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Thursday, March 21, 2013

If Jeff Suppan doesn’t latch on anyplace he may run for Congress

Sure, Jeff Suppan would listen if John Boehner called.

Colusa County Supervisor Kim Vann is likely to challenge Rep. John Garamendi in the Sacramento-area 3rd District. Former state Sen. Tony Strickland is expected to run again, most likely forging a rematch with freshman Rep. Julia Brownley in the Ventura County-based 26th District.

There’s some talk that Strickland would take a look at the neighboring 25th District if GOP Rep. Howard “Buck” McKeon opts for retirement. One plugged-in GOP source said another person looking at a challenge to Brownley is baseball pitcher Jeff Suppan, who may run if he doesn’t make a Major League roster this season.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 01:48 PM | 158 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: congress, jeff suppan, padres, politics, republicans

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   1. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4393796)
If elected, Suppan would dramatically boost the GOP's fortunes in the annual Congressional Baseball Game.
   2. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4393800)
Jeff Suppan was one of those ######## who cut a commercial opposing stem cell research (think of those poor undifferentiated cells! which were saved from being used for research into a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. ... and instead were disposed of as medical waste!), so without knowing anything about his actual politics, I think he'd make a pretty terrible elected official, and I'd vote for just about anybody instead of him.

Also, I hope he dies in a fire.
   3. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4393801)
Jeff Suppan was one of those ######## who cut a commercial opposing stem cell research (think of those poor undifferentiated cells! which were saved from being used for research into a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. ... and instead were disposed of as medical waste!), so without knowing anything about his actual politics, I think he'd make a pretty terrible elected official, and I'd vote for just about anybody instead of him.


He'll win Colusa County in a landslide.
   4. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4393802)
Are there enough MLB owners opposed to Suppan's politics to make this an effective threat?
   5. akrasian Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4393809)
What qualifications does he actually have? He's a high school graduate, I guess. He co-owns a restaurant, but apparently his wife actually runs it, so he can't really say he has extensive business experience. I don't think somebody has to have been a politician at a lower level to run for congress, but certainly some sort of experience that is relevant would seem to be required. Throwing a baseball harder and more accurately than most could doesn't seem to be the right sort of experience, leaving his politics out of it.
   6. Bhaakon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4393813)
What qualifications does he actually have?


In California, the only qualifications are holding extremist views to one side of the spectrum or the other and refusing to compromise.
   7. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:12 PM (#4393818)
What qualifications does he actually have?

If he's running in a GOP primary, all he needs is plenty of money (check), a certain amount of name recognition (check) and the willingness to pander to the ODS crowd. From what Vlad says, it seems as if he's a mortal lock if he goes for it. Whether he wins in the general election depends on the demographics of the district and how much he can avoid sounding like a caveman around women. (EDIT: coke to Bhaakon)
   8. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:26 PM (#4393820)
What qualifications does he actually have?


What qualifications do most of those idiots actually have?
   9. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:34 PM (#4393829)
What qualifications does he actually have?

What qualifications do you need to be in Congress?
   10. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:38 PM (#4393832)
What qualifications does he actually have?

He breaths and he's a believer. For about half the country, everything else is in the noise.
   11. zonk Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4393835)
If elected, Suppan would dramatically boost the GOP's fortunes in the annual Congressional Baseball Game.


So wait... there are two Jeff Suppans?

I would think this good one that I've apparently not heard of would be able to find a job...
   12. sinicalypse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4393836)
What qualifications does he actually have? He's a high school graduate, I guess. He co-owns a restaurant, but apparently his wife actually runs it, so he can't really say he has extensive business experience.


The concept of running a state/country as a business strikes me as odd. What exactly is the state/country in the business of? I reckon the allure of having business experience b4 running for office comes from the assumption that running a business requires some sort of management skills that would translate over to the public arena, but still, the idea of a country existing to be profitable is just errrgh. Then again, at this juncture in time and space not much really surprises me anymore.
   13. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:52 PM (#4393840)
The concept of running a state/country as a business strikes me as odd.


A country that was actually run like a business would relocate everybody in Montana and North and South Dakota to more populous states, because it's not worth it to try and support the infrastructure for such a small population base. It'd also surrender immediately if invaded by a major power like China or Russia, because the financial cost of resisting would be too high.
   14. Jim Wisinski Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:07 PM (#4393845)
So the French are just believers in good business!
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:09 PM (#4393849)
What qualifications does he actually have?


He didn't go to law school, so there is a possibility he's still a human being.
   16. Dag Nabbit: secretary of the World Banana Forum Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4393852)
He'll win Colusa County in a landslide.

The article says he's considering running at the freshman Dem in the 26th district, which is well south of Colusa County.
   17. Swedish Chef Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4393854)
It'd also surrender immediately if invaded by a major power like China or Russia, because the financial cost of resisting would be too high.

It's expensive to be on the defensive, which is why the country run as a business would launch their hostile takeover first.
   18. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4393856)
The article says he's considering running at the freshman Dem in the 26th district, which is well south of Colusa County.


He'd do better if he carpetbagged-it to Colusa County, then.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:28 PM (#4393860)
Jeff Suppan was one of those ######## who cut a commercial opposing stem cell research (think of those poor undifferentiated cells! which were saved from being used for research into a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. ... and instead were disposed of as medical waste!)

You do realize that fetal stem cell research has turned out to be a complete dead-end, while adult stem cell research is producing great results?

Funding fetal stem cell research is a bad idea before you even touch any moral issues.
   20. Gonfalon B. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4393864)
Jeff Suppan was one of those ######## who cut a commercial opposing stem cell research (think of those poor undifferentiated cells! which were saved from being used for research into a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. ... and instead were disposed of as medical waste!), so without knowing anything about his actual politics, I think he'd make a pretty terrible elected official, and I'd vote for just about anybody instead of him.

If science needs a steady supply of genetic material to work with, can't they just periodically scrape Derek Jeter's comforter?
   21. Gonfalon B. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:46 PM (#4393867)
You do realize that fetal stem cell research has turned out to be a complete dead-end?

Yeah... not so much. Not so much.
   22. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:21 PM (#4393879)
He breaths and he's a believer. For about half the country, everything else is in the noise.

I always love it when a post that calls millions of people idiots contains a sixth grade level spelling mistake.
   23. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:35 PM (#4393887)
He breaths and he's a believer. For about half the country, everything else is in the noise.

I always love it when a post that calls millions of people idiots contains a sixth grade level spelling mistake.


Oh no! I've misspelled something! This is going on my permanent record for sure!

Damn you Joey for pointing it out, I almost got away with it.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4393888)

Yeah... not so much. Not so much.


Adult Stem Cell Research Leaving Embryos Behind


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-6735628.html

Adult stem cells are far ahead, and being tested in actual human treatments. And don't pose any moral questions, so win-win.

And, I'm not going to get into this b/c we'll just end up in the abortion quagmire.
   25. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4393890)
And why haven't we seen YOUR birth certificate, Robert in Manhattan Beach?
   26. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4393895)
And why haven't we seen YOUR birth certificate, Robert in Manhattan Beach?

He must've stashed it inside his red diaper.
   27. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:49 PM (#4393898)
What does "ODS crowd" mean? That's a new one to me.
   28. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:57 PM (#4393904)
Obama Derangement Syndrome
   29. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4393907)
Thanks. I usually just say "morons" but a good synonym is always useful.

   30. Paul Antonissen Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:19 PM (#4393920)
Adult stem cells are far ahead,


So what? We should stop all research into embryonic stem cell research because the adult stem cells are pretty effective now? Is that your real stance?
   31. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:30 PM (#4393924)

So what? We should stop all research into embryonic stem cell research because the adult stem cells are pretty effective now? Is that your real stance?


At least he and Suppan are on the same page.
   32. Roger Cedeno's Spleen Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:09 PM (#4393944)
So... Game 7 of the 2004 NLCS and he's some kind of hillbilly fascist? I really need to take him off my Christmas card list...
   33. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4393947)
Forbes 2/12/2013 :
One of the virtues of adult stem cell research, so the story goes, is that it does not suffer either the ethical concerns or scientific problems involved in embryonic stem cell research.
...
But as Paul Knoepfler notes, recent research suggests adult stem cells should be viewed with more caution.
...
But they do illustrate, said Knoepfler, “why patient follow up, which for-profit clinics so often fail to do, is so critically important and should last years if not decades.”
There's no reason to abandon any avenues of research unnecessarily.
   34. Squash Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:23 PM (#4393952)
What qualifications do you need to be in Congress?

Without checking, I believe you need to be 25 years old (or is it 35 - or is that President/Senate?) and not have a felony on your record - naturally you can commit as many felonies as you want once you're elected, in fact you're encouraged to, particularly of the graft/war crimes variety. You don't have to be born in Amurica as I recall, that's only President, which obviously disavows Obama as he is a black commie fascist from Kenya/North Korea. I will now check wikipedia and see how well 7th grade government classes hold up.
   35. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:35 PM (#4393958)
It's 25. 30 for the Senate, 35 for President. Is the felony thing the law or just a practical limitation that you could overcome with the right hair and support for gun rights?
   36. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:44 PM (#4393964)
There's no reason to abandon any avenues of research unnecessarily.

If you are someone believe that believes human life begins at conception and that life is sufficient to be protected as a human, the belief that we should not be using embryonic stem cell lines in research is not just perfectly logical, but a moral imperative, and clearly very necessary.

I do not believe that protectable human life being at conception, so I'm perfectly in favor of embryonic stem cell research and anyone who suspects that I'm lying and am actually in the pro-life camp, a look at the child support thread should quickly disabuse you of that notion.
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4393965)
Adult stem cells are far ahead, and being tested in actual human treatments. And don't pose any moral questions, so win-win.


What kind of functional moral system could hold that it's more ethical to throw fetal stem cells in the garbage with the colostomy bags and dirty syringes than to use them for research to ease the suffering of the helpless and afflicted?

Remember, these aren't even actual embryos that we're talking about here. They have no ability to develop into a human being.
   38. Gonfalon B. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4393986)
Adult Stem Cell Research Leaving Embryos Behind
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-6735628.html
Adult stem cells are far ahead, and being tested in actual human treatments. And don't pose any moral questions, so win-win.
And, I'm not going to get into this b/c we'll just end up in the abortion quagmire.


I'm not interested in the debate, either, but this isn't that. There isn't a moral question involving the science until people start aborting fetuses specifically to procure stem cells. That should happen right after we start beheading people to get their retinas for transplants. People once considered it absolutely and empirically immoral to dissect corpses. The available stem cells can either advance humane needs, or they can fill the garbage dumps.

There are many, many, many promising developments involving embryonic stem cells since the 2010 date of the CBS News article you linked. Never put all your eggs in one basket, not even the eggs that turn into you and me.
   39. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:55 PM (#4394034)
There isn't a moral question involving the science until people start aborting fetuses specifically to procure stem cells.

Of course there is. Just because you and I disagree with the stance of those doesn't make it not a valid moral reason on their part.
   40. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:03 AM (#4394039)
What kind of functional moral system could hold that it's more ethical to throw fetal stem cells in the garbage with the colostomy bags and dirty syringes than to use them for research to ease the suffering of the helpless and afflicted?

Remember, these aren't even actual embryos that we're talking about here. They have no ability to develop into a human being.

As an anti-abortion person myself, I don't get this either. I think the cells are taken from artificially fertilized embryos, which are surplus embryos in a IVF attempt. These embryos are typically not suitable for implantation into a womb supposedly, although I'm not sure exactly why not, but in any case they're deemed less "suitable" than the ones that are actually placed into the woman. Taking the cells from them causes their death, but if they were going to be discarded anyway, I'm not understanding the moral dilemma. Are we supposed to stop IVF too? I don't get it.

If you are someone believe that believes human life begins at conception and that life is sufficient to be protected as a human, the belief that we should not be using embryonic stem cell lines in research is not just perfectly logical, but a moral imperative, and clearly very necessary.

It's not necessary in my mind, because there is no argument that they should be implanted in the woman supposedly. What exactly is the correct procedure according to this "moral imperative"?

There are many, many, many promising developments involving embryonic stem cells since the 2010 date of the CBS News article you linked. Never put all your eggs in one basket, not even the eggs that turn into you and me.

Yes, this seems like an obvious point. I don't get the objection at all, even as an anti-abortion person.

There isn't a moral question involving the science until people start aborting fetuses specifically to procure stem cells.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say there's a moral question if the embryos would otherwise have been implanted into a womb.
   41. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:25 AM (#4394045)
Jeff Suppan was one of those ######## who cut a commercial opposing stem cell research (think of those poor undifferentiated cells! which were saved from being used for research into a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. ... and instead were disposed of as medical waste!), so without knowing anything about his actual politics, I think he'd make a pretty terrible elected official, and I'd vote for just about anybody instead of him.


So, you're saying Suppan is against stem cell research until someone he's close to develops Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's?

What is it with these guys?
   42. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 22, 2013 at 07:36 AM (#4394070)
What is it with these guys?

This is what it is with these guys.
   43. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 08:14 AM (#4394076)
This thread shold have started with an OT tag, 'cause we all knew it was going there.
   44. Morty Causa Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4394095)
That you sad-sacks gnaw with worry about where something might go makes you caricatures. The Stanley Kubrick of Dr. Strangelove or the Joseph Heller of Catch 22 would have a field day with all the peple here on BTF who preen and boast about all the things they are above talking about.
   45. tfbg9 Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:26 AM (#4394103)
Within a decade or two, the secular humanist intelligentsia will fully swallow the repugnant utilitarian bioethical views of Prof. Peter Singer.

And all those who won't will be denounced as "anti-science".
   46. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4394109)
That you sad-sacks gnaw with worry about where something might go makes you caricatures. The Stanley Kubrick of Dr. Strangelove or the Joseph Heller of Catch 22 would have a field day with all the peple here on BTF who preen and boast about all the things they are above talking about.


Because thinking about the future, planning, and working through best and worse case scenarios are for suckers! Real men do, they don't think! Planning is for cowards! Yeah!
   47. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4394116)
This thread should have started with an OT tag, 'cause we all knew it was going there.


From 1999 to 2007, Suppan averaged 204 IP with a 105 ERA+. For a long while there he was a solid #3/#4 starter. We forget that because he's been crappy for a few years, and also because his peak coincided with the peak of the sillyball era. He played in Kansas City during the days in which the stadium was playing like Coors Field East, and so even though he was a pretty good pitcher there (105 ERA+) he had a 4.73 ERA in KC. So he always seemed worse than he was.

Obviously he was never a world beater, but Suppan had a nice little career there.


   48. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4394124)
As an anti-abortion person myself, I don't get this either. I think the cells are taken from artificially fertilized embryos, which are surplus embryos in a IVF attempt. These embryos are typically not suitable for implantation into a womb supposedly, although I'm not sure exactly why not, but in any case they're deemed less "suitable" than the ones that are actually placed into the woman. Taking the cells from them causes their death, but if they were going to be discarded anyway, I'm not understanding the moral dilemma. Are we supposed to stop IVF too? I don't get it.


There are two primary factors - number of cells and the shape of the cells. Embryos develop at different rates, so after 3 days one embryo could be 8-cell and another could be 3-cell. That 8-cell could be all wonky though, so maybe a 6-cell with nice shapely curves is a better fit for implantation. Typically only 1 or 2 embryos will be implanted, but with IVF the goal is to get upwards of 20 eggs harvested from the mother-to-be. Of those not all will fertilize, and after the 1 or 2 are selected any other viable embryos can be frozen to be used at a later date. There can easily be 10 or so poorly developed embryos that will just be tossed out after one IVF procedure. No clue why someone would oppose research on those.

The Bush era stem-cell related funding cuts definitely put a hurting on research into embryo development and implantation techniques.
   49. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4394125)
What kind of functional moral system could hold that it's more ethical to throw fetal stem cells in the garbage with the colostomy bags and dirty syringes than to use them for research to ease the suffering of the helpless and afflicted?

Remember, these aren't even actual embryos that we're talking about here. They have no ability to develop into a human being.


The same moral system that says we don't use dead humans as food for animals, b/c hey, they're dead, why waste the meat.
   50. Greg K Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:53 AM (#4394127)
That you sad-sacks gnaw with worry about where something might go makes you caricatures. The Stanley Kubrick of Dr. Strangelove or the Joseph Heller of Catch 22 would have a field day with all the peple here on BTF who preen and boast about all the things they are above talking about.

I'm not sure Bitter Mouse is "above" talking politics (isn't he one of the more prolific posters in politics threads?). I think he's just referencing the ongoing project the administrators have of creating separate venues to discuss politics and baseball, which seems like a sane policy.
   51. Greg K Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4394129)
The same moral system that says we don't use dead humans as food for animals

Take it to the cat thread!
   52. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:58 AM (#4394132)
I'm not sure Bitter Mouse is "above" talking politics (isn't he one of the more prolific posters in politics threads?). I think he's just referencing the ongoing project the administrators have of creating separate venues to discuss politics and baseball, which seems like a sane policy.


Wait is that what Morty was talking about? I totally misread his post then. I thought he was referencing the stem cell debate and worrying about where that was going.

Darn, I never know what that guy is talking about - even when I am sure he is wrong :). But if he is talking about going OT versus normal baseball talk, then well I would rewrite my scorn in a new direction, but I am too lazy. But yeah Greg is right on, so now I don't have to bother.

WHat ever happened to the site redesign? I am OK either way, I just have not heard anythign about it in a while.
   53. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4394148)
Adult stem cells are far ahead, and being tested in actual human treatments. And don't pose any moral questions, so win-win.


I'm at a major neural research lab today interviewing for a position overseeing 2 separate FDA applications for embryonic-derived stem cell therapies.
   54. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4394150)
The same moral system that says we don't use dead humans as food for animals, b/c hey, they're dead, why waste the meat.

Except the discarded embryos aren't disposed of with any great respect, and aren't past, present or future human beings.
   55. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4394151)
I think he's just referencing the ongoing project the administrators have of creating separate venues to discuss politics and baseball, which seems like a sane policy.
The stench of fear is strong in this one.
   56. Morty Causa Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4394152)
Because thinking about the future, planning, and working through best and worse case scenarios are for suckers! Real men do, they don't think! Planning is for cowards! Yeah!


Yeah, that's what you do--engage, or encourage--discussion about all possibilities.
   57. Morty Causa Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4394157)
Darn, I never know what that guy is talking about - even when I am sure he is wrong :).


Well, darn, gee whiz, jiminy gee willikers, that's because you want to retain your hymen--or insist you can and still be credited as an experienced serious thinker.
   58. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4394159)
Except the discarded embryos aren't disposed of with any great respect,

That's wrong.

and aren't past, present or future human beings.

That's a matter of debate.

I don't know why they can't just enact regulations so that they only fertilize as many eggs as they intend to implant.
   59. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4394160)
I'm at a major neural research lab today interviewing for a position overseeing 2 separate FDA applications for embryonic-derived stem cell therapies.

Bully for you.
   60. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4394166)
I don't know why they can't just enact regulations so that they only fertilize as many eggs as they intend to implant.


Every sperm is sacred?

I'm at a major neural research lab today interviewing for a position overseeing 2 separate FDA applications for embryonic-derived stem cell therapies.

Bully for you.


Would you like me to pass along your expert opinion on the topic?
   61. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4394175)
I have told my children (and ex) to do whatever with my mortal remains (since I am done with them), and then have come up with some pretty funny and gruesome (many of which are illegal I am sure) ideas - so I am not sure I am a go to source for how to treat human remains (and related meat) with respect.

Morty - As for #57 I am often grateful your word salad is gibberish to me, I suspect this is one such case.
   62. BDC Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4394190)
But Soylent Green is people.
   63. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4394196)
But Soylent Green is people.


Yum?
   64. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM (#4394204)
The same moral system that says we don't use dead humans as food for animals, b/c hey, they're dead, why waste the meat.
i am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
   65. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4394214)
I don't know why they can't just enact regulations so that they only fertilize as many eggs as they intend to implant.


I am going to take a random guess and assume you haven't gone through an IVF procedure. The reason regulations like that cannot be enacted is because every fertilized egg does not develop correctly, which is nothing on the fact that not every egg actually fertilizes. Trust me on this one - what you are suggesting is never, ever going to happen.

Nothing like getting a call saying of the 14 eggs harvested every single one failed to fertilize. Eggs which your wife just went through a very emotionally draining and hormonally ###### up 6 weeks or so to produce, after years of failing to become pregnant through other methods. Awesome feeling.
   66. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4394238)
I intend to be dropped, whole and frozen, from a helicopter hovering over an active volcano.
   67. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4394279)
I intend to be dropped, whole and frozen, from a helicopter hovering over an active volcano.
Before dying or after? I've found that it's important to be specific with these types of requests.
   68. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4394289)
That occurred to me as well, but I presume the "frozen" part implies death. I could be wrong, though.
   69. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4394291)
Either is fine, but not before I'm forty-one years and seventy-three and 1/4 days old.
   70. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4394293)
That occurred to me as well, but I presume the "frozen" part implies death. I could be wrong, though.


In a few decades, I'm not sure that implication is going to be accurate :)

or if you happened to be injected with the Super Soldier Serum.
   71. Hack Wilson Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4394299)
I am planning on stealing a spaceship and flying into the sun and burning up. But with my luck it will be night when I get there and I'll be fine. (No I'm not Polish.)
   72. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4394305)
or if you happened to be injected with the Super Soldier Serum.


I am excited for the next Cap movie. The first one was great for this fanboy.
   73. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4394308)
or if you happened to be injected with the Super Soldier Serum.


Not that being dropped frozen into an active volcano would even put a crimp in Cap's day, of course.
   74. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4394310)
I am excited for the next Cap movie. The first one was great for this fanboy.
I thought it was fun. Not great. I dug Avengers, and am maybe the only person alive who enjoyed the Hulk films. But I went into the with low expectations, and was unbothered by the CGI.
   75. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4394315)
I am excited for the next Cap movie. The first one was great for this fanboy.


Not a fan of superhero movies based on established characters (as opposed to things like Special, Super, The Specials, etc.), but I made an exception & rented the Cap flick based not only on my high regard for the character but also for the presence of the Howling Commandos (minus, alas, Sgt. Fury ... can't have everything, I guess). I liked it a lot.
   76. Srul Itza Posted: March 22, 2013 at 01:04 PM (#4394329)
I liked the Cap movie, but it seemed like just a pre-quel for the Avengers flick.
   77. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4394353)
The same moral system that says we don't use dead humans as food for animals, b/c hey, they're dead, why waste the meat.


In life-or-death situations, like this one, taboos about that sort of stuff go out the window. Here is a response by the late Father Stephen F. Torraco, a professor at Assumption College, to a question about the morality of cannibalism, in which he concluded that in "the extreme case of the danger of death" it was "a morally justified measure", so long as the individuals to be consumed "die of natural causes and are not murdered for the sake of consuming them". So why should it be different with people who face imminent death from Parkinson's or Huntington's Chorea, rather than starvation? Why would you oppose something like this and not, say, infant organ donation?

Except the discarded embryos aren't disposed of with any great respect,

That's wrong.


They're treated as medical waste. Which means that the majority of them are piled into boxes or bins with other typed of medical waste (amputated tissue, contaminated gauze and bandages, used syringes, etc.) and taken to an incinerator, where the melange of items is placed on a conveyor belt and burned. The energy from combustion is sometimes used to generate electricity. Anything that's left after that is considered to be sterile (though some places also apply chemical treatments), so it can be transported to a landfill and buried with normal garbage.

I'm not sure about you, but I wouldn't consider that treatment to be particularly respectful, if we were talking about the corpse of an actual human being.
   78. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4394371)
I am excited for the next Cap movie. The first one was great for this fanboy.


Major Captain America fan here (Have every Cap comic since 1985). The first one was OK, I just wish that the comic book companies would get away from origin stories, there is no more need for them than there is for origin stories for a Die Hard movie. If the origin story is particularly good, then I can see wasting 30 minutes of the film to get it out there, but for something as simple as Cap's origin, a 5 minute flashback in middle of the movie is good enough.

I am excited for the next movie also.

I thought it was fun. Not great. I dug Avengers, and am maybe the only person alive who enjoyed the Hulk films. But I went into the with low expectations, and was unbothered by the CGI.

The Avengers showed that the Hulk could work in a movie, if they would just not waste their time with the plodding story and go and have fun with this creature. He's Jeckyll and Hyde, we get it... Now show him smashing stuff, and make sure it's an unambivalent badguy.


Not a fan of superhero movies based on established characters (as opposed to things like Special, Super, The Specials, etc.), but I made an exception & rented the Cap flick based not only on my high regard for the character but also for the presence of the Howling Commandos (minus, alas, Sgt. Fury ... can't have everything, I guess). I liked it a lot.


Once the movie got going, I was very happy with it. I was even happy with the origin story, I just thought that it cut into the ability of the movie to show Cap at his greatest.
   79. akrasian Posted: March 22, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4394380)
I'm not sure about you, but I wouldn't consider that treatment to be particularly respectful, if we were talking about the corpse of an actual human being.

All I know about respectful treatment, I learned from this.
   80. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4394384)
Have every Cap comic since 1985


My run starts with #216, so ...1977. Though I have the first 15 issues or so of the 2004 Brubaker series (which I found intriguingly overrated, & of course don't get me started on the Winter Soldier nonsense) in collected form only.
   81. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4394388)
But Soylent Green is people.

SPOILER ALERT!!
   82. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4394392)
I just wish that the comic book companies would get away from origin stories, there is no more need for them than there is for origin stories for a Die Hard movie.


This. a 1000 times this. Why does anyone need to see a Batman or Spider-man origin story? Gak. Just have a great movie. Origin stories are mostly crap, and worse crap I already know.

Agreed on the Hulk bits also.
   83. Gonfalon B. Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4394430)
The Stanley Kubrick of Dr. Strangelove or the Joseph Heller of Catch 22 would have a field day with all the peple here on BTF who preen and boast about all the things they are above talking about.

Purity Of Embryos.
   84. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4394445)
My run starts with #216, so ...1977. Though I have the first 15 issues or so of the 2004 Brubaker series (which I found intriguingly overrated, & of course don't get me started on the Winter Soldier nonsense) in collected form only.


Now I'm jealous. I have about 20 or so issues in between 170-295, and even have a tattered copy of a 100(along with a dvd with every issue of tales of suspense until Death of Captain america) but I would love to fill out as much of my collection as possible.

   85. Morty Causa Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4394460)
Purity Of Embryos.


Placenta of precious bodily posters.
   86. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 22, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4394462)
speaking as a brewer fan and working to set aside my disdain for suppan for his time with the brewers he always struck me as a bit of a dunderhead when i heard him speak

but that's just me
   87. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 22, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4394488)
Why does anyone need to see a Batman or Spider-man origin story? Gak. Just have a great movie. Origin stories are mostly crap, and worse crap I already know.
Origin stories are great, and most people aren't fanboys. I'm also annoyed by how often franchises get rebooted, but I understand.
   88. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4394505)
Origin stories are great, and most people aren't fanboys. I'm also annoyed by how often franchises get rebooted, but I understand.


They aren't necessary though. You don't have an origin story for John McLane or James Bond or Indiana Jones. You don't have an origin story for any cop action movie out there. Heck Lord of the Rings origin story came out after the three movies. There is no reason to have an origin story for any action movie ever. Most genres get that. But because "people aren't fanboys" they see a need to create an origin story at the cost of a better movie. Why? If the franchise is successful, you can always create a prequel to go into the origin deeper, but for the most part it isn't necessary, it's a waste of an hour, it necessitates tangled plotlines (villain's origin almost has to be linked to the main character or else there isn't time to develop their character)

Darth Vader was a great character long before he ever had his origin story told. Han Solo still doesn't have an on screen origin story. Martin Riggs origin was told quickly (his wife died, he cracked and doesn't know if he wants to live) and the Lethal Weapon movies were pretty good. Science Fiction movies, action movies, historical action movies all understand that the origin story is not necessary for the characters. It's perfectly ok for them to be fully formed at the start of the movie and provide only enough of an origin as it takes to relate to the characters. Why does comic book movies have to be different?

Again, if the origin is good and the script can make it work well, go for it, if not, ignore it and start the story you want to tell, and assume the audience can keep up with necessary flashbacks. If you can't come up with a good origin story for Wonder Woman that you think will work, forget it. Start it out with her already being an established super hero, with an established group of villains and tell the story you want to tell.

   89. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4394516)
You don't have an origin story for John McLane or James Bond or Indiana Jones.


We saw an origin story for Indiana Jones, but they did it the right way: In a quick five-minute sketch at the start of the third movie. Enough to get anyone who wasn't familiar with the franchise up to speed, but not long enough to bog down or overstay its welcome.
   90. SoSH U at work Posted: March 22, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4394529)
Major Captain America fan here (Have every Cap comic since 1985). The first one was OK, I just wish that the comic book companies would get away from origin stories, there is no more need for them than there is for origin stories for a Die Hard movie. If the origin story is particularly good, then I can see wasting 30 minutes of the film to get it out there, but for something as simple as Cap's origin, a 5 minute flashback in middle of the movie is good enough.


I enjoyed Captain America quite a bit when I took the family to see it. I had no idea what the origins of the story were, because the only comic I ever read was Archie. Though I can't say for sure, I suspect I would have enjoyed the film far less if it had just plopped down in the middle of some Cap'n adventure.
   91. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: March 22, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4394574)
I think the importance of an origin story increases significantly when the protagonist has superpowers and wears a costume. Characters like McLane or Bond or Jones (or countless other examples like the samurai in Yojimbo or the man with no name in the Sergio Leone films, etc.) have exceptional talents but they all involve doing otherwise ordinary things extraordinarily well. When the hero is running around doing impossible things, I think the audience quite naturally wants to know how he or she came about these powers and why he or she chooses to exercise them while wearing a silly uniform.

I had a passing familiarity with Captain America comics as a kid but think I would have been disappointed if the movie (which I enjoyed a great deal) had simply introduced him as a super-strong guy with a shield and taken it from there.
   92. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4394577)
Captain America is borderline, but surely everyone going to the movie knows the origin story for batman, spider-man, super man and so on. AT least enough do.

Unbreakable was a good super hero origin story.
   93. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4394579)
surely everyone going to the movie knows the origin story for batman, spider-man, super man and so on.


Except, of course, that they get changed every few years, don't they?

I have no idea what Superman's origin is now. I know it's been tinkered with seemingly incessantly for quite awhile.
   94. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 22, 2013 at 05:47 PM (#4394596)
When the hero is running around doing impossible things, I think the audience quite naturally wants to know how he or she came about these powers and why he or she chooses to exercise them while wearing a silly uniform.
This exactly. Batman and Spiderman don't need another origin movie for a long time because they're well past saturation point. That's not the case with Captain America or Iron Man or (ugh) Green Lantern. I'm looking forward to the Antman origin movie.

One thing that a good origin movie does do is redraw the lines for a franchise going forward. Daniel Craig's 007 would have seemed very out-of-place in Roger Moore's 007 universe. A new origin story allows the character to come in fresh, with newly defined boundaries, in a newly redrawn, up-to-date universe. Superman's origin story never needs to be retold again, but the 1978 origin movie was one of the great ones of all time, and set the stage for an even better sequel. Batman Begins didn't tell a new story, but it was still a damn good story, and set up that particular Batman team for a story arc specific to that Batman, that director, in that tone. The problem today isn't that there are origin movies, but that there are so many, and they're rebooting universes too soon.
   95. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: March 22, 2013 at 06:44 PM (#4394618)
Oh noes! Brother Suppan believes the wrong things!

Let the Three Minutes Hundred Posts of Hate begin!
   96. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 22, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4394623)
"We are here at the Jeff Suppan thread, where we've secretly replaced the political material RMc was expecting with Folgers Crystals. Let's see if he can tell the difference!"
   97. cardsfanboy Posted: March 23, 2013 at 12:25 AM (#4394814)
I have no idea what Superman's origin is now. I know it's been tinkered with seemingly incessantly for quite awhile.


Not really.

Most iconic superheroes origins are always going to be the same. (it's the details that are different. an not really germane to the discussion)

Superman: Born on Krypton, planet dying, ejected to earth, raised by farmers in Smallville Kansas.
Batman: parents are killed going to the movies in which the hero witness their murders.
Spiderman: Granted superhuman abilities due to an altered spider bite. Uncle Ben Dies. "with great power comes great responsibility".
Captain America: 4F patriot who wants to join the fight no matter what subjected to experiment that grants him great power.
Wonder Woman: Amazonian princess from an unknown, secret island that is sent to the U.S. to facilitate relations between the two countries.
Flash: CSI agent who is caught in a fluke explosion in the lab granting superhuman speed.
Green Lantern: Test pilot who is summoned by a dying green lantern due to his ability to overcome great fear and given a power ring.
Thor: Asgardian god who has returned to earth.
(you can also use that for Hercules if you wanted to do a comic book version of him)
Green Arrow: Rich playboy trapped on a deserted island having to fight to survive, realizes that life is more than just money, when rescued decides to do more.
Ant Man: Scientist who discovers size shifting power.... that is it.
Mutants(all): born with superhuman powers decide to do good based upon upbringing...not really that difficult of a story.
Daredevil: Kid irridated with special sauce, gains superhuman abilities, decides to do good. (note: this works for a #### load of characters)


None of these origins require more than a flashback. If the writers/producers think more is necessary that is ok, but it's not a requirement. You can legitimately create a good movie for any successful comic book character without resorting to an origin movie.
   98. cardsfanboy Posted: March 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM (#4394817)
This exactly. Batman and Spiderman don't need another origin movie for a long time because they're well past saturation point. That's not the case with Captain America or Iron Man or (ugh) Green Lantern. I'm looking forward to the Antman origin movie.


Really? Imagine a Captain America movie in which it starts out with him in middle of battle in 1944 Germany. You immediately see his competence, his ability with the shield, his strength, his leadership etc... do you really need an origin? Then imagine that you get told the origin in flashback form, where the story takes 5-10 minutes telling you about how hard he tried to get into the military, was rejected, selected for the super soldier program, granted abilities, sabotaged, and his mentor killed... ten minutes top. That is all that is necessary for an origin in flashback, it's enough to get you on board, it's enough to tell you about the character, but it doesn't get bogged down in linear storytelling that slows the movie down.

Where is Gandalf's origin?

Heck, in Lethal Weapon, Mel Gibson characters does a shooting range thing that is, by all accounts impossible where he shoots a smiley face (ask Mark Twain) and we don't have an origin for his superhuman shooting ability. Why is the superhero universe expected to maintain a level of belief that is higher than in any typical cop universe?
   99. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 23, 2013 at 01:48 AM (#4394835)
Gandalf is a lesser god in the middle earth world (also sauron though he was more powerfull). him and the other wizards are sent there to fight against him with out getting there hands dirty, or just read the more Tolken
   100. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: March 23, 2013 at 02:06 AM (#4394839)
Snapper, you have more patience and restraint than I do. Thank you for speaking truth again, even as you are bombarded with self-satisfied ignorance and arrogance.
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