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Wednesday, March 15, 2017

Javy Baez’s tag game is so strong he doesn’t even have to look

Jim Furtado Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:58 AM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: javy baez, puerto rico, wbc

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   1. zonk Posted: March 15, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5417577)
That's one of the great things about baseball - and Javier Baez.

The concept of tagging a baserunner has been around as long as baseball. Surely, there have been 'great taggers' in the past and one could certainly make the case that only modern digital technology has allowed us to truly appreciate or comprehend the idea that some fielders are awfully, awfully good at getting the tag on most quickly and efficiently.

Yet, here we are -- a century and half after the game's inception -- lauding our first "star tagger"... It's so omnipresent with Baez, he even stole at least one WS out with a nifty, perfect tag on an attempted steal in full view of the biggest stage in baseball.

At times - and this clip is one of them, but you could probably find a dozen clips from last year, too - it's almost like he managed to conceal magnets in the unis of baserunners and then one his glove, all activated when the ball hits the mitt.
   2. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 15, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5417586)
Javy is awesome and so much fun.
   3. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: March 15, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5417638)
These guys have so much fun. I'm going to be sad when the MLB season comes along and these players get reminded that it's uncouth to ever show any enthusiasm or excitement on the field.
   4. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM (#5417655)
I watched that play live (and on several replays) and never noticed where Baez was (or wasn't) looking. All I thought was, "Wow, nice play," and "Why is Nelson Cruz of all people running?"
   5. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: March 15, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5417668)
Nelson Cruz seems to think he's a much faster player than he actually is.

Here's a video from his Baltimore days of Cruz attempting a game-winning straight steal of home in the bottom of the 10th inning. It goes about as you'd expect.
   6. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5417691)
Here's a video from his Baltimore days of Cruz attempting a game-winning straight steal of home in the bottom of the 10th inning. It goes about as you'd expect.
Oof. Who was the batter?
   7. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 15, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5417697)
So if you're trying that straight steal of home, would it benefit you to take your lead farther into foul territory, far enough out that you'd be out of the peripheral vision of the catcher (or at least into the part of his vision that is partially blocked by the side of his mask)? Or is it likely that the bench would notice you regardless and notify him, and all you'd be doing is increasing the distance to the plate?
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5417701)
Oof. Who was the batter?


Chris Davis. The game conditions made it a good risk. Lefty on the hill, and Chris Davis in the box trying to hit a lefty on the hill. One run wins the game.

The only problem is that Nelson Cruz is too damn slow to be trying to steal home.

So if you're trying that straight steal of home, would it benefit you to take your lead farther into foul territory, far enough out that you'd be out of the peripheral vision of the catcher (or at least into the part of his vision that is partially blocked by the side of his mask)?


If there's a righty in the box, I'd think you'd want to keep the batter in a direct line with you and the catcher as long as you can. With a lefty like you saw there, just take the shortest distance between you and home plate. In either case, be faster than Nelson Cruz.
   9. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5417709)
The only problem is that Nelson Cruz is too damn slow to be trying to steal home.


No one was covering 3rd - it looked like Cruz could have taken much more of a lead before he made the attempt. Looks to me like he just got too antsy.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5417724)
No one was covering 3rd - it looked like Cruz could have taken much more of a lead before he made the attempt. Looks to me like he just got too antsy.


You're right. I didn't notice the shift was on. Given where the 3B was, he probably could have (though a few extra steps and the pitcher may have been alerted and stepped off, but there really was no risk of him being picked off).
   11. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5417736)
Chris Davis. The game conditions made it a good risk. Lefty on the hill, and Chris Davis in the box trying to hit a lefty on the hill. One run wins the game.
With a 2-2 count, agreed. Also, this game took place during his miserable 2014 campaign, where he ultimately posted a .188/.261/.416 slash line.
   12. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2017 at 01:23 PM (#5417742)
I read an article earlier(It was a Yadier Molina specific article on this game) and they were quoting statcast.


The common thread through the game was Molina's defensive work behind the plate. Molina's 1.87-second pop time to nail Cruz in the eighth would have been the 18th-fastest pop time of the 2016 season on a caught stealing at second base. The MLB average pop time on steal attempts of second was 2.01 seconds.
   13. Dock Ellis Posted: March 15, 2017 at 01:41 PM (#5417757)
Fun fact: Javier Baez is actually left-handed, and he was forced to learn how to throw right-handed when they told him to play SS as a kid. Because his glove hand is his natural hand, he is much quicker with the tag than others.
   14. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 15, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5417761)
Another fun fact: Javy Baez.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5417809)

Fun fact: Javier Baez is actually left-handed, and he was forced to learn how to throw right-handed when they told him to play SS as a kid. Because his glove hand is his natural hand, he is much quicker with the tag than others.


There's more than just quickness. During one of those amazing tag plays last year, against Denard Span, he opted to catch the ball with his glove basically on Span's body, rather than catching it a foot or so before it reached him and then trying to sweep the tag backwards (a much slower process). Where you catch the ball can make the difference between out and safe, and he's really good at catching the ball in its optimal location.*

His tagging ability, which is something I don't recall anyone ever touting before, is truly exemplary.

* One downside is it's more likely to lead to a broken arm.

   16. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5417830)
His tagging ability, which is something I don't recall anyone ever touting before, is truly exemplary.


Huh? It was talked about a lot last year in the postseason.


One downside is it's more likely to lead to a broken arm.


Not to rag on you, but has that ever happened? Someone has broken their arm while tagging a runner? I know knees/legs certainly get damaged, and fingers & wrists get hurt by the player sliding, but I can't recall someone with a broken arm. Probably a few instances, just misremembering.
   17. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:13 PM (#5417832)
Huh? It was talked about a lot last year in the postseason.


I was talking about tagging ability in general. I don't recall anyone ever talking about any previous player's skill in that facet of the game before it became a topic of conversation with Baez.
   18. zonk Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5417843)
There's more than just quickness. During one of those amazing tag plays last year, against Denard Span, he opted to catch the ball with his glove basically on Span's body, rather than catching it a foot or so before it reached him and then trying to sweep the tag backwards (a much slower process). Where you catch the ball can make the difference between out and safe, and he's really good at catching the ball in its optimal location.*


Yeah - this is an area where he truly is amazing and unlike anyone I've seen before. I.e., He's certainly exceptionally quick at sweeping the tag (when the throw just isn't where it would pinpoint preferably be). And he's also got an uncanny ability to always get those tags at the right place - or at least, the best possible place - on the baserunner rather than just 'getting the body', but getting it too far up so the toe gets to the bag ahead of the tag.

However, I agree -- the thing that really does seem to set him apart is that sort of other-wordly spatial reckoning ability to mentally judge the base, the baserunner and the ball/trajectory of the throw and get his mitt into the perfect spot such that the ball and mitt meet up in the optimal place to get the tag on the runner before he can get to the base. It's truly uncanny -- and with very, very few exceptions (from memory - on throws where he didn't really have a prayer for out anyway, but managed to do the best one could possibly do) -- he never seems to miss or drop the ball.

BTW - I think we probably should also note that even beyond modern digital capabilities, we might have also found the first thing to like about replay in MLB... Namely, that it's brought Javy's skill at this much more front-and-center than might have otherwise occurred if we were still living in the realm of the TV replay being reduced to a soon-forgotten "too bad, looks like the ump missed the call but it was very close/very bang-bang".

If slap fighting were an Olympic sport - I think he'd be gold medalist every year.
   19. Perry Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5417845)
Not to rag on you, but has that ever happened? Someone has broken their arm while tagging a runner?


If you count wrists, I've seen it happen to first basemen. Albert Pujols in 2011, and back in the 90s, Cliff Floyd almost had his career ended that way.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5417853)
Not to rag on you, but has that ever happened? Someone has broken their arm while tagging a runner? I know knees/legs certainly get damaged, and fingers & wrists get hurt by the player sliding, but I can't recall someone with a broken arm. Probably a few instances, just misremembering.


In 2006, Derrek Lee broke his wrist tagging out Rafael Furcal.

In 1979, SoSHially Unacceptable broke his arm tagging out Terry Wessels. To be fair, I can understand why you might have forgotten that one.
   21. zonk Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5417854)
One thing I'd like to think - or maybe hope - shields Baez from the injury risk somewhat is that he doesn't really apply 'hard tags' nor does he 'apply' tags and hold them, as a 1B might on a pickoff or somesuch.

He does it in a very fluid, sweeping, almost feathery motion. As such, you'd think he'd be better able to avoid the injury risk simply because he's not leaving the wrist/arm in a place where a cleat can pin it against base or somesuch.

IOW - the risk would be that his sort of "pythagorus doing geometry with a mitt, ball and baserunner" happens to connect the triangle at the perfect spot where cleat pins wrist. Otherwise, his tags are generally getting on the baserunner very quickly, but then existing contact just as quickly, once the job is done.
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:39 PM (#5417858)
Broken arms was a bit of hyperbole, but catching the ball on the body is clearly going to leave the infielder more susceptible to minor injury than catching and sweeping will. Hopefully Baez's super human hands prevent this from ever happening.

   23. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5417875)
Someone has broken their arm while tagging a runner?


I would not count the Lee and Pujols plays as anything like tagging someone with your glove on their body. They both extended their arm to catch the ball and had the runner collide with them. Extending your arm straight into someone that is running towards you is very different then slapping someone as they slide by you. If Baez starts trying to catch the ball with his glove in between the runner's foot and the bag then I'd be worried.

Couldn't find info on the Floyd injury.
   24. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:54 PM (#5417878)
Yeah - this is an area where he truly is amazing and unlike anyone I've seen before. I.e., He's certainly exceptionally quick at sweeping the tag (when the throw just isn't where it would pinpoint preferably be). And he's also got an uncanny ability to always get those tags at the right place - or at least, the best possible place - on the baserunner rather than just 'getting the body', but getting it too far up so the toe gets to the bag ahead of the tag.

However, I agree -- the thing that really does seem to set him apart is that sort of other-wordly spatial reckoning ability to mentally judge the base, the baserunner and the ball/trajectory of the throw and get his mitt into the perfect spot such that the ball and mitt meet up in the optimal place to get the tag on the runner before he can get to the base. It's truly uncanny -- and with very, very few exceptions (from memory - on throws where he didn't really have a prayer for out anyway, but managed to do the best one could possibly do) -- he never seems to miss or drop the ball.


You know, he's also pretty damn good at avoiding tags, and that's probably related.
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5417881)
Extending your arm straight into someone that is running towards you is very different then slapping someone as they slide by you


But I'm not talking about slapping someone as they slide by. If you look at the Span play, Baez wasn't slapping a tag on a runner - he caught the ball with his mitt on Span's body. That's more dangerous than sweeping the arm on the runner. I hope he never gets hurt, but he's undoubtedly at greater risk of some injury when he does that.
   26. zonk Posted: March 15, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5417883)
Javy does need a nickname... something like the Rainman of Baseball Trajectory Reckoning is too wordy, but people should work on that.
   27. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5417896)
If you look at the Span play, Baez wasn't slapping a tag on a runner - he caught the ball with his mitt on Span's body.


It was a very good play, and Baez is obviously very, very good at tagging people, but what other option did he have? The ball would have hit Span in the leg, maybe other players just dont catch the ball? I will also reiterate, Baez is expecting contact with the runner and moves his arm WITH the runner, Pujols and Lee were not necessarily expecting contact and weren't able to move their arm with the runner's momentum.,
   28. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5417902)
It was a very good play, and Baez is obviously very, very good at tagging people, but what other option did he have?


Catch the ball before it got to Span's body, which is how most infielders would have played it (and wouldn't have gotten the out in that case). Most infielders don't allow the ball to get that close to the body before they field the throw, which reduces the likelihood of getting the out on such a bang-bang play, but also reduces the injury risk (and possibly increases the chances of fielding it cleanly).

It's one reason that people are taking notice of Baez's skills in this facet of the game in a way that we haven't for previous middle infielders.

   29. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5417907)
but also reduces the injury risk (and possibly increases the chances of fielding it cleanly).


Again, what middle infielder has ever hurt their arm or wrist tagging someone? You keep adding this phantom injury risk. Yes, Baez is great at catching the ball with momentum going towards the runner, I guess we will see if he gets hurt doing it.
   30. SoSH U at work Posted: March 15, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5417912)
Again, what middle infielder has ever hurt their arm or wrist tagging someone? You keep adding this phantom injury risk. Yes, Baez is great at catching the ball with momentum going towards the runner, I guess we will see if he gets hurt doing it.


Are you deliberately missing the point where he caught the ball with his glove on the body, which is different than the way other infielders play these throws? It's not catching the ball with momentum going toward the runner, it's having his glove sitting on the body when he's receiving the throw. His hand has to be there longer than someone who fields the ball in front of the runner and sweeps it. I don't know how you would think it isn't more risky, regardless of how many previous tagging injuries you can remember.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: March 15, 2017 at 05:29 PM (#5417972)
Folks seem to be missing what's most amazing about this play -- he's congratulating the C on the throw before and while he's making his no-look tag, before he even catches the ball.
   32. Khrushin it bro Posted: March 15, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5417998)
He almost missed him on the tag, good thing there is no instant replay for these types of plays in the WBC.
   33. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5417999)

Are you deliberately missing the point where he caught the ball with his glove on the body, which is different than the way other infielders play these throws? It's not catching the ball with momentum going toward the runner, it's having his glove sitting on the body when he's receiving the throw. His hand has to be there longer than someone who fields the ball in front of the runner and sweeps it. I don't know how you would think it isn't more risky, regardless of how many previous tagging injuries you can remember.


But his hand is really not on Span for a longer time. Baez sweeps the glove just like anyone else, he just times it much better, so he catches the ball right when the glove hits the runner, as opposed to catching prior to contact then sweeping.

Baez-Span Tag

Just so we are talking about the same thing - it's the 2nd embedded video. He starts the sweep, catches the ball while in contact with Span, and then continues sweeping so Span doesn't jam his arm.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:25 PM (#5418018)
So Yadier drives in a run, hits a homerun to give the team a lead,(final score 3-1) does a great job of calling the game (per stat cast he got three strikes that should have been balls, including one that got the manager of the other team kicked out of the game for arguing) and throws one of the fastest throws on a steal attempt in the past 12 months in baseball, cementing a win against a team that has won 11 in a row, and we are talking about a guy making a fairly routine tag play, simply because he no looked it?
   35. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:36 PM (#5418021)
He almost missed him on the tag, good thing there is no instant replay for these types of plays in the WBC.

That's why you should look at the runner, and wait to start celebrating.
   36. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:48 PM (#5418028)
There's more than just quickness. During one of those amazing tag plays last year, against Denard Span, he opted to catch the ball with his glove basically on Span's body, rather than catching it a foot or so before it reached him and then trying to sweep the tag backwards (a much slower process). Where you catch the ball can make the difference between out and safe, and he's really good at catching the ball in its optimal location.*
Cal Ripken taught me¹ that trick about 25 years ago or so. He noted that it's instinctual to reach out for the ball (and, of course, on force plays it's exactly what you want to do) but the ball moves much faster than your arm, so on a tag play you have to go against that instinct and catch the ball at the base.

¹And by "taught me" I don't mean he and I interacted in the slightest. It was on a pregame show or something one time.
   37. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5418031)
I don't think Molina had much to do with the strikes that should have been balls. There were at least three of those when PR was at bat too. But this play was all Yady, to the point that Baez didn't really have to do much of anything but congratulate his catcher on an amazing throw. The fact that Javy is a catch-and-tag savant is indisputable and incredible, but it wasn't what made this play.
   38. zonk Posted: March 15, 2017 at 06:53 PM (#5418034)
¹And by "taught me" I don't mean he and I interacted in the slightest. It was on a pregame show or something one time.


Was there a random guy in a chicken suit running around and Ten Dogs in a turban?
   39. Rough Carrigan Posted: March 15, 2017 at 07:01 PM (#5418040)
So what? Jeter didn't even have to tag the runner.
   40. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5418046)
I don't think Molina had much to do with the strikes that should have been balls. There were at least three of those when PR was at bat too. But this play was all Yady, to the point that Baez didn't really have to do much of anything but congratulate his catcher on an amazing throw. The fact that Javy is a catch-and-tag savant is indisputable and incredible, but it wasn't what made this play.


I honestly didn't see any of this live, just the article I linked above gave Yadi credit. (I edited my comment but it was too late, to indicate I was mostly joking)

   41. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2017 at 07:23 PM (#5418051)
Folks seem to be missing what's most amazing about this play -- he's congratulating the C on the throw before and while he's making his no-look tag, before he even catches the ball.


One of the things I love about the WBC is reading the interviews and comments of "competitors" in the majors talking about players on their WBC teams... I don't care if we as fans aren't taking this seriously(at least in the U.S.) The participants are taking this seriously... This is much different than the all star game, where nobody cares.

I've seen probably a dozen + articles on this WBC, and not once did I get the impression that this was an exhibition or time off or whatever, this is something that the players care about. Whether MLB or US fans care about it, is irrelevant, this has a pride for every team playing in it.
   42. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 15, 2017 at 07:30 PM (#5418056)
So Yadier drives in a run, hits a homerun to give the team a lead,(final score 3-1) does a great job of calling the game (per stat cast he got three strikes that should have been balls, including one that got the manager of the other team kicked out of the game for arguing) and throws one of the fastest throws on a steal attempt in the past 12 months in baseball, cementing a win against a team that has won 11 in a row, and we are talking about a guy making a fairly routine tag play, simply because he no looked it?

Delicious. I love it.
   43. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5418062)
Delicious. I love it.


And I forgot to mention a sign at the game from a kid in the stands.

“Forget Disney, I wanna see Yadi,”
   44. Brian C Posted: March 15, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5418065)
Yadi's OK, but with the Cardinals franchise quickly fading into obscurity, it's not surprising that Javier Baez is stealing headlines from him. And that's one steal Yadier Molina can't stop with a quick throw.
   45. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 15, 2017 at 08:46 PM (#5418077)
Five years ago, if you had said "Wouldn't it be cool if there was a guy who was so good at tagging that people liked to watch him tag, and it actually made him a more valuable defensive player," people would have thought you were nuts.

That's one thing that's so great about Javy. He's doing things people never even contemplated before.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: March 15, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5418083)
This is really impressive. Weird and stupid but impressive.

Also, nice work Davo on the Cruz video. How could such a ridiculous happening not be a famous event?
   47. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 15, 2017 at 08:59 PM (#5418084)
Fun fact: Javier Baez is actually left-handed, and he was forced to learn how to throw right-handed


I might be mis-remembering, but I heard the same about Brooks Robinson.

The participants are taking this seriously... This is much different than the all star game, where nobody cares.


That's the thing, the players seem to be pretty concerned about the result, and yet they are still having a good time. Funny that you can actually play a game, try to win AND still enjoy it!
   48. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 16, 2017 at 01:59 AM (#5418149)
I might be mis-remembering, but I heard the same about Brooks Robinson.


You're quite correct. Robinson writes, and does everything except play baseball, left-handed.

"It helped me get my glove in the right spot," Robinson admitted. "I eat left-handed. I write left-handed. Ping-pong, tennis, shoot a rifle left-handed. So I do everything [left-handed] except play baseball. Threw right and hit right.

"So it's sort of strange, but it certainly helped me fielding."


http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/09/post_359.html



   49. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: March 16, 2017 at 03:00 AM (#5418151)
He's doing things people never even contemplated before.


I dunno, doing spectacular things in the field so that people forget you're an extremely limited hitter is as old as the game itself.
   50. Walt Davis Posted: March 16, 2017 at 03:18 AM (#5418153)
So Yadier drives in a run, hits a homerun to give the team a lead,(final score 3-1) does a great job of calling the game (per stat cast he got three strikes that should have been balls, including one that got the manager of the other team kicked out of the game for arguing) and throws one of the fastest throws on a steal attempt in the past 12 months in baseball, cementing a win against a team that has won 11 in a row, and we are talking about a guy making a fairly routine tag play, simply because he no looked it?

You should work in the NFL front office.

That's why you should look at the runner, and wait to start celebrating.

You should work in the NFL front office.

I swear, you two would complain about the Washington Generals falling for the basketball under the jersey trick again.

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