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Sunday, July 24, 2011

Jenkins: Nyjer Morgan: Is flamboyance a winning look?

Or as the chicken parmigiant Michael the K said yesterday…“It looks like Jemile Weeks goes to the same barber as his brother.” (in-studio stale Snicker bars abound)

Morgan was simply a disgrace in center field Friday night, at least by modern-day standards. The bleacher fans were riding him, as is their custom with most any opposing outfielder, and Morgan heard every word. He routinely engaged them with words and sweeping gestures, at least one of them carrying the hint of malice, and created a tempestuous atmosphere that easily could have led to alcohol-fueled retaliation.

Duane Kuiper chided Morgan on the KNBR/Comcast postgame show, saying it made no sense to incite fans in that manner. Brewers manager Ron Roenicke delivered the same message to Morgan after the game, saying it was OK to “be yourself” on the field, but only to a point. Asked by reporters how he felt about the fan abuse, a congenial Morgan replied, “I love it.”

Really? You actually enjoy it? “F- yeah,” he said with a smile.

“The guys on the team really like this guy,” said a source close to the Brewers. “He is not malicious in any way. He’s funny, good-natured, pleasant to be around. But he’s an entertainer. He’s flamboyant.”

Repoz Posted: July 24, 2011 at 12:38 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, giants, nationals

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 24, 2011 at 02:41 PM (#3884228)
Without Morgan the Brewers would be playing Mark Kotsay in centerfield.

That is all anyone should need to know on determining the player's value.
   2. Steve Treder Posted: July 24, 2011 at 02:47 PM (#3884230)
His decision last night to try and advance from second to third on a pitch that bounced just a couple of feet in front of the catcher with two outs and Braun at the plate wasn't the keenest.
   3. Bob Evans Posted: July 24, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3884237)
He's a former hockey player. They play with emotion.

Tom Glavine almost cracked a smile when he read that.
   4. Dave Spiwak Posted: July 24, 2011 at 03:58 PM (#3884245)
Fans were throwing stuff on the field in the late innings. Morgan's fault?
   5. Steve Treder Posted: July 24, 2011 at 04:07 PM (#3884248)
Fans were throwing stuff on the field in the late innings. Morgan's fault?

Of course not. But that doesn't mean it was appropriate for Morgan to flip off the fans, which he did on Friday night (his explanation that he didn't do it is hilariously phony).

I think it's probably the case that Morgan's a good guy. But he did a dumb thing. It happens to all of us.
   6. DA Baracus Posted: July 24, 2011 at 04:12 PM (#3884249)
He's a former hockey player. They play with emotion.

Tom Glavine almost cracked a smile when he read that.


Nyjer Morgan is the new Darren Erstad.
   7. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 24, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#3884250)
I was about to get annoyed at Nyjer Morgan for swaggering around the outfield all the time...and then I realized this is what David Ortiz does all the time. Cognitive dissonance.
   8. steagles Posted: July 24, 2011 at 05:09 PM (#3884268)
Without Morgan the Brewers would be playing Mark Kotsay in centerfield.
what about gogo?
   9. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 24, 2011 at 06:02 PM (#3884293)
Nyjer does a lot of dumb stuff. He's also got a 127 OPS+ (largely BA driven - would be 2nd in line for the batting title, if he qualified), is an above-average to excellent defender, and can be good for a clubhouse (note: depends on the team).
I'd take him - particularly at the price Milwaukee paid.

Gogo's hurt - he and Morgan were sort of platooning (which explains some of Morgan's good year).
   10. Eric P. Posted: July 24, 2011 at 06:04 PM (#3884295)
Gomez broke his clavicle, could be done for the year.
   11. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 24, 2011 at 06:23 PM (#3884313)
Of course not. But that doesn't mean it was appropriate for Morgan to flip off the fans, which he did on Friday night (his explanation that he didn't do it is hilariously phony).


was he flipping the bird or the horns sign? I'm not spinning, just thought that's what I noticed. He's wound up out there, after calling time after his 2B, he got his hands in the air like he was about to go off the top ropes on somebody. I do think he knows exactly what he's doing.

His HUA baserunning as noted above was totally inexcusable.
   12. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 24, 2011 at 06:55 PM (#3884337)
I saw the activity in real time and then replays and while the act is provocative there was no definitive view that showed Morgan did indeed raise his middle finger to the fans.

Though he was certainly working to provoke said fans.

It being a Joe West crew the umpiring has provoked just as much reaction.
   13. Steve Treder Posted: July 24, 2011 at 07:01 PM (#3884343)
I saw the activity in real time and then replays and while the act is provocative there was no definitive view that showed Morgan did indeed raise his middle finger to the fans.

Though he was certainly working to provoke said fans.


Agreed and agreed. From the camera angle you can't see exactly what he flipped. But it wasn't the thumbs-up sign, or an "A-OK!". And his explanation that all he was doing was indicating that there were now two outs is a hoot.
   14. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 24, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3884358)
Frankly, I was more irritated by Weeks not sliding better into home plate last night to avoid the swipe tag. And don't get me started on that sad sack of sh*t Casey McGehee getting picked off third for no purpose.

Folks can rail on Morgan but Casey wandering down the third base line like a drunk trying to find his car was beyond ridiculous.
   15. Steve Treder Posted: July 24, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3884380)
Frankly, I was more irritated by Weeks not sliding better into home plate last night to avoid the swipe tag. And don't get me started on that sad sack of sh*t Casey McGehee getting picked off third for no purpose.

Folks can rail on Morgan but Casey wandering down the third base line like a drunk trying to find his car was beyond ridiculous.


Entirely agreed. It isn't often that one can say with assurance that bad baserunning cost a team a game, but bad baserunning cost the Brewers the game last night.

McGehee was unbelievable. Amazingly stupid.
   16. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 24, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#3884398)
I have worked to be supportive of management but McGehee still playing regularly in late July is a d*mning indictment of the organization.

Betancourt, as sad as this is to write, is likely the best option on the roster and in the organization. For now.

But the Brewers have OPTIONS with Casey. And while they have dabbled mostly they are taking a wait and see approach.

That's fine in early May. But not NOW. McGehee stinks on the field. He stinks on the bases. He stinks at bat.

He provides NO value. none. He is a sinkhole of s*ck.

I become severely depressed every time he waddles onto my television screen.
   17. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: July 24, 2011 at 08:30 PM (#3884428)
I have worked to be supportive of management but <strike>McGehee</strike> Mathis still playing regularly in late July is a d*mning indictment of the organization.

<strike>Betancourt</strike> Hank Conger<strike>, as sad as this is to write, </strike>is likely the best option on the roster and in the organization. For now.

But the Brewers have OPTIONS with <strike>Casey</strike>. And while they have dabbled mostly for five years they are taking a wait and see approach with Mathis.

He stinks on the bases. He stinks at bat.

He provides NO value. none. He is a sinkhole of s*ck.

I become severely depressed every time he waddles onto my television screen.


This all looks a lot better to my eyes now...

EDIT: Why doesn't that crap work!!!
   18. Flynn Posted: July 24, 2011 at 08:39 PM (#3884432)
Morgan and the bleachers at AT&T Park have previous. He seems to be big on letting people know he hears the heckling, and that just encourages the crowd more. I sat in the bleachers for a game when he was playing with the Nats and he seemed to cup his hand to his ear after every pitch.
   19. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2011 at 08:40 PM (#3884433)
Because it is with [ not <

Like so
I have worked to be supportive of management but McGehee Mathis still playing regularly in late July is a d*mning indictment of the organization.

Betancourt Hank Conger, as sad as this is to write, is likely the best option on the roster and in the organization. For now.

But the Brewers have OPTIONS with Casey. And while they have dabbled mostly for five years they are taking a wait and see approach with Mathis.

He stinks on the bases. He stinks at bat.

He provides NO value. none. He is a sinkhole of s*ck.

I become severely depressed every time he waddles onto my television screen.


   20. DA Baracus Posted: July 24, 2011 at 09:16 PM (#3884444)
Player on the road gets heckled, gives some back to the fans, unless he actually flipped the bird, what's the big deal? I was at a game once were Raul Mondesi was getting it from the fans and he put his glove behind his back and shook it in a "yeah, #### you" kind of way. Outside of getting a reaction out of him, nobody cared.
   21. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2011 at 09:23 PM (#3884445)
Why is flipping them the bird a big deal?
   22. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2011 at 09:26 PM (#3884448)
my turn:


I have worked to be supportive of management but became less than enthusiastic about the astros Organization when drayton mclane made it plain that 2007 was all about prima donnaing craig biggio at the expense of the entire season, and his drop in IQ to less than dead when he screwed up the entire team in 08 by refusing to admit that there was such a thing goin down as hurricane IKE

is a d*mning indictment of the organization.

the lousy players on the field (except bourn and pence who will be gone in a few short weeks) and the lousy pitchers (except for wandy and bud norris,)

as sad as this is to write, is likely the best ONLY option on the roster and in the organization. For now years and years because drayton picked the lousiest/cheapest GM he could find and he has done a worse job than tim purpura at building the minors - yes it's possible - and he didn't get much back for the big names he DID trade. and based on his history, he will most likely not get anything good for bourn, pence and wandy neither.

But the Brewers have OPTIONS with Casey. And while they have dabbled mostly in ex-philLies and crappy free agents and relievers on the scrap heap they are taking a wait and see approach because mclane doesn't care whnat happens to this franchise and he hasn't cared for 3 years and the new owner, if approved has said on the record that he IS going to lower the payroll and will not spend on the major league team - and his debt load is astronomical and all the profits sucked from the yankees/redsox and MLbam are going into his own pocket or to pay the debt load.

That WASN'T fine in early May. But not NOW McGehee every (swear words) astros player not named pence or bourn stinks on the field. He stinks on the bases. He stinks at bat.

He provides NO value. none. He is a sinkhole of s*ck.

I become severely depressed every time he waddles onto my television screen.


i am fast running out of excuses to explain why i even bother to watch. i stand behind no woman in my awed admiration for harvey (and the other brewers fans guys don't come here no mo) and russ/vlad/MWE for continuing to watch and care about their teams which were astros terrible for years and years and years

it's getting to be that i would almost rather watch lifetime/jersey shore/all the "reality" shtt on tv than watch the astros find new and inventive ways to uck-say
   23. Lars6788 Posted: July 24, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#3884450)
Morgan is a FrankenEckstein sort of a player - a gritty, gutty hard playing guy, but prone to outbursts and not reacting well to things that happen to him on the field.
   24. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: July 24, 2011 at 09:32 PM (#3884452)
McGehee stinks on the field. He stinks on the bases. He stinks at bat.

But does he lollygag?
   25. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: July 24, 2011 at 10:37 PM (#3884479)
Thanks McCoy. Didn't know the bracket was the answer. The bigger question is why does it show up correctly in the live preview? Regardless, thanks McCoy.
   26. Dale Sams Posted: July 24, 2011 at 10:46 PM (#3884480)
I was about to get annoyed at Nyjer Morgan for swaggering around the outfield all the time...and then I realized this is what David Ortiz does all the time


Is Ortiz signing autographs? If the ball hits him is it still in play?
   27. tshipman Posted: July 24, 2011 at 11:46 PM (#3884488)
I don't really get why it's a deal if Morgan flips the fans off. I mean, he'll have to be suspended or whatever because of the children, but I don't really care.
   28. Steve Treder Posted: July 24, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#3884490)
I don't really get why it's a deal if Morgan flips the fans off.

Seriously? You think professional teams and leagues don't care if their athletes flip off fans (or otherwise engage in gestures of rudeness and contempt to fans) during games? Isn't something they have a policy about?
   29. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:19 AM (#3884503)
I can't decide if I want to root for Nyjer or boo him.


I don't really get why it's a deal if Morgan flips the fans off. I mean, he'll have to be suspended or whatever because of the children, but I don't really care.


I said the same thing when I flipped off one of my customers, but the Nazis in HR thought otherwise!
   30. tshipman Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:46 AM (#3884507)
Seriously? You think professional teams and leagues don't care if their athletes flip off fans (or otherwise engage in gestures of rudeness and contempt to fans) during games? Isn't something they have a policy about?


No, I mean, I get why it's a deal that he might be suspended, but I don't get why people here would actually care. I mean, if the fans are getting on him, and he flips the bird, it ain't no thing in my mind.
   31. KJOK Posted: July 25, 2011 at 02:39 AM (#3884523)
I know times have changed, but these flipped off/obscene gesture discussions always remind me of Gary Templeton. August 26, 1981, Templeton lead off in the home half of the first, and when the third strike was dropped by the catcher, he didn't run to first, so the catcher made an easy throw to first, and Templeton was boo-ed.

In the bottom of the 3rd, while he was on deck, the fans were still getting on him, and he made an 'obscene gesture' (was listening on the radio, but I think he grabbed his crotch area...). The home plate umpire immediately ejected him, and Whitey Herzog ran out of the dugout, grabbed him, and practially threw him into the dugout. Then, Templeton was suspended and spent several weeks in the 'psych ward' of a local hospital/treatment center.
   32. thetailor Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:41 AM (#3884541)
On a Wednesday in 1999 or 2000, (a quick look on BB-Ref leads me to believe it was April 26th, 2000) Rickey Henderson turned to my friends and I in the left field bleachers at Shea Stadium, pointed directly at us, and gave us the finger.

It was awesome. One of my favorite in-stadium moments. True story.
   33. Something Other Posted: July 25, 2011 at 08:19 AM (#3884593)
@30: I see your point. Somehow, for no good reason whatsoever, professional sports has devolved into performance art where fans, behind fences and parapets, scream the vilest abuse at players while the players are required to bear that abuse (which in other circumstance would result in immediate physical violence) with complete stoicism, else be punished.
   34. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:39 PM (#3884619)
I like my beer clod, my TV loud and my centerfielders FLAMboyant...

I know times have changed, but these flipped off/obscene gesture discussions always remind me of Gary Templeton.


I'm always reminded of Stefan Effenberg in the 94 WC. I always like to pretend that's where the use of 'effing' comes from.

Anyways, as far as attributing blame in this case, I think the buck stops with MLB and the teams, for failing to keep their fans in check. If they don't care that their players have to put up with this, it's one thing, but you loose all right to act surprised, when they react instead of remaining calm and composed. The characterization of Morgan's behaviour as disgraceful by the author, is in itself a disgrace. I would like to see how he would cope if faced with such hostility. my guess is 'not well'.

Anyways, to bring this back to European football, - because I know you all care so much about it - when they finally came around to the conclusion that the behaviour of fans was becoming too vile, they actually did something about it. Excessive slurs directed at players, objects thrown on the pitch, and crowds 'invading' the pitch can net the team anything from fines and home games played with no supporters, to automatic forfeits and points deductions. Magically, the behaviour of fans is much improved.
   35. whoisalhedges Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:48 PM (#3884623)
#16 -- Dunno, even with the defensive liabilities, I'd rather see Gamel than Yuni at third. I mean really, is he going to be any worse with the leather than Casey? At the very least, Mat should be platooning with McGehee or Betancourt, with Wilson at short.

As far as the damning indictment of sticking with him for so long... I'm not surprised in the slightest. Remember Bill Hall in '08? Once it became clear that he was just NOT going to be hitting righties, but Nedley kept sending him out there day after day after... Our Brewers have some pretty messed-up blinders on when it comes to third basemen who used to have some value. At least Billy could field his position; Casey's a statue at the hot corner who doesn't walk and only has mid-range power. He's a guy who NEEDS to hit .300 to be worth a roster spot; and, well, he ain't.
   36. Dan Evensen Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:57 PM (#3884627)
Anyways, to bring this back to European football, - because I know you all care so much about it - when they finally came around to the conclusion that the behaviour of fans was becoming too vile, they actually did something about it. Excessive slurs directed at players, objects thrown on the pitch, and crowds 'invading' the pitch can net the team anything from fines and home games played with no supporters, to automatic forfeits and points deductions. Magically, the behaviour of fans is much improved.

You might want to add that the Taylor Report effectively forced teams to move to all-seater stadiums, rather than cramping members of the lower classes onto terraces. I also suspect that something has been done to cut down the sale of alcohol near the ending moments of matches, though I don't know for sure.

It really is fun to watch vintage games from the 1960s and 1970s, though. There is something magical about seeing the fans run out onto the pitch to celebrate the winning goal scorer after a tense match, and it's always fun to watch the crowd sway from front to back on the Kop at old Anfield. However, not having to deal with stupid pitch invasion and streaker interruptions makes the new setup worth it -- and it sure is a hell of a lot more appealing than those huge chain fences that were once around the front rows.
   37. Ron J Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:18 PM (#3884645)
#34 I'm pretty sure that Morgan could have asked that the fans in question be ejected -- if they were really that far over the line.

Umpires have ordered fans ejected on a few occasions where stadium security has been slow to act.

Now there is a line where a fan won't be ejected, but in general the league doesn't want situations where players will go into the stands (as has happened a few times in my lifetime in hockey as a for instance) and has little to gain by not taking some form of action.

On the other hand, most players probably won't ask the umpire to take action. Just because.

Worth noting that before Ty Cobb went into the stands after Luecker he had asked the ump to do something about him.
   38. Perry Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:48 PM (#3884756)
I know times have changed, but these flipped off/obscene gesture discussions always remind me of Gary Templeton. August 26, 1981, Templeton lead off in the home half of the first, and when the third strike was dropped by the catcher, he didn't run to first, so the catcher made an easy throw to first, and Templeton was boo-ed.

In the bottom of the 3rd, while he was on deck, the fans were still getting on him, and he made an 'obscene gesture' (was listening on the radio, but I think he grabbed his crotch area...). The home plate umpire immediately ejected him, and Whitey Herzog ran out of the dugout, grabbed him, and practially threw him into the dugout. Then, Templeton was suspended and spent several weeks in the 'psych ward' of a local hospital/treatment center.


I was there, 20 or so rows back from the Cardinals dugout, so I had a perfect view. He wasn't on deck, he was halfway between home and first, returning to the dugout after failing to run out another ball. And what he did was face teh stands, thrust out his crotch and point to it with both hands. Then, as you said, when he got a couple steps from the dugout Herzog grabbed him and flung him into it. And of course traded him for Ozzie Smith that winter.

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