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Monday, October 28, 2013

It’s in the Cards for Jonny Gomes - GammonsDaily.com

Some good Gammons.

There will not be a thousand New Englanders waiting to be allowed through the gates of the new Busch Stadium Monday night, and there will not be thousands of Cardinal fans along Yawkey Way this week; it’s two, not 86 years since they last won the World Series.
But, as the Bill DeWitt’s Cardinal employees proved in 2004, this is a special franchise, and as close to 40,000 Wednesday sing along with Bob Marley, the Cardinal players will be reminded that, as Matt Holliday says, “there is no place like Fenway Park.” Obstruction, pickoffs, air mails, popups, Matt Adams and Jonny Gomes, this is the unimaginable played out by the two best teams in baseball in the two best baseball towns in America, and as Pedroia constantly reminds us, “one game, one play, one mistake does not define who either of us really is.”

Jim Furtado Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:11 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, red sox, world series

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4587075)
Oh, headline writer, I see what you did there.
   2. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4587088)
Classic Gammo. Some nice personal notes on Gomes love of baseball as a fan beyond just being a player.
   3. Publius Publicola Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4587103)
I love how Gammons refuses to forget about Toe Nash.
   4. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4587104)
This is what you have to write about to avoid writing about the sloppy, terrible baseball being played.
   5. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4587115)
I know, they need crisp clean performances like the Atlanta Braves put on. You wouldn't need to worry about any missed fielding plays when they were at bat, because they'd swing straight through all the pitches. And Gold Glover* Dan Uggla would show us how to really play 2b, unlike this Pedroia stiff.

* As in, he plays like his glove is made of actual metal
   6. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 28, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4587135)
11 errors in 4 games. Spin that #### like you think it's gold if you like. The rest of us recognize #### baseball when we see it.
   7. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 03:26 PM (#4587231)
How can you recognize it? You don't even watch it.
   8. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 28, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4587251)
How can you recognize it? You don't even watch it.


B-REF has these links that show the box scores. 11 errors. 4 games.
   9. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: October 28, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4587260)
For someone who's not watching the WS (which would indicate not caring) you have awfully strong opinions about it.

The series has been very, very tense and exciting for the most part. Errors, no errors, this has been one hell of a series. There's your spin right there.
   10. Davo Dozier Posted: October 28, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4587263)
D Ortiz a really good game last night.

But I was disappointed with C Buchholz. 4 3 1 0 3 2? Unacceptable.
   11. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4587280)
Sam isn't allowed to watch baseball games as a 4th level Sabervore. He's required to sit in his mother's basement instead, subsisting on box scores and play-by-play information. 5th level sabervores don't even look at the outcomes of pitches, they just take the batter's component statistics and use them to determine what was most likely to happen based upon pitch location, velocity, break, and whether it was a righty or a lefty. 6th level sabervores are like 5th level sabervores, but also include calculations related to pitch framing and umpire tendencies.
   12. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 28, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4587293)
For someone who's not watching the WS (which would indicate not caring) you have awfully strong opinions about it.


I don't recall making any comment on the WS until Obstruction-gate. I saw another guy mention the errors and thought "they haven't really played that sloppy of ball in the WS have they?" and looked it up this morning. Turns out they have.

The series has been very, very tense and exciting for the most part.


It may have been. I have not suggested that it has not provided sophomoric levels of excitement and entertainment to people who are intent on watching it. I have said that it has been sloppy, terrible baseball.
   13. Davo Dozier Posted: October 28, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4587295)
#12--maybe the Official Scorers are just using a slightly more liberal definition of "error" than they did during the regular season?
   14. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 28, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4587308)
#12--maybe the Official Scorers are just using a slightly more liberal definition of "error" than they did during the regular season?


I guess that's possible, but it seems a bit of a stretch. The simpler explanation is that the teams are playing sloppy, error ridden baseball. I watched the video of Obstruction-gate. That's pretty clearly an error on the catcher's throw (though I think they gave it to the 3B due to the lunacy of that rule's written form.) I saw a clip of a "hit" falling between a Cards pitcher and Yadi Molina that was lifted straight out of the Bad News Bears. I see no reason to expand the explanation pool here when "they're just playing badly" would seem to suffice.
   15. The Marksist Posted: October 28, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4587337)
"The baseball I am not watching is terrible. Those enjoying it are dumb. No rebuttal is possible."
   16. Nasty Nate Posted: October 28, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4587348)
**I don't even own a TV**
   17. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 28, 2013 at 05:05 PM (#4587370)
what's a TV?
   18. Davo Dozier Posted: October 28, 2013 at 05:11 PM (#4587377)
I only watch TV ironically.
   19. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4587380)
I only read this website about watching a game on TV ironically.
   20. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: October 28, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4587444)
#12--maybe the Official Scorers are just using a slightly more liberal definition of "error" than they did during the regular season?

I don't categorically remember all the errors of this series individually. But for example the early E8 in Game 4 was neither sloppy play nor a bad decision by the scorer.

We might do well to recognize that 11 errors in 4 games - a number which I have not looked up or confirmed - might be too small of a sample size to be significant in concluding that the Series so far has been characterized by sloppy play.
   21. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: October 28, 2013 at 06:59 PM (#4587474)
Only 1 person is doing that, and said person proudly acknowledges that he's not even watching the games.
   22. PreservedFish Posted: October 28, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4587498)
This world series has been quite a boon to Sam's online persona.
   23. bobm Posted: October 28, 2013 at 08:04 PM (#4587514)
* Daniel Nava will miss eight days after he accidentally swallowed a moose whole.

* Reports are that John Lackey has looked very good coming back from his bloody pelvis, and he's as jittery as ever.

* David Ross was a born failure, and nearly everybody said it was a good thing he became a hitter, because failure is expected, instead of being a highfalootin dentist, or starting a teapot farm (where failure really means starting a worm farm), but nobody loses all the time.

* Will Middlebrooks is not going to re-sign with the Red Sox. Ben Cherington will trade him for a song, but he's asking for "Gimme A Film Director" by Greenville Teapot, which is unrealistic in this market.

* From the mouths of mouses: Matt Carpenter says, "When I first saw Lance Lynn, I thought he was a priest. He has the physique of a flat screen."

* Shane Robinson is going to bounce back now that he has had throat surgery, signing Jake Westbrook and Jaime Garcia protect the Cardinals young pitchers...but it's Kolten Wong, out of Wheeling, West Virginia, with the power and excited work ethic, who is the one to watch.

* OK, the Red Sox didn't have the best offense, but look at the talent: Xander Bogaerts (who is loved like Brett Gardner by several teams), Christian Vazquez, and Ryan Kalish would start for almost any other team, and they will all be scrambling for enough playing time to make John Farrell clean.


http://www.humbug.com/diamond/notes.html
   24. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: October 28, 2013 at 08:29 PM (#4587578)
I love the Diamond Notes generator.
   25. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 29, 2013 at 12:52 AM (#4588206)
We might do well to recognize that 11 errors in 4 games


And now only 11 errors in 5 games!
   26. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 29, 2013 at 12:56 AM (#4588207)
Rickey!
Tell us the truth, you are standing in for Ray here aren't you? Every topic appears to require one purposeful antagonist just to rile things up. So kudos to you for playing that role here. Trolling is just so droll, just let it go mate.
   27. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 29, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4588387)
Trolling is just so droll, just let it go mate.


Perhaps AL ball expects 3-4 errors per game?
   28. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 29, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4588604)
I'd love to find out how many errors the Braves would be making in the World Series as a comparison to the current teams, but it's been so long since they've been there that it probably isn't statistically significant any more.
   29. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 29, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4588607)
(for the record, the Braves made 8 errors on their own in the last 10 World Series games they've played)
   30. Rough Carrigan Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:10 PM (#4588922)
Yes, but that was a long time ago. There might have been different standards then.
   31. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4588940)
Yes, but that was a long time ago. There might have been different standards then.


How exactly does pointing out that the Braves played terrible defensive baseball in the playoffs and WS reduce or counter the fact that the first four games of this WS featured terrible defensive baseball? I mean, I get what you're trying to do here. You're going for the "Sam's a Braves fan, so let's gotcha him with the Braves' defensive problems in the playoffs." But that's stupid, see. I'm well aware of the fact that the Braves have played horrific defense in the playoffs, both recently in the early rounds, and historically in the World Series. It's not exactly a big rhetorical point you're landing here, boys.

The Braves defense in recent and past playoff series was bad.

The defense in the current World Series has also been bad.
   32. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:36 PM (#4588956)
Perhaps AL ball expects 3-4 errors per game?


Huh, funny that the 3 teams who made the least errors this year were Tampa, Baltimore and NY. Boston was 8th...The Braves were 12th. So no I don't think the expectation of AL ball is as you claim it is. I would imagine that pressure does tell in the playoffs and players may be prone to trying to do things they wouldn't normally do(I'm looking at you Red Sox for trying to get runners at 3rd!)

The way you post things just makes it look like sour grapes. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's the way it reads.
   33. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:39 PM (#4588963)
When being accused of trolling I don't generally feel the need to modify tone to come across as the nice guy.
   34. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4588968)
because these are exhibitions games, the errors don't count
   35. dr. scott Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:45 PM (#4588969)
There have also been some really good defensive plays, but those don't show up in the stat sheet. Which brings me to a question... should they, and if not, why not. If an official scorer can easily tell what constitutes an error, ie a play that any competent major league player should have made, is the opposite true? Should that same scorer be able to determine a play that most players would not be able to make? if so it should be a stat if we assume that errors alos mean something.

My guess is that its harder to do the opposite as there is not an unusual event that trigger the question "was that a great play", as there is with errors. The unsual event with errors is obviously not getting an out, which is rare when a ball goes near a fielder. In the case of "great plays" every play that gets an out would have to be judged, as opposed just the small number of plays where there is not an out for errors. Its also confounded by the fact that some errors are not really errors, but missed great plays, and another fielder would not have come close enough for an error to be called... which of course is the main problem with errors to begin with. The same could be true with "great plays" also... see Derek Jeter.

the next question is, if we could easily determine great plays would we expect more or less of them than errors? This is really asking is there a guassian or non-gaussian distribution of skill on plays. Im assuming those that do the advanced defense meteric work know the answer to this question.
   36. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4588972)
When being accused of trolling I don't generally feel the need to modify tone to come across as the nice guy.


Geez, you can be difficult. Your tone was rubbish before the accusations, hence the reason why everyone jumped down your throat in the first place.



   37. Nasty Nate Posted: October 29, 2013 at 05:56 PM (#4588975)
When being accused of trolling I don't generally feel the need to modify tone to come across as the nice guy.




Geez, you can be difficult. Your tone was rubbish before the accusations, hence the reason why everyone jumped down your throat in the first place.


don't goad me while I'm trying to goad people
   38. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 29, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4588985)
because these are exhibitions games, the errors don't count


Not toward the HOF at least.

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