is never a Good Look.
   305. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5695033)
No, they're not "literally" that or really anything close.

They are holding innocent children hostage so that your dictator can get his wall built. If that's not terrorism I don't know what is.

I assume you are replying to stretchy there, in which case, I can answer that for him: It is only terrorism when brown people do it.
   306. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5695034)
No, it's not -- and you sound unhinged saying so. Among a number of obvious things, the Enabling Act had long since been passed in Nazi Germany at this equivalent time. Four months or so after Hitler took power, the Nazi government had irredeemably and completely deviated from the fundamental structure of the current US government.


Your historical knowledge is as lacking as your knowledge in other realms...

In point of fact, the Enabling Acts still recognized the President - Hindenburg, as superior to his Chancellor (Hitler). A foghorn to be sure, but it wasn't until the Long Knives in July of 1934 and Hindenburg's death a few weeks later - nearly a year and half after the passage of the Enabling Acts.
   307. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5695036)
I assume you are replying to stretchy there, in which case, I can answer that for him: It is only terrorism when brown people do it.


Of course. Like I said about logic, it only works when all the parties in the discussion agree to use it. The same goes for the truth.
   308. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5695038)
If that's not terrorism I don't know what is.


I know, that's what I already said. You don't know what it is.
   309. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5695039)
In other ridiculousness...

Michael Caputo joins Roger Stone in remembering "Oh yeah, THAT meeting... "

One cannot help but wonder if Caputo's memory was better when he was interviewed by Mueller or not. I guess we'll find out.
   310. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5695042)
Has a single mainstream, elected Democrat advocated for an open border? This position of "the Dems want a completely open border" is more made up deplorable lore.

The word “mainstream” is doing a bunch of work there, but I doubt that significant numbers of Democrats have actually advocated for open borders de jure. But many have advocated for policies that constitute de facto open borders. If one doesn’t want to deport anyone already here¹ and one doesn’t want to increase border security...

There may be a few Democrats who advocate open borders, but the most prominent spokesman for it is Nick Gillespie of Reason, a libertarian magazine you sometimes speak favorably of, or at least you used to. Not wanting to deport people who've lived here illegally for years without endangering anyone is a wholly mainstream position outside of Trump Territory.

¹Usually they’ll say that they’re okay with deporting criminals, but not law-abiding ones. But watch Andy on that issue: he’ll start moving goalposts and explain why this guy’s crimes don’t count and that guy’s crimes don’t count, and about the only person he’s willing to deport at the end of the day is Mohamed Atta.

In fact my position on immigration corresponds to that of Barack Obama, George Bush, and the 68 Senators who voted for the Gang of 8 immigration reform bill of 2013. Not wanting to deport 11 million nonviolent illegal aliens who've set down roots here for many years is a position that also happens to correspond with the majority of the country as a whole. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to distort my position on this issue, but I'd like to think it's because your conscience bothers you for continuing to align yourself with Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions.
   311. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5695045)
At least the Trump administration is keeping close track of the children it tosses in cages, right?

Oh, maybe not so much...

As he handed down that sentence to one portion of the group, a migrant woman exercised her right to inform the court that the gender of her child was improperly listed. She was separated from a daughter, she said, not a son.


The Government Has No Plan for Reuniting the Immigrant Families It Is Tearing Apart

In the past two months, the government has taken some two thousand immigrant children away from their parents. Under the zero-tolerance policy, border crossers are arrested and charged with a crime before being placed in immigration detention. If they came with their children, the children are turned over to O.R.R. and treated as though they travelled to the U.S. alone. No protocols have been put in place for keeping track of parents and children concurrently, for keeping parents and children in contact with each other while they are separated, or for eventually reuniting them. Immigration lawyers, public defenders, and advocates along the border have been trying to fill the void.

Kephart had one other lead. The family in Guatemala had the phone number of a children’s shelter run by O.R.R. where they thought that the girl might be. The number had come from a neighbor who had also been separated from a child in the U.S. When Kephart called that shelter, she was told that the girl wasn’t there but that someone with a similar name and date of birth might be at a facility nearby. Eventually, Kephart tracked down a case manager at the second facility. “I told her, ‘Look, I have this situation. I think you have a girl there,’ ” Kephart told me. “The case manager said, ‘Oh, my God, yes!’ The case manager had a kid whose parents she couldn’t find. She was trying to help, but she’d had nothing to go on.”

Although the zero-tolerance policy was officially announced last month, it has been in effect, in more limited form, since at least last summer. Several months ago, as cases of family separation started surfacing across the country, immigrant-rights groups began calling for the Department of Homeland Security (D.H.S.), which is in charge of immigration enforcement and border security, to create procedures for tracking families after they are split up. At the time, D.H.S. said that it would address the problem, but there is no evidence that it actually did so. Erik Hanshew, a federal public defender in El Paso, told me that the problems begin at the moment of arrest. “Our client gets arrested with his or her child out in the field. Sometimes they go together at the initial processing, sometimes they get separated right then and there for separate processing,” he said. “When we ask the Border Patrol agents at detention hearings a few days after physical arrest about the information they’ve obtained in their investigation, they tell us that the only thing they know is that the person arrested was with a kid. They don’t seem to know gender, age, or name.”
   312. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5695046)
I know, that's what I already said. You don't know what it is.


So you're saying that kidnapping children to try to score political points is not terrorism?
   313. Traderdave Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5695047)
You think Hitler was details-oriented? In fact, he was considered terribly undisciplined by Nazis who were. He woke late, had no patience for long or detailed briefings, and preferred to govern by random pontificating. You should read about his "table talks" sometime - a deeply insecure man who would random with an authoritative tone on all sorts of manners, who was suspicious of most humor because he worried they were making fun of him.

High-level functionaries learned how to curry favor - catch Hitler in a euphoric mood and get him to stamp whatever they individually wanted... so much the better if plans contradicted adversaries. Speer said in his biography that this was by design by Hitler - overlapping portfolios intended to create conflict so the stronger one would get the job done (and the not the stronger one would learn to do better).

Karl Brandt took T4 large scale in precisely this way - Hitler had voiced support for such a program for years, but feared public backlash (and had backed down in early attempts to implement after religious complaints)... so Brandt and Philipp Bouhler tinkered and tested until the early weeks of the war - when Brandt told Hitler, as German armies sliced through Poland, it was time.

Thus it went it all matters - evil and mundane, military and domestic... competing fiefdoms set up to compete by design.



There exists a theory that the Holocaust gradually increased in its ferocity due to competition among various Nazis to please Hitler. In the early years the Nazis were fine with Jews surrendering their property & emigrating. A good many Nazis promoted the Madagascar Plan, to deport all Jews to that island. Escalation continued to Operation Barbarossa when the Einsatzgruppen were unleashed, originally to target Communist officials but Einsatzgruppen A took things many steps further to genocide-by-bullet, an idea which quickly spread to the other E. groups, and then morphed further into genocide-by-gas in occupied Poland and (later) Hungary.

Obviously the above is a massive simplification and a single paragraph doesn't properly explain it, but it's a reasonable illustration of and comparable to what is happening now with competing Republicans trying to please the leader with anti-immigration strategies. Before anyone flips out and calls Godwin on me, no, it's not exactly the same (history doesn't repeat so much as rhyme) but it is a pattern of motivations and actions that has disturbing parallels to today.
   314. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5695050)
Kephart had one other lead. The family in Guatemala had the phone number of a children’s shelter run by O.R.R. where they thought that the girl might be. The number had come from a neighbor who had also been separated from a child in the U.S. When Kephart called that shelter, she was told that the girl wasn’t there but that someone with a similar name and date of birth might be at a facility nearby. Eventually, Kephart tracked down a case manager at the second facility. “I told her, ‘Look, I have this situation. I think you have a girl there,’ ” Kephart told me. “The case manager said, ‘Oh, my God, yes!’ The case manager had a kid whose parents she couldn’t find. She was trying to help, but she’d had nothing to go on.” Although the zero-tolerance policy was officially announced last month, it has been in effect, in more limited form, since at least last summer. Several months ago, as cases of family separation started surfacing across the country, immigrant-rights groups began calling for the Department of Homeland Security (D.H.S.), which is in charge of immigration enforcement and border security, to create procedures for tracking families after they are split up. At the time, D.H.S. said that it would address the problem, but there is no evidence that it actually did so. Erik Hanshew, a federal public defender in El Paso, told me that the problems begin at the moment of arrest. “Our client gets arrested with his or her child out in the field. Sometimes they go together at the initial processing, sometimes they get separated right then and there for separate processing,” he said. “When we ask the Border Patrol agents at detention hearings a few days after physical arrest about the information they’ve obtained in their investigation, they tell us that the only thing they know is that the person arrested was with a kid. They don’t seem to know gender, age, or name.”

They - and I include David here - will hand-wave this away until they lose their voice and their hands are bone.
   315. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5695051)
I assume you are replying to stretchy there, in which case, I can answer that for him: It is only terrorism when brown people do it.


Congratulations on offering the sublimely perfect proof of my points. Well done.
   316. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5695053)
Congratulations on offering the sublimely perfect proof of my points. Well done.


Congratulations on being an idiot.
   317. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5695054)
So you're saying that kidnapping children to try to score political points is not terrorism?


Yes, and I'm also saying that they aren't being "kidnapped."
   318. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5695055)
Yes, and I'm also saying that they aren't being "kidnapped."


What are you saying is happening? Just so I know what your "truth" is?
   319. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5695056)
You don't need to make Hitler comparisons to put Trump and his backers into historical perspective. All you have to do is study the career of George Corley Wallace and the sort of fervor he inspired in his grievance-filled backers. Wallace is frightening enough without having to get into comparisons with Brownshirts.
   320. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5695057)
In fact my position on immigration corresponds to that of Barack Obama, George Bush, and the 68 Senators who voted for the Gang of 8 immigration reform bill of 2013.


No, Andy, your "position on immigration" isn't deporting and/or sending home 600,000 to 1 million would-be Americans per year. That's what happened under Obama and Bush II.

   321. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5695058)
So you're saying that kidnapping children to try to score political points is not terrorism?

Yes, and I'm also saying that they aren't being "kidnapped."


terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

So here we are going to get hung up on the word "unlawful" right? Separating these kids from their parents is perfectly lawful because the policy of your dictator says so. GTFOH with that crap.
   322. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5695061)
It's not "unlawful," it's not "violence," and it's not "intimidation." It's not "terrorism." The policy can be strenuously objected to without such nonsense and indeed such nonsense makes sane centrist consensus very difficult to achieve, as I noted upthread.
   323. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5695062)
The reason Democrats have such a horrific Senate map is that Democrats won six years ago in tough places and in tough races. That is a good thing, because it shows Democrats can win.

Second time I've seen this argument and it is kind of weird. So without a historically charismatic leader doing a first thing in the history of America the Democrats in the Senate would be a permanently minority party. That's the good thing?

Unless things change the Dems will be a minority for most of the time in the Senate because despite the Dems representing more people the GOP has a larger percentage of states under their control. If white blue collar voter truly are getting disillusioned with Democrats and moving over to the GOP side or not voting then the Democrats are well and truly fvcked for the foreseeable future.
   324. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5695063)
What are you saying is happening?


Children are being separated from their parents because of a stupid policy, being stupidly bordering on grotesquely administered.

Not complicated.
   325. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5695065)
"Essentially summer camps"

In that case, I have a wonderful idea to stem the tide of negative press.

I think the Ingraham and the Trumps should send their kids to these summer camps... to prove how they're essentially summer camps.
   326. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5695066)
It's not "unlawful," it's not "violence," and it's not "intimidation." It's not "terrorism."

I mean, getting away from your other quacky statements and conclusions, I'll go for the dictionary softball (while avoiding your still-ridiculous use of quotations): How exactly is taking children away from their parents not considered intimidation?
   327. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5695073)
Second time I've seen this argument and it is kind of weird. So without a historically charismatic leader doing a first thing in the history of America the Democrats in the Senate would be a permanently minority party. That's the good thing?


No, that is your ridiculous straw man.

You are making specious claims that Democrats in the Senate will be a permanent minority based on what exactly?

Here is a "mapping" of political power over time in the US by party. Political power in the United States over time. Go ahead, look it over.

Now walk me through your rigorous (no-narrative based) theory on how now, eight years after having complete control over the White House, Senate and House (with larger majorities than the Republicans now hold) Democrats are DOOMED!!!!

These things are cyclical. Parties go in and out of power for a whole host of reasons. Even the base cohort groups that ally together to form political parties change and evolve over time. Your hysterics over Republican Permanent Majority over the Senate is just that, hysterics. Calm down already.
   328. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5695074)
It's not "unlawful," it's not "violence," and it's not "intimidation." It's not "terrorism."



It certainly is violence and it certainly is intimidation. The fact that it is lawful is semantics. If Congress legalized mass murder and Jeff Sessions stood at the border picking off potential immigrants, it would be "lawful". If sane centrists in this country don't scream bloody murder about the GOP enacting policy to take brown people's children away to score political points, then A) "sane centrists" are ignorant or B) "sane centrists" are evil. Tell me, which one are you?
   329. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5695075)

Second time I've seen this argument and it is kind of weird. So without a historically charismatic leader doing a first thing in the history of America the Democrats in the Senate would be a permanently minority party. That's the good thing?

Unless things change the Dems will be a minority for most of the time in the Senate because despite the Dems representing more people the GOP has a larger percentage of states under their control. If white blue collar voter truly are getting disillusioned with Democrats and moving over to the GOP side or not voting then the Democrats are well and truly fvcked for the foreseeable future.


????

Those tough races in 2012 - only Joe Donnelly was a freshman-elect.

Sherrod Brown in Ohio, Claire McCaskill in Missouri, and Jon Tester in Montana all won their seats in 2006. Joe Manchin was first elected in 2010 (special election, 2012 for a full term).

EDIT: Ditto Bob Casey - first elected in 2006 - if you want to add PA into the mix.
   330. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5695078)
They - and I include David here - will hand-wave this away until they lose their voice and their hands are bone.
Here’s a novel idea: how about if you criticize me for things I actually say, rather than making up stuff and claiming I would say it?
   331. DavidFoss Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5695079)
So without a historically charismatic leader doing a first thing in the history of America the Democrats in the Senate would be a permanently minority party. That's the good thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_of_United_States_Senators

You are correct, they certainly need to prove they can do a lot better than they did in 2014 (R:21-12) and 2016 (R:22-12). Losing 9 seats in 2014 (which was the same map as Obama's historic 2008) hurt quite a bit.

But they can't fix any of that this year. The 2012/2018 map is already (D:23-8). It's hard to improve on that.
   332. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5695081)
????

Those tough races in 2012 - only Joe Donnelly was a freshman-elect.

Sherrod Brown in Ohio, Claire McCaskill in Missouri, and Jon Tester in Montana all won their seats in 2006. Joe Manchin was first elected in 2010 (special election, 2012 for a full term).



So then Hurricane Katrina, the Gulf War, and Bush II? Where were you when this was brought up before?

We've had some pretty effed up times over the last 15 odd years. Perhaps this is how it goes normally and the 20 odd years before that time was the atypical period.
   333. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5695083)
It certainly is violence and it certainly is intimidation.


No, it's neither. It's no more "violent" and "intimidating" than taking two drug dealing parents off to jail. (Or for that matter one, if it's a single parent household.)

Excessive language and rhetoric does far more harm than good. The situation is so bad that it can be decried quite persuasively using accurate language.
   334. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5695084)
You are correct, they certainly need to prove they can do a lot better than they did in 2014 (R:21-12) and 2016 (R:22-12). Losing 9 seats in 2014 (which was the same map as Obama's historic 2008) hurt quite a bit.


2014 midterm turnout was the lowest midterm turnout in 70 years, barely hitting 36%.

I have zero concern that 2018 turnout will be quite higher than that... well, at least for one party - it will.
   335. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5695086)
Here’s a novel idea: how about if you criticize me for things I actually say, rather than making up stuff and claiming I would say it?

You've had plenty to say about weeping children being coached by lawyers and activists; but I've missed a lot of other things regarding your opinion on these events, so that's where I assumed you would land regarding that quote. I'll accept correction.
   336. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5695087)
No, that is your ridiculous straw man.

You are making specious claims that Democrats in the Senate will be a permanent minority based on what exactly?

Here is a "mapping" of political power over time in the US by party. Political power in the United States over time. Go ahead, look it over.

Now walk me through your rigorous (no-narrative based) theory on how now, eight years after having complete control over the White House, Senate and House (with larger majorities than the Republicans now hold) Democrats are DOOMED!!!!

These things are cyclical. Parties go in and out of power for a whole host of reasons. Even the base cohort groups that ally together to form political parties change and evolve over time. Your hysterics over Republican Permanent Majority over the Senate is just that, hysterics. Calm down already.


538

But while the 2018 map is the party’s steepest uphill climb in a long time, defending red-state Senate seats isn’t a new challenge for Democrats. In fact, they’ve gotten pretty good at it over the years. They haven’t had a choice: It gets less ink than the gerrymandered districts in the U.S. House, but the Senate — which reserves the same number of seats for a sparsely populated state as for a crowded one — has an inherent Republican bias as well. Within the past 25 years, Democratic majorities in the Senate — up through 1995, briefly from 2001 to 2002 and then finally from 2007 to 2015 — were possible because more Democrats represented red states than Republicans represented blue states. To wield a majority in 2019 and beyond, Democrats will simply (OK, not so simply) have to pull off the same trick.

Still, Democrats should probably be thrilled with an overperformance of even half that. It all comes back to that pesky Republican bias in the Senate — and specifically its lopsided distribution. In short, 2018 could be not just bad, but a veritable armaggeddon for Senate Democrats. They should count their lucky stars that their worst-case map looks like it’s going to coincide with their best-case turnout environment.

The Senate isn’t just biased toward Republicans; it’s really biased toward Republicans. Going by partisan lean, there are 31 states more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole compared with just 19 states more Democratic-leaning. Because each state has two senators, that means 62 Senate seats (a filibuster-proof supermajority) are Republican-leaning and 38 are Democratic-leaning. But thanks to the Democratic overperformance we’ve been talking about, Republicans hold only a 51-49 majority.

That’s a glaring Achilles heel for Democrats. One bad election cycle for this class could virtually eliminate red-state Democrats from the Senate in one fell swoop. That would give Republicans something like a 20-seat majority in the upper chamber — probably too wide for Democrats to overcome in any single future election cycle. Our current sense that the Senate could switch hands in any given election year would be no more, potentially emboldening the Republican majority to pass more conservative policies. In order to regain control, Democrats would not only need to rebuild their standing in red states from the ground up but also sustain that success over multiple election cycles. Given how presidential/midterm dynamics have caused recent elections to yo-yo between Democratic and Republican waves, that kind of sustained success looks harder than ever to achieve. It’s probably not an exaggeration to say that a bad 2018 could condemn Democrats to the Senate minority indefinitely — at least until something big changes about American political parties.

   337. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5695089)

You've had plenty to say about weeping children being coached;
I didn't say anything about weeping children being coached. I simply explained that Coulter said that.
   338. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5695090)
A) "sane centrists" are ignorant or B) "sane centrists" are evil. Tell me, which one are you?
Why limit the choices to "one"?

I kid, I kid. The correct answer is B; the ignorance is feigned for effect. Don't fall for the shtick.
   339. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5695091)
I don't know if separating brown children from their parents at the border and cramming them in cages at the border helps the GOP politically, but I don't see any reason to believe it will hurt them.


Well, we shall see. All the polling I have seen, news coverage and such suggest it very much is hurting them right now. The fact that the issue is splitting the GOP while unifying Democrats very much suggests the issue is hurting the GOP.

It is different than past similar iterations of GOP policy (those that did not hurt the GOP nearly as much) in a couple ways. I have stated them before, but it is a new page so I will again.

1) This is a very simple story. It is not complex, it doesn't require any previous knowledge. Children are being ripped away from their parents and held in cages/camps/tent cities.

2) There are powerful images that capture the entire story. Visuals are very important and the visuals for this story are truly damning.

3) It is a story that goes directly to a central pillar of GOP President Trump. This is right in his wheelhouse and is being done directly by his administration in a change from previous administrations. It attacks a strength of Trump's directly.

4) The critical group this issue strikes at a married women, especially suburban women. This is a group who very much are against crime and sympathetic to many tough immigration efforts, but are unsurprisingly not on board with separating breastfeeding babies and their mothers. This strikes directly at this group, and if that group in large enough numbers moves against the policy and those who are putting it forth then it is a complete disaster for the GOP.

5) Because it is splitting the GOP, plenty of GOP icons including current office holders and candidates have come out against it, the chorus against it is bipartisan, while the defense of it is solely Republican. Bipartisan cover is very useful politically, even today. It breaks the he said, she said stalemate.
   340. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5695093)
Your silence otherwise speaks volumes. Your only thought on the horrors of the policy was a ham handed attempt to parse coulters words into a more favorable light?

Seems like it.
   341. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5695094)
One of the things I haven't seen discussed much is the ramifications of blaming congress in an election year. If the Trumpkins well and truly believe their dear leader this should lead to dissatisfaction for Congress and generally that means the party in power pays the price.
   342. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5695096)
I didn't say anything about weeping children being coached. I simply explained that Coulter said that.

Except now you're making up what she said. She didn't say anything about lawyers coaching anyone (that I've found, again, I'll accept correction), so when you replied in #124 with who was coaching the children to cry, I'm not entirely sure how I was supposed to figure out those were her thoughts and not yours.
   343. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5695097)
Your silence otherwise speaks volumes. Your only thought on the horrors of the policy was a ham handed attempt to parse coulters words into a more favorable light?

Seems like it.


That's kind of what David does. He's not really interested in debating a topic so much as he's interested in pointing outwhere you are wrong in your argument.
   344. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5695098)
Hundreds of members at Sessions's church write formal complaint over immigration policy

"While other individuals and areas of the federal government are implicated in each of these examples, Mr. Sessions - as a long-term United Methodist in a tremendously powerful, public position - is particularly accountable to us, his church," the letter reads. "He is ours, and we are his. As his denomination, we have an ethical obligation to speak boldly when one of our members is engaged in causing significant harm in matters contrary to the Discipline on the global stage."
   345. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5695099)
McCoy you seem to think the 538 article is support for your point, when it really isn't.

Once more for the slow. The Senate does currently favor Republicans. Democrats are definitely sailing against a headwind to get a majority. That is NOT the same thing as what you have claimed, that we have to expect a permanent GOP majority in the Senate absent a miracle.

As the very article you quote says, Democrats have gotten pretty good at getting elected and then defending in red states. Democrats are, by necessity and also for historical reasons, a much less coherent ideological party than are the Republicans. One of the reason for this and one of the benefits of it is that it allows for red state Democrats to win and defend their offices.

In an ideal world would I rather a perfectly fair playing field? Sure. But for now it isn't. However whining, stamping your feet, and otherwise engaging in self defeating hysterics is not the answer.
   346. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5695101)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Crime in Germany is up 10% plus (officials do not want to report these crimes) since migrants were accepted. Others countries are even worse. Be smart America!
8:52 AM - Jun 19, 2018


Not content to make up things domestic...

Germany saw a rise in violent crimes perpetrated by the political left and a drop in attacks on asylum centers in 2017, according to the latest crime statistics released by the interior ministry Tuesday.

The new figures show a drop in crime of 5.1 percent over the previous year, with 5.76 million crimes reported.

“The number of crimes committed in Germany is the lowest since 1992,” Interior Minister Horst Seehofer announced at a presentation of 2017 police crime statistics in Berlin. “The frequency of fewer than 7,000 cases for every 100,000 inhabitants is unprecedented, even in a 30-year comparison.”


   347. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5695102)
Once more for the slow. The Senate does currently favor Republicans. Democrats are definitely sailing against a headwind to get a majority. That is NOT the same thing as what you have claimed, that we have to expect a permanent GOP majority in the Senate absent a miracle.

And we have been given that miracle absent that they would be in the minority(well, they are in a minority and have been one for awhile). I mean I guess keep on expecting a miracle is a kind of strategy. A winning Republican President that was not Trump buoyed by a continuing good economy and a North Korea with a collapsed nuclear testing site should have been able to shepherd through a good GOP election result in 2018. That we'll get the complete opposite of that because of Trump isn't something we should be crediting the Democrats for. They got handed a gift at the exact moment they needed a miracle and even with that miracle it is likely that the GOP Senate majority will increase in 2018.


In an ideal world would I rather a perfectly fair playing field? Sure. But for now it isn't. However whining, stamping your feet, and otherwise engaging in self defeating hysterics is not the answer.

What does this have to do with anything I've said?
   348. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5695103)
That's kind of what David does. He's not really interested in debating a topic so much as he's interested in pointing outwhere you are wrong in your argument.


This is true, but I think there is also the fact that David can only stand agreeing with a bunch of liberals for so long before he has to find something to diverge about. Because David is sane he knows Trump is a dumpster fire and so is forced to mostly agree with the liberals on that, so he embraces opportunities to go after liberals when possible to keep the scales balanced and sometimes he gets a bit ahead of his skies while doing so.
   349. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5695104)
In fact my position on immigration corresponds to that of Barack Obama, George Bush, and the 68 Senators who voted for the Gang of 8 immigration reform bill of 2013. Not wanting to deport 11 million nonviolent illegal aliens who've set down roots here for many years is a position that also happens to correspond with the majority of the country as a whole. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to distort my position on this issue,
Because you're misrepresenting the facts. The Gang of Eight bill said nothing about "nonviolent." It rendered ineligible for amnesty anyone convicted of a felony, or three misdemeanors. (Excluded from these factors were crimes that were crimes only because of the person's illegal status.) But you've repeatedly argued against deporting even criminals.
   350. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5695105)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Crime in Germany is up 10% plus (officials do not want to report these crimes) since migrants were accepted. Others countries are even worse. Be smart America!
8:52 AM - Jun 19, 2018


Not content to make up things domestic...

Germany saw a rise in violent crimes perpetrated by the political left and a drop in attacks on asylum centers in 2017, according to the latest crime statistics released by the interior ministry Tuesday.

The new figures show a drop in crime of 5.1 percent over the previous year, with 5.76 million crimes reported.

“The number of crimes committed in Germany is the lowest since 1992,” Interior Minister Horst Seehofer announced at a presentation of 2017 police crime statistics in Berlin. “The frequency of fewer than 7,000 cases for every 100,000 inhabitants is unprecedented, even in a 30-year comparison.”



This was brought up in the presser yesterday, and Girl Spicey dodged it with the usual "I haven't seen that report."
   351. perros Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5695107)

I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast the other day.


This will get lost admidst the shouting match, but he did a couple recently on memory and how Brian Williams got the shaft for being human on Letterman. Gladwell just barely scratches the surface on these topics, but I'm fascinated how it takes so long for a culture to catch up to speed on science... the irony being how speed makes it so hard for us poorly evolved humans to do so.

No worries, we'll be superceded by something better adapted soon enough.
   352. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5695110)
And we have been given that miracle absent that they would be in the minority. I mean I guess keep on expecting a miracle is a kind of strategy. A winning Republican President that was not Trump buoyed by a continuing good economy and a North Korea with a collapsed nuclear testing site should have been able to shepherd through a good GOP election result in 2018. That we'll get the complete opposite of that because of Trump isn't something we should be crediting the Democrats for. They got handed a gift at the exact moment they needed a miracle.


Dude, seriously?

The party in power virtually always loses seats. It is very handy that right now with a crappy map, that the Democrats are out of power (i.e. not in the White House). But then you go nuts and over generalize into crazy talk about permanent minorities.

Even if Hillary had won the Democrats were not doomed to a permanent minority. Yes they would have lost a bunch of Senate seats, but - and I don't know how to break this to you - but given there are two major parties the vast majority of the time (absent a tie) one will be in the majority and one will be in the minority. Since there are staggered six year terms these things go in waves/cycles and interact with the presidency cycle, but none of that is miraculous. It is politics.

There are no miracles required. The most likely outcome in 2018 is status quo in the Senate, and then in 2020 there is a very strong chance Democrats gain a majority (because that map is much better and the GOP will still hold the White House). What happen in 2022 depends a great deal on who wins the Presidency, but in 2024 things look really bad for Democrats again.

Nothing miraculous in any of that, just mostly the calendar and simple politics.

EDIT: Winning against a headwind is NOT a miracle. No by any definition I am familiar with anyway.
   353. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5695112)
The situation is so bad that it can be decried quite persuasively using accurate language.


Clutch them pearls tight
   354. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5695113)
Because you're misrepresenting the facts. The Gang of Eight bill said nothing about "nonviolent." It rendered ineligible for amnesty anyone convicted of a felony, or three misdemeanors. (Excluded from these factors were crimes that were crimes only because of the person's illegal status.)


And he has said he supported that bill.

But you've repeatedly argued against deporting even criminals.


I don't remember that, but I would love to see a cite for my own edification.
   355. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5695117)
It's not "unlawful," it's not "violence," and it's not "intimidation." It's not "terrorism."


You're not a "lawyer".
   356. McCoy Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5695118)
It would currently be 52-48 with it probably going to something like 57-43 this year without Trump. So what's the plan for 2020? Biden going to fire up the base? Kamala? At best for the Democrats it swings mildly back to the middle. Probably stays about the same. So then we've got 2022. What's going to happen then? If it doesn't swing all the way over to the Dems favor they are going to wind up in trouble because here comes 2024 and the same map they had in 2018.

Nothing miraculous in any of that, just mostly the calendar and simple politics.

Except you know, Trump.
   357. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5695119)
They got handed a gift at the exact moment they needed a miracle and even with that miracle it is likely that the GOP Senate majority will increase in 2018.


Even with the map, I think I'd take a straight-up bet the Democrats manage to hold serve. I'd need odds for the Dems to pick up a seat (or the two they need to control the chamber) - but the map looks starkly different than it did even just 6 months ago.

The midwest has nearly gone off the board - Casey, Brown, Baldwin and Stabenow aren't realistic targets any more. Joe Donnelly still has to sweat it out - but he's holding his own and got a lot of help from the nasty GOP primary, with the two-known entities getting knocked off by an untested guy that hasn't yet had much oppo research done on him. Claire McCaskill is looking increasingly better (thanks, Eric!).

Manchin is Manchin - and despite the fact that WV has a sore loser law, Don Blankenship continues to run ads and forge ahead as a spoiler - and he got a bit of gift in his opponent (being a former drug company lobbyist - one who previously ran for office in New Jersey before winning WV AG no less - is not exactly the best sort of candidate for WV).

New polling out of Montana shows Tester in really good shape.

The GOP isn't even bothering with Virginia.

What was once a target friendly environment nearing 10 seats has really shrunk to about three... The aforementioned Donelly, Heidi Heitkamp in ND, and maybe Nelson in Florida (polling in FL-SEN is all over the place - ranging from a safe Nelson lead to a tie).

Meanwhile, getting Bredersen in TN was a real Democratic coup - and Blackburn continues to look like a really bad candidate. Add to that Heller in real trouble and the open AZ seat...

Straight-up bet - I'd say it all comes out with the same 49-51 Senate next January...
   358. GordonShumway Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5695120)
It would currently be 52-48 with it probably going to something like 57-43 this year without Trump. So what's the plan for 2020? Biden going to fire up the base? Kamala? At best for the Democrats it swings mildly back to the middle. Probably stays about the same. So then we've got 2022. What's going to happen then? If it doesn't swing all the over to the Dems favor they are going to wind up in trouble because here comes 2024 and the same map they had in 2018.


Yeah, but the Latino population, which generally votes Democratic 65-75% of the time, is growing at a far faster rate than the rest of the population. Democrats, as long as they don't mess things up (HA!), should get more votes in the future simply due to demographic changes.

   359. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5695121)
Even if Hillary had won the Democrats were not doomed to a permanent minority. Yes they would have lost a bunch of Senate seats, but - and I don't know how to break this to you - but given there are two major parties the vast majority of the time (absent a tie) one will be in the majority and one will be in the minority. Since there are staggered six year terms these things go in waves/cycles and interact with the presidency cycle, but none of that is miraculous. It is politics.


Oddly enough, if Hillary had won?

I'd expect the Dems to be looking at least -5... Hell, Manchin might well have changed parties. Bredesen almost certainly wouldn't have bothered in TN. I doubt Roy Moore wins his primary - and I doubt Doug Jones beats him if he does. Donnelly might well be dead meat.

Would've been better for the country if Hillary had won in 2016 - but oddly enough, a short-term negative for the Democratic party.
   360. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5695124)
Random tweet I'm re-typing with no knowledge of accuracy or source, because it's kinda funny:
About 75 people blockading ICE prison in Portland OR. DHS keep coming out to ask protesters to let 9 ICE employees to leave. "So they can get home to their families". LOL
   361. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5695126)
Democrats, as long as they don't mess things up (HA!), should get more votes in the future simply due to demographic changes.

I always see messages about new young liberal voters replacing old (dead) conservative voters, but I have no idea if the data bears that out. Seems like something Nate would have written on.
   362. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5695127)

Would've been better for the country if Hillary had won in 2016 - but oddly enough, a short-term negative for the Democratic party.


And this is the difference between normal people and crazy people. We (I feel safe including you here but correct me if I'm wrong) care more about the country than the Democratic party even if we almost always vote Democrat.
   363. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5695130)
Ahhh... Trumpy...

President Donald Trump is getting frustrated with his administration’s own demands for border wall funding.

In a private meeting regarding the wall Monday, Trump fumed to senators and his own staff about the $1.6 billion the Senate is planning to send him this fall, according to two people familiar with the meeting. Trump wants the full $25 billion upfront and doesn’t understand why Congress is going to supply him funds in a piecemeal fashion — even though that’s how the spending process typically works.

"He was fixated on the $25 [billion]," said one of the people. He "didn't get the concept of annual appropriations."

In fact, the $1.6 billion figure came from Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, who was present at the meeting. Mulvaney submitted the request to Congress earlier this year, though OMB has since upped its ask to $2.2 billion.


A year and a half in and the President doesn't understand annual appropriations... even the requests coming from his own handpicked lieutenants.

What an idiot.
   364. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5695131)
I doubt Roy Moore wins his primary - and I doubt Doug Jones beats him if he does.


If Hillary had won, Jeff Sessions would still be an AL Senator.
   365. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5695132)
I doubt Roy Moore wins his primary - and I doubt Doug Jones beats him if he does.

If Hillary had won, Jeff Sessions would still be an AL Senator.


Oh yeah... oops:-)
   366. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5695133)
President Donald Trump is getting frustrated with his administration’s own demands for border wall funding.

In a private meeting regarding the wall Monday, Trump fumed to senators and his own staff about the $1.6 billion the Senate is planning to send him this fall, according to two people familiar with the meeting. Trump wants the full $25 billion upfront and doesn’t understand why Congress is going to supply him funds in a piecemeal fashion — even though that’s how the spending process typically works.

"He was fixated on the $25 [billion]," said one of the people. He "didn't get the concept of annual appropriations."

In fact, the $1.6 billion figure came from Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, who was present at the meeting. Mulvaney submitted the request to Congress earlier this year, though OMB has since upped its ask to $2.2 billion.


Has Trump completely punted even the pretense of Mexico footing the bill?
   367. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5695134)
President Donald Trump is getting frustrated with his administration’s own demands for border wall funding.


Is the King of Mexico not returning his calls? Trying to pay him in jumping beans? What's the issue here?

EDIT - an overly-sugared Fanta to Misirlou
   368. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5695141)
President Donald Trump is getting frustrated with his administration’s own demands for border wall funding.

In a private meeting regarding the wall Monday, Trump fumed to senators and his own staff about the $1.6 billion the Senate is planning to send him this fall, according to two people familiar with the meeting. Trump wants the full $25 billion upfront and doesn’t understand why Congress is going to supply him funds in a piecemeal fashion — even though that’s how the spending process typically works.

"He was fixated on the $25 [billion]," said one of the people. He "didn't get the concept of annual appropriations."

In fact, the $1.6 billion figure came from Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, who was present at the meeting. Mulvaney submitted the request to Congress earlier this year, though OMB has since upped its ask to $2.2 billion.


Any funding for that wall is a shameful waste of monopoly money that could be used to help actual people in need.
   369. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5695142)
   370. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5695148)
He "didn't get the concept


Is also Trump's 2020 slogan... if he's around for 2020... which I suspect he won't be.
   371. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5695149)
I always see messages about new young liberal voters replacing old (dead) conservative voters, but I have no idea if the data bears that out. Seems like something Nate would have written on.


I have stuff to do, but ....

Young People Are Staying Liberal

Jonathan Chait: “For obvious reasons, the broadly liberal demographic trends in American politics have received much less attention since the 2016 election. Yet the fact remains that America is politically sorted by generations in a way it never has before. The oldest voters are the most conservative, white, and Republican, and the youngest voters the most liberal, racially diverse, and Democratic. There is absolutely no sign the dynamic is abating during the Trump years. If anything, it is accelerating.”

“The most recent Pew Research Survey has more detail about the generational divide. It shows that the old saw that young people would naturally grow more conservative as they age, or that their Democratic loyalties were an idiosyncratic response to Barack Obama’s unique personal appeal, has not held. Younger voters have distinctly more liberal views than older voters.”


There are some links in the article. Maybe later I will search out more. In general though I think the answer is yes, but. Yes, that is the current trend, but it is never as simple as all that and I is not forever or anything like it. In the medium term it should help Democrats a fair amount, but the future is a strange place, so who knows.
   372. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5695154)
We're making up the entire cost of the wall in tariffs on Mexican steel. Aren't you people paying attention?
   373. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5695156)
That's kind of what David does. He's not really interested in debating a topic so much as he's interested in pointing outwhere you are wrong in your argument.

This is true, but I think there is also the fact that David can only stand agreeing with a bunch of liberals for so long before he has to find something to diverge about. Because David is sane he knows Trump is a dumpster fire and so is forced to mostly agree with the liberals on that, so he embraces opportunities to go after liberals when possible to keep the scales balanced and sometimes he gets a bit ahead of his skies while doing so.

Bingo. And this is how BTF's foremost decrier of Big Government winds up in bed with Jeff Sessions.
   374. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5695158)
Except now you're making up what she said. She didn't say anything about lawyers coaching anyone (that I've found, again, I'll accept correction), so when you replied in #124 with who was coaching the children to cry, I'm not entirely sure how I was supposed to figure out those were her thoughts and not yours.
She said that they were actors; I said by that she meant that they were coached, not that they were paid fakes as some nuts¹ claim that school shooting people are. So you asked who would be coaching them, and I gave a list of possibilities she'd be talking about.


¹She may be vile, but she's not loopy.
   375. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5695164)

That's kind of what David does. He's not really interested in debating a topic so much as he's interested in pointing outwhere you are wrong in your argument.
This is a complete lie. I debate topics all the time. (Not sure how pointing out where you're wrong about a topic isn't part of debating a topic, though.) But there's nothing to debate here.
   376. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5695165)
¹She may be vile, but she's not loopy.
I repeat: I strenuously object to any argument or statement that makes Coulter seem in any way reasonable.

She can be vile *and* loopy.
   377. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5695166)

In that case, I have a wonderful idea to stem the tide of negative press.

I think the Ingraham and the Trumps should send their kids to these summer camps
Uh, Donald Trump Jr. has a business to run; he can't spend his entire day doing archery and boating around in a canoe.
   378. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5695169)
Yeah that sounds like work.
   379. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5695171)
There are some links in the article. Maybe later I will search out more. In general though I think the answer is yes, but. Yes, that is the current trend, but it is never as simple as all that and I is not forever or anything like it. In the medium term it should help Democrats a fair amount, but the future is a strange place, so who knows.


Hard to parse much from a blowout, but if memory serves - Reagan's 1984 best age demo was voters under 30. Those folks are right now, the cusp of being the 65 & over demo.

In any case, as much as I agree that young liberals become older liberals - at least/especially on cultural/social matters - I'm actually more interested to find out if we see some real youth turnout gains in 2018 and 2020.

Tracking preferences as people move from age demo to age demo is interesting - but I'm a lot more interested to see if the Trump hate/Parkland activism/etc leads to better turnout in the 2018 midterms.
   380. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5695178)
Uh, Donald Trump Jr. has a business to run; he can't spend his entire day doing archery and boating around in a canoe.


Speaking of which...

McClatchy piece on how the Trump's survived the 2008 fiscal crisis... you'll never guess where the liquidity came from.
   381. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5695181)
Tracking preferences as people move from age demo to age demo is interesting - but I'm a lot more interested to see if the Trump hate/Parkland activism/etc leads to better turnout in the 2018 midterms.


The special elections results suggest yes (I think), but always be skeptical about young voter turnout.
   382. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5695187)
But you've repeatedly argued against deporting even criminals.

I don't remember that, but I would love to see a cite for my own edification.
My statement is a summary of the argument I was making; I don't mean that Andy said "I don't support deporting criminals." I mean that every time a criminal is arrested and threatened with deportation, Andy comes up with an excuse why this particular person should be excluded from the class of people who should be deported.
   383. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5695192)
you'll never guess where the liquidity came from.
Scratch off lotto tickets?

(Clicks link.)

Nope; it appears my guess was wrong.
   384. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5695194)
The special elections results suggest yes (I think), but always be skeptical about young voter turnout.


No doubt - it's always lagged... but it doesn't need to match older voter turnout - it never will - just getting to ~25% would be gangbusters - 30%, bonkers good for a midterm.

   385. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5695198)
Not only did Kris Kobach lose his lawsuit in Kansas -- but the judge has taken the unusual step of ordering him to attend remedial legal education courses...

U.S. District Judge Julie Robinson on Monday ruled a Kansas law that requires new voters to prove citizenship is unconstitutional and ordered Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach to return to school as punishment for repeated violations of court rules.

Her 118-page ruling sides with the American Civil Liberties Union in a two-year legal battle over the law’s burden and effect on elections. She provided a damning assessment of Kobach’s witnesses, calling their evidence flawed, invalid, biased, irrelevant, unreliable and untrustworthy.

Robinson also takes aim at Kobach for “repeated and flagrant violations” of court procedures during the March trial. His repeated last-minute efforts to introduce new evidence showed a pattern of “flaunting disclosure and discovery rules that are designed to prevent prejudice and surprise at trial,” she said.

As a sanction, Kobach must take six hours of continuing law education in addition to any hours required for his law license.
   386. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5695202)
My statement is a summary of the argument I was making; I don't mean that Andy said "I don't support deporting criminals." I mean that every time a criminal is arrested and threatened with deportation, Andy comes up with an excuse why this particular person should be excluded from the class of people who should be deported.

What complete BS. At most I've argued against deporting someone with a long-ago DWI conviction with no recent violations. Meanwhile, there are millions of nonviolent illegal aliens who've established roots here and have harmed nobody during their entire stay, and who are now considered fair game for deportation by the goons whose boss---Sessions---you call "qualified" for his job.

Given your long and seemingly principled opposition to Trump in so many ways, I find it hard to believe that you still keep defending the policies that represent the very essence of Trumpism in their gratuitous cruelty. But as the Mouse says, you're trapped between a rock and a hard place, loathing Trump but not wanting to be associated with his liberal critics---even if they're often saying the exact same things about him that you are.
   387. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5695220)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13. They can’t win on their terrible policies, so they view them as potential voters!
8:52 AM - Jun 19, 2018


Is it time for another lecture about historical parallels?

   388. Ishmael Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5695231)
Of course no main line Democrat is advocating open borders, that is just a hysterical phantasm promulgated by lunatics, trolls, and liars.

I think I posted a week or so ago that I was reading Chris Bertram’s Do States Have the Right to Exclude Immigrants? It’s an interesting look at the assumptions and axioms of the immigration debate. I don’t think that Bertram quite advocates for completely open borders, although he would I think defend certain open borders arrangements. Rather he argues for a rebuttable right to freedom of movement.

The political conversation around immigration is a long way downstream from the question posed by the book. But it is illustrative, I think, of the level of lawful cruelty that states routinely inflict upon irregular migrants and residents. Just look at what Salvini said yesterday about the Roma for another example. Arendt called citizenship the "right to have rights." I think that’s still a pretty telling description.
   389. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5695236)
Is it time for another lecture about historical parallels?


Explains the harsh treatment of children. Nits make lice.
   390. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5695237)
And more evidence of the most excellent Clown Hitler administration planning...

DHS, HHS Have No Plans To Expand Migrant Detention Facilities

“We expect that the new policy will result in a deterrence effect and we certainly hope parents stop bringing kids on this dangerous journey,” HHS spokesman Steve Wagner said.

* * *
“I don’t know how many separated kids have been placed with sponsors or reunited with their parents,” Wagner said. “I could look into it, this policy is relatively new, and we are still working through the experience of reuniting kids with their parents after adjudication.”

Finally, and perhaps most worryingly, there is no policy about what border patrol is supposed to do with very young children when they are first taken into custody apart from their parents, before they are transferred into the care of HHS.

“Discretion is given to field chiefs for application referrals for sensitive cases, and that includes adults with tender-aged children,” said Chief Patrol Agent Brian Hastings. “The chiefs can make a discretionary call.”


So... pair that with some of the prior stuff, particularly on the haphazard way the caged kids are shuttled around, incorrectly logged by the cagers, etc.

Probably a good time for Magda to do another "I'll have to look into that" presser...
   391. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5695240)
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13. They can’t win on their terrible policies, so they view them as potential voters!
8:52 AM - Jun 19, 2018


This guy is out here committing treason and has the nerve to say Democrats don't care about crime.
   392. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5695251)
Because of course they are...


Reuters Top News
‏Verified account @Reuters

BREAKING: U.S. plans to announce withdrawal from U.N. Human Rights Council on Tuesday - source
9:09 AM - 19 Jun 2018
   393. Traderdave Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5695257)
For those confident of Il Duce's re-election, take a careful look at the bond market:

-The Treasury yield curve is the flattest it's been since '07, a condition which strongly portends recession in the next year. The curve is a sneeze away from inversion (and indeed a few esoteric metrics already are inverted). An inverted curve makes recession a fait accompli.

-Corporate bond credit spreads (the additional yield demanded over Treasury yields to compensate for credit risk vs govies) have cracked about 30 basis points higher in recent months. The equities market has to a great extent shaken that off but history suggests that whistle past the graveyard is a major error.

DLF will almost surely be enjoying my whiskey this November, but if we re-up that bet for 2 quarters, I will be sipping his.
   394. . Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5695259)
Meanwhile, there are millions of nonviolent illegal aliens who've established roots here and have harmed nobody during their entire stay, and who are now considered fair game for deportation by the goons whose boss---Sessions---you call "qualified" for his job.


Those people have been deported for decades, including under Obama. It's never, ever been either the rule or practice that setting down roots here and not committing a crime meant you wouldn't get deported. Obama kind of lurched in that direction at the very end of his term, but that was a deviation from precedent.
   395. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5695260)
BREAKING: U.S. plans to announce withdrawal from U.N. Human Rights Council on Tuesday - source


Why do modern liberals keep making Trump do these things? Why?
   396. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5695262)
BREAKING: U.S. plans to announce withdrawal from U.N. Human Rights Council on Tuesday - source


I'll plead ignorance: What is the perceived upside to this move?
   397. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5695265)
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13. They can’t win on their terrible policies, so they view them as potential voters!
8:52 AM - Jun 19, 2018
We now eagerly await RDP's justification of how this sentiment is not only legally correct, but morally required, I think because of Ghazala Khan's vicious attack on Trump.
   398. DavidFoss Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5695266)
Is it time for another lecture about historical parallels?

It's hard to read these tweets without 'going there'. But, of course, you'll sound unhinged if you do!

That's the thing, we could have a reasonable debate with the posters here who want less immigration (and more documentation for the immigration which does occur). But then Sessions botches softball questions from Laura Ingraham and Trump rants on twitter as if his policies are even more extreme than they actually are.
   399. DavidFoss Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5695268)
Every time I see "MS-13", I think "but Mississippi only has four congressional districts!". The gang needs a new name.
   400. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5695270)
I'll plead ignorance: What is the perceived upside to this move?

The Art of the Deal being the new bible or something.
Page 4 of 18 pages ‹ First  < 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Andere Richtingen
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2310 - 10:52pm, Nov 15)
Last: stanmvp48

NewsblogMarlins get rid of orange, cite South Florida cultures with new look
(4 - 10:50pm, Nov 15)
Last: puck

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(383 - 10:49pm, Nov 15)
Last: Zonk qualifies as an invasive species

NewsblogJoe Mauer Retires After 15 Seasons
(67 - 10:49pm, Nov 15)
Last: Ziggy's screen name

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(227 - 10:49pm, Nov 15)
Last: Ray (CTL)

NewsblogYelich, Betts Win MVPs
(29 - 10:34pm, Nov 15)
Last: Ziggy's screen name

NewsblogPirates acquire three players in trade with Tribe
(22 - 9:20pm, Nov 15)
Last: Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)

NewsblogRickey Won't Quit
(12 - 9:15pm, Nov 15)
Last: base ball chick

NewsblogFox Sports inks multi-year rights agreement with Major League Baseball
(23 - 9:08pm, Nov 15)
Last: Leroy Kincaid

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(4 - 9:02pm, Nov 15)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

Sox TherapyThe Greatest Red Sox Team...EVER!!!!
(76 - 8:14pm, Nov 15)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogAL Central Offseason Preview
(9 - 7:41pm, Nov 15)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1213 - 7:22pm, Nov 15)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogManny Machado: Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner wants 'essential' chat
(13 - 6:47pm, Nov 15)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

Gonfalon CubsNow what?
(231 - 6:39pm, Nov 15)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

Page rendered in 0.8196 seconds
46 querie(s) executed