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Sunday, December 18, 2011

How to Play Base-Ball, by Connie Mack

Hat tip to Base-Ball Nation.

The District Attorney Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:06 AM | 84 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, history, memorabilia

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   1. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:20 AM (#4018756)
Old timey baseball always reminds me of Conan O'Brien's trip to visit the anachronistic ballplayers.
   2. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:26 AM (#4018759)
How to Play Base-Ball, by Connie Mack


Lesson 1: Buy the team---That way they can't fire you for finishing last 17 times in 36 years.
   3. Babe Adams Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:40 AM (#4018765)
Was Mack the most respected man in the history of baseball? He was revered by personalities as diverse as Cobb and Veeck.
   4. OCF Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:17 AM (#4018778)
By George Edward (Rube) Waddell? Forgive me for having doubts that that's actually his writing.
   5. PreservedFish Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:46 AM (#4018786)
Maybe "Rube" was an ironic nickname.
   6. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:53 AM (#4018789)
Maybe "Rube" was an ironic nickname.

Well, his main hobby was chasing fire trucks, so draw your own conclusions. (smile)
   7. Bob Evans Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:58 AM (#4018792)
Forgive me for having doubts that that's actually his writing.

Anyone in that collar will be guaranteed to write like Oscar Wilde.
   8. AndrewJ Posted: December 18, 2011 at 06:02 AM (#4018794)
Was Mack the most respected man in the history of baseball? He was revered by personalities as diverse as Cobb and Veeck.

Good question. Branch Rickey would also be in contention. Also J.G. Taylor Spink and Henry Chadwick.
   9. DA Baracus Posted: December 18, 2011 at 07:01 AM (#4018802)
"Well Know Pittsburg Baseball Man" would be a great handle for a Pirates fan.
   10. asdf1234 Posted: December 18, 2011 at 07:32 AM (#4018807)

Was Mack the most respected man in the history of baseball?


If we include media personalities, I'd go with Vin. Even in the era of universally-beloved broadcasters like Buck, Caray, and Harwell, Vinny is head and shoulders above them all.
   11. Morty Causa Posted: December 18, 2011 at 08:09 AM (#4018813)
Maybe "Rube" was an ironic nickname.


What did Bill James write about him in the BJHBA? That he didn't have the brains God gave a rabbit. "Compared to Rube Waddell, Dizzy Dean was a Rhodes scholar."

Rube Waddell

Wikipedia paints a rather colorful portrait of Waddell.
   12. cwinff Posted: December 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM (#4018830)
Bill James always spouts on things, and there are some things that he is way off base on, such as Paul Hine's arrest, Ty Cobb's and Ted Williams' being psychos. As much as he is committed to logical analysis ( so he says ), James still has inherent likes and dislikes AND prejudices like all of us.

Waddell was described by newspapers of his time as having an unabashed joy about certain activities that most of us abandon when we get past puberty, but then so did Mark the Bird. He also had a lot of phobias, but one must keep in mind that the newspapers of that time were basing a lot of things on the Hearst "school of scandalous and super-exaggerated reporting".

Besides, just what the heck does James know about being a Rhodes Scholar?
   13. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: December 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM (#4018834)
From Wikipedia: "Ken Burns' baseball documentary claims Waddell lost track of how many women he'd married."

Yeah, I hate when that happens. It's worst when you mix up which anniversary you're supposed to be celebrating with whom.
   14. AndrewJ Posted: December 18, 2011 at 01:33 PM (#4018835)
He also had a lot of phobias, but one must keep in mind that the newspapers of that time were basing a lot of things on the Hearst "school of scandalous and super-exaggerated reporting".

As opposed, of course, to today's hyper-accurate, moderate Murdoch era.
   15. formerly dp Posted: December 18, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#4018910)
So what would it take to bring back thee hyphen in "base-ball"?
   16. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 18, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#4018926)
So what would it take to bring back thee hyphen in "base-ball"?


Ryan Rowland-Smith making it back to the big leagues?
   17. OsunaSakata Posted: December 18, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#4018944)
Ryan Rowland-Smith making it back to the big leagues?


I am never going to forget that he was the first player with a hyphenated name in MLB. There was a couple in our book club with the last name Smith-Rowland. Their name was formed in the usual American way - the wife's name was Smith, the husband's name was Rowland.
   18. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 18, 2011 at 08:31 PM (#4018962)
If hypenating is supposed to be such a 'we're so progressive and liberated' thing, then why is the husband's name always last?
   19. smileyy Posted: December 18, 2011 at 08:43 PM (#4018964)
Not always last, but yeah, usually. A significant fraction of the names of students I'm in contact with at Oberlin are hyphenated.
   20. AndrewJ Posted: December 18, 2011 at 09:24 PM (#4018984)
There was a one-liner from THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JOHNNY CARSON during the mid-1970s (written by the late Pat McCormick) about a primitive tribe planning to ritualistically remove Farrah Fawcett-Majors's hyphen...
   21. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 18, 2011 at 09:26 PM (#4018986)
What does a person with a hyphenated last name do when he or she gets married?
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2011 at 09:30 PM (#4018988)
What does a person with a hyphenated last name do when he or she gets married?

Won't somebody think about the grandchildren!
   23. Something Other Posted: December 18, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#4019041)
From Wikipedia: "Ken Burns' baseball documentary claims Waddell lost track of how many women he'd married.""That's why I call 'em all, 'Honey'."
   24. SG Posted: December 19, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#4019052)
This is a fantastic link. I had no idea Connie Mack's real name was Cornelius McGillicuddy.
   25. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:14 AM (#4019058)
Seriously? I thought everybody knew that. Don't they teach it in kindergarten anymore?
   26. Lassus Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:29 AM (#4019064)
If hypenating is supposed to be such a 'we're so progressive and liberated' thing, then why is the husband's name always last?

Does it truly make no sense to you that a practice conceived against the abandonment of the female's given name would often put the name of the female first?
   27. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#4019069)
Does it truly make no sense to you that a practice conceived against the abandonment of the female's given name would often put the name of the female first?


Is this sarcasm? We're talking about surnames. Last is first.
   28. Lassus Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:43 AM (#4019076)
I spoke quickly, and therefore wrongly, but the point remains. The woman's family name. The one that would normally have been given up, and had been up until hyphenating began.

I simply find it odd, given how and why the practice began, that you would be confused by the more common placement of the hyphenated names.
   29. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:56 AM (#4019078)
The one that would normally have been given up, and had been up until hyphenating began.


Yes, but as Vaux notes, what happens with her daughter? Does she double-hyphenate?

I understand the desire to retain the surname of the male line in her family before a woman met her husband. But there is a practical reason for the parties in a marriage to adopt a single name.
   30. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:21 AM (#4019088)
I'm not confused. I'm just wondering how all these hyphenating husbands would feel about giving up the honored place on the other side of the hyphen.

there is a practical reason for the parties in a marriage to adopt a single name.


I know a couple who decided to each keep their own names and alternate the surnames they gave their children. It apparently never occurred to them that most people would assume theirs was a second marriage and the kids were not biologically related.
   31. GregD Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:28 AM (#4019092)
I have cousins who--like ex-Secty of Defense Bill Cohen's son--simply invented a new name when they married. Which resolves both problems.

When double-named people marry, they figure it out. There are options--each dropping one name, keeping their names and making a choice for their children. It isn't like nuclear fission in a bathtub; it's a mild dilemma but hardly an insuperable problem. We didn't hyphenate but it's odd to me that people get invested in opposition to it. Who cares?
   32. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:35 AM (#4019095)
I'm not invested, either. Not confused. Not invested. Perhaps oddly fascinated. And perhaps a bit more than I probably should be.
   33. Lassus Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:40 AM (#4019096)
Yes, but as Vaux notes, what happens with her daughter?

Well, my direct answer to Vaux's question - "What does a person with a hyphenated last name do when he or she gets married?" - would be "Whatever he or she wants."


I'm not invested, either. Not confused. Not invested. Perhaps oddly fascinated.

I admit, I didn't read "If hypenating is supposed to be such a 'we're so progressive and liberated' thing..." as particularly objective or without agenda, if that is how you meant it.
   34. Banta Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:42 AM (#4019097)
I totally think people should invent an entirely new name after getting married. Maybe a combination of the two last names or better, a description of the couples' relationship. This could also be used after divorce.
   35. Morty Causa Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:45 AM (#4019099)
This is a fantastic link. I had no idea Connie Mack's real name was Cornelius McGillicuddy.


I remember when I first learned of it I thought it was cool. And, if you know anything about Connie Mack, so apt. The name sounds like something from classic screwball comedy or from '40's radio.
   36. PreservedFish Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:04 AM (#4019108)
I know a couple that invented a new last name - two dopey white Americans - it was a Spanish word that they insisted be pronounced in the Spanish way - the reviews were resoundingly negative.
   37. KingKaufman Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:32 AM (#4019120)
My wife's surname goes first in our hyphenated kids' last names. The entirety of the thought we put into it was trying it both ways, and that way was just more euphonious.

People sometimes ask us what our kids will do when they get married, and sometimes: What will they do if they get married to ANOTHER hyphen. Our stock, joking answer: That's their problem! A nicer way to say it is they're free to do whatever they want.

As GregD notes, it doesn't seem to us to be an insurmountable hurdle.
   38. GregD Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:42 AM (#4019124)
I assume most of you saw this Times article already
   39. Ebessan Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:55 AM (#4019129)
I totally think people should invent an entirely new name after getting married.

There was a Dateline about a man accused (and acquitted) of murdering his wife in which the couple had done this.

"She just wanted something that was ours. So we made "heart," out of "Eckhart," and we made "song" out of "Soren," and we put "heart" and "song" together and we were Bob and Toni Heartsong."
   40. esseff Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:04 AM (#4019132)
The name sounds like something from classic screwball comedy or from '40's radio.


Possibly because screwball comic Lucille Ball used the name McGillicuddy as the maiden name of her Lucy Ricardo character.
   41. PreservedFish Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:07 AM (#4019134)
It's interesting that surnames can be associated with different eras. What happened to all the McGillicuddys?
   42. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:28 AM (#4019144)
She just wanted something that was ours. So we made "heart," out of "Eckhart," and we made "song" out of "Soren," and we put "heart" and "song" together and we were Bob and Toni Heartsong."


I guess that's way better than "Soreneck".
   43. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:02 AM (#4019153)
I didn't read "If hypenating is supposed to be such a 'we're so progressive and liberated' thing..." as particularly objective or without agenda


I'd say you just read it way too seriously. Sorry for the inconvenience.
   44. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:40 AM (#4019168)
This is a fantastic link. I had no idea Connie Mack's real name was Cornelius McGillicuddy.


I remember when I first learned of it I thought it was cool. And, if you know anything about Connie Mack, so apt. The name sounds like something from classic screwball comedy or from '40's radio.

Or even more precisely, from a W.C. Fields movie: Eustace McGargle, J. Effingham Bellweather, Harold Bissonette, Larson E. Whipsnade, Cuthbert J. Twillie, Egbert Sousè (accent grave), or Mahatma Kane Jeeves.
   45. Something Other Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:49 AM (#4019172)
One caution, though. My sister married and hyphenated. With the hyphen the combination came to seventeen characters. That's one character too many for a lot of forms to handle, and has caused the kids many problems. Not as many as my sister caused them, but its been a pain in the butt for them.
   46. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:57 AM (#4019176)
I had no idea Connie Mack's real name was Cornelius McGillicuddy.

And your enjoyment of the Christopher Guest oeuvre is thereby increased 1%.

Edit: see at 0:07.
   47. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:59 AM (#4019177)
I meant the question in a jocular way. I don't want anyone to think that I'm opposed to hyphenating last names, or making up new last names, or using old last names, or whatever else people decide to do. Of course, as Mr. Other points out, there can sometimes be actual, rather than merely jesting, practicalities to be considered. For myself, I kind of feel like a woman would be being overly submissive to me if she took my last name--I'd prefer her to keep her own name. My girlfriend and I have had that conversation, and she thinks that the wife taking the husband's name is the best thing to do, "for historical continuity reasons." We're both historians, so that's interesting.
   48. OCF Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:01 AM (#4019179)
A colleague of mine, starting with one of the most common Korean family names, married a husband who had one of the other most common Korean names. They decided to hyphenate - a completely American style hyphenation. The result has an interesting flair to it. (And helps distinguish her from two other colleagues with the same name.)

I frequently have students in my classes with Mexican (or other Latin American) style dual last names (father's name first). The only problem there is that our computer record system doesn't handle that very well and usually smashes the names together with no space, hyphen, or internal capitalization.
   49. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:16 AM (#4019183)
I remember when I first learned of it I thought it was cool. And, if you know anything about Connie Mack, so apt. The name sounds like something from classic screwball comedy or from '40's radio.


Mack was in his seventh screwball decade of base-ball by the 1940's.
   50. Morty Causa Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:45 AM (#4019193)
Or even more precisely, from a W.C. Fields movie: Eustace McGargle, J. Effingham Bellweather, Harold Bissonette, Larson E. Whipsnade, Cuthbert J. Twillie, Egbert Sousè (accent grave), or Mahatma Kane Jeeves.


When it comes to names that tickle,

P. G. Wodehouse

Note that the English go in for hyphenated names some, too.
   51. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:57 AM (#4019209)

Yes, but as Vaux notes, what happens with her daughter? Does she double-hyphenate?


In Spain, a person traditionally takes the last name of their father, followed by the last name of their mother.

So if María Cruz González marries Pedro Gil García, their daughter would be, say, Dolores Gil Cruz. If she marries Juan Martínez Marcén, their son would be José Martínez Gil.

Women who take their husbands name (a bit old-fashioned today) use "de" followed by his name. So María's full name would be María Cruz González de Gil, and Dolores' would be Dolores Gil Cruz de Martínez.

The paternal last name is the "official" last name and the maternal last name is often dropped in casual contexts.
   52. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:59 AM (#4019211)
A female friend of mine married a man who had always hated his last name - when they married, she kept her name, and he changed his surname to hers...
   53. OsunaSakata Posted: December 19, 2011 at 11:59 AM (#4019219)
A colleague of mine, starting with one of the most common Korean family names, married a husband who had one of the other most common Korean names. They decided to hyphenate - a completely American style hyphenation. The result has an interesting flair to it. (And helps distinguish her from two other colleagues with the same name.)


Park-Lee? Kim-Park? Fenway-Park? Kim-Kardashian?

What happened to all the McGillicuddys?


They're still around.
   54. Greg K Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:33 PM (#4019223)
When it comes to names that tickle,

I should have known Guybrush Threepwood was Wodehouse inspired.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is having a promising rookie season for the Edmonton Oilers.
   55. Greg K Posted: December 19, 2011 at 01:40 PM (#4019224)
French Canadian names are a bit weird. They seem to love doubling up on the first name, and in every story of pre-WW2 Quebec it seems like every girl was named Marie.

Also now they seem oddly strict on women changing their name after marriage and I've even heard of a request to take a husband's name denied by the government.
   56. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 19, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#4019229)
When I married I basically told the wife that she could keep her name, change to mine, or whatever, but no hyphenating. She of course had already decided what to do (keep her own name) and did not need my input in the slightest. The boys have my last name, but I didn't know they would until after they were born (hey she carried them for nine monthes, she got to name them).

My last name is to darn long to hyphenate. As stated above it would be a huge hassle.
   57. depletion Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:08 PM (#4019237)
Rube Waddell is one of my favorite players. Insanity never held him down. Wiki also has this nugget. "Waddell still holds the American League single season strikeout record by a left-handed pitcher."
For more than a century. From deadball days.

From http://www.chinmusic.net/RubeWaddell.html:
"The Rube" was known for arriving just before game time in his street clothes, and then strolling through the grandstands raising a commotion. He was said to be fond of drinking beer, eating red hots, and sometimes picking fights with the fans. Often, he'd throw free peanuts to kids, and it is said that he would usually change into his uniform as he ran across the diamond to the clubhouse. This was a spectacle all in itself, as "The Rube", it is claimed, never wore any underwear....

One such account (as reported in a 1905 issue of the Philadelphia Daily News) documents an incident in which the hayseed, while thoroughly enjoying himself on a houseboat cocktail party, responded to a frantic cry for help. Faster than you can say, "free agent," Waddell dived into the frigid waters and succeeded in rescuing a passing log.
   58. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:20 PM (#4019241)
A colleague of mine, starting with one of the most common Korean family names, married a husband who had one of the other most common Korean names. They decided to hyphenate - a completely American style hyphenation. The result has an interesting flair to it. (And helps distinguish her from two other colleagues with the same name.)

I once worked at a company where a married couple both worked. They were Christopher X and Christine Y. They both used the hyphenated last name, X-Y.

Unfrotunately, both went by Chris. Not a good outcome.

Whatever happened to the woman just using her maiden name as a middle name? My mom took my dad's last name, but always makes a point of using her maiden/middle name also.

You could even give the kids the mother's maiden name as their middle name.

That way you preserve the name, but don't get the messy hyphenation.

Note that the English go in for hyphenated names some, too.

I think the English upper classes mainly did it when the mother's family was more prestigious than the father's. They wanted everyone to know who your were.
   59. Greg K Posted: December 19, 2011 at 03:46 PM (#4019250)
I think the English upper classes mainly did it when the mother's family was more prestigious than the father's. They wanted everyone to know who your were.

My middle name is kind of like that. "Vaughan" was a prominent ship-building family in New Brunswick and my grandfather's mother's maiden name. It's also cool because if I say my full name it kind of sounds like I come from German nobility (especially since my last name is German). It's win-win.
   60. Morty Causa Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:10 PM (#4019263)
Bugs Raymond (no hyphen)

In spirit, and spirits, Bugs was Jeckle to Waddell's Heckle. Although perhaps not quite the simpleton Waddell was, Raymond was maybe even a worse alcoholic. One story I remember from a book of anecdotes I read as a callow youth has Bugs being removed from a game. Rather than handing the ball to manager McGraw, he pretends to be enraged, and storms off the mound with the ball still in hand. He rants and raves, gestures and whatnot all the way to the bullpen, continues to do the same all the way out of the ballpark to the nearest bar, where he then trades the ball for a drink.
   61. Swedish Chef Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:39 PM (#4019283)
I once worked at a company where a married couple both worked. They were Christopher X and Christine Y. They both used the hyphenated last name, X-Y.

Unfrotunately, both went by Chris. Not a good outcome.


Evelyn Waugh married Evelyn Gardner. Much hilarity ensued.
   62. OsunaSakata Posted: December 19, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#4019288)
Evelyn Waugh married Evelyn Gardner. Much hilarity ensued.


A good (female) friend of mine from college named Dana married a man named Dana. We'd stopped keeping in touch by then. That marriage didn't last long.
   63. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 19, 2011 at 05:58 PM (#4019327)
Whatever happened to the woman just using her maiden name as a middle name? My mom took my dad's last name, but always makes a point of using her maiden/middle name also.


What "Whatever happened to"? More than 80 percent of American married women take their husband's surname on marriage, based on general statistics. Of those who do change their names, a narrower study of New York Times announcements found that about 5% hyphenate. (Source)

The practice of hyphenating surnames upon marriage has always been a really rare thing to do, and both that and keeping one's maiden name have declined since their peaks around 1980.
   64. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:16 PM (#4019345)
What "Whatever happened to"? More than 80 percent of American married women take their husband's surname on marriage, based on general statistics. Of those who do change their names, a narrower study of New York Times announcements found that about 5% hyphenate. (Source)

The practice of hyphenating surnames upon marriage has always been a really rare thing to do, and both that and keeping one's maiden name have declined since their peaks around 1980.


I understand that, I'm asking what does the hyphen achieve that the maiden-name-as-middle-name doesn't?

The biggest reasons to want to keep the maiden name are recognizing your family lineage and professional continuity. That's achieved either way. But the middle-name route prevents confusion/difficulty on forms, maintains unity of name across the family, etc., as well.

The hyphen seems to be superior only as a political statement.
   65. Babe Adams Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#4019355)
Lately, I've been buying the generic brand of waxed beans. You know, I rip off the label...I can hardly tell the difference.
   66. Nasty Nate Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:37 PM (#4019360)
The biggest reasons to want to keep the maiden name are recognizing your family lineage and professional continuity. That's achieved either way. But the middle-name route prevents confusion/difficulty on forms, maintains unity of name across the family, etc., as well.

The hyphen seems to be superior only as a political statement.


There are many women for whom I know their last name but have no idea of their middle name.
   67. The District Attorney Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:38 PM (#4019363)
Lately, I've been buying the generic brand of waxed beans. You know, I rip off the label...I can hardly tell the difference.
Yeah, this is why we can't have nice threads.
   68. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 06:59 PM (#4019379)
There are many women for whom I know their last name but have no idea of their middle name.

But if they used their maiden name as middle-name, I mean really use it in every day life, you would.
   69. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 07:03 PM (#4019381)
This is a fantastic link. I had no idea Connie Mack's real name was Cornelius McGillicuddy.


I didn't know it until a couple of weeks ago, when I looked up the Congressman to find out whether he was related to the baseball manager, and learned that all of them are actually named "Cornelius McGillicuddy".
   70. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 19, 2011 at 07:08 PM (#4019385)
The hyphen seems to be superior only as a political statement.
I don't think it's purely "political" for both parties in a marriage to want to signify that marriage by changing their names. I think that's the main thing that the hyphen accomplishes - a change for both parties which marks for life their commitment. Having a major change undergone by only one party seems weird to me, unequal in a way that cuts against what marriage ought to be about.
   71. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 07:13 PM (#4019386)
I don't think it's purely "political" for both parties in a marriage to want to signify that marriage by changing their names. I think that's the main thing that the hyphen accomplishes - a change for both parties which marks for life their commitment. Having a major change undergone by only one party seems weird to me, unequal in a way that cuts against what marriage ought to be about.

But my sense is that in most cases of hyphenation, the woman hyphenates, the man doesn't. I could be wrong.
   72. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 19, 2011 at 07:25 PM (#4019391)
But my sense is that in most cases of hyphenation, the woman hyphenates, the man doesn't. I could be wrong.
Is it? I've had some friends hyphenate, in each case it's been shared hyphenation. I'm certainly working from anec-data here, though, so I could be totally wrong.
   73. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#4019395)
Is it? I've had some friends hyphenate, in each case it's been shared hyphenation. I'm certainly working from anec-data here, though, so I could be totally wrong.

Me too, anec-data solely. I guess one of us is right :-)
   74. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:02 PM (#4019423)
"Compared to Rube Waddell, Dizzy Dean was a Rhodes scholar."


Speaking of the latter of whom, & changing the subject drastically, last week, while reading Stephen King's (quite good) latest, I stumbled across the following reference --

I swang, as Leo “The Lip” Durocher used to put it in his colorful radio broadcasts, but now I regretted it.

That should be Diz rather than Durocher, right? I never got the impression that Leo was ever (a) a broadcaster or (b) given to rusticisms like "swang."
   75. BDC Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:36 PM (#4019452)
the woman hyphenates, the man doesn't

Hey, take it to the Dr. Ruth message board.

I have known both people in a couple to hyphenate, and just the woman, and I've known couples to create new fusion names. Not to my taste – I can see wives taking husband's names (or vice versa, though I have never known an instance of that), or keeping their birth names. As several have indicated above, who the hell cares what illustrious family you come from; most Americans' forbears were peasants or servants or whatever just a few generations back.

Probably the neatest solution was by a couple I knew that kept their surnames, had two kids, and gave the daughter the mother's surname and the son the father's. That to me is ingenious, equable, and distinctive; no reason you couldn't cross genders as well and just give a kid a name that sounded good along with either parent's surname ...
   76. dlf Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:45 PM (#4019462)
Probably the neatest solution was by a couple I knew that kept their surnames, had two kids, and gave the daughter the mother's surname and the son the father's. That to me is ingenious, equable, and distinctive; no reason you couldn't cross genders as well and just give a kid a name that sounded good along with either parent's surname ...


I have a family member who has identical twin daughters. They have different last names - one the wife's maiden name (which she kept unhyphenated) and the other the husband's maternal grandmother's maiden name.
   77. PreservedFish Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:46 PM (#4019465)
Probably the neatest solution was by a couple I knew that kept their surnames, had two kids, and gave the daughter the mother's surname and the son the father's. That to me is ingenious, equable, and distinctive;


It's equable (equitable?), and it's distinctive, but it's terrible. Siblings should have the same name. In my opinion. I don't understand this solution at all.
   78. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:50 PM (#4019472)
It's equable (equitable?), and it's distinctive, but it's terrible. Siblings should have the same name. In my opinion. I don't understand this solution at all.


Authorities believe alcohol was involved.

(Presumably the people who came up with this idea live in a yurt or an old VW van. If not, they certainly should.)

(Or maybe they're living in a dugout in the same rural commune as the wonderfully stupid visionaries dlf describes.)
   79. PreservedFish Posted: December 19, 2011 at 08:57 PM (#4019483)
It's not clear to me why "distinctive" is a goal in this process.

And now that I think about it, I dispute "equitable." It's equitable for the parents, because they each get to see their family name live on. But it's not at all equitable for the children - sharing the same name is the only equitable solution for them - and you're also damning them to thousands of "well, our parents were hippies" explanations.

(I assume you meant equitable, not equable, which the internet tells me means steady and calm)
   80. SOLockwood Posted: December 19, 2011 at 09:14 PM (#4019503)
74: I think Durocher did some "Game of the Week" broadcasting in between being fired from his Dodgers' coaching job and getting hired as the Cubs' manager.
   81. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#4019505)
It's not clear to me why "distinctive" is a goal in this process.

That's why the old convention worked well. It helped you know who was married to whom, who was related to whom, etc.

With women having careers, and marrying later, I understand the desire for name consistency. That's why I like the "women uses her maiden-name as middle-name, but actually uses it all the time" solution. She still has the same last name as her husband and children, but she also retains her "former identity".
   82. just plain joe Posted: December 19, 2011 at 09:38 PM (#4019524)
I think Durocher did some "Game of the Week" broadcasting in between being fired from his Dodgers' coaching job and getting hired as the Cubs' manager.


He did indeed. This was before NBC had the exclusive rights to broadcast a nationwide game of the week and the various networks (CBS/NBC/ABC) contracted with individual teams to televise weekend games. I want to say that Durocher served as the color man on ABC's telecasts but I could be wrong.
   83. Gary Truth Serum Posted: December 19, 2011 at 11:07 PM (#4019595)
I think Durocher did some "Game of the Week" broadcasting in between being fired from his Dodgers' coaching job and getting hired as the Cubs' manager.


He did indeed. This was before NBC had the exclusive rights to broadcast a nationwide game of the week and the various networks (CBS/NBC/ABC) contracted with individual teams to televise weekend games. I want to say that Durocher served as the color man on ABC's telecasts but I could be wrong.

You are correct. According to this extremely informative thread, Durocher was one of ABC's main color men in 1965, teaming up with Chris Schenkel.

http://www.the506.com/smf/index.php?topic=2474.0
   84. Morty Causa Posted: December 19, 2011 at 11:19 PM (#4019606)
I swang, as Leo “The Lip” Durocher used to put it in his colorful radio broadcasts, but now I regretted it.

That should be Diz rather than Durocher, right? I never got the impression that Leo was ever (a) a broadcaster or (b) given to rusticisms like "swang."

Yeah, "swang" and "slud" were more Dizzy's style. After having a few of the sponsor's beers during the game, in the late innings he sing the Wabash Cannonball, too. Had a good country blue grass voice:

Wabash Cannonball by Diz, although he sang it better as a younger man

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