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Tuesday, December 04, 2018

Jay Bruce on being traded by the Mets again: ‘I wish everybody there the best’

Former Mets outfielder Jay Bruce said he wasn’t as surprised at being traded for the third time in the past two and a half years.

“Honestly, it’s just another trade now,” Bruce said, according to the New York Post’s Mike Puma, after he was included in the seven-player blockbuster trade that brought Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz to New York. “The third trade doesn’t hold quite the shock as the first couple do.”

The Mets dealt Bruce, Anthony Swarzak and three prospects—OF Jarred Kelenic and RHPs Justin Dunn and Gerson Bautista—to the Mariners for Diaz, the 24-year-old All-Star closer and Cano, the veteran second baseman who has five years remaining on his 10-year deal.

At what point does Jay Bruce officially become the Player To Be Named Later?

QLE Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:48 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: jay bruce, mets, trades

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5793655)
Do you guys play the game where you try to guess a player's most similar and then go to BBREF to see if you got it right? I just NAILED this one (through age 31)--Tom Brunansky. Feel like a million bucks this morning.
   2. The Duke Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5793656)
When the Hall ballot came out, I checked on Omar Vizquel and more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot
   3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:08 AM (#5793662)
When the Hall ballot came out, I checked on Omar Vizquel and more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot


Among the six who are in the Hall, he has a significantly lower career WAR value than all but Fox and Maranville (in some cases, 20+ WAR). He's also significantly below Dahlen, who isn't in.
   4. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5793667)
Among the six who are in the Hall, he has a significantly lower career WAR value than all but Fox and Maranville (in some cases, 20+ WAR). He's also significantly below Dahlen, who isn't in.


His point was that more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot.
   5. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5793668)
His point was that more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot.
...which entirely assumes facts not in evidence.
   6. Ziggy's screen name Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5793674)
Man that most-similar-at-age thing really breaks down for older players. Vizquel's most similar age 45 player is Julio Franco, who was a first baseman hitting 300 with a 111 OPS+ at that age. (And, of course, had four years left in the bag.)
   7. Rally Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5793679)
Do you guys play the game where you try to guess a player's most similar and then go to BBREF to see if you got it right? I just NAILED this one (through age 31)--Tom Brunansky. Feel like a million bucks this morning.


It's a great comp, but I would not have gotten that one. I have an irrational block against comparing batters who hit from a different side of the plate. Looking at most similar by age, Bruce is #1 for Brunansky for ages 24 to 31.

Bruce's #1 is Bruno for age 27-29, and again for 31. But somehow his top age 30 is Reggie freaking Jackson. That's a comp that people would have dreamed on when he was drafted and blasting through the minors. But at age 30 Bruce's best OPS+ was 126 (in only 97 games), while Reggie had 3 years north of 160, an MVP season, and 4 top 5 finishes. Unadjusted stats I guess.
   8. Ziggy's screen name Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5793680)
And hey, as long as we're talking about old players: will Bartolo Colon get a contract for 2019? He was bad last year, but no worse than lots of 4th/5th starters. He still doesn't walk anybody, and still doesn't strike anybody out. Really a Twins kind of pitcher, although he's already had his run there. Maybe someone like the Reds could use him. Presumably he wouldn't cost much more than the minimum.
   9. Rally Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5793683)
Presumably he wouldn't cost much more than the minimum.


Yeah, but salary isn't the issue with Bartolo. If you take him in, you have to feed him.
   10. JJ1986 Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5793686)
I would have gone with Geoff Jenkins or Jeromy Burnitz for Bruce. I think they're both better than he is, though.
   11. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5793689)
His point was that more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot.
...which entirely assumes facts not in evidence.


The fact is that more than half his comps were all of famers.

Am I in the twilight zone? It could not be more obvious that The Duke was saying if you look at the BBREF comps, they support his hall of fame case because a bunch of them are in the hall of fame. Then somebody chimes in with the observation that they all have more WAR, which is equally obvious--I haven't seen anyone on this site try to make a case that Vizquel is actually qualified (because he's clearly not), and The Duke wasn't doing that either.



   12. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5793690)


I would have gone with Geoff Jenkins or Jeromy Burnitz for Bruce. I think they're both better than he is, though.


Burnitz is on the list.
   13. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5793693)
I've been waiting for Sean to improve the similarity scores by including a simple era adjustment for about 15 years. Bruce's "by age" list includes far superior hitters such as Reggie Jackson and Darryl Strawberry - I presume their triple crown totals are superficially similar.
   14. Swoboda is freedom Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5793714)
This must be a tough trade for Bruce. Seattle is going to be horrible for the next few years. I like Seattle as a city, but I believe they have the worst travel schedule (longest flights) of all the MLB teams.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5793717)
Maybe he enjoys the time in the air, watching movies in his comfy seat with top notch headphones.
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5793734)
This must be a tough trade for Bruce. Seattle is going to be horrible for the next few years. I like Seattle as a city, but I believe they have the worst travel schedule (longest flights) of all the MLB teams.

2019 will be his 12th MLB season, he must be used to the [First Class] travel by now, so a few more hours in the air shouldn't matter much. Seattle isn't going to win that many games, but Bruce will get paid the same win or lose, and he likely won't be challenged for playing time, affording him an opportunity to make a case for another MLB contract after his age-33 2020 season.
   17. filihok Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5793739)
I've been waiting for Sean to improve the similarity scores by including a simple era adjustment for about 15 years. Bruce's "by age" list includes far superior hitters such as Reggie Jackson and Darryl Strawberry - I presume their triple crown totals are superficially similar.

Agreed, relative to league average would be good.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5793743)
Yeah, but salary isn't the issue with Bartolo. If you take him in, you have to feed him.
Plus, the visuals in the postgame showers.
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5793746)
Am I in the twilight zone? It could not be more obvious that The Duke was saying if you look at the BBREF comps, they support his hall of fame case because a bunch of them are in the hall of fame.
The "fact not in evidence" that was assumed was that HOF comps necessarily leads to "baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot."
   20. geonose Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5793788)
Unless things have changed a lot in the 16 years since I last worked for an airline, teams do not fly first class. They charter planes with commercial airlines, and the airlines use a typical fleet plane for the flight. The players (mostly) sit in the coach section, although certain high-ranking vets may get to sit in first class.

Sure, they may get three seats per player to spread out across, but it's not like flying first class.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5793790)
What about basketball teams? They must require special seats.
   22. JL72 Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5793805)
What about basketball teams? They must require special seats.


Many teams used to have their own plane, but the NBA signed a charter agreement with Delta.

Detroit Pistons' Roundball One Grounded
   23. Rally Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5793821)
From what I remember, the bad boy Pistons were the first team to have their own plane sometime in the late 80s.
   24. Rally Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5793822)
I also remember seeing the Indians' plane in 1989. It was definitely not first class.
   25. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5793833)

The "fact not in evidence" that was assumed was that HOF comps necessarily leads to "baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot."


It seemed obvious to me that by "baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot" The Duke was simply describing the fact that more than half the comps are hall of famers, so if you look at that (the subject of our discussion) he ticks the box. I don't think it's reasonable to interpret him to mean that the page as a whole ticks the box for the HOF, because that is absurd.
   26. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5793835)



I also remember seeing the Indians' plane in 1989. It was definitely not first class.


Just don't get on a boat with any 1989 Indians.
   27. BillWallace Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5793845)
and he likely won't be challenged for playing time


Yeah this is the most salient fact to me. He could get run out there 150 times this year if healthy, something he probably wouldn't get on too many teams.

Imo this trade is a big win for Bruce.
   28. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5793878)
His point was that more than half his comps were hall of famers so even baseball reference would tick his box on the ballot.
I don't know anyone lower on Vizquel as a HoFer than Sean Forman.
   29. akrasian Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5793896)
Imo this trade is a big win for Bruce.

Lower taxes, too. At least until he's moved in a deadline trade.
   30. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5793898)
I don't know anyone lower on Vizquel as a HoFer than Sean Forman.


I don't know why I am so vigorously defending The Duke for his comment, but there is no reasonable way to interpret him as referring to Sean Forman's opinion.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5793903)
Even if you interpret it as, "the presence of multiple HOFers on his comp list is, inherently, evidence supporting his candidacy," the conclusion still doesn't necessarily follow from the premise, as post 3 points out.
   32. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5793929)
#3 is worse than all of the other obtuse responses combined. But this will be my last post on this topic. The Duke, if he cares, can speak for himself.

Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday season.
   33. Howie Menckel Posted: December 04, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5793952)
From what I remember, the bad boy Pistons were the first team to have their own plane sometime in the late 80s.

yes. Chuck Daly concluded that flying out the night after a game when playing road back-to-backs was a competitive advantage.

so if the Pistons visited Indiana Tues night and Cleveland Wed night, the plane would leave Indianapolis around 11 pm and get to Cleveland by midnight. players would be fresher than just hanging out for a night in Indianpolis and then having an early flight on Wed and also a game that night.
   34. The Duke Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:09 PM (#5793993)
It was tongue in cheek but it’s really cool to be quoted so much so thanks to all of you. If that’s my 15 minutes I’m pretty satisfied
   35. Srul Itza Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5794026)
It was tongue in cheek


Tongue-in-cheek is lost on people with stick-in-ass,
   36. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5794030)
Oh FFS. Of course it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. And Vlad started debating it. That's what started this whole silly thing.
   37. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5794037)
Tongue-in-cheek is lost on people with stick-in-ass,
Occupational hazard. They implant the stick when you pass the bar exam.
   38. Adam Starblind Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5794039)
Mean people suck.
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5794040)
Just to be clear, 37 was self-deprecating.
   40. manchestermets Posted: December 05, 2018 at 05:46 AM (#5794055)
Unless things have changed a lot in the 16 years since I last worked for an airline, teams do not fly first class. They charter planes with commercial airlines, and the airlines use a typical fleet plane for the flight. The players (mostly) sit in the coach section, although certain high-ranking vets may get to sit in first class.

Sure, they may get three seats per player to spread out across, but it's not like flying first class.


Can anyone guess what the annual cost difference may be for a team between flying everyone coach and first class? It seems like it may be a false economy - if I'm flying my $100 million staff from Seattle to Tampa I'd want them to be as comfortable and relaxed as possible during the flight so that they're ready to compete when they get there.
   41. The Duke Posted: December 05, 2018 at 06:31 AM (#5794057)
It’s not the cost per se. It’s the convenience. On charter flights there’s no slogging through security and airport terminals, you leave the moment you get there, there’s no delays. I’ve flown charter back and forth to Atlanta from New York and door to door can be 3 hours or less versus 6-8 on commercial.
   42. JL72 Posted: December 05, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5794101)
Occupational hazard. They implant the stick when you pass the bar exam.


That is completely untrue. Some us have the natural advantage of being born with the stick.
   43. KB JBAR (trhn) Posted: December 05, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5794147)
The other day I was biking home and stopped at a red light. Some guy in a balaclava pulled up next to me and said in a really friendly voice, "Hey, how's it goin'?"

I looked him over and got worried, thinking I might offend a friend or colleague by not recognizing him. My facial recognition--which wasn't in play in this case due to the balaclava--is really bad, so I have heightened anxiety around this. A little breathlessly, I replied, "Um.. I don't know who you are?"

He pulled down his balaclava and said, "Oh I was just saying 'hello.'"

"Oh yeah. Being friendly. I get it. It's going pretty well. Nice night for a ride," I replied a little awkwardly.

"Yeah, nice to be out."

"Especially with nice dry pavement...whoap green light. Be safe!"

And I zoomed off, leaving that guy in my dust. :)
   44. Adam Starblind Posted: December 05, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5794194)
He was the one being weird, not you.

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