Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, July 11, 2018

Jacob deGrom Has Been Cy Young Worthy This Season

“His goal from the outset was to win the Cy Young and so far he is making a case to do just that. He has been a joy to watch ... “

How low can you go?  The first starting pitcher with under 13 wins to win the Cy? 11? 9?

Shades of Nolan Ryan ... who didn’t win his.

Lest we forget Posted: July 11, 2018 at 10:57 PM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cy young award, degrom, nolan ryan, wins

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5708957)
deGrom has been a joy to watch, the best Met in the post-Wright/Beltran/Reyes era. He's been great this year, and really good for his entire career.
   2. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 12, 2018 at 06:49 AM (#5708966)
I turned on the Phils-Mets game on TV last night and thought that yet another no-name pitcher was mowing down the Phils. Then I realized it was a shorn deGrom. It doesn't look right. ;)

Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?

EDIT: deGrom was pretty awesome last night and he didn't look like he had killer stuff.
   3. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5708969)
There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.
   4. catomi01 Posted: July 12, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5708978)
There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.


As a Long Islander, no trip into the Bronx is "leisurely."
   5. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5708986)
There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.


Have at him., Andy: it'll cost you Miguel Andujar, Justus Sheffield, Clint Frazier and a C+/B prospect.

There will be no negotiation.
   6. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5708998)
it'll cost you Miguel Andujar, Justus Sheffield, Clint Frazier and a C+/B prospect.

There will be no negotiation.


And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.
   7. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5709009)
And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.


Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.

On those rare occasions when the Yanks miss out on a FA signing, we hear their fans bleat "Well, if the Yankees REEEEEEEAAAAALLLLY wanted this guy, they'd have him easy."

Similar principal applies here. If the Yankees REEEEEEEAAAAALLLLY want deGrom...
   8. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5709033)
And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.

Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.


Look, I know this. And in the Mets' place I'd be doing the same thing.
   9. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5709037)
Look, I know this. And in the Mets' place I'd be doing the same thing.


I know you knew. Of course, being a Met fan, my not-so-secret fear is that they'll pull another Scott Kazmir move and sell deGrom for pennies on the buck.
   10. Master of the Horse Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5709053)
Robert Gsellman has won six games in relief for the Mets. How many of those were from DeGrom games?
#toolazytocheckbaseballreference
   11. Howie Menckel Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5709054)
Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?

yes, and they use upside down p's to make the lower case d
   12. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5709056)
Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?


yes, and they use upside down p's to make the lower case d


I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis -- and they absolutely hate the "upside down P" thing. One guy told me "It's stupid and it looks cheap." Par for the course for the Wilpons, I guess.
   13. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5709070)
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 12, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5709074)
I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis
Wow, you really are a Met Fan.
   15. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5709078)
I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis

Wow, you really are a Met Fan.


I met them at an off-season grassroots Fan Fest -- The Queens Baseball Convention. The Wilpon's are too cowardly & penurious to run a team-sponsored off-season caravan -- and they were on a uniform discussion panel. We talked after their session.
   16. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 12, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5709081)
I just looked over the NL leader boards. They're distinctly unimpressive. Right now if I had to pick an MVP front runner I guess I'd come up with Ozzie Albies. But no one is putting up the kind of season where you say "it's his to lose". That is to say, this might be the kind of year in which a pitcher can win an MVP award. deGrom is having the best season among NL pitchers so far. Not that I'm saying that deGrom is going to be an MVP contender, but the field is wide open for a pitcher to take this thing.
   17. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5709084)
I just looked over the NL leader boards. They're distinctly unimpressive. Right now if I had to pick an MVP front runner I guess I'd come up with Ozzie Albies. But no one is putting up the kind of season where you say "it's his to lose". That is to say, this might be the kind of year in which a pitcher can win an MVP award. deGrom is having the best season among NL pitchers so far. Not that I'm saying that deGrom is going to be an MVP contender, but the field is wide open for a pitcher to take this thing.


Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.
   18. ajnrules Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5709114)
Robert Gsellman has won six games in relief for the Mets. How many of those were from DeGrom games?

Believe it or not, last night was the very first one. There were two from Thor, two from PJ Conlon, and one from Zack Wheeler.

Of course he was partially responsible for one of deGrom's losses. On June 23 he relieved deGrom with the Mets down 3-2 and proceeded to give up five runs on a squeeze play and a Matt Kemp grand slam. Then Bautista hit a home run that could have gotten deGrom off the hook if Gsellman hadn't allowed those extra runs.
   19. Adam Starblind Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5709116)
Justus walks too many batters. He's basically what Wheeler was in the minors (though Wheeler was more acclaimed), and that would be a fair swap now.
   20. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5709121)
Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.

Yes, but is it in their interest. I love DeGrom, but he is 30 and I don't know if the Mets are going to compete in the next few years while his is still on his A game. Several of the Mets young pitchers are older than you would think. Wheeler is 28. Matz is 27. Lugo is 27.

And the Mets certainly don't have much in the pipeline. Not when you compare them to the Phils and Braves.
   21. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5709129)
Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said


I'm going to have to stop you right there...
   22. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5709130)
I know you knew. Of course, being a Met fan, my not-so-secret fear is that they'll pull another Scott Kazmir move and sell deGrom for pennies on the buck.

And that's something I'd only wish upon some post-1962 NL expansion team, not a franchise like the Mets.
   23. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5709133)
Yes, but is it in their interest. I love DeGrom, but he is 30 and I don't know if the Mets are going to compete in the next few years while his is still on his A game. Several of the Mets young pitchers are older than you would think. Wheeler is 28. Matz is 27. Lugo is 27.


True, but per another thread - this midseason trade market seems awful flush with available pitching... plus the Machado stalking.

I tend to agree that the Mets should probably be exploring deals, but thanks to the fact that they're all under team control for several more years - no real reason they should feel any need to do something this month. They can wait until the offseason or even next year's deadline. Pitchers being pitchers with their inherent risk, of course.

   24. Rough Carrigan Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5709139)
Isn't DeGrom the skinniest of that crop of great Met pitching prospects? And aren't we usually told that the stockier Harvey or Roger Clemens types are the guys more likely to be able to stand up to the wear and tear?
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5709143)
Justus walks too many batters. He's basically what Wheeler was in the minors (though Wheeler was more acclaimed), and that would be a fair swap now.

Wheeler is already pushing 5 years of service time. He's a FA before DeGrom. No way does he bring back a top-50 prospect.
   26. Adam Starblind Posted: July 12, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5709164)

Wheeler is already pushing 5 years of service time. He's a FA before DeGrom. No way does he bring back a top-50 prospect.


I know what Wheeler's service time is. It means he's not a rental. Justus also is not universally a top 50 prospect, and his K/IP dropped a lot when he got to AAA. I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.
   27. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 12, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5709170)
Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.


And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

I knew Baltimore was atrocious this year, but 38.5 games behind on July 12? Yooouusshh.
   28. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5709174)
I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.


Which is why I would also ask for Andujar, Frazier & a C+/B level prospect to go along with him.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5709175)

I know what Wheeler's service time is. It means he's not a rental. Justus also is not universally a top 50 prospect, and his K/IP dropped a lot when he got to AAA. I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.


Neither would I. We're not talking about DeGrom, who's one of the top-5 pitchers in baseball. We're talking about Zack Wheeler, who's got a 92 career ERA+, and has serious health concerns.
   30. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 12, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5709180)
I'll side with the Yankee fans on this one... I'm not seeing how there's much of a return to be had for Wheeler. He's now what, four years removed from what was certainly an encouraging season from a then-24 yo - but let's be honest, was itself just a 1 WAR/97 ERA+/3.55 FIP season.

87 ERA+/3.71 FIP/0.1 WAR this year.

The fact that one gets a final arb year with him doesn't really add much value in my mind. I'd almost see him more as a guy I might for as a toss-in if I were to do a mega deal for Thor or DeGrom.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 12, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5709191)
Which is why I would also ask for Andujar, Frazier & a C+/B level prospect to go along with him.

Which would be ridiculous for the Yankees to give up. That's two guys who are basically league average regulars right now, making the league minimum, plus a top-50 prospect, plus more.

They can get a very good pitcher for any one of those top-3. The Yankees don't have to go all out to win this year. They should be building for a sustained run.
   32. Adam Starblind Posted: July 12, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5709202)
I'll side with the Yankee fans on this one... I'm not seeing how there's much of a return to be had for Wheeler. He's now what, four years removed from what was certainly an encouraging season from a then-24 yo - but let's be honest, was itself just a 1 WAR/97 ERA+/3.55 FIP season.

87 ERA+/3.71 FIP/0.1 WAR this year.


There's a lot of weight being given to his performance since June 1 and his fastball finally coming back to where it was (99). If the reports are true that the Yankees (and other teams) have asked about him, they presumably value him higher than you do.
   33. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5709212)
Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.

And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

That's because the AL this year is historically lopsided. Either the Red Sox, Yankees, Astros, or Indians, and maybe even the Mariners, would be (or should be) favored in a postseason series with any NL team, but then it's also true that the bottom of the power rankings are topheavy with AL teams, which results in those overall interleague numbers.
   34. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 12, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5709220)
There's a lot of weight being given to his performance since June 1 and his fastball finally coming back to where it was (99). If the reports are true that the Yankees (and other teams) have asked about him, they presumably value him higher than you do.


Hey, I'm not saying they should DFA him... I'm just saying that it's hard for me to see him fetching much back.
   35. Walt Davis Posted: July 12, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5709243)
And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

This is the AL Central (vs NL Central). They've gone 23-45 (338) in interleague putting the other 2 divisions (playing their geographic counterparts) at 59-50 (which is not a huge edge). Even the Indians are just 8-6 although they have the Cubs and Brewers out of the way so that could improve.

The AL Central is truly awful, perhaps "historically" awful. They are 34-52 (395) against the ALE and 40-84 (323) vs the ALW. Even the Indians are 22-28 outside their division. KC is a staggering 13-47 which is barely over 200 ball (they're the Spiders!)
   36. Walt Davis Posted: July 12, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5709342)
On Bowden's statement ... it is a weird year for the NL in that Harper's on a down year, Stanton got traded, Bryant's slumped a bit and been hurt, etc. but ...

Realmuto is certainly having a better season than Sanchez and, with defense, is the better player over a longer period, wipes the floor with McCann and has Bowden ever seen the Red Sox catchers? ... Oops, forgot Contreras is the starter, there's a case Sanchez is better than Contreras (don't personally think so) but he still wins over the other two easily.

Freeman laps the field vs Moreland, Gurriel and whatever the Yanks are rolling out at 1B this week.

Altuve clearly wins at 2B, let's wait a bit before we give the edge to Gleyber but Red Sox 2B is a disaster.

Arenado vs. Bregman is probably pretty close but the edge probably has to go to Arenado still, nobody in their right mind would take Andujar or Devers in the short term over Arenado.

Correa is easily the #1 choice at SS but Crawford at least holds his own and probably a bit better than Bogaerts and Didi. (He's older so, longer-term, sure you take one of those guys.)

The NL starting OF is embarrassing but it's not like Houston's OF is tearing it up outside of Springer. WAA puts their OF (overall) behind the Twins.

Maybe Bowden meant a Hou/NYY/Bos all-star team -- NL still wins at C, 1B, and probably 3B. Not that it's anything to brag about, just that Bowden is wrong (surprise!)

Here's your depressing stat of the day. As a whole, the Angels' OF is only 2 wins above average despite Trout being 5.6 wins above average (13 of his 92 starts are at DH which doesn't help but still...)
   37. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:54 AM (#5709402)
just that Bowden is wrong


Well I didn't do the long work like you did, but just being a Red Sox fan tells you his statement was inane. The bottom of the Red Sox order is a Hawkingesque black hole of suck and I'm sure Mitch Moreland, though looking reasonable now, will revert to being...well Mitch Moreland sometime in the near future.

As for DeGrom, would love for the Red Sox to swing a deal for him but realise they don't have anything to part with that would interest the Mets unless they really like Mitch Moreland.
   38. DavidFoss Posted: July 13, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5709422)
lower case last names in history?

I was curious and there have been only 17 of these guys (according to Lahman Database):

Name                       birthYear
Chase       d
'Arnaud       1987
Travis      d'
Arnaud       1989
Yurendell   de Caster      1979
Jacob       deGrom         1988
Ivan        de Jesus       1953
Jose        de Jesus       1965
Tommy       de la Cruz     1911
Mike        de la Hoz      1938
Roland      de la Maza     1971
Francisco   de la Rosa     1966
Jesus       de la Rosa     1953
Tomas       de la Rosa     1978
Luis        de los Santos  1966
Luis        de los Santos  1977
Ramon       de los Santos  1949
Matt        den Dekker     1987
Rick        van den Hurk   1985 


FWIW, there are some other similar names which are in the DB as capitalized (namely a few DeJesus's).

The oldest is Tommy de la Cruz, a Cuban-born Reds pitcher during WWII.
   39. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5709427)
Which would be ridiculous for the Yankees to give up. That's two guys who are basically league average regulars right now, making the league minimum, plus a top-50 prospect, plus more.


Exactly. But if the Yankees REEEEEEAALLLLLY want deGrom...

EDIT: see #7
   40. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5709429)
As for DeGrom, would love for the Red Sox to swing a deal for him but realise they don't have anything to part with that would interest the Mets unless they really like Mitch Moreland.


Jeff Wilpon would probably take that call.
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5709437)
Francisco   de la Rosa     1966
Jesus       de la Rosa     1953
Tomas       de la Rosa     1978
What about Rubby and Jorge?
   42. Nasty Nate Posted: July 13, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5709443)
What about Rubby and Jorge?

Upper case
   43. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5709452)
BBRef has upper case for both Jorge and Rubby, but Wiki has lower case for Jorge.
   44. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5709470)
But if the Yankees REEEEEEAALLLLLY want deGrom...


Ugh, I've heard some fans insist the Yankees are in on Snell, and the Rays would trade him because....reasons.
   45. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5709490)
Ugh, I've heard some fans insist the Yankees are in on Snell, and the Rays would trade him because....reasons.

I only wish, but here's a rumor that's even crazier:

From MLB.com:
Analyzing 5 blockbuster trade proposals
Former GM Jim Duquette weighs in on likelihood of suggested swaps

Proposal No. 4 (via @PeteBell33)

Yankees get: Right-hander Chris Archer
Rays get: Outfielder Clint Frazier, left-hander Justus Sheffield (Yankees' No. 2 prospect) and righty Dillon Tate (No. 9)

A package for Archer would likely start with Miguel Andujar, with Frazier and Sheffield as the second and third pieces. Archer's contract is still one of the best values in baseball, as he's owed only $27.7 million through 2021 if both team options are exercised. If Archer can return to his 2013-15 form -- when he compiled a 3.26 ERA in the difficult American League East -- Tampa Bay may decide to dangle him down the road.

Who says no? The Rays say no, mainly because Archer's value is not at its peak due to his recent DL stint.


Uh, I'm thinking the Yanks are also not going to go for that!

Oh, wait, this is the former Mets GM doing the opinionating. Never mind.
   46. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5709502)
Oh, wait, this is the former Mets GM doing the opinionating. Never mind.


The man who made the aforementioned Scott Kazmir deal.
   47. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5709518)
Who says no? The Rays say no, mainly because Archer's value is not at its peak due to his recent DL stint.


Yeah, it's the DL stint that's sinking his value, certainly not hit his pitching (which isn't bad, just not up to the reputation that Archer has).

Archer definitely does have value, but why would the Yankees send out that much talent for a 100 ERA+ innings eater?
   48. Adam Starblind Posted: July 13, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5709728)
His value is his value. Both teams know he's been on the DL.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Ray (CTL)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogYelich, Betts Win MVPs
(9 - 7:45pm, Nov 15)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(1 - 7:42pm, Nov 15)
Last: Rally

NewsblogJoe Mauer Retires After 15 Seasons
(64 - 7:42pm, Nov 15)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogAL Central Offseason Preview
(9 - 7:41pm, Nov 15)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(362 - 7:38pm, Nov 15)
Last: BrianBrianson

NewsblogRickey Won't Quit
(11 - 7:35pm, Nov 15)
Last: Bote Man

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2298 - 7:33pm, Nov 15)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1213 - 7:22pm, Nov 15)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(198 - 7:15pm, Nov 15)
Last: Roger McDowell spit on me!

Sox TherapyThe Greatest Red Sox Team...EVER!!!!
(75 - 6:51pm, Nov 15)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

NewsblogManny Machado: Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner wants 'essential' chat
(13 - 6:47pm, Nov 15)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

Gonfalon CubsNow what?
(231 - 6:39pm, Nov 15)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogThe greatest under-28 free agents of all time, and where Harper and Machado rank – The Athletic
(20 - 6:18pm, Nov 15)
Last: charityslave is thinking about baseball

NewsblogFox Sports inks multi-year rights agreement with Major League Baseball
(22 - 5:48pm, Nov 15)
Last: Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network)

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-15-2018
(14 - 5:02pm, Nov 15)
Last: Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)

Page rendered in 0.3957 seconds
46 querie(s) executed