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Friday, August 23, 2019

If you want to try the best food from all 30 MLB ballparks, this event is for you

Major League Baseball is giving you another opportunity to taste the most unique ballpark foods from all 30 stadiums in one place. Yep, MLB FoodFest is back and this time it’s returning to New York City.

First launched last year, MLB FoodFest is built for the Instagram generation and is meant to capitalize on all the mouth-watering (but sometimes wacky) foods that are available in modern MLB stadiums.

That means everything from Toasted Grasshoppers (that’s the Mariners’ entry) and Rocky Mountain Oysters (Thanks, Rockies) to more common fare like the Boston Red Sox’s Hot Lobster Roll or the Marlins’ Chicken & Bubble Waffle.

It’s happening Sept. 21 and 22 on Fifth Avenue near Bryant Park. Last year, the NYC event sold out in just 48 hours, which suggests this will be a hot ticket again. Since then, MLB launched a L.A. edition of FoodFest and plans to have another in London.

So, do you see anything you want to eat?

 

QLE Posted: August 23, 2019 at 03:02 AM | 187 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: food, foodfest

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   1. Brian Posted: August 23, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5873742)
Anyone here go last year? I'd be interested in a Primate's review.
   2. ajnrules Posted: August 23, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5873745)
I made sure to try the toasted grasshoppers when I went to a Mariners game last year. I had no qualms of eating grasshoppers, but the chili lime salt seasoning made it much spicier than I expected. Looking at the other choices that's the only selection I've tried. I refuse to eat the Dilly Dog, even though I go to around 20 Rangers games a year.
   3. Bote Man Posted: August 23, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5873776)
Bring wheelbarrows of cash for the $23 beer and $17 basket of fries.
   4. salvomania Posted: August 23, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5873777)
Totally unsurprised that the Cardinals' offering is "Four Hands Nachos."

For years I've been insisting that the reason 43,000 Cardinals fans are so eerily silent throughout 96% of the game* is that, if you look into the stands during games, they're all stuffing their faces with giant plates of nachos.

* They will cheer at all the normal things---homers, runs, great plays, etc.---but are dead silent during typical high-leverage moments. I go to a game at Fenway, and there's a steady buzz all game long, which turns into stand-up cheering during big at-bats---both on offense or defense---even in the third inning. You never hear that from the BFIB.
   5. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 23, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5873808)
The non-Cards NL Central selections are all legit. No lack of flavor there. The Giants Cha Cha is really good but kind of surprised the crab sandwich is not the option. The A's should really have a burrito to be proud of but that has yet to happen which is just wrong. I don't know how KC can feature anything but bbq ribs. WTF??
   6. Brian Posted: August 26, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5874511)
Bote Man, are you serious? Food is included along with 3 beers.
   7. base ball chick Posted: August 26, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5874524)
if the food is coming from the minute maid menu, it is AWFUL. they don't serve any food there that isn't gross
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5874525)
if the food is coming from the minute maid menu, it is AWFUL. they don't serve any food there that isn't gross

Palatable is about the best I've ever gotten from stadium food. I'd much rather go out to dinner before or after, and skip it.

I certainly wouldn't make a special trip just to eat stadium food.
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: August 26, 2019 at 03:37 PM (#5874551)
Citi Field has a Shake Shack, which is a popular regional burger place.

but sometimes the lines are 20-25 minutes long and - no offense to burgerphiles, but no burger is worth that wait.

my lone visit to Dodger Stadium was I think 1985. it's Orel Hershiser vs Joaquin Andujar. I go to get a Dodger Dog and a beer before the start of the 4th inning. 4 people on line in front of me, and it takes THREE FULL INNINGS before I have my food and am back in my seat.

laid back is fine. brain dead? not so much.

the other 6 innings were fun, though.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5874556)
4 people on line
Clearly you're a New Yorker. How did this become a thing? You're obviously not *on* the line - no one is standing on a line drawn on the ground. You're *in* the line, one amongst a number of people who form the actual line.
   11. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5874558)
It's an idiom. It's fine.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5874564)
I'm not saying it's an atrocity, it just makes no sense. I'm wondering if Howie has any idea how it came to be.




OK, it's kind of an atrocity.
   13. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5874567)
but sometimes the lines are 20-25 minutes long and - no offense to burgerphiles, but no burger is worth that wait.


This is simply not true.

I don't think I'd stand in a line that long at a ballpark for a burger -- but I've done the hour wait at Kuma's, for example.... now, I'd prefer dining companions be a bit more amenable to off-peak seating times - I'd rather eat at 5-6ish or 9/10ish but whatever.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5874568)
Citi Field has a Shake Shack, which is a popular regional burger place.

but sometimes the lines are 20-25 minutes long and - no offense to burgerphiles, but no burger is worth that wait.


I've been to the one in Madison Square Park a couple of times. Mediocre. I can do better at home.

Clearly you're a New Yorker. How did this become a thing? You're obviously not *on* the line - no one is standing on a line drawn on the ground. You're *in* the line, one amongst a number of people who form the actual line.

There is an imaginary line that we're all standing on. It's what defines where you're supposed to stand. Some place there are actual lines or lanes.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5874569)
This is simply not true.

I don't think I'd stand in a line that long at a ballpark for a burger -- but I've done the hour wait at Kuma's, for example.... now, I'd prefer dining companions be a bit more amenable to off-peak seating times - I'd rather eat at 5-6ish or 9/10ish but whatever.


There's no restaurant on earth I'd wait an hour for. Cooking is just not that unique a skill. For every hyped place with a long wait there's very likely one around the corner that's 90% as good, if not better.
   16. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5874571)
the Pittsburgh Pirates’ Pulled Pork Pierogie Hoagie


This is just straight-up Instagram food: Unwieldy to eat, kind of gross, and way overpriced for what you get. Thumbs down.
   17. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: August 26, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5874574)
There's no restaurant on earth I'd wait an hour for. Cooking is just not that unique a skill. For every hyped place with a long wait there's very likely one around the corner that's 90% as good, if not better.


You're missing out on a lot of great meals.

I am annoyed by small spaces that refuse to do reservations, but my experience has very (very very) much been that places that are tough to get a table are tough to get a table for a reason.

Unless you're going to go the full Captain Holt (I have zero interest in food. If it were feasible, my diet would consist entirely of flavorless beige smoothies containing all the nutrients required by the human animal) - a good meal is a good meal.

   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 05:01 PM (#5874579)

You're missing out on a lot of great meals.

I am annoyed by small spaces that refuse to do reservations, but my experience has very (very very) much been that places that are tough to get a table are tough to get a table for a reason.

Unless you're going to go the full Captain Holt (I have zero interest in food. If it were feasible, my diet would consist entirely of flavorless beige smoothies containing all the nutrients required by the human animal) - a good meal is a good meal.


I have literally never been impressed by a meal at a "name" restaurant. Le Bernadin, Oceana, 11 Madison, etc. All fine, but nothing I can't get in 20 other places. I see no need to wait, and overpay.

Again, food is not that hard. If one chef can come up with an idea, 1000 chefs can copy it. Old Italian ladies have been making better food than these pros for generations.

Maybe if you have exotic tastes, or constantly crave something different, it's worth it. No skin off my nose, wait as long as you'd like.

But I just like good simple homemade food. Celebrity type chefs/restaurants are generally no better at that than the local restaurateur who actually works in his kitchen.
   19. JJ1986 Posted: August 26, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5874586)
I will often get an hour-long wait at a good local restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5874587)
I'm curious how you can walk out of a place like Eleven Madison Park and conclude that you could get the same stuff almost anywhere.

It's fine to prefer home cooking to this type of fancy food, nothing wrong with that.
   21. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: August 26, 2019 at 05:29 PM (#5874591)
I have literally never been impressed by a meal at a "name" restaurant. Le Bernadin, Oceana, 11 Madison, etc. All fine, but nothing I can't get in 20 other places. I see no need to wait, and overpay.

Again, food is not that hard. If one chef can come up with an idea, 1000 chefs can copy it. Old Italian ladies have been making better food than these pros for generations.

Maybe if you have exotic tastes, or constantly crave something different, it's worth it. No skin off my nose, wait as long as you'd like.

But I just like good simple homemade food. Celebrity type chefs/restaurants are generally no better at that than the local restaurateur who actually works in his kitchen.


We're talking about two different types of places though -- the stodgy, been in Michelin forever places? Sure - a few steakhouses (those that do a long aging!) aside, I've never been impressed by.... the more hipster new and "hot" places? It's not even exotic tastes -- it's interesting fusions you'd never think of and some of them (not all, granted) just absolutely nail it - and nail it in a way that's just not reproduceable by a home chef.

My grandmother made awesome pierogi and her polish sausage remains a closely guarded family secret... but there's a difference between a staple (regional/ethnic adjustments considered) and something new and unexpected that really does knock you socks off.
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: August 26, 2019 at 05:48 PM (#5874597)
my niece graduated from the CIA in Napa Valley and was advised to turn down a gig with a celebrity chef precisely because she is a fusion pastry chef. apparently the celeb chefs basically just steal whatever original ideas you have and then toss you down the garbage disposal (metaphorically. I think. I hope.)
   23. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 06:48 PM (#5874607)
"Celebrity chef" means a lot of different things. There's a spectrum of dedication to craft vs sell-outingness (let's say "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" and the chef from Ratatouille occupy opposite ends of it), and every celebrity occupies a different space on it.

But the idea that your niece, fresh out of culinary school, had original ideas worth stealing - that's amusing. Trust me, they didn't want her ideas. They wanted her labor.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 07:13 PM (#5874611)
I'm curious how you can walk out of a place like Eleven Madison Park and conclude that you could get the same stuff almost anywhere.

It's fine to prefer home cooking to this type of fancy food, nothing wrong with that.


I said I was never impressed. Of course they do some wacky over the top stuff no one copies, but there's a reason no one copies it. The demand just isn't there outside of the "meal as ludicrously priced indulgence and entertainment" market.
   25. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5874615)
Yes, it is certainly ludicrous. These ludicrous places do tend to attract the best kitchen talent, though, and not all of the techniques are just wacky. The food has to taste good.

At the upper echelon of cooking, you're definitely chasing diminishing returns.

Take pizza. In NYC there are an unlimited number of pizzerias that can make, say, a 6 out of 10 pizza. There are many 7 out of 10s, and you might have one around the corner. There are some 8 out of 10s, but these are special and rare, and then there are a handful of 9 out of 10s, the places that are beloved among pizza cognoscenti, the places out of town chowhounds will seek out, the places that some will gladly travel across town to visit, passing by dozens of lesser pizzerias, chasing that extra little bit of quality.

There might even be a few legitimate 10 out of 10s (like this place, where I've never eaten), places that can make as good a pizza as has ever existed on Earth. But most people can't really distinguish a 10 from a 9, or from an 8. You need to spend a lot of time thinking about pizza, tasting it really mindfully, to do that. That will never describe everyone. And anyway you might reasonably prefer your nearby 7 out of 10. You're familiar with it, and it's still pretty darn good.
   26. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 26, 2019 at 07:50 PM (#5874616)
I refuse to wait an hour for a table. If I can't book a table, stuff it, I'm too old to be part of the hipster crowd loitering outside like a bunch of 17 years olds in front of a liquor store hoping to find a stooge to buy them alcohol.

Some of these places, however, do create some incredible dishes, though I largely agree with Snapper, you can get something about 95% as good for a fraction of the price down the road in a good local that's been doing amazing food for generations.
I'm too old to need to be seen and though I can afford a $150-$200 meal, I'd rather burn the cash on something else.
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: August 26, 2019 at 09:23 PM (#5874630)
the idea that your niece, fresh out of culinary school, had original ideas worth stealing - that's amusing.

well, she was literally the top student in her hospitality studies at one of the premier such universities in the U.S., and she landed quite a few plum gigs based on that while in school. she then wound up with a very plum gig in Chicago right out of college.

your premise is probably 99 percent accurate - which means it's inaccurate 1 percent of the time.

just sayin'.
   28. . . . . . . Posted: August 26, 2019 at 09:35 PM (#5874634)
as a very skilled home chef: what you’re eating at a restaurant for is not the average. I can beat the average. My food always comes out perfectly fresh and perfectly hot and cooked to my specifications because I’m ####### cooking it. 9 out of 10 dishes, eating out is a disappointment.

But the 10th.... a restaurant has resources and experience and frankly just repetition which I can’t touch. I eat out knowing I’ll have 9 disappointing dishes but chasing the 10th.

Last month I had the wood grille dry aged vaca vieja at Asador exteberri. It was so ####### good and so much ####### better than any meat I could source or cook in the states. A difference of kind, not degree. Just incredible.

I’ve told this story before, but I once had a meal at Arpege as a friend of the house and it basically made me rethink all the assumptions about how I cook. Passard is a genius.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 10:11 PM (#5874639)
Last month I had the wood grille dry aged vaca vieja at Asador exteberri. It was so ####### good and so much ####### better than any meat I could source or cook in the states. A difference of kind, not degree. Just incredible.


Funny, I almost mentioned Exteberri in my comment above. I was thinking about how some of the truly dedicated geniuses are in fact dedicated to "good simple homemade food," and cook it better than any grandma.

Never been there myself. It's on the bucket list.
   30. . . . . . . Posted: August 26, 2019 at 10:14 PM (#5874640)
Believe it or not, I got off the waitlist after putting myself on it the day before. Random ####### luck.

It’s the most beautiful setting for a restaurant you can possibly imagine. Wedged right up into the mountains.
   31. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 26, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5874643)
4 people on line in front of me, and it takes THREE FULL INNINGS before I have my food and am back in my seat.


You should have told them to get off their phones and order already.
   32. PreservedFish Posted: August 26, 2019 at 10:43 PM (#5874647)
I went on an eating tour of the Basque Country about 12 years ago. At the time it wasn't quite as easy to research food options. I remember reading about one restaurant that someone on Chowhound said served the best grilled turbot in the world. Elkano. It was on our list of places to check out, but we didn't make it, probably because it was raining or something like that. Just learned recently that it's now ranked the 30th best restaurant in the world.
   33. Booey Posted: August 26, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5874655)
#32 - I didn't see Arby's anywhere on that list...
   34. Bote Man Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:11 AM (#5874668)
Again, food is not that hard. If one chef can come up with an idea, 1000 chefs can copy it. Old Italian ladies have been making better food than these pros for generations.

It was a good meal. Not a great one. Virtually every sous chef in the country could have made it. And would have, had they managed to drop the skillet and then happened to find the handle again in the gift of the year.

His momentum was carrying him away from the stove, which I guess is why people were fooled into thinking this was a special meal. I see nothing remarkable about it.
   35. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:21 AM (#5874671)
Dinner is over, it’s always been over.
   36. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:28 AM (#5874674)
I went on an eating tour of the Basque Country about 12 years ago. At the time it wasn't quite as easy to research food options. I remember reading about one restaurant that someone on Chowhound said served the best grilled turbot in the world. Elkano. It was on our list of places to check out, but we didn't make it, probably because it was raining or something like that. Just learned recently that it's now ranked the 30th best restaurant in the world.


Yup. Kills me because now you have to make reservations months in advance. I missed it on my recent trip (I went many years ago) and had to settle for a snack at their bar down the street. Getaria has one of the best restaurants in Spain and a restaurant with the best wine list in Spain, but it’s not the same restaurant, and it’s a tiny town.

I generally don’t love the food in northern Spain, which I know is fighting words but, whatever. I haven’t yet made it to Galicia where all the cool kids say is the good food now, but I’m suspicious.

The food on the French side of the border, like French Basque country and Gascony and the Languedoc, is damn damn damn good. Simple, but so so good. I’d take it over Piedmont and Catalonia and all these other gastronomic places. You go to any big town and the best restaurant is always really good and takes great pride in what they do.
   37. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:45 AM (#5874675)
What snapper doesn’t get is that great food is often the product of local ingredients that aren’t copiable or really transportable. Like, for my money there isn’t a place in NYC that serves seafood like you can get up in Maine, because the water here is warmer and much of the seafood isn’t as good. But for warm water pelagic species like Tuna, you can pick it up fresh off the boat on Long Island and in Maine it’s all frozen.

In Europe the food is even more local because there’s been so much more time to hyperspecialize and evolve regional differences. Truffles in the piedmont are a fraction of the price and way better quality - you can actually eat them without feeling like a gouty pig. Pork in Spain is the same way - you can’t replace pork from an acorn-fed Iberico pig with anything in the US bc it doesn’t taste the same, and acorn pork is almost an entirely different meat with different taste and cooking techniques. Salt marsh lamb from the UK. Tomatoes from the volcanic soil around Naples.

You can’t replicate that and it’s the intersection of a skilled cook with special stuff that creates a unique experience.

Snapper is right that anyone can make Jean-George’s molten chocolate cake.



   38. manchestermets Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:49 AM (#5874676)
There are two overlapping food arguments going on here, aren't there? The top end restaurants that charge a lot for a once in a lifetime type meal will (in my experience) always accept reservations - there should never be a need to queue for an hour. The restaurants that do make you queue are never, in my experience worth queuing for - as noted as good, no burger is that good. Like a mug, I once queued for Grimaldi's under the Brooklyn Bridge, and it was fine. A perfectly cromulent pizza, but nothing I couldn't get in a million other places round the world.
   39. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 06:28 AM (#5874678)
Pizza is one of those things that you need special equipment and experience to make properly, but once you have that, it can be replicated pretty much anywhere. Pizza and cheese and jarred tomatoes are all ingredients that can be shipped.

I’d wait on line for a proper new haven clam pie though.
   40. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5874684)
Grimaldi’s is kind of a tourist trap.
   41. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: August 27, 2019 at 09:33 AM (#5874695)
I hate to take this thread in a hopelessly middlebrow direction, but we have PreservedFish's ear on cooking, and I don't want to miss an opportunity. PreservedFish: You turned me onto Kenji Lopez-Alt and also pointed me toward a recipe for baby octopus in bone marrow ragu that I have saved for a special occasion. Fall is fast approaching, do you (or anyone else here) have a go-to pot roast recipe? I have been craving a good pot roast for the last few weeks, and I'm waiting for the first cool weekend to make one.
   42. Howie Menckel Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:09 AM (#5874704)
there is a Grimaldi's in Las Vegas, and it's weird. I mean, it's actually tasty pizza in the West.

I'll be back there next month.
   43. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:21 AM (#5874707)
I'm always willing to wait 1 cocktail for a table, but not a second longer. When I'm sipping the dregs I better be walking behind the maitre'd to the table or I'm out.
   44. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:23 AM (#5874709)
a recipe for baby octopus in bone marrow ragu


Ha. snappers point about people copying a good thing strikes true! That's Michael White's dish from Marea. Never gets old. There's a good youtube video where they show how they prepare it. Sure helps to have lots of starchy pasta water to play with to bind the sauce.

I'm no pro like PF, but sous vide has been a game changer for me for all the low-slow beef recipes. So much less stinky and you can guarantee your meat wont dry out. You do need to replace some of the caramelizing but there are tricks for that like black garlic or jaggery.

   45. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5874713)
44

Yes, sous vide has been a game changer for me, also. We have frequent dinner guests and it's fun to wow people with it. One small example is the combo of sous vide plus smoker which makes AMAZING barbecue, baby backs and short ribs in particular, that you can time to be served at a given moment.
   46. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5874715)
What snapper doesn’t get is that great food is often the product of local ingredients that aren’t copiable or really transportable. Like, for my money there isn’t a place in NYC that serves seafood like you can get up in Maine, because the water here is warmer and much of the seafood isn’t as good. But for warm water pelagic species like Tuna, you can pick it up fresh off the boat on Long Island and in Maine it’s all frozen.

Is this really true with the advent of same day air shipment?

I mean, Maine to NY is trivial. Any seafood you can get fresh in Maine, can be fresh in NY 5-8 hours later with just a truck, and a lot of ice. The lobster you eat in NY is from Maine.

In Europe the food is even more local because there’s been so much more time to hyperspecialize and evolve regional differences. Truffles in the piedmont are a fraction of the price and way better quality - you can actually eat them without feeling like a gouty pig. Pork in Spain is the same way - you can’t replace pork from an acorn-fed Iberico pig with anything in the US bc it doesn’t taste the same, and acorn pork is almost an entirely different meat with different taste and cooking techniques. Salt marsh lamb from the UK. Tomatoes from the volcanic soil around Naples.

You can’t replicate that and it’s the intersection of a skilled cook with special stuff that creates a unique experience.


Maybe I just don't have the palate to tell the difference. I certainly don't with wine.
   47. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:37 AM (#5874722)
One small example is the combo of sous vide plus smoker which makes AMAZING barbecue, baby backs and short ribs in particular, that you can time to be served at a given moment.


I can't use a smoker here in the city but sous vide + high quality liquid smoke makes crockpot BBQ that's better than what a lot of people create with a smoker. And ####### fantastic pastrami!

Is this really true with the advent of same day air shipment?

I mean, Maine to NY is trivial. Any seafood you can get fresh in Maine, can be fresh in NY 5-8 hours later with just a truck, and a lot of ice. The lobster you eat in NY is from Maine.


Yes, it matters. The distribution chain takes longer than "5-8 hours". And it's not just timing, its how the fish were caught and how they were treated when caught. There's a huge difference between a fish that's treated well and one that has been bruised or wasn't bled properly, etc. And FWIW, most lobster you eat in NY, particularly in the summer, is from Nova Scotia because there are so many shedders in Maine in the summer and you can't ship those. NS has more hard shells in the summer and a more consistent supply of big lobsters. Probably better quality too, but I've never been to NS to try 'em.

Maybe I just don't have the palate to tell the difference. I certainly don't with wine.


Yeah, its one thing to have a crappy palate, it's another thing to extrapolate from that to assume that everybody does.
   48. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:46 AM (#5874727)
One thing you could try, snapper, is to go to BuonItalia in Chelsea Market and pick up a pack of Setaro spaghetti and a jar of passata made from corbara tomatoes. Make a super simple fresh tomato sauce from the passata, just sautee some garlic, maybe add a little white wine. Compare that spaghetti & tomato sauce to any supermarket spagehtti and a decent quality supermarket tomato sauce (like a Raos or something like that).

If the difference doesn't immediately jump out to you, then I agree chasing good restaurants is a waste of your time.
   49. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5874729)
Yeah, its one thing to have a crappy palate, it's another thing to extrapolate from that to assume that everybody does.

I know what tastes good to me. Some things vary significantly, others don't.

A good steak, a good Dover Soul, hamburger meat, those I can minutely distinguish, and won't eat the inferior stuff. Clams also; if they're not super fresh, I won't touch them. Crab, there's a huge difference in quality. But Lobster is pretty damn bland, as is most other common fish. Fresh fruit and vegetables, the locally grown stuff is massively superior to industrial production.

I don't think it's possible to say which palate is good, and which is "crappy". I personally think it's a major advantage that I like a $20 wine as much as a $100 bottle, and a $25 Bourbon better than Pappy Van Winkle.

   50. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5874731)
One thing you could try, snapper, is to go to BuonItalia in Chelsea Market and pick up a pack of Setaro spaghetti and a jar of passata made from corbara tomatoes. Make a super simple fresh tomato sauce from the passata, just sautee some garlic, maybe add a little white wine. Compare that spaghetti & tomato sauce to any supermarket spagehtti and a decent quality supermarket tomato sauce (like a Raos or something like that).

If the difference doesn't immediately jump out to you, then I agree chasing good restaurants is a waste of your time.


I would never eat supermarket tomato sauce in the first place. My wife always makes homemade. There are some non-red sauces she'll buy, but red sauce is always home made.

What kind of Italians do you think we are? :-)
   51. The Good Face Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM (#5874739)
I don't think it's possible to say which palate is good, and which is "crappy". I personally think it's a major advantage that I like a $20 wine as much as a $100 bottle, and a $25 Bourbon better than Pappy Van Winkle.


I've been to blind tastings where a ~$40 bourbon handily came out on top over many far, far more expensive bottles. And these were educated, informed bourbon drinkers who, in many cases, had sizable and expensive collections of their own. The entire Pappy van Winkle collection is absurdly overrated and overpriced. The bourbon is good, but the marketing hype is what's truly world class there.
   52. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5874741)
I've been to blind tastings where a ~$40 bourbon handily came out on top over many far, far more expensive bottles. And these were educated, informed bourbon drinkers who, in many cases, had sizable and expensive collections of their own. The entire Pappy van Winkle collection is absurdly overrated and overpriced. The bourbon is good, but the marketing hype is what's truly world class there.


I am in a couple of regular blind wine tasting groups, and while preferences are all over the map, one common theme is that more expensive wines are ranked more highly, as a general rule.

Put differently, some folks like big wine and some like less ripe, some like fruity and some like structured, but within your preferred style, you will generally like more expensive wines better. If you are the sort of person who joins a blind tasting group. Which I am.

A few weeks ago I took a couple of our interns out for end of summer drinks to a fancy wine bar. I noticed they had a very special and hard to find bottle on their wine list for a fraction of its retail price (nearly all stores sell it a huge markup to wholesale, this bar was selling it at its standard markup). I didn't tell them and had it poured. 3 of the 4 didn't notice. The 4th - who had no wine knowledge or experience - froze when she took a sip and interrupted the conversation to ask me what the hell had just been poured in her glass. Not everyone's tongues are wired the same. Even me, a huge wine and food geek, is only a 6 out of 10 or so in blind tasting. I know a guy who is a 10 out of 10 and it would blow your mind.
   53. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5874744)
I know a guy who is a 10 out of 10 and it would blow your mind.
Oh, man, yeah. I very much enjoy wine but am at the stage where I'm about 10% knowledge and 90% curiosity/enthusiasm. I see the documentaries on master sommeliers and they're just unbelievable. "This comes from the west side of this particular hill in Alsace, not the east side." They have an unreal ability to memorize a massive database of information covering many variables and then match it with an almost superhuman sensory perception.

In a fantasy world, I would love to quit my job and study wine full-time, but I don't think I could get anywhere near that level even if I did. I could probably do OK with committing the information to memory if I really immersed myself, but I don't think my palate could be that finely tuned even with max effort.
   54. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5874747)
I can't use a smoker here in the city but sous vide + high quality liquid smoke makes crockpot BBQ that's better than what a lot of people create with a smoker. And ####### fantastic pastrami!


When I'm elevated to the throne, my first ukase will be to ban the the very concept of "crockpot barbecue." If it aint got smoke and a crust, it aint barbecue.
   55. The Good Face Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5874748)
I am in a couple of regular blind wine tasting groups, and while preferences are all over the map, one common theme is that more expensive wines are ranked more highly, as a general rule.

Put differently, some folks like big wine and some like less ripe, some like fruity and some like structured, but within your preferred style, you will generally like more expensive wines better. If you are the sort of person who joins a blind tasting group. Which I am.


Bourbon is very tricky in blind tastings because it's such a narrow spirit in terms of how it can be made and still be labeled as bourbon. It's not like wine where so many different grape varietals can be used in all sorts of proportions. And because roughly 50% of any bourbon's flavor comes from its barrel, single barrel products can often have significant variance, which can really throw tasters off. Even exceptionally experienced ones. The best tasters can usually nail down proof within a few percentage points and can often identify the distillery (almost all bourbon worth drinking comes from one of like 8-10 distilleries), but even that's not a sure thing.

   56. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5874752)
I can usually guess the distillery, prob 7/10, but getting the individual brand is a lot harder.
   57. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5874754)
Lobster is pretty damn bland


Wait, what? You really think so?
   58. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5874755)
Oh, man, yeah. I very much enjoy wine but am at the stage where I'm about 10% knowledge and 90% curiosity/enthusiasm. I see the documentaries on master sommeliers and they're just unbelievable. "This comes from the west side of this particular hill in Alsace, not the east side." They have an unreal ability to memorize a massive database of information covering many variables and then match it with an almost superhuman sensory perception.

In a fantasy world, I would love to quit my job and study wine full-time, but I don't think I could get anywhere near that level even if I did. I could probably do OK with committing the information to memory if I really immersed myself, but I don't think my palate could be that finely tuned even with max effort.


This guy runs the wine program for a michelin 3 star. He combines amazing tasting ability with an intellect and a legitimately photographic memory. The last bit is the most important part, because he retains an 'image' of every wine he's drunk and can map what he's tasting to his stored images until he gets a hit. It is un-#######-canny. He can do crazy memory tricks outside of the wine context as well.

I'm knowledgeable enough about wine that I could pass the MW theory examination with a couple of weeks of prep, and I've done some research work that would satisfy the paper requirement, but I have no idea if I could do the practical exam and it would scare the pants off of me.

   59. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5874756)
When I'm elevated to the throne, my first ukase will be to ban the the very concept of "crockpot barbecue." If it aint got smoke and a crust, it aint barbecue.


If you need a smoker to make a crust, you're doing it wrong.
   60. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5874759)
Wait, what? You really think so?

Yes. Isn't that why most people smother lobster with drawn butter? On just plain taste, I find crab more flavorful.
   61. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5874760)
Yes. Isn't that why most people smother lobster with drawn butter? On just plain taste, I find crab more flavorful.


Some crab - particularly Jonah or Dungeness or (for those with a European bent) Spider, is better than lobster, but I'd take lobster over blue crab.
   62. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5874777)
If you need a smoker to make a crust, you're doing it wrong.


You need a smoker to call it barbecue, and the heat from the smoker creates the crust. Sine qua non.
   63. Rusty Priske Posted: August 27, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5874780)
I am not a 'foodie'. I can literally enjoy a Taco Bell bean burrito.

But I still remember the best meals I have ever eaten.

Overall - Emeril's
Best Dish - Appetizer sampler at Wolfgang Puck's
Best Dish Part 2 - Po' Boy at The House of Blues

All were in Orlando, though I am certainly not.

Is there better food out there? I am sure there is, but for me, at that moment, in that place and time, these are what sticks with me.
   64. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:16 PM (#5874789)
Any seafood you can get fresh in Maine, can be fresh in NY 5-8 hours later with just a truck

I really doubt this ever happens. Storage, transport, etc. If you pick it up in your car and drive it home and eat it, sure. But when there's money and transactions involved? No.
   65. Nasty Nate Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5874792)
In a lot of situations, there is storage/transport involved in eating Maine seafood when you are in Maine, too.
   66. Bote Man Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:30 PM (#5874799)
This thread is begging for McCoy.

I know a couple ham radio buddies in Maryland who asked each other what they wanted for lunch, one guy said "lobster" so they drove to Maine right then and there. Weird!
   67. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:31 PM (#5874800)
'Zop, have you ever eaten at Malaparte down in the West Village? We adore it, and I've basically stopped eating ANY Italian food anywhere in Northern NY, because it's all the same ragu crap for 200 miles in every direction from Utica. I mean, maybe because that place is more popular now it isn't as good as 5 years ago, but I feel like it's some of the best (not-modern) Italian I've ever had. Just curious for someone else's opinion.
   68. Nasty Nate Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:34 PM (#5874802)
There is lobster on sale at some of the supermarkets near me in Boston this week. I might get a couple, even though they won't be super-fresh and they may come from as far away as the Magdalen Islands. I haven't had any whole lobsters this summer yet.
   69. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 27, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5874809)
The last bit is the most important part, because he retains an 'image' of every wine he's drunk and can map what he's tasting to his stored images until he gets a hit. It is un-#######-canny. He can do crazy memory tricks outside of the wine context as well.
I have perfect pitch, so I understand being able to perceive, differentiate and pair a name with a particular sensory input in ways that other people can't, but people like that essentially have perfect pitch in a world where there is a virtually infinite number of notes in the scale.
   70. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:06 PM (#5874831)
I hate to take this thread in a hopelessly middlebrow direction, but we have PreservedFish's ear on cooking, and I don't want to miss an opportunity.


Wait, am I synonymous with middlebrow?

PreservedFish: You turned me onto Kenji Lopez-Alt and also pointed me toward a recipe for baby octopus in bone marrow ragu that I have saved for a special occasion. Fall is fast approaching, do you (or anyone else here) have a go-to pot roast recipe? I have been craving a good pot roast for the last few weeks, and I'm waiting for the first cool weekend to make one.


I don't have a go-to. Braising is such a flexible technique that I always just end up using whatever random root vegetables are around, whatever random alcohol I have on hand, spices according to whim, etc. The only thing I'd say is that using a real homemade stock (or a frozen stock from a gourmet butcher or market) makes a big difference, and that you should always use chuck, never round.
   71. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5874836)
Wait, am I synonymous with middlebrow?


No, but my asking for a pot roast recipe seems pretty damned middlebrow.

I don't have a go-to. Braising is such a flexible technique that I always just end up using whatever random root vegetables are around, whatever random alcohol I have on hand, spices according to whim, etc. The only thing I'd say is that using a real homemade stock (or a frozen stock from a gourmet butcher or market) makes a big difference, and that you should always use chuck, never round.


Right on, thank you. Whenever I've bothered to make a homemade stock in the past, I've always noticed a distinct improvement in the quality of the final dish, so I will try that.
   72. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5874838)
Although I'm the "expert" here, I don't think I have a particularly refined palate. I'm also not sure that a really subtle palate is necessary to be a really good chef. A lot of my favorite food is not at all subtle - the spicy/tangy flavor blasts in Thai food for example, or the Ottolenghi-style habit of garnishing practically everything with a zillion herbs, spiced yogurts, pomegranate seeds etc. I really enjoy loud, maximalist food.

I'm not a wine guy or a booze connoisseur of any sort. I don't really drink enough to get my knowledge up to that level. Or spend enough money.
   73. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5874839)
I'm not a wine guy or a booze connoisseur of any sort. I don't really drink enough to get my knowledge up to that level. Or spend enough money.

There's a huge range of excellent whiskeys under $30 per fifth. That's a lot of alcohol per $, much more than in beer :-)
   74. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:47 PM (#5874840)
there is a Grimaldi's in Las Vegas, and it's weird. I mean, it's actually tasty pizza in the West.


Howie, every part of this opinion is about 25 years out of date.

Every city out West has at least one and probably several NYC-area transplants making NYC-style and NYC-quality pizzas. The idea that you can't get good pizza somewhere like Los Angeles is wrong.

And Naples-style pizza - which is also excellent - is everywhere. It's a style to which NYC has no special claim to authenticity or mastery. And like 'zop (. . . . . . . .) says, it doesn't take a genius to make it good, just the right equipment and a touch of technique. I've done it myself. The Bay Area has at least a dozen wonderful pizzerias of this sort, probably more.

It was well over a decade ago that pizza elitists began to declare that Pizzeria Bianco - in Phoenix, Arizona! - was the single best pizzeria in the country. (I've never been there, but have heard raves from friends)

And finally, if the Grimaldi's under the Bridge is a tourist trap (which it is), then you better believe their LV outpost is no better. Doesn't mean it's not tasty, but your suggestion that the mere imprimatur of NYC somehow makes it the only tasty pizza within a thousand miles is, well, also wrong. Maybe that could have been true decades ago. But regionalism is on the wane. It's easier than ever to transplant food traditions. Some day we'll learn that the world's greatest new BBQ restaurant is in Japan or Brazil or Oregon or South Africa or something. Tokyo's pizzerias supposedly already rival Naples', and it is frequently argued that you can get better French food in Japan than you can in France.
   75. RoyalFlush Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5874842)
I don't know how KC can feature anything but bbq ribs. WTF??


For whatever reason, the BBQ at Kauffman Stadium has been sub-par for years. After the '04 renovations, there was an Arthur Bryant's at the Stadium and it was fine. Now it's a Sweet Baby Rays? WTF? There are probably 20+ local BBQ places serving BBQ than that place. Very disappointing.

The KC selection the linked menu does have pulled pork - no idea if it's any good. There's only a few places where I think the pulled pork is even worth ordering, so I don't have any confidence that this stuff is any good.
   76. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5874843)
Every city out West has at least one and probably several NYC-area transplants making NYC-style and NYC-quality pizzas. The idea that you can't get good pizza somewhere like Los Angeles is wrong.

Doesn't the local water and yeast make a huge difference in bread products?
   77. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5874845)
You'll never have the palate to know.
   78. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5874846)
No but seriously, I imagine it can make a difference, but when you're talking about local water, you're getting to a level of subtlety that most people do not bring to a large slice of sausage & mushroom. This is the problem of diminishing returns I mentioned above.

Also, I imagine most pizzamakers just use dry yeast, not a living starter, and certainly not the wild yeast naturally present in the environment. And if they were really obsessive about all this, they could probably steal some sourdough starter from Naples, problem solved.
   79. The Good Face Posted: August 27, 2019 at 03:59 PM (#5874847)
There's a huge range of excellent whiskeys under $30 per fifth. That's a lot of alcohol per $, much more than in beer :-)


Sadly, prices have been creeping up, and a number of reasonably priced quality offerings have either become more expensive, difficult to find, or both. Even so, it's still possible to find quality bourbon/rye for under $30 a bottle. Just have to look a bit harder.
   80. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5874849)
No but seriously, of course it can make a difference, but when you're talking about local water, you're getting to a level of subtlety that most people do not bring to a large slice of sausage & mushroom.

I don't know, but I've always heard that cited as why you can't get good sourdough outside of SF, and why NY bagels are superior.

It definitely matters for whiskey. All the best whiskey comes from places with limestone filtered water.
   81. jmurph Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:13 PM (#5874855)
the spicy/tangy flavor blasts in Thai food for example

PreservedFish: while we're firing questions at you, is it just hopeless to think a home cook can approximate Thai flavors without using fish sauce? Asking as a vegetarian.
   82. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5874856)
NY Bagels are superior, and it's an interesting phenomenon. The water is a factor. However, my suspicion is that it's primarily a question of technique (and demand). I'm not a bagel expert, but I've seen it theorized that NYC bagels just cannot be reproduced by an artisanal process. That is, unlike with pizza, one dedicated genius can't just make it all happen by himself. It requires larger-scale industrial consistency.

Also remember that even in NYC, puffy national-style bagels outsell the harder traditional ones best loved by connoisseurs. So I don't know how much demand there is for the authentic NYC bagels elsewhere. There's also a lot of baggage at this point, as people simply expect the California NYC-style bagel to be inferior.

I used to live near a hip Montreal-style bagel place in Oakland, and it was successful, but I think the success had more to do with the style of the place and the high quality of the toppings than it did the bagels themselves (although they were great). And I think choosing Montreal-style (as opposed to NYC-style) was clever, because customers have less weighty expectations. But also, the Montreal-style bagels are more of an artisanal process, it seems, wonky hand-made shapes and cooked in a wood-fired oven.
   83. jmurph Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5874857)
And Naples-style pizza - which is also excellent - is everywhere. It's a style to which NYC has no special claim to authenticity or mastery. And like 'zop (. . . . . . . .) says, it doesn't take a genius to make it good, just the right equipment and a touch of technique. I've done it myself. The Bay Area has at least a dozen wonderful pizzerias of this sort, probably more.

Tony's Pizza Napoletana in North Beach, SF, is one of the best I've ever had, for sure.
   84. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5874858)
NY Bagels are superior, and it's an interesting phenomenon. The water is a factor. However, my suspicion is that it's primarily a question of technique (and demand). I'm not a bagel expert, but I've seen it theorized that NYC just cannot be reproduced by an artisanal process. That is, unlike with pizza, one dedicated genius can't just make it all happen by himself. It requires larger-scale industrial consistency.

I used to think that before I tried Beauty's Bagels in Oakland.
   85. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5874859)
Ha. You missed my edit. Beauty's is the very place I was referring to.
   86. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5874860)
PreservedFish: while we're firing questions at you, is it just hopeless to think a home cook can approximate Thai flavors without using fish sauce? Asking as a vegetarian.


You can buy vegan fish sauces. Never tried them, but I'd start there.

It's a distinct and very important flavor... wouldn't want to just omit it.
   87. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5874861)
Interesting read.Thanks for all the perspectives. 75, that is criminal serving shitty bbq in a city with so much amazing bbq. The Royals cannot even get bbq right which I guess should not surprise but wow.

I am a big fan of tapas. And a really good burrito. I thought Nate Silver's search for the best burrito was one of the ten best online sharing of the last decade.
   88. jmurph Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5874865)
Thanks PF.
   89. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5874866)
Ha. You missed my edit. Beauty's is the very place I was referring to.

Yeah, after the edit your post makes more sense. Despite the reputation most of the bagels in NYC are actually pretty mediocre.

There is a good recipe online for making bagels at home using a yukone that is quite good. Certainly not the best bagels ever, but significantly better than most of the bagels you can buy.
   90. PreservedFish Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5874867)
Despite the reputation most of the bagels in NYC are actually pretty mediocre.


Just like pizza.

"90% of everything is garbage" works in New York, too.
   91. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:50 PM (#5874868)
"90% of everything is garbage" works in New York, too. I have never had bad food in NYC. And I have eaten from food trucks to whatever. And not just Manhattan but all over. Guess I have been lucky
   92. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 27, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5874869)
Pizzeria Bianco is really ####### good. No standing to declare best of anything though. And yes Vegas is the home for all the chefs who decided starting up in NYC or Chicago or Boston was insane because of startup costs and did the classic go west thing. Pretty amazing actually.
   93. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:03 PM (#5874870)
I have had to travel to the south for investor meetings (no money like old southern money!) and had a lot of good meals. Have to detox when I get home though when the meal comes with like 10-15 hush puppies and it's just wrong not to finish
   94. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:11 PM (#5874871)
As a food loving NY Jew, I was so ready to #### on Beauty’s when my Bay Area friends dragged me there on my last visit. Sonofabitch if it wasn’t fantastic. And my baseline is that I live 3 blocks from one of the branches of Russ & Daughters, so I know from appetizing.
   95. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5874872)
One thing I’ve observed - would be curious to get PF’s view of this - is that as the average level of food sophistication of the American public has gotten higher, bigger restaurant groups are doing a much better job relative to dedicated artisanal places than historically. Many Italian restaurants have opened in NYC the last few years; for my money Marea, flagship of a god-knows-how-many de facto chain under the auspices of the Alta Marea group, is still the most consistently excellent. I’ve started to think the the economies of scale that bigger groups enjoy, along with the ability to have a sort of “farm system” for staff at lower priced restaurants in the group, has made it harder for unique restaurants to compete on quality, whereas before the big groups were more profitable but the food was worse.
   96. . . . . . . Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:21 PM (#5874874)
I have perfect pitch, so I understand being able to perceive, differentiate and pair a name with a particular sensory input in ways that other people can't, but people like that essentially have perfect pitch in a world where there is a virtually infinite number of notes in the scale.


I can’t emphasize enough how rare it is. I have drunk blind with lots of wine folks who are ITB, and at least a dozen MWs/MSs, and he’s off the charts even in that group. Plenty of famous somms couldn’t tell their ass from their face if they couldn’t see the label to tell them which was which.
   97. Greg Pope Posted: August 27, 2019 at 05:59 PM (#5874884)
Also remember that even in NYC, puffy national-style bagels outsell the harder traditional ones best loved by connoisseurs. So I don't know how much demand there is for the authentic NYC bagels elsewhere. There's also a lot of baggage at this point, as people simply expect the California NYC-style bagel to be inferior.

I had always heard that it was the water in New York that made the bagels different. But there's a place in Chicago, New York Bagel and Bialy that makes bagels as good as any you'll find in New York. Every Jewish person* I have talked to about bagels knows about that place.

*I think this isn't racist because I'm half Jewish and one of the people is my father.
   98. Nasty Nate Posted: August 27, 2019 at 06:04 PM (#5874886)
I've always been skeptical about the story that it was the NYC water that made pizza/bagels especially good...
   99. Brian Posted: August 27, 2019 at 06:37 PM (#5874890)
This thread went in a different direction than expected but has been very interesting. I am going to the MLB Foodfest in NYC and will give a scouting report afterwards. $50 for 3 beers and a bunch of samples of ballpark food kind of sets the bar of expectations fairly low. Our favorite place in NYC, Tabla, closed a few years ago after many years and many great meals there.
   100. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 27, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5874891)
Isn't that why most people smother lobster with drawn butter?


I think people eat lobster with drawn butter because butter is tasty. A lot of restaurants put it on steaks, too, for the same reason.
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