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Saturday, May 18, 2019

Ian Kinsler shouts f-bombs at hometown fans

Padres infielder Ian Kinsler went into last night’s game against the Pirates hitting .171/.230/.316. He’s gotten a lot of heat from Padres fans for that. Some players let that kind of thing get to them, some don’t. Kinsler’s behavior last night made it pretty clear that it’s been getting to him.

We know this because when Kinsler hit a go-ahead three-run homer in last night’s game against the Pirates he flipped his bat — and it was a pretty sweet flip — and when he crossed the plate he raised both hands up, looked into the crowd and dropped some f-bombs which seemed to be aimed directly at the hometown fans:

....

I can’t read lips well, but it seems to me he’s saying “F*** you, f*** all you” as he crossed the plate. Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported that once Kinsler got to the dugout he said “F*** every single one of these F***s,” as he put his helmet in the bin at the end of the dugout. The words were, apparently, audible on the original broadcast of the game.

Has Kinsler really played long enough for the Padres for them to be considered “hometown” fans for him?

 

QLE Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:02 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: ian kinsler, obscenities, padres

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   1. A triple short of the cycle Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:58 AM (#5843350)
Kinksler's hometown appears to be Tuscon.
   2. SoSH U at work Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:15 AM (#5843353)

Kinksler's hometown appears to be Tuscon.


Italy's most beautiful desert region.

Has Kinsler really played long enough for the Padres for them to be considered “hometown” fans for him?


If the game's at Petco, and they're cheering for the Pads, they're the hometown fans.

   3. kthejoker Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5843356)
At the end of 2016 Kinsler had 1696 hits and a 13% chance at 3000 per Favorite Toy.

Now he's at 0% for 3000, 21% for 2500 and struggling to get to 2000.

Sad!
   4. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5843362)
Kinsler is a very tough guy to root for. Still seems to be stuck in that insecure, adolescent jock frame of mind.
   5. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5843367)
But he flipped his bat, so he was just having fun and ‘celebrating,’ and we have to like that or we’re bitter old guys!
   6. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: May 18, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5843372)
I like Calcaterra but more and more I read stuff he writes and I feel like he’s going for clickbait at best and is often wrong at worst. This is a nothing burger, Kinsler probably shouldn’t have done it but come on. If Kinsler played for my team I’d want him to be a bit pissed off, he’s not been playing well and if he is getting booed then yeah he should be annoyed.

I remember when a struggling Kevin Miller was benched for a short time bu the Red Sox. He got some heat for some comments along the lines of “I deserve to be in there.” He was wrong but as a Sox fan I loved that he believed in himself. I’d rather that than “oh man I’m pathetic, don’t let me be involved.”
   7. Brian C Posted: May 18, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5843374)
He sure showed up all the haters by having one good at-bat.
   8. akrasian Posted: May 18, 2019 at 12:39 PM (#5843378)
If Kinsler played for my team I’d want him to be a bit pissed off, he’s not been playing well and if he is getting booed then yeah he should be annoyed.

He should be annoyed at himself for letting down his team's fans. Batting that poorly while the Padres are slowly falling way behind in the division is what should be bothering him, not fans being upset. And turning what should be a moment to bond with the fans into a moment to make it less likely he'll ever be liked by the Padres' fans is not a good move.

Baseball is entertainment, or should be. He'd better start hitting great, or the Padres will dump his ass.
   9. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 18, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5843383)
This is a nothing burger, Kinsler probably shouldn’t have done it but come on. If Kinsler played for my team I’d want him to be a bit pissed off, he’s not been playing well and if he is getting booed then yeah he should be annoyed.
I usually agree with your take on things Jose, but here I disagree. I'm someone who thinks that booing your team's players simply for not playing well is generally stupid, but a player reacting by publically shouting at those fans to #### off? That's much, much more stupid and will always be news and a somethingburger.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: May 18, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5843393)
But he flipped his bat,


Not only did he flip it, but it was pretty sweet one.
   11. spivey Posted: May 18, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5843397)
Kinsler has always been a bit gruff. That can play to your advantage when you're a perennial allstar. Less so on this side of your career.
   12. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: May 18, 2019 at 02:37 PM (#5843399)
333/419/759

/Luis Urias

Just sayin'
   13. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 18, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5843407)
But he flipped his bat, so he was just having fun and ‘celebrating,’ and we have to like that or we’re bitter old guys!

This is a bad take, and you should feel bad for having it.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5843416)
meh, it's an overreaction to an opposite overreaction.
   15. Hank Gillette Posted: May 18, 2019 at 06:27 PM (#5843433)
I can’t read lips well, but it seems to me he’s saying “F*** you, f*** all you” as he crossed the plate.


No, he was shouting “Vacuum, vacuum,” because there was dirt on home plate.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:16 PM (#5843441)
It was odd that they signed him for 2 years but it's just $8 M total. The bat had tailed off at ages 35 and 36 so no surprise that it's dropped even more at 37. But DRS still had him as an outstanding defensive 2B at those ages but this year it's got him at -2. bWAR has him down for negative baserunning too so it looks like the legs are finally shot. It's looking like a crappy end to a fine career ... the way fine careers often end.

Those Favorite Toy numbers are nuts. He had under 250 hits at 35-36 combined and he's still more than 500 away from 2500. He needed no decline through age 40 to make 2500. Even the earlier numbers of 13% chance at 3000 after 2016 -- he was turning 35 and was 1300 hits away -- a 13% chance at 6 200(ish)-hit seasons? Methinks Favorite Toy and 3000 hits don't work in the modern game.

Even historically ... through age 34, there have been 173 players with 1600 to 1800 hits ... one of the 173 players made it to 3000 hits and that was Cap Anson who was a long time ago and played until he was 45. The next closest was Omar with 2877 who played to 45, followed by Appling at 2749 who played until 43. Only 10 of the 173 made it to 2500 hits which means that just using the marginal rate, Kinsler's shot at 2500 following 2016 was about 5.8%.
   17. Walt Davis Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:21 PM (#5843442)
Vaguely related, after the worst stretch of hitting imaginable, Chris Davis has hit 273/341/506 with 5 HR in 85 PA. Overall numbers are still atrocious, the K-rate still atrocious and it looks like the good times may already have come to an end (11 Ks in his last 20 PA) but at least he got to be the old Chris Davis for a couple of weeks.
   18. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:59 PM (#5843467)
Baseball is entertainment, or should be.


You may enjoy watching them, but professional athletes are paid to win, not to entertain you.
   19. Hank Gillette Posted: May 19, 2019 at 12:14 AM (#5843511)
You may enjoy watching them, but professional athletes are paid to win, not to entertain you.


I assume the Marlins players are not getting paid, then?
   20. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 19, 2019 at 01:02 AM (#5843515)
You may enjoy watching them, but professional athletes are paid to win, not to entertain you.

Yes and no.

The ability of MLB to generate revenue is based on their ability to entertain people, and make them spend their money and time (watching ads) in exchange for it.

If MLB dropped in popularity by half, MLB players would end up getting paid a lot less. Obviously it wouldn't happen overnight, but the salary adjustment would happen.

So if players are winning, but playing unattractive baseball, it could shrink the pie enough, that they end up getting paid less, than if they were losing, but playing more entertaining baseball.
   21. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 19, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5843532)
So if players are winning, but playing unattractive baseball, it could shrink the pie enough, that they end up getting paid less, than if they were losing, but playing more entertaining baseball.


And what exactly is 'unattractive' and 'entertaining' baseball? And before you think too hard about that, remember that 'sports hate' is a real thing. Kinsler yelling \"#### you" to the crowd is going to drop ticket sales by zero. People love to go to games just to boo and yell at players.
   22. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:04 PM (#5843610)
Kinsler yelling \"#### you" to the crowd is going to drop ticket sales by zero.

Oh, I agree with that. My point wasn't coming from the "get off my lawn" point of view. I have no issue with batflips, and players looking like they are having fun, or caring, or whatever people are kvetching about.

I was just pushing back against the the idea, that lass entertainment could not possibly mean less money. And mostly I was thinking about pitchers taking approximately 3 minutes between each pitch.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:24 PM (#5843614)
"unattractive baseball" -- baseball different than when (person) was 14 (give or take)
"entertaining baseball" -- baseball like when (person) was 14
   24. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:30 PM (#5843615)
Jokes on you, I wasn't watching baseball when I was 14.
   25. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: May 20, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5844004)
Kinsler yelling \"#### you" to the crowd is going to drop ticket sales by zero.

Actually, he said fuddle duddle.
   26. phredbird Posted: May 20, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5844052)

wait, i thought the age when baseball was at its best was at age 12.

an age when you begin to obsess over the game and before girls start messing with your body chemistry.

at least that's what happened for me.
   27. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 20, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5844053)
Trade Kinsler to the Yankees tomorrow, and after LeMahieu breaks a leg he'll turn into a .400 hitter. Just you watch.
   28. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 20, 2019 at 11:00 PM (#5844061)
You may enjoy watching them, but professional athletes are paid to win, not to entertain you.


I guess they should stop signing autographs for kids at the ballpark. Stop tossing balls into the stands. Curtain calls? F that. They're not paid to entertain you.
   29. Zonk is Back Where He Came From in a Safe Space Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:25 AM (#5844128)
Seems like it's a pity that we'll never see a Tim Anderson/Ian Kinsler keystone combination.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5844137)
"unattractive baseball" -- baseball different than when (person) was 14 (give or take)
"entertaining baseball" -- baseball like when (person) was 14


That's silly Walt. Do you really think increasing the average time of games by 40 minutes, with no increase (actually a decrease) in action doesn't make the game less entertaining?

Let's do a thought experiment. The average Hollywood movie is probably 2 hours, max is 3 for your epics. Lets say all the actors decided they were much better at delivering their lines if they paused an extra 15 seconds before saying them. Now the exact same movie takes 3-4 hours. That wouldn't reduce your enjoyment?

That's exactly what has happened in baseball over the last 40 years.

If I were to pick a style of baseball that I'd like to see, I think I'd go with the 1930s. Low K, high average, moderate HR, lots of scoring.
   31. formerly dp Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:59 AM (#5844141)
Trade Kinsler to the Yankees tomorrow, and after LeMahieu breaks a leg he'll turn into a .400 hitter. Just you watch.

It's #### you because it's true.

The Yankees made Gio into a .350 hitter. I can't ####### even with this season.
   32. Rusty Priske Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5844166)
You may enjoy watching them, but professional athletes are paid to win, not to entertain you.


This is quite literally untrue.
   33. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5844177)
I guess they should stop signing autographs for kids at the ballpark. Stop tossing balls into the stands. Curtain calls? F that. They're not paid to entertain you.


The next time a team pays a player MORE because he is a fan favorite you let me know. Players toss balls into stands or sign autographs because they are nice people and they want to be liked. Or they sign autographs for money, or because the team makes them, whatever the case may be, if a player sucks, he's not going to get paid. And the better you are, the more you can be an #######.

Which is why Kinsler is odd - he sucks, why did the Padres sign him for two years?


Two sports examples:
the Patriots, wildly successful, also ruthless with their players, they operate 100% under the mantra 'get rid of a guy too soon, rather than too late'
the Rays - maybe one of the reasons no one goes to watch their games is because they get rid of players as soon as they get expensive. Unless the Rays can get a player to sign a very team friendly contract they are gone. When was the last time they signed one of their own free agents? Certainly seems like the Rays realize they can make more money by being cheap rather than trying to build a fan friendly team base.

   34. Booey Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5844203)
"unattractive baseball" -- baseball different than when (person) was 14 (give or take)
"entertaining baseball" -- baseball like when (person) was 14


Eh, I'm with snapper on this one. I've personally always felt like the perfect level of offense was the 1950's NL, which took place 20+ years before I was born. The big stars like Aaron, Mays, F. Robinson, Banks, Mathews, Snider, etc could hit .320 with 45 homers and 130 rbi, but no one else could. IMO, that's the perfect balance between the late 90's/early 2000's when complete rando's like Richard Hidalgo were doing it, and the 1980's, when no one could do it and guys were leading the league with 36 homers, 109 rbi, .545 slg, etc.

But yeah, a return to the 1920's and 30's - when scoring was historically high but fueled more by .370 averages than 40 homer seasons - would be super fun, too.
   35. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5844242)
Eh, I'm with snapper on this one. I've personally always felt like the perfect level of offense was the 1950's NL, which took place 20+ years before I was born. The big stars like Aaron, Mays, F. Robinson, Banks, Mathews, Snider, etc could hit .320 with 45 homers and 130 rbi, but no one else could. IMO, that's the perfect balance between the late 90's/early 2000's when complete rando's like Richard Hidalgo were doing it, and the 1980's, when no one could do it and guys were leading the league with 36 homers, 109 rbi, .545 slg, etc.

But yeah, a return to the 1920's and 30's - when scoring was historically high but fueled more by .370 averages than 40 homer seasons - would be super fun, too.


Personally in spite of the things I don't like, mainly the stalling between pitches and the insane ticket prices for "premium" games, I like baseball today much more than the game I grew up with in the 50's and early 60's.

Why? More competitive balance**, much more overall athleticism, a far greater number of stars and superstars (per team, not just total), more international diversity, and infinitely more exposure afforded by various viewing packages.

** Teams like the Orioles can have historically bad seasons, but in the 40's and 50's the Senators, Browns/Orioles, A's, Cubs, and Pirates were like that every goddam year, while one city's teams at one point made up 16 out of the possible 20 World Series competitors.

And the 30's???? The decade when 9 of 10 AL pennant races were won by 7 or more games, and 5 of them were won by margins of 13 to 19.5 games, with not even a set of steak knives for the runnersup?

Oh, and if you were a fan in Atlanta or Dallas or Los Angeles? Enjoy your minor league teams!
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5844245)
Why? More competitive balance**, much more overall athleticism, a far greater number of stars and superstars (per team, not just total), more international diversity, and infinitely more exposure afforded by various viewing packages.

We're talking about style of play, not league economic structure.

And how can there be more stars and superstars per team? That's just cheapening the definition then.
   37. Booey Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5844259)
We're talking about style of play, not league economic structure.


This. Obviously the game is better now in many other ways (the color barrier itself makes every decade after the 1940's better than every decade before)...but that doesn't necessarily make it a more exciting style to watch (or the stats to follow). I like record chases - or at least the possibility of them - and the current trends seem to make just about every single season record - and probably every career record too except possibly HR's - unattainable (and no, batter K's doesn't count!).
   38. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:40 PM (#5844316)
We're talking about style of play, not league economic structure.

I'm not sure how you can separate the factors I mentioned from the style of play. The reason you had a few dominant players in the 50's, especially in the AL, was that most of the competition was so easy to dominate. And it was so much easier to dominate because the talent pool was so much smaller, even factoring in the smaller number of teams. I'd bet at least half the players in the average AL starting lineup of that decade would be lucky to fill the last bench spot on any MLB team of today. They'd simply be blown away by the pitching and they wouldn't have the power to make up for it when they did manage to make contact.

In batting, the greater talent pool shows up in home run threats extending further down in the lineup than ever before. Combined with modern analytics that favor swinging for the fences over putting the ball in play as a way to maximize run production, that means that pitchers have to concentrate far more on the bottom half of the lineup than they ever had to do when some teams had but one, or even no home run threats. Which in turn extends the game times.

And in pitching, the greater talent pool means that you've got more pitchers capable of throwing in the 95 on up range. That in turn leads to (1) more strikeouts, and (2) more use of relief pitchers, since starters can't pace themselves as easily as they could when the lineups had more holes in them. This also leads to longer game times.

The truth is that the style of play in the 30's (high averages, lots of runs, few strikeouts) mostly came from not having many pitchers capable of striking out many hitters. Bob Feller was the exception that not only proved the rule, but proved just how serious heat could alter the way the game was played. But Feller could afford to pace himself in a way he couldn't possibly do today.

You can't do much to reduce the number of power hitters or power pitchers, but you can do things like strictly (and I mean strictly) enforce the clock between pitches. But beyond that, I watched way too many AL games in the 50's and 60's to think that the fewer number of strikeouts made up for the abysmal lack of overall talent. And in fielding, it would've taken a year's worth of highlight plays to equal what you can see in a week's worth of similar or better plays today.

One innovation I do think would help would be if certain strikeout-prone power hitters would be taught to go with the pitch to the opposite field, especially with two strikes, rather than trying to pull everything. People say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but if some team(s) would begin that sort of training for their minor leaguers, I think we'd all be pleased with the results.

   39. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:06 PM (#5844328)
But beyond that, I watched way too many AL games in the 50's and 60's to think that the fewer number of strikeouts made up for the abysmal lack of overall talent. And in fielding, it would've taken a year's worth of highlight plays to equal what you can see in a week's worth of similar or better plays today.


On the other hand most of the highlight plays aren't highlight plays anymore. They are routine.

Is there anything we can do to encourage more fielding errors? Lower level baseball is more exciting because you don't know exactly what's going to happen when the ball is put into play.
   40. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5844343)
But beyond that, I watched way too many AL games in the 50's and 60's to think that the fewer number of strikeouts made up for the abysmal lack of overall talent. And in fielding, it would've taken a year's worth of highlight plays to equal what you can see in a week's worth of similar or better plays today.

On the other hand most of the highlight plays aren't highlight plays anymore. They are routine.


Perhaps so, but all that means is that the bar has been raised. The sort of stretch/grab/pivot/jump/throw that many infielders make today were almost literally unheard of in the 50's and 60's.** Neither the athleticism required for the first part of those plays nor the arm strength required to get the throw to first on time part of any third baseman's or shortstop's repertory. Hell, how many shortstops today can't execute the sort of Jeter jump throw highlight play of 20 years ago, only with a much better throw to first?

Is there anything we can do to encourage more fielding errors? Lower level baseball is more exciting because you don't know exactly what's going to happen when the ball is put into play.

There are currently 256 minor league teams that would be happy to have you pay them a visit.

** Great as Brooks Robinson was, and he's one of my all time favorite players, he didn't have the arm strength of a Machado or an Urshela. Many of those bang-bang outs he assisted BITD would've been beaten out by many of today's runners.

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