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Wednesday, August 16, 2017

Jered Weaver Announces Retirement |

He had a great career.

Jim Furtado Posted: August 16, 2017 at 02:35 PM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, jared weaver, padres

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   1. Baldrick Posted: August 16, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5514571)
But Krusty, why now? Why not three years ago?

More seriously, it's always sad to watch a genuinely good pitcher lose his stuff, and credit to Weaver for doing his best to stick it out over the last couple years. He was still a perfectly cromulent pitcher as recently as 2014 and wasn't actually truly terrible until this year. Over 20 WAA through age 31. That's a really good career, even with the struggles over the last couple years.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5514585)
Fitting, in that he was pretty much the only ML player left that he could retire.
   3. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5514586)
if he had retired after the 2014 season, he'd have a .655 w/l percentage and ERA+ of 123. These last 3 seasons dragged that down to .605 and 111
   4. Spahn Insane Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5514590)
Fitting, in that he was pretty much the only ML player left that he could retire.

Now that's just plain mean.

I approve.
   5. BDC Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5514591)
I saw Weaver pitch quite often, and always thought of him as a tough customer. Oddly enough, he was only 6-8 with an ERA of 4.61 in Arlington. But he was 12-0 against the Rangers in Anaheim.
   6. PreservedFish Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5514593)
#3 - the $40,000,000 he earned probably makes up for it.
   7. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 16, 2017 at 03:43 PM (#5514604)
I count myself lucky to have been able to see him pitch locally in college and then in the pros. In the olden days, writers would have called him "classy" — he had nothing overpowering, but he could throw three quality pitches for strikes, and you could count on him to head up the top of your rotation week after week, month after month, year after year. The fan base loves him, and he earned every drop of our affection.

Vaya con dios, Weave.
   8. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 16, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5514641)
Patrick Dubuque‏ @euqubud 3h3 hours ago
Jered Weaver actually announced his retirement two weeks ago but the news just got here
   9. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 16, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5514642)
I feel older and older every day
   10. JAHV Posted: August 16, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5514647)
Having been to hundreds of games over my 35 years, his no hitter against the Twins is the only one I've seen in person. It was a lot of fun to watch. He was an entertaining pitcher, both for his arsenal of pitches that, when he was on, he could locate on a pin, and for his fiery demeanor. I'm sad the Angels were never able to get him to the World Series. I'll remember his seasons with the team fondly.

Enjoy retirement, Jered!
   11. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: August 16, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5514660)
I feel older and older every day

The really bad news is, you are older and older every day.
   12. JimMusComp likes Billy Eppler.... Posted: August 16, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5514664)
#8 is flat out brilliant.

Happy retirement, WTY. (Weaver the Younger - a moniker coined in 2007 when Jered was fighting with his brother Jeff to stay in the Angel rotation)...
   13. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: August 16, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5514665)
I like my pitchers big and ugly. Jered Weaver was both.
   14. JAHV Posted: August 16, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5514675)
I like my pitchers big and ugly. Jered Weaver was both.

Yes to: Jered Weaver, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens?

No to: Roy Oswalt, Tim Hudson?
   15. Batman Posted: August 16, 2017 at 05:49 PM (#5514710)
If "big" means weight, the three biggest pitchers according to bb-ref are Jumbos Diaz and Brown sandwiched around CC Sabathia. Play Index doesn't allow you to sort by ugly, but Don Mossi is listed as 6-1, 195 lbs.
   16. Shredder Posted: August 16, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5514717)
I still love the story from his second game as a pro in Rancho Cucamonga.
His second day as a professional baseball player was almost as eventful as the first for pitcher Jered Weaver, the Angels' 2004 first-round pick who signed for $4 million on May 30.

Weaver, who gave up one run and three hits in three innings of his debut for Class-A Rancho Cucamonga on Monday, was ejected in the sixth inning of Tuesday's game against Lake Elsinore for alleged taunting and making gestures toward the umpiring crew.

"Somebody said something that he was acting like he was flipping a coin [at the umpires]," Quakes' Manager Ty Boykin told the North San Diego County Times. "Somebody also said something about him holding up two bats and making bunny ears -- I don't know."
It was a long hold out before he signed, but he pretty much won me over at that moment.
   17. DaVoice of DaPeople Posted: August 16, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5514780)
I remember his no-hitter against the Twins--I feel like a solid dozen solid of his outs were on infield pop ups. Now granted this was against a very pathetic Twins offense, but I still remember thinking it was the most dominant I've ever seen a a pitcher be who wasn't just striking out everyone in sight. There was not a single squarely struck pitch all game.
   18. Rally Posted: August 16, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5514833)
I'll miss Weaver. One thing I can guarantee is he got as much out of his arm as possible. Great competitor. For a while towards the end he had nothing, but still somehow made it work. It just doesn't feel right that it's been 11 years since he was dominating the minor leagues and I kept wondering when the Angels would clear out a rotation spot for him. 11 years ago I was writing lyrics like this, to the music of DreamWeaver:

We just called up a top prospect
Climbed aboard the Jered Weaver bandwagon

Take away this season in last place
and get back into first

Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can pitch into the 7th
Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can strike out the side

Fastball high hit to center field
Into Darin Erstad's glove
Lots of flyballs hit tonight
But you haven't allowed a run

Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can pitch into the 8th
Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can strike out the side

Though the game may be ending soon
You still haven't walked anyone
Keep on pitching like Cy Young
And maybe we'll score a run

Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can pitch into the 9th
Ooh Jered Weaver
I believe you can strike out the side

Jered Weaver....

   19. MikeinMI Posted: August 16, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5514971)
I will always remember Carlos Guillen showing him up.
   20. Hank Gillette Posted: August 17, 2017 at 01:58 AM (#5515077)
Currently tied for 649th all time in BWAR, with Rudy York, Bill White, and Paul Goldschmidt.
   21. ajnrules Posted: August 17, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5515445)
Godspeed to Jered Weaver, the first pitcher in 70 years to retire with exactly 150 wins, after Dizzy Dean and Rube Benton even before him.
   22. DanG Posted: August 17, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5515464)
Pitchers similar to Weaver in 4th-8th seasons, past hundred years:

Player           WAR ERA+     IP  GS WAA/pit From   To   Age  W  L
Carlos Zambrano 25.2  131 1052.0 161    16.8 2004 2008 23
-27 78 40
Sam McDowell    24.6  127 1146.0 161    14.7 1964 1968 21
-25 65 54
Dan Haren       24.0  124 1126.0 169    14.3 2006 2010 25
-29 71 52
'Jered Weaver   23.5  130 1014.0 154    13.9 2009 2013 26-30 78 41'
Johnn Antonelli 23.4  130 1140.0 163    12.0 1953 1957 23-27 79 66
Tim Hudson      23.2  126 1077.1 159    13.6 2002 2006 26
-30 70 43
Bob Shawkey     23.2  130 1058.0 113    13.2 1916 1920 25
-29 78 54
David Price     23.1  127 1090.2 158    13.0 2011 2015 25
-29 75 43
Matt Cain       23.0  126 1099.2 165    14.4 2008 2012 23
-27 63 49
Camilo Pascual  23.0  123  995.2 138    15.3 1957 1961 23
-27 60 63
Dolf Luque      22.9  130 1200.2 138    13.5 1919 1923 28
-32 80 62
Zack Greinke    22.9  126  945.1 140    14.0 2007 2011 23
-27 62 45
Orel Hershiser  22.8  124 1045.0 141    13.8 1986 1990 27
-31 69 54
CC Sabathia     22.5  128 1071.1 158    12.4 2004 2008 23
-27 74 48
Alex Fernandez  22.5  125 1100.0 155    12.4 1993 1997 23
-27 74 46
Adam Wainwright 22.4  131 1035.2 153    14.2 2008 2013 26
-31 83 44
Jeff Pfeffer    22.3  128 1162.1 131    13.6 1915 1919 27
-31 73 53
Mort Cooper     22.2  140 1093.1 139    13.3 1941 1945 28
-32 87 35
John Tudor      21.9  125 1143.2 162    11.8 1982 1986 28
-32 72 48 

Not one of these is in the hall of fame.
   23. OCF Posted: August 17, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5515757)
The last time I went to several of my college's games (the Long Beach State Dirtbags), the team featured Jered Weaver and Troy Tulowitzki. So Weaver is now retiring. Tulowitzki is out for the season with an injury, and seems to be on the downslope of his career. And yet, somehow, Jason Vargas appeared in the All Star game this year. (Vargas was a P/DH for that team and arguably its best hitter but only the #3 pitcher.)
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 17, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5515758)
(the Long Beach State Dirtbags)

Wow, this is really their name.
   25. OCF Posted: August 17, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5515759)
One of the structures at their field (Blair Field) has Weaver's name displayed prominently - I think he has donated some serious money to the program.
   26. OCF Posted: August 17, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5515768)
Not one of these is in the hall of fame.

No, but if you could, as a mythical GM, claim a rotation worth of these guys for their prime years, you'd have an awfully good pitching staff. A couple of them (notably Luque and Hershiser) have at least attracted sniffs of interest in HOM discussions. And quite a few of them, maybe most of them, were pretty well-known in their day. (But one common thread is that they mostly didn't sustain that excellence for that many years outside of the ones listed in this table.)
   27. Walt Davis Posted: August 17, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5515900)
You can add at least Hudson and CC to the HoVG pile, CC's still not out of it. Oh yeah, Greinke, who's got a pretty darn good shot at it.

But like a lot of pitcher lists, the main story is one of injury and whatever else causes pitchers to derail. Baseball experts believed enough in CC, Cain, Price, Greinke to make them very highly paid (I think 3 were highest paid at the time they signed). McDowell, Fernandez and Wainwright (at least) were big talents. It is odd that none of those guys (until probably Greinke) did enough outside of this to make it.

I'm curious which criteria you used. HoF pitchers in that war range for seasons 4-8: Ted Lyons, Gaylord Perry, Phil Niekro, (Gossage), Hoyt, (Eck), Bunning. OK, technically those last guys miss the bottom of this list by 0.2 WAR. Ryan, Glavine, Sutton, Ford, Smoltz are among the 27 HoF pitchers with less WAR then Weaver between 4th and 8th seasons. You can add Schilling (12) and Mussina is only at 25.6, Unit at 26.2, Maddux at 27.5.

Doesn't seem to look much different by ERA+. Maddux 136, Unit 133, Gibson 130 (26.4 WAR), Niekro 126, Perry 120, Bunning 120, Glavine 120, Lyons 119, Sutton 118, Ryan 116, Smoltz 115.

Even adding an IP criterion on top of it (odd since WAR already covers PT) doesn't clear things up: Glavine 1090, Unit 1053, Smoltz 1047, Ford 1032.

And it sure isn't WAA. By WAA Weaver had nearly as much as Spahn and Palmer, more than Gibson and Drysdale and more than all those guys mentioned above except Unit and Maddux.

Even by wins, he's 1 behind Perry and Ryan, tied with Bunning, Ford, Unit, ahead of Niekro, Smoltz.

So, for those 5 years, Weaver pitched as well as a lot of HoF pitchers no matter how I slice it. At a minimum, even using all of those criteria, he's ahead/equal of Niekro, Ford, Bunning and Smoltz; ahead of Glavine in everything but wins.
   28. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: August 18, 2017 at 07:22 AM (#5515973)
[15] I recal bb-ref having an attractiveness ELO rater but I think it might have just been an April Fools Day joke.
   29. DanG Posted: August 18, 2017 at 09:24 AM (#5516008)
To address Walt's concerns:

Yes, the fact that no hall of famers made the list in #22 is a fluke, but also due to the fact that half of the list is very recent guys. As Walt shows, you don't have to go far afield to find hall of famers similar to Weaver in career years 4-8.

This relates to why I think the statement in the OP is an exaggeration ("He had a great career"), over-stretching the definition of "great". Weaver's career was short (only Dean has fewer IP among HOF SP) and his peak was all-too common. I had to draw the criteria fairly tightly to keep the list down to a manageable size (within 1.7 WAR and 200 IP, ERA+ of 123+).

I'm not looking to denigrate a fine career, but I don't think he's among the top 100 pitcher candidates for the Hall.
   30. Matt Welch Posted: August 18, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5516294)
Echoing the other Angels fans here -- what a great competitor to have on your side. Definitely a top-10 beloved Angel among the fanbase; maybe only Ryan was more of a favorite (Tanana was overshadowed by the Express, Finley is associated with the wilderness years, and I wasn't around for Chance). I remember there was negative chatter when he first came up about how he'd never be a #1, but he truly was there for a solid half-decade there.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: August 18, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5516539)
I forgot the most important Jared Weaver comp of them all -- Felix Hernandez! 25.5 WAR from years 4-8, mostly extra PT (0.5 diff in WAA).

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