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Saturday, March 22, 2014

Indians release outfielder Jeff Francoeur

Born Toulouse-Lautrec. (even Genzale weeps)

The Indians have released outfielder Jeff Francoeur, who’d been signed to a minor-league deal and brought into camp to compete for the final spot on the roster. Francoeur had put up decent numbers this spring (.286/.359/.429), and made a couple great throws from the outfield, but he was always a longshot to make the roster, given that there were so many other guys set for playing time in the outfield, or who provided the versatility to also play the infield.

...Francoeur has been well-liked by teammates and media members are every stop of the career, which has led to some inflation in the public perception of his performance, but he has had a couple good years in his career (2007 and 2011 stand out), and he’s still only 30, so I imagine he’ll be able to land some sort of contract with another team, and that his release was largely about giving him that opportunity.

Au revoir, Frenchy…

Repoz Posted: March 22, 2014 at 12:41 PM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: indians

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: March 22, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4675363)
Is he old enough to play for the Phillies?
   2. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: March 22, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4675364)
I hope this isn't the end. I used to be a part of the hate and the snark against Francoeur, but as I got older I realized hating is old, and it's no longer fun to go on the internet and #### all over a guy who's done things we've only dreamed of. I don't want to root for a guy to fail, so I've grown fond of having him around baseball. I know he sucks, but I hope he catches on with another team soon.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4675365)
If you love something, let it go.
   4. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: March 22, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4675366)
Mother of mercy, is this the end of Frenchy?
   5. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: March 22, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4675369)
I hope this isn't the end. I used to be a part of the hate and the snark against Francoeur, but as I got older I realized hating is old, and it's no longer fun to go on the internet and #### all over a guy who's done things we've only dreamed of. I don't want to root for a guy to fail, so I've grown fond of having him around baseball. I know he sucks, but I hope he catches on with another team soon.

Of all the silly obsessions in this place, and there are a lot of them, the Francouer obsession has been easily one of the dumbest.

As far as I know, the guy has never done anything that terrible. He may have been a little overrated at one point, but I've never understood why we're supposed to care so much.
   6. Lassus Posted: March 22, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4675382)
He cannot really be the 751st worst person playing baseball in the major leagues.

(YES I KNOW THAT ISN'T HOW IT WORKS)
   7. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: March 22, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4675388)
After sucking for more than a full season, while playing every single day and being given more chances than anyone could ever be entitled to, he is finally, mercifully sent down and responds with:

“This has really put a damper on my relationship with the Atlanta Braves,” Francoeur told the AJC.

“I love playing for the city, I love playing for the fans and always have,” said Francoeur, a graduate of Parkview High School in Lilburn. “But I’m disappointed with the decision and how the whole process went down.”


If you can't get after a guy that f'ing clueless, then there is no point to having the internet.
   8. valuearbitrageur Posted: March 22, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4675391)
I know he sucks, but I hope he catches on with another team soon


He's had his chances, good riddance.

No one is owed half million dollar part time job, esp. a guy who has already been overpaid by $10M or so. If he gets a roster spot it will be an injustice to the minor leaguers who deserve it more. Why do you hate anonymous players so? Let Frenchy move on to the next phase of his life, one he is better suited for.
   9. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4675394)

No one is owed half million dollar part time job, esp. a guy who has already been overpaid by $10M or so. If he gets a roster spot it will be an injustice to the minor leaguers who deserve it more. Why do you hate anonymous players so? Let Frenchy move on to the next phase of his life, one he is better suited for.


Exactly....On the Cardinals he would be the 9th best outfielder option and that is being nice, I imagine that most teams would have no problem finding 5 guys better than him to fill out their roster.
   10. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 22, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4675398)
No one is owed half million dollar part time job, esp. a guy who has already been overpaid by $10M or so. If he gets a roster spot it will be an injustice to the minor leaguers who deserve it more.


If he gets a minor league deal somewhere, I hope he earns himself a call up. Despite his poor performance the last two seasons, he's been one of my favorites for awhile, and I'll continue to pull for him. That doesn't mean he's owed anything. At the same time, another shot wouldn't necessarily be undeserved.
   11. BDC Posted: March 22, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4675399)
On the Cardinals he would be the 9th best outfielder option

On the Rangers, Francoeur would be the 3rd-best RHB outfielder right now. Of course, they only have two at the moment.

That's not really to kick him when he's down. He did well here in a brief stint in 2010 as a fourth or fifth OF, especially against LHP. But wow, he only hit .223 against LHP last year. At a certain point you can't be a platoon player just because you're really bad at your weakness, you also have to stay good at your strength.
   12. JE (Jason) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 05:47 PM (#4675452)
Mother of mercy, is this the end of Frenchy?

That's what we said after the Rangers Royals Giants let him go.
   13. Select Storage Device Posted: March 22, 2014 at 08:00 PM (#4675497)
Some bitter people around here. He should keep playing as long as he enjoys it and someone is willing to pay him.
   14. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4675521)
What's funny is that Francouer is going to be a hitting coach for 40 years, and one day will be teaching youngsters whose parents haven't yet been born how to hit like a big leaguer.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: March 22, 2014 at 09:47 PM (#4675527)
What's funny is that Francouer is going to be a hitting coach for 40 years, and one day will be teaching youngsters whose parents haven't yet been born how to hit like a big leaguer.


Don't see anything wrong with that. John Mabry has been an excellent hitting coach for the Cardinals, arguably the two best pitching coaches of all time, were a catcher and a minor league retread, ability to play in the majors has very little to do with success as a coach.
   16. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 10:00 PM (#4675531)

Some bitter people around here. He should keep playing as long as he enjoys it and someone is willing to pay him.


He'd be an ideal Indy League guy. Great interactions with the fans, a name that can draw some fans, and he can still hit mistakes well. Bat is just too slow to keep up with MLB fastballs and breaking stuff and his pitch recognition is catching up with him. And he's a huge liability in the field. But yea, other than his lack of hitting and fielding, he's a terrific player.
   17. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 10:26 PM (#4675541)
ability to play in the majors has very little to do with success as a coach.

Charlie Lau: 255/318/365
Walt Hriniak: 253/333/253
   18. DanG Posted: March 22, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4675545)
Fewest career WAR, 750+ G in RF and 4000+ PA:

Rk                 Player WAR/pos OPS+    G    PA From   To
114         Austin Kearns    12.9  102 1125  4179 2002 2013
115              Dan Ford    11.8  109 1153  4582 1975 1985
116             Max Flack    11.6  101 1411  5906 1914 1925
117         Shano Collins    11.3   90 1804  7045 1910 1925
118           Ollie Brown    10.4  103 1221  4012 1965 1977
119      Juan Encarnacion     8.8   97 1259  5095 1997 2007
120        Michael Tucker     8.0   95 1417  4686 1995 2006
121        Tommy Griffith     7.6  102 1399  5448 1913 1925
122         George Browne     7.6  100 1102  4717 1901 1912
123        
'Jeff Francoeur    7.3   91 1227  4959 2005 2013'
124          Jose Guillen     6.4   99 1650  6418 1997 2010
125        Dante Bichette     5.6  107 1704  6856 1988 2001
126           Don Mueller     3.6   88 1245  4593 1948 1959 
   19. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 22, 2014 at 11:21 PM (#4675552)
FWIW, Frenchy is a year shy of getting the $100k MLB pension, as well as reaching MLB eligibility.
   20. DanG Posted: March 22, 2014 at 11:27 PM (#4675553)
He also needs one more year to be eligible for the Hall of Fame ballot.
   21. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: March 22, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4675557)
125        Dante Bichette     5.6  107 1704  6856 1988 2001


Really! My mental picture of Dante Bichette is much better than that.
   22. Select Storage Device Posted: March 22, 2014 at 11:50 PM (#4675560)
He'd be an ideal Indy League guy.


Pfft.

But yea, other than his lack of hitting and fielding, he's a terrific player.


Pfft.

Jeff Francoeur gives me the Klingon face.


He sure does.
   23. zachtoma Posted: March 23, 2014 at 03:46 AM (#4675594)
Of all the silly obsessions in this place, and there are a lot of them, the Francouer obsession has been easily one of the dumbest.

As far as I know, the guy has never done anything that terrible. He may have been a little overrated at one point, but I've never understood why we're supposed to care so much.


No he's never done anything remotely objectionable except for that lame Delta blog and whining about being demoted when he was stinking it up in Atlanta. But he made the cover of Sports Illustrated about 30 days into his career with the caption 'The Natural', that's not his fault but it opened him up to lots of ridicule when he flamed out. Add in the fact that lots of people around the league seemed to hold that perception of him for far longer than was warranted by his performance ('He may have been a little overrated at one point' is more than an understatement) and it's perfectly understandable. I think you're feigning obtuseness here to disguise some indignation, but there is indeed a fair point in pushing back against it: I do feel bad for him that he's gotten so much of this kind of attention, but he is a Major League Baseball player.
   24. BDC Posted: March 23, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4675620)
Meh, there is no bad publicity. Francoeur is better than most of the ballplayers on the planet, and has had some pretty good years even in the majors. He's fun to talk about.

I too am surprised that Dante Bichette had fewer WAR in his whole career than (say) Jacoby Ellsbury had last season. Denver inflated his offense, naturally, but he was still an OK hitter. He had some speed, a very good arm – but overall WAR really, really hates his defense, and at corner OF "OK hitter" and $3.95 will get you a latte.
   25. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: March 23, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4675626)
In 1995, the year Bichette hit 340/364/620, the league (in Bichette's context) hit 301/374/469. Derek Jeter's career line is 312/381/446, so in Bichette's context the average hitter was basically Derek Jeter with more power and slightly less OBP. Last year Carlos Santana went 377/455, so a little worse than Bichette's context, and put up a 137 OPS+. We remember that the era and ballpark inflated hitting numbers, but we forget the extent of it. Denver in the sillyball era was insane.

Also, Bichette a fat guy with poor range playing in a huge outfield. He was a bad defender.
   26. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: March 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM (#4675634)
I find people who use Frenchy as an excuse to boast about how adult and empathetic they are to be the worst kind of douche. If you're so grown up, why don't you just not say anything?
   27. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: March 23, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4675642)
Frenchy had bad timing. He was hated more as a concept of some people in baseball (I use that broadly to include media) failing to still understand the value of OBP.
   28. Captain Supporter Posted: March 23, 2014 at 12:48 PM (#4675655)
hope this isn't the end. I used to be a part of the hate and the snark against Francoeur, but as I got older I realized hating is old, and it's no longer fun to go on the internet and #### all over a guy who's done things we've only dreamed of.


Dock, I love your new attitude, but unfortunately you are not going to fit in well here with that kind of thought process.
   29. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 23, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4675656)
Don't see anything wrong with that. John Mabry has been an excellent hitting coach for the Cardinals, arguably the two best pitching coaches of all time, were a catcher and a minor league retread, ability to play in the majors has very little to do with success as a coach.

In general, I would agree with that. But in this particular instance, I think Francoeur has demonstrated sufficiently, that he doesn't actually understand what a successful approach to hitting in the bigs looks like, that I wouldn't want him anywhere near any of my hitters. It's one thing if you fail because of lack of talent. But Frenchy had talent enough. He simply insisted on flailing away at bad pitches, while mocking the concept of OBP, was impervious and even hostile towards any criticism, and refused to make any adjustments to his game.
   30. Barnaby Jones Posted: March 23, 2014 at 02:17 PM (#4675700)
What's funny is that Francouer is going to be a hitting coach for 40 years, and one day will be teaching youngsters whose parents haven't yet been born how to hit like a big leaguer.


Once Frenchy left the Braves, I have had nothing but good hopes for him. But he does not seem the type to be a hitting coach. The concept of adjustments has always seemed completely foreign to him.
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: March 23, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4675705)
In general, I would agree with that. But in this particular instance, I think Francoeur has demonstrated sufficiently, that he doesn't actually understand what a successful approach to hitting in the bigs looks like, that I wouldn't want him anywhere near any of my hitters. It's one thing if you fail because of lack of talent. But Frenchy had talent enough. He simply insisted on flailing away at bad pitches, while mocking the concept of OBP, was impervious and even hostile towards any criticism, and refused to make any adjustments to his game.


Yet he has mentioned time and time again that he needs to work on his discipline. Just because he can't follow his own advice, is no reason to think he doesn't understand it. Many people think it's nearly impossible to change a player's tendencies once they reach the majors, the only thing a hitting coach really does is scout the opposition and relay it to the player and work on mechanics and situational hitting. You're not ever going to change a players tendencies, and to think you can would be indicative of a hitting coach who is going to fail spectacularly.
   32. flournoy Posted: March 23, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4675943)
The concept of adjustments has always seemed completely foreign to him.


I disagree. Every year we were treated to countless articles about Francoeur's "new approach." Maybe his new approaches weren't any good, I don't know.

Either way, I wouldn't regard the sound bites a player gives the media as particularly indicative one way or the other about his philosophy or training regimen.
   33. greenback calls it soccer Posted: March 25, 2014 at 10:57 PM (#4677055)
Via MLBTR and the Padres beat writer for mlb.com, Jeff Francoeur has signed a minor league deal with the Padres.

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