deGrom has been a joy to watch, the best Met in the post-Wright/Beltran/Reyes era. He's been great this year, and really good for his entire career.

I turned on the Phils-Mets game on TV last night and thought that yet another no-name pitcher was mowing down the Phils. Then I realized it was a shorn deGrom. It doesn't look right. ;)

Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?

EDIT: deGrom was pretty awesome last night and he didn't look like he had killer stuff.

There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.

There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.

As a Long Islander, no trip into the Bronx is "leisurely."

There's nothing wrong with deGrom's W-L record that a leisurely 9.7 mile trip wouldn't cure.

Have at him., Andy: it'll cost you Miguel Andujar, Justus Sheffield, Clint Frazier and a C+/B prospect.

There will be no negotiation.

it'll cost you Miguel Andujar, Justus Sheffield, Clint Frazier and a C+/B prospect.

There will be no negotiation.

And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.

And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.

Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.

On those rare occasions when the Yanks miss out on a FA signing, we hear their fans bleat "Well, if the Yankees REEEEEEEAAAAALLLLY wanted this guy, they'd have him easy."

Similar principal applies here. If the Yankees REEEEEEEAAAAALLLLY want deGrom...

And meanwhile there's always hope that next year deGrom will become the Mets' answer to the 1972 Phillies' Steve Carlton.

Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.

Look, I know this. And in the Mets' place I'd be doing the same thing.

Look, I know this. And in the Mets' place I'd be doing the same thing.

I know you knew. Of course, being a Met fan, my not-so-secret fear is that they'll pull another Scott Kazmir move and sell deGrom for pennies on the buck.

Robert Gsellman has won six games in relief for the Mets. How many of those were from DeGrom games?
#toolazytocheckbaseballreference

Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?

yes, and they use upside down p's to make the lower case d

Do the Mets have the most lower case last names in history? deGrom, den Decker and the injured d'Arnaud?


yes, and they use upside down p's to make the lower case d

I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis -- and they absolutely hate the "upside down P" thing. One guy told me "It's stupid and it looks cheap." Par for the course for the Wilpons, I guess.

Hmmmm...

I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis

Wow, you really are a Met Fan.

I've talked to the guys over at Stitches -- the company that does the actual sewing of the Mets' unis

Wow, you really are a Met Fan.

I met them at an off-season grassroots Fan Fest -- The Queens Baseball Convention. The Wilpon's are too cowardly & penurious to run a team-sponsored off-season caravan -- and they were on a uniform discussion panel. We talked after their session.

I just looked over the NL leader boards. They're distinctly unimpressive. Right now if I had to pick an MVP front runner I guess I'd come up with Ozzie Albies. But no one is putting up the kind of season where you say "it's his to lose". That is to say, this might be the kind of year in which a pitcher can win an MVP award. deGrom is having the best season among NL pitchers so far. Not that I'm saying that deGrom is going to be an MVP contender, but the field is wide open for a pitcher to take this thing.

I just looked over the NL leader boards. They're distinctly unimpressive. Right now if I had to pick an MVP front runner I guess I'd come up with Ozzie Albies. But no one is putting up the kind of season where you say "it's his to lose". That is to say, this might be the kind of year in which a pitcher can win an MVP award. deGrom is having the best season among NL pitchers so far. Not that I'm saying that deGrom is going to be an MVP contender, but the field is wide open for a pitcher to take this thing.

Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.

Robert Gsellman has won six games in relief for the Mets. How many of those were from DeGrom games?

Believe it or not, last night was the very first one. There were two from Thor, two from PJ Conlon, and one from Zack Wheeler.

Of course he was partially responsible for one of deGrom's losses. On June 23 he relieved deGrom with the Mets down 3-2 and proceeded to give up five runs on a squeeze play and a Matt Kemp grand slam. Then Bautista hit a home run that could have gotten deGrom off the hook if Gsellman hadn't allowed those extra runs.

Justus walks too many batters. He's basically what Wheeler was in the minors (though Wheeler was more acclaimed), and that would be a fair swap now.

Maybe so, but the Mets hold all the cards, here. They can afford to play take-it-or-leave-it.

Yes, but is it in their interest. I love DeGrom, but he is 30 and I don't know if the Mets are going to compete in the next few years while his is still on his A game. Several of the Mets young pitchers are older than you would think. Wheeler is 28. Matz is 27. Lugo is 27.

And the Mets certainly don't have much in the pipeline. Not when you compare them to the Phils and Braves.

Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said

I'm going to have to stop you right there...

I know you knew. Of course, being a Met fan, my not-so-secret fear is that they'll pull another Scott Kazmir move and sell deGrom for pennies on the buck.

And that's something I'd only wish upon some post-1962 NL expansion team, not a franchise like the Mets.

Yes, but is it in their interest. I love DeGrom, but he is 30 and I don't know if the Mets are going to compete in the next few years while his is still on his A game. Several of the Mets young pitchers are older than you would think. Wheeler is 28. Matz is 27. Lugo is 27.

True, but per another thread - this midseason trade market seems awful flush with available pitching... plus the Machado stalking.

I tend to agree that the Mets should probably be exploring deals, but thanks to the fact that they're all under team control for several more years - no real reason they should feel any need to do something this month. They can wait until the offseason or even next year's deadline. Pitchers being pitchers with their inherent risk, of course.

Isn't DeGrom the skinniest of that crop of great Met pitching prospects? And aren't we usually told that the stockier Harvey or Roger Clemens types are the guys more likely to be able to stand up to the wear and tear?

Justus walks too many batters. He's basically what Wheeler was in the minors (though Wheeler was more acclaimed), and that would be a fair swap now.

Wheeler is already pushing 5 years of service time. He's a FA before DeGrom. No way does he bring back a top-50 prospect.

Wheeler is already pushing 5 years of service time. He's a FA before DeGrom. No way does he bring back a top-50 prospect.

I know what Wheeler's service time is. It means he's not a rental. Justus also is not universally a top 50 prospect, and his K/IP dropped a lot when he got to AAA. I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.

Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.

And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

I knew Baltimore was atrocious this year, but 38.5 games behind on July 12? Yooouusshh.

I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.

Which is why I would also ask for Andujar, Frazier & a C+/B level prospect to go along with him.

I know what Wheeler's service time is. It means he's not a rental. Justus also is not universally a top 50 prospect, and his K/IP dropped a lot when he got to AAA. I certainly wouldn't trade deGrom for a package built around him.

Neither would I. We're not talking about DeGrom, who's one of the top-5 pitchers in baseball. We're talking about Zack Wheeler, who's got a 92 career ERA+, and has serious health concerns.

I'll side with the Yankee fans on this one... I'm not seeing how there's much of a return to be had for Wheeler. He's now what, four years removed from what was certainly an encouraging season from a then-24 yo - but let's be honest, was itself just a 1 WAR/97 ERA+/3.55 FIP season.

87 ERA+/3.71 FIP/0.1 WAR this year.

The fact that one gets a final arb year with him doesn't really add much value in my mind. I'd almost see him more as a guy I might for as a toss-in if I were to do a mega deal for Thor or DeGrom.

Which is why I would also ask for Andujar, Frazier & a C+/B level prospect to go along with him.

Which would be ridiculous for the Yankees to give up. That's two guys who are basically league average regulars right now, making the league minimum, plus a top-50 prospect, plus more.

They can get a very good pitcher for any one of those top-3. The Yankees don't have to go all out to win this year. They should be building for a sustained run.

I'll side with the Yankee fans on this one... I'm not seeing how there's much of a return to be had for Wheeler. He's now what, four years removed from what was certainly an encouraging season from a then-24 yo - but let's be honest, was itself just a 1 WAR/97 ERA+/3.55 FIP season.

87 ERA+/3.71 FIP/0.1 WAR this year.

There's a lot of weight being given to his performance since June 1 and his fastball finally coming back to where it was (99). If the reports are true that the Yankees (and other teams) have asked about him, they presumably value him higher than you do.

Jim Bowden was on Sirius-XM yesterday and said he'd take any one of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Astros lineups over the NL All-Stars.

Pretty remarkable.

And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

That's because the AL this year is historically lopsided. Either the Red Sox, Yankees, Astros, or Indians, and maybe even the Mariners, would be (or should be) favored in a postseason series with any NL team, but then it's also true that the bottom of the power rankings are topheavy with AL teams, which results in those overall interleague numbers.

There's a lot of weight being given to his performance since June 1 and his fastball finally coming back to where it was (99). If the reports are true that the Yankees (and other teams) have asked about him, they presumably value him higher than you do.

Hey, I'm not saying they should DFA him... I'm just saying that it's hard for me to see him fetching much back.

And yet, NL leads AL 95-82 (785 runs to 748).

This is the AL Central (vs NL Central). They've gone 23-45 (338) in interleague putting the other 2 divisions (playing their geographic counterparts) at 59-50 (which is not a huge edge). Even the Indians are just 8-6 although they have the Cubs and Brewers out of the way so that could improve.

The AL Central is truly awful, perhaps "historically" awful. They are 34-52 (395) against the ALE and 40-84 (323) vs the ALW. Even the Indians are 22-28 outside their division. KC is a staggering 13-47 which is barely over 200 ball (they're the Spiders!)

On Bowden's statement ... it is a weird year for the NL in that Harper's on a down year, Stanton got traded, Bryant's slumped a bit and been hurt, etc. but ...

Realmuto is certainly having a better season than Sanchez and, with defense, is the better player over a longer period, wipes the floor with McCann and has Bowden ever seen the Red Sox catchers? ... Oops, forgot Contreras is the starter, there's a case Sanchez is better than Contreras (don't personally think so) but he still wins over the other two easily.

Freeman laps the field vs Moreland, Gurriel and whatever the Yanks are rolling out at 1B this week.

Altuve clearly wins at 2B, let's wait a bit before we give the edge to Gleyber but Red Sox 2B is a disaster.

Arenado vs. Bregman is probably pretty close but the edge probably has to go to Arenado still, nobody in their right mind would take Andujar or Devers in the short term over Arenado.

Correa is easily the #1 choice at SS but Crawford at least holds his own and probably a bit better than Bogaerts and Didi. (He's older so, longer-term, sure you take one of those guys.)

The NL starting OF is embarrassing but it's not like Houston's OF is tearing it up outside of Springer. WAA puts their OF (overall) behind the Twins.

Maybe Bowden meant a Hou/NYY/Bos all-star team -- NL still wins at C, 1B, and probably 3B. Not that it's anything to brag about, just that Bowden is wrong (surprise!)

Here's your depressing stat of the day. As a whole, the Angels' OF is only 2 wins above average despite Trout being 5.6 wins above average (13 of his 92 starts are at DH which doesn't help but still...)

just that Bowden is wrong

Well I didn't do the long work like you did, but just being a Red Sox fan tells you his statement was inane. The bottom of the Red Sox order is a Hawkingesque black hole of suck and I'm sure Mitch Moreland, though looking reasonable now, will revert to being...well Mitch Moreland sometime in the near future.

As for DeGrom, would love for the Red Sox to swing a deal for him but realise they don't have anything to part with that would interest the Mets unless they really like Mitch Moreland.

lower case last names in history?

I was curious and there have been only 17 of these guys (according to Lahman Database):



FWIW, there are some other similar names which are in the DB as capitalized (namely a few DeJesus's).

The oldest is Tommy de la Cruz, a Cuban-born Reds pitcher during WWII.

Which would be ridiculous for the Yankees to give up. That's two guys who are basically league average regulars right now, making the league minimum, plus a top-50 prospect, plus more.

Exactly. But if the Yankees REEEEEEAALLLLLY want deGrom...

EDIT: see #7

As for DeGrom, would love for the Red Sox to swing a deal for him but realise they don't have anything to part with that would interest the Mets unless they really like Mitch Moreland.

Jeff Wilpon would probably take that call.

Francisco   de la Rosa     1966
Jesus       de la Rosa     1953
Tomas       de la Rosa     1978

What about Rubby and Jorge?

What about Rubby and Jorge?

Upper case

BBRef has upper case for both Jorge and Rubby, but Wiki has lower case for Jorge.

But if the Yankees REEEEEEAALLLLLY want deGrom...

Ugh, I've heard some fans insist the Yankees are in on Snell, and the Rays would trade him because....reasons.

Ugh, I've heard some fans insist the Yankees are in on Snell, and the Rays would trade him because....reasons.

I only wish, but here's a rumor that's even crazier:

From MLB.com:

Analyzing 5 blockbuster trade proposals
Former GM Jim Duquette weighs in on likelihood of suggested swaps

Proposal No. 4 (via @PeteBell33)
Yankees get: Right-hander Chris Archer
Rays get: Outfielder Clint Frazier, left-hander Justus Sheffield (Yankees' No. 2 prospect) and righty Dillon Tate (No. 9)

A package for Archer would likely start with Miguel Andujar, with Frazier and Sheffield as the second and third pieces. Archer's contract is still one of the best values in baseball, as he's owed only $27.7 million through 2021 if both team options are exercised. If Archer can return to his 2013-15 form -- when he compiled a 3.26 ERA in the difficult American League East -- Tampa Bay may decide to dangle him down the road.

Who says no? The Rays say no, mainly because Archer's value is not at its peak due to his recent DL stint.

Uh, I'm thinking the Yanks are also not going to go for that!

Oh, wait, this is the former Mets GM doing the opinionating. Never mind.

Oh, wait, this is the former Mets GM doing the opinionating. Never mind.

The man who made the aforementioned Scott Kazmir deal.

Who says no? The Rays say no, mainly because Archer's value is not at its peak due to his recent DL stint.

Yeah, it's the DL stint that's sinking his value, certainly not hit his pitching (which isn't bad, just not up to the reputation that Archer has).

Archer definitely does have value, but why would the Yankees send out that much talent for a 100 ERA+ innings eater?

His value is his value. Both teams know he's been on the DL.