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Wednesday, December 05, 2012

Jeff Conine wants Hall of Fame to be clean

Says the man who lived off of three spike years during the live ball era.

But “Mr. Marlin” doesn’t think he’ll be the only former player on this year’s Hall of Fame ballot to be denied entrance to Cooperstown. The way Conine sees it, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa — names linked to baseball’s steroids era — probably won’t be getting in, either.

“I think the writers are going to make them pay for that,” Conine said of baseball writers, who vote for the Hall. “I don’t think they’re going to let ’em in.”

If that’s the case, and Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and others whose names were stained by allegations of steroid use during their playing careers don’t land in the Hall, they’ll receive no objection from Conine. He doesn’t believe they deserve to get in, either.

“I think all the guys of my era and my playing time would probably agree, that if you didn’t do anything, you don’t see why guys who did should get into the Hall of Fame,” Conine said.

Like Bonds, Clemens and Sosa, Conine is appearing on the Hall of Fame ballot for the first time. Given that a player needs at least 5 percent of the vote to remain on the ballot in subsequent years, Conine is well aware that this might be the only time he’ll be up for consideration.

Conine was a steady, though not spectacular player, during his 17 major-league seasons, during which he hit .285 with 214 home runs and played for both of the Marlins’ two World Series teams.

Repoz Posted: December 05, 2012 at 06:42 AM | 30 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 05, 2012 at 09:22 AM (#4317415)
Bitter Mouse wants a pony, and Mike Crudale.
   2. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4317447)
Yeah, but what does Jeff Conine know? He's just a guy who was a major leaguer for 17 years in the heart of the Steroid Era. And he doesn't even have a law degree.
   3. McCoy Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4317469)
Hall of Fame doesn't want Jeff Conine.
   4. JJ1986 Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4317471)
There is a lot of editorializing by the author between a few sparse quotes from Conine.
   5. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:32 AM (#4317473)
“I think all the guys of my era and my playing time would probably agree, that if you didn’t do anything, you don’t see why guys who did should get into the Hall of Fame,” Conine said.

But what about the greenies, Jeff? WHAT ABOUT THE GREENIES??!?!?!?!?
   6. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:35 AM (#4317477)
That's ironic. Conine always looked like a user to me.
   7. SG Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4317479)
Jeff Conine wants Hall of Fame to be clean


Grab a mop then.
   8. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4317483)
Yeah, but what does Jeff Conine know? He's just a guy who was a major leaguer for 17 years in the heart of the Steroid Era.


I'm guessing Jeff Conine knew a whole ####### lot of what was going on during his 17 years in the majors, and the fact that he didn't say anything about it during that time suggests that this sanctimonious after-the-fact moralizing should have as much importance in the debate as the load I dropped in the toilet earlier this morning.
   9. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4317489)
I'm guessing Jeff Conine knew a whole ####### lot of what was going on during his 17 years in the majors, and the fact that he didn't say anything about it during that time suggests that this sanctimonious after-the-fact moralizing should have as much importance in the debate as the load I dropped in the toilet earlier this morning.

And if he'd "said something" when he played, he would have been accused of being a sanctimonious moralizer who broke the clubhouse code and accused his betters without evidence because of his unyielding jealousy.(*)

You guys are so predictable, and so clueless.

(*) And of course -- broken record -- insufficiently concerned with greenies.
   10. JJ1986 Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4317490)
And if he'd "said something" when he played, he would have been accused of being a sanctimonious moralizer who broke the clubhouse code and accused his betters without evidence because of his unyielding jealousy.


Just like Frank Thomas was.
   11. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:50 AM (#4317492)
But what about the greenies, Jeff? WHAT ABOUT THE GREENIES??!?!?!?!?

Jeff Conine's opinion has no effect on the chemical makeup of amphetamines or the fact that amphetamines are a performance-enhancing drug banned in international competition and most, if not all, sports that test for drugs.
   12. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4317495)
You guys are so predictable, and so clueless.


Forgot about Frank Thomas, eh?
Who's clueless now?
   13. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4317499)
Forgot about Frank Thomas, eh?
Who's clueless now?


Frank Thomas hasn't named any names, so he hasn't really told us anything other than the fact that MLBers roided, which everyone other than the clueless or wilfully blind already knew.

No principles of logic or sense hold that you had to have said in the 90s that MLBers were roiding in order to credibly opine on the roiders' HOF worthiness in 2012. That's clueless.
   14. calhounite Posted: December 05, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4317500)
Always wondered why all the non-users didn't band together as a political voice in the union to demand drug testing. Probably because there weren't many non-users, and of those, many wanted the option to juice if they found it necessary to extend career.

After getting burned by Clemens who seemed like just a work out fanatic who opposed juicing, only ones would stake didn't juice were those that saved daily piss samples at independent labs (none) or volunteered for a Congressional tooth extraction (Schilling).
   15. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4317536)

Always wondered why all the non-users didn't band together as a political voice in the union to demand drug testing.


Isn't this basically what the White Sox did in 2003? Prior to that, plenty of players (ex. Rick Helling and Frank Thomas) did speak up. Moreover, Selig tried to include testing in the 94 CBA talks. Obviously, the Union's leadership was very anti-testing.

That's ironic. Conine always looked like a user to me.


Sad fact about the steroid era: that was my first thought about Conine, too.
   16. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 05, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4317547)
Frank Thomas hasn't named any names, so he hasn't really told us anything other than the fact that MLBers roided, which everyone other than the clueless or wilfully blind already knew.


Conine didn't even bother to talk about roids during his time, did he? That's why his preaching about the HOF now with regards to other players using is so ridiculous. He wasn't "wilfully blind" or "clueless", right? So if he knew, and he knew his teammates were using them, and he became famous from his teammates using them (two World Series rings), then he's simply a hypocrite.

"I don't mind achieving glory from my teammates using roids, but I sure don't want THEM to achieve glory from using roids, and I'm going to come out now and complain about something that I was perfectly happy to allow when it benefited me."
   17. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4317552)
"I don't mind achieving glory from my teammates using roids, but I sure don't want THEM to achieve glory from them using roids, and I'm going to come out now and complain about something that I was perfectly happy to allow when it benefited me."

He's not complaining, he's saying that users don't belong in the HOF. He had no power to "disallow" (*) he use of roids when he played. It's beyond bizarre that you would criticize a non-user who didn't rat out users more than the users themselves. Jeff Conine wasn't responsible for Barry Bonds roiding -- Barry Bonds was.

(*) And, therefore, he could not have been, as you suggest, "perfectly happy to allow."
   18. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4317591)
Define "Clean". How about if the Hall of Fame honored and represented the achievements and careers of elite players?
   19. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4317602)
It's beyond bizarre that you would criticize a non-user who didn't rat out users more than the users themselves.


It's beyond bizarre that you think that's what I'm doing. I'm criticizing the after-the-fact moralizing by Conine, not the use/non-use of steroids.

Imagine someone came out from one of the investment banking firms and said "I think my co-workers were terrible people! They broke the rules!" well after the 2008 banking crisis happened. If we found out that the complainer was someone who worked in the same department, didn't break the rules (but knew all about it), but got a nice chunk of the company profit-sharing because of their co-workers illegal actions, aren't we allowed to bad-mouth the complainer?

   20. Blastin Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4317608)
No, that person did nothing wrong whatsoever, clearly.
   21. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4317614)
Imagine someone came out from one of the investment banking firms and said "I think my co-workers were terrible people! They broke the rules!" well after the 2008 banking crisis happened. If we found out that the complainer was someone who worked in the same department, didn't break the rules (but knew all about it), but got a nice chunk of the company profit-sharing because of their co-workers illegal actions, aren't we allowed to bad-mouth the complainer?

The analogy's off. The i-banking Conine equivalent would be a pre-crash Merrill or Bear manager saying, "I don't think Jimmy Cayne or Stan O'Neil should be inducted into the Finance Hall of Fame." I see nothing wrong with that, and certainly nothing "hypocritical."
   22. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4317645)
I don't have a problem with excluding players that tested positive for banned substances (Palmeiro, Manny) or admitted to using (McGwire). Not voting for guys like Bagwell and Piazza based on circumstantial evidence is BS, though.

Also, the author, not Conine, is the one naming names here. Conine's statements in the excerpt are fairly benign.
   23. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4317659)
“I think all the guys of my era and my playing time would probably agree, that if you didn’t do anything, you don’t see why guys who did should get into the Hall of Fame,” Conine said.


Because they were better players than you?

Hope that helps.
   24. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4317675)
Because they were better players than you?

Hope that helps.


I'm pretty sure he considered that possibility, and rejected it.
   25. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4317691)
The analogy's off. The i-banking Conine equivalent would be a pre-crash Merrill or Bear manager saying, "I don't think Jimmy Cayne or Stan O'Neil should be inducted into the Finance Hall of Fame." I see nothing wrong with that, and certainly nothing "hypocritical."


Well, the analogy was going to be rough because there is no banking HOF.

The basics are:

1) Know your co-workers are doing something "wrong".
2) Do nothing about it at the time.
3) Reap "profits" from their misdoings.
4) Complain well after the fact about OTHER company's workers who did something "wrong", without mentioning your own co-worker's misdoings.

#4 is especially interesting since I don't think Conine has admitted his own (World Series winning) teams had PED users, has he?
   26. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4317700)
By the "just look at him" gold standard, Conine is guilty. He had huge biceps by the end of his career, much bigger than when he started, and his upper body was out of proportion with his waistline.

I'll bet he had bacne also.
   27. Urkel's Boner Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4317733)
Not wanting steroid users in the HOF and being a former steroid user yourself do not need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe his opinion is based on first-hand knowledge on how much of an edge juicing can provide and he feels remorse over it.
   28. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4317742)
Whole lotta nothing going on here.

Beware all newcomers! this is not the usual level of engagement.. above wordage represents mid-winter, dull winter meetings, caged up growling..

do visit again, perhaps late february..

thank you
   29. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4317826)

Not wanting steroid users in the HOF and being a former steroid user yourself do not need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe his opinion is based on first-hand knowledge on how much of an edge juicing can provide and he feels remorse over it.


Yes, I agree with this. However, I think there's a huge gap between failing the sniff test with no other evidence and, say, huge reams of evidence collected through exhaustive investigation (Bonds). Do you agree or disagree?

   30. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4318043)
Plus, Berman used to call him "the Barbarian".

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