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1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:35 PM (#4110021)Pudge will be remembered here in Michigan as being the first brave soul of the era to sign with the atrocious Tigers, setting off a series of events that found the suddenly admirable team playing in the World Series three seasons later.
The Jayson Werth of his era.
Seconded.
(Listed) at 5'9" and 205#, and therefore the catcher on the All-FLNRSA-Sized All-Star Team. I always keep an eye out for those guys.
I remember thinking at the time that I understood the reasons the Rangers had for letting him go, but looking back I have no idea why the Rangers wouldn't have given him a one-year deal (what he got from the Marlins). At that point, he hadn't played a full season for three years, and looked to be a rapidly aging (though still productive) catcher. Perhaps the Rangers just assumed he'd get a multi-year deal and they wanted no part of it, but certainly it would have been worth their while to take a chance on a one-year deal. But I don't really remember how that all went down.
While I wish that he would have gotten a chance to go for 3,000 hits, but he had a heck of a career and deserves to make the Hall on the first ballot.
I wish he could have gotten there, but 156 more hits is pretty unrealistic at this point. He only had 133 total in his two seasons with Washington.
The last five seasons he's posted a cumulative .265 batting average. Assuming that going forward, he'd need nearly 600 AB to get to 3,000 hits, so even if we make the huge assumption that he can be healthy and start on a regular basis, he's still not getting there this year (he hasn't come close to 600 AB since 1999). Even assuming his career .296 BA, it'd still take a year of uncommonly good health to get him there (about 530 AB, which he hasn't done since 2006).
Ha ha, I had totally forgotten about that. John Hart ftw!
Well he was on those Rangers teams and got pretty big there for a while so.....
As great as he was, his 67.3 career WAR seems surprisingly low. And coincidentally, it's exactly equal to Carlton Fisk.
Pudge was named as a juicer by Canseco, who hasn't been proven wrong yet. It just hasn't been an issue because he wasn't one of the big HR-record guys, never failed a test, and never wagged fingers in front of Congress. He just got small again and kept playing ball. I think it's irrelevant anyway, but barring scandalous disclosures, it's going to be a non-issue for the BBWAA, too.
Isn't that like second or third all time for catchers? Catching is hard.
Edit: Just eyeballing it on BBref, the only catcher I see above Ivan and Fisk is Bench at 71.3.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at, I guess. I would have expected one of the all-time great catchers to top out higher than 67 WAR.
I guess I'd put it this way: if I told you that Jim Thome had a higher career WAR than Ivan Rodriguez (and Johnny Bench for that matter!), would you do a double-take and look it up for yourself? I know I would have if you had told me that. But there it is.
It also helped that he ceased hitting like a star right around the time Juiced came out and the ensuring brouhaha, so he started flying under the radar in the ensuing years. If he had continued putting up huge numbers in the 05/06/07 fallout he probably would have come under the microscope more.
A historic player.
Happy Base Ball
Ahhh yes, a deeevious plan, Mr. Rodriguez! Twirl that moustache.
I don't know. I hope that's true, but we've entered an era of irrational hysteria amongst writers where a player who even LOOKS like he might have used steroids could be left on the outside looking in for several years. What happens next year to Piazza might be a good indicator of Pudge's chances.
Huh? He was?
Rk Yrs From To Age1 Johnny Bench 9 1968 1979 20-31 H
2 Gary Carter 8 1977 1985 23-31 H
3 Ivan Rodriguez 7 1996 2004 24-32
4 Mike Piazza 6 1993 2000 24-31
5 Gene Tenace 6 1974 1979 27-32
6 Yogi Berra 6 1950 1956 25-31 H
7 Mickey Cochrane 6 1929 1935 26-32 H
8 Joe Mauer 5 2006 2010 23-27
9 Ted Simmons 5 1973 1980 23-30
10 Carlton Fisk 5 1972 1990 24-42 H
11 Bill Dickey 5 1933 1939 26-32 H
12 Buck Ewing 5 1883 1889 23-29 H
13 Jorge Posada 4 2000 2007 28-35
14 Jason Kendall 4 1997 2004 23-30
15 Thurman Munson 4 1970 1976 23-29
16 Joe Torre 4 1963 1970 22-29
17 Roy Campanella 4 1949 1955 27-33 H
Come on now, don't get all passive-voiced on us when you're saying something this counterfactual. Regarded by whom?
But Gino Petralli, who had been hurt earlier in the week, was finally placed on the DL that night by the Rangers, and Rodriguez was being called up to go to Chicago on Thursday. So Ivan and Maribel were married by a JOP at 8:30 a.m. at the Tulsa courthouse, then got on a plane for Chicago. The decked out stadium and the relatives were all at the game in Tulsa that night, but no bride & groom, and no home plate wedding. Rodriguez made his MLB debut that night, on the same day as his wedding.
"Receiver," in this context, is not a word referring to catcher defense in general. It has a very specific meaning.
EDIT: Beaten by 6 minutes.
LMFAO. I need to find that original thread.
All you really need to put this idea to bed is to take a look at the Rangers' 2000 and 2001 seasons. Pudge missed a ton of time in both years. Check out what happened to the Rangers team, particularly the pitching staff, when he got out. I invite you to do this yourself because the results are mindboggling.
This is what I was referring to. I have no idea of the basis in fact of it, but given that a lot of the recent research in catcher defense is surrounding pitch framing and general "pitcher handling" it seems unlikely (based on reputation only!) that Pudge is being significantly ripped off in the standard evaluation for defense (like say, Jose Molina).
I certainly have not done the work to determine this, however. I would say that Pudge is shortchanged in terms of WAR regardless if you compare him to other players (especially first basemen).
Also my impression.
There were definitely whispers along those lines early in his career, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was some truth there. He was very young when he came up, had an astonishingly strong and accurate throwing arm, and a ton of confidence. Young, super talented guy blows off advice and instruction from wiser elders... go figure. Once he grew up a bit, you stopped hearing that stuff.
Anyway, he was a truly great player and one of my favorites from the 90s. Thanks for the memories Pudge.
lord, he couldn't hit anymore though.
Some of this came from Bobby Witt, who was unable to get any of his pitches over the plate in his original Texas stint, didn't get along well with Pudge, and didn't like throwing to him. When Witt returned to Texas in the late '90s, his maturity and control had increased, suddenly Pudge was no problem, and the "whispers" dissipated. I don't know how much of this issue was due to language problems, or to the unsurprising inability of two proud young guys of any ethnicity to get along well, but the Anglo media in Texas tended to see it as Pudge's problem, not Witt's.
This idea was not a stathead creation.
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