it really depends on if his current defenisve and offesnive resurgence holds up (or rather. it's more like a late defensive breakout since his 08/09 UZR is better than any other years in his career by a pretty large margin) until 2010 and what other people put on the table.

If I were Jeter's agent, I would take advantage of his good play to implement a sense of panic among the fanbase about his impending departure.

I'm willing to bet a mortgage payment that Jeter will never wear another uniform. This is just an opener to the negotiation (the results of which will be very interesting).

- He is the most popular player ever.

Really? Seriously?

He is the most popular player ever.

Really? Seriously?

Obviously he's never been as "popular" across baseball as some of the iconic players from other teams (Musial, Ripken, etc.), but in the post-WW II era it'd be hard to think of one who played for as long with the Yankees as Jeter has, and was as consistently popular among the Yankee fan base. Maybe Mattingly, and Bernie's not too far behind, but that's about it. Rivera's respected, but not really "loved" in the same way (/ducks, but you know what I mean); Munson and Guidry didn't play that long; Mantle was mercilessly booed for much of his early career; Jackson was only cheered when he produced; and "true Yankees" such as Piniella and O'Neill were imports who played in pinstripes for less than a decade. So if you limit it to Yankees for the past 60 years, it's probably true.

I'll be interested to see what Varitek is remembered like in fifty years.

I'll be interested to see what Varitek is remembered like in fifty years.

Depends to a great extent on how many 2004 reunions he lives to attend, but as long as videos of that dustup with ARod are around, he'll never be completely forgotten.

Really? Seriously?

I think that was intentional hyperbole.

I think that was intentional hyperbole.

Sure, but all the same, can you think of any Yankee that the fan base has ever "loved" throughout his entire career to Jeter's extent?

Sure, but all the same, can you think of any Yankee that the fan base has ever "loved" throughout his entire career to Jeter's extent?

Mattingly was more popular than Jeter is, IMO.

Mattingly was more popular than Jeter is, IMO.

But every single one of Mattingly's seasons as a Yankee ended in disappointment (no World Series).
I can't imagine consistently losing would make someone more popular than someone else who brings you a title so often (so early).

Unless, of course, you're a Cubs fan (or pre-2004 Red Sox fan) and that's your mindset from the beginning.

Why can't the Yankees wait the rest of this season and the next before deciding. It seems likely he will show a steady decline as he passes age 36. After the 2010 season ends, he may not be able to be an everyday shortstop(maybe sooner?) and his value and cost will decrease. Jumping to sign him now to a four year contract seems foolish, even for the Yankees. How many other teams in baseball would offer him $21 mil to play SS? None.

During his pre-FA years, they let him play out until the last possible minute, to see if he'd bust. Big Stein probably ended up paying millions more than if they had locked him up, but I'd expect the same thing from the Yankees this time around.

Well How come they will not sign him When he will be so near to 3000 hits also first one to do that in uniform

During his pre-FA years, they let him play out until the last possible minute, to see if he'd bust. Big Stein probably ended up paying millions more than if they had locked him up, but I'd expect the same thing from the Yankees this time around.

That was Bernie, not Jeter.

Are you sure, Larry? I remember a big deal being made of the way Jeter and Nomar were treated as possible FAs. Nomar signed earlier, and was consistently pissed that he was outperforming the contract. Jeter signed later, and couldn't possibly outperform the money paid to him.

Well How come they will not sign him When he will be so near to 3000 hits also first one to do that in uniform

This is why they will sign him no matter what. Right now it looks like he'll still be a valuable player but even if he's not, he gets signed to be the first career Yankee to get 3,000 hits.

Sure, but all the same, can you think of any Yankee that the fan base has ever "loved" throughout his entire career to Jeter's extent?

I would've thought Yogi was the obvious answer, but I'm just a dirty Boston fan.

*strikes Mattbert with a blackjack*

"Where'd you get that?"

"sent away."

Are you sure, Larry? I remember a big deal being made of the way Jeter and Nomar were treated as possible FAs. Nomar signed earlier, and was consistently pissed that he was outperforming the contract. Jeter signed later, and couldn't possibly outperform the money paid to him.

If I remember...back in his last year of Arbitration...they had a $110-$120 M deal on the table...but it would have made him the highest paid player in the game at the time....and the story was that steinbrenner simply didn't want the bad press....so they tried to hold out til someone else (Juan Gonzalez?) completed a larger deal that was supposed to be coming down the pipe in the $140 M range...that deal never materialized and Jeter played out the season on a 1 year ~$10 M deal...then Arod and manny signed their deals and stein got his wish of not having the highest paid player in the game on his team...all for the low price of $80 M dollars more than they could have paid a couple of years earlier.

There's about a 0% chance that Jeter's next contract will be "worth it" in terms of on the field value. He's so overpaid now, that even a decrease won't be enough to make it match up.

Of course, the "off the field" value is harder to measure.

But every single one of Mattingly's seasons as a Yankee ended in disappointment (no World Series).
I can't imagine consistently losing would make someone more popular than someone else who brings you a title so often (so early).

Unless, of course, you're a Cubs fan (or pre-2004 Red Sox fan) and that's your mindset from the beginning.

So are you saying Johnny Evers should be more popular with current Cubs fans than Ryne Sandberg?

whole Jeter career has been being at right place at right time up-to this point his career has been picture perfect like some fairytale so it will be interesting to see how his new contact will go!! He is the most loved player on the team , also in someway the face of baseball .I think it will be best for the Yankees and for baseball to finish his career with Yankees.I think the great beginning should also have the great ending :)

Well, the "ending" hasn't made some fans happy since 2000.

Just the other day I almost drove off the road when I heard a fan call WFAN's Mike Francesa and say (I'm paraphrasing): "How come Derek Jeter always gets a free pass? Every time the guy comes up in a big spot now, he hits into a double play. The late 1990s is a long time ago, you know."

Jeter hasn't yet been loved "throughout his entire career" because he hasn't played his entire career yet.

Recall Jeff Van Gundy's words: "In New York, it always ends badly."

He'll wind up playing short for the Giants in 2017.

Why he will play upto 2017 to chase Pete Rose record ?

Which one?

:)

hehe lol ..........

Most hit record !:)

I remember a big deal being made of the way Jeter and Nomar were treated as possible FAs. Nomar signed earlier, and was consistently pissed that he was outperforming the contract. Jeter signed later, and couldn't possibly outperform the money paid to him.

Jeter's current contract is higher than it might otherwise be because the Yankees let him go to arbitration twice rather than locking him up. He won $5M in 1999, a record at the time, IIRC, and then signed a 1-year midpoint $10M deal coming of his MVP-caliber 1999 season after arbitration figures were exchanged. This was in place of a tentative 7-year $118.5M deal. After that, A-Rod signed his monster deal with Texas, giving Jeter added leverage.

Jeter's 2010 salary isn't really the starting point for extension negotiations, since his 10-year $189M deal was rather backloaded. My guess is there's a deal made in the neighborhood of 2years, $30M, with some haggling over option years and buyouts. It's in both the Yanks' & Jeter's interest that he re-sign. The Yanks don't have anyone better in their system, and Jeter will continue to make millions in non-baseball income in the NY market.

Jeter's still a wonderful player. But I can't see anybody else paying more than 10-12 million for him on a 3 year deal. Can the Yankees offer something like that (or even up to the 13-15m range) and keep him? Or will he take it as an insult if he's asked to take any kind of pay cut?

Can the Yankees offer something like that (or even up to the 13-15m range) and keep him? Or will he take it as an insult if he's asked to take any kind of pay cut?

I don't think Jeter is stupid. He has to know he's not a 20 million dollar a year player.

Well, it depends how well he keeps up.
If he keeps hitting like this, Jeter might have some leverage in that he'll have fans who think he'll do that for 3-5 more years and would be ticked at the Yankees for any perceived 'lowballing.'

But if he fades as one might expect, then the leverage seemingly would go to the Yankees - wouldn't look good for Jeter's image to be seen as a guy who signed with Texas or Houston or the Dodgers just to make a few extra bucks on top of the $200 mill or so he's already raked in.

I dunno, Howie. He can try to play it as "an insulting offer" and go elsewhere intent on kicking the Yankees' heads in as many times a year as possible. Who will be Boston's SS in 2011?

He can try to play it as "an insulting offer" and go elsewhere intent on kicking the Yankees' heads in as many times a year as possible.

When Jeter was drafted the only reason he fell to the Yankees was because he made it clear he didn't want to play for anyone else and he would go to Michigan if someone else drafted him. Jeter has always wanted to be a Yankee and he's very aware of his legacy as a Yankee. I doubt that he would do something like this.

He is the most popular player ever.

Really? Seriously?

Most popular Yankee ever, I'll defer to Yankee fans, but my sense is that it's somewhat close but not quite. Ever period, which is what was said? Hell no. It's not even in the realm of close.

This is why they will sign him no matter what. Right now it looks like he'll still be a valuable player but even if he's not, he gets signed to be the first career Yankee to get 3,000 hits.

I don't see where the marginal benefit in attendance comes for the Yankees from this, which is the reasoning behind other teams doing it. I also don't much see where the benefit comes otherwise, and I'm not in the habit of calling the Steinbrenners altruistic sentimentalists.

I think he'll be re-signed, but I don't think he'd be re-signed solely because of this, though we'll almost assuredly never know.

I think the way to break this down is on-the-field vs. off-the-field stuff.

The off-the-field could include Jeter jersey sales, "loyalty", not wanting the PR hit of letting a "star" walk away, want for Jeter to continue to be the face of the franchise, and other stuff.

and Jeff, I think Babe Ruth is indisputably the most popular Yankee ever, which is why St. Nick said "of the last sixty years" upstairs.

It sounds counterintuitive, but what hurts Jeter's odds of staying a Yankee are that he plays for a winning, wealthy team.

Because the Yanks are contenders, they're unlikely to commit big dollars on sentiment when they know they're better served to spend them elsewhere.

Because the Yanks are rich, Jeter is unlikely to take a Gwynn-like hometown discount to insure he stays in pinstripes. I mean, would you take a 75% or so paycut to play for the richest team in the world, playing right next to a $275 million man, right across from a $180 million man, and with another half billion in contracts around the diamond? It would kill any man's pride.

Sammy, they brought Bernie back. THEY BROUGHT BERNIE BACK!

Mantle was mercilessly booed for much of his early career;
Damn Philly fans. :) Why is it we hear about Schmidt getting booed by not Mantle?

Sure, but all the same, can you think of any Yankee that the fan base has ever "loved" throughout his entire career to Jeter's extent?
Doo-da-doo-doo doo-da-doo-doo...

I fully expect Jeters 3000th, and 3500th hit to be in a Yankee uniform, his 4000th may be in a Reds or Nationals uniform.

It sounds counterintuitive, but what hurts Jeter's odds of staying a Yankee are that he plays for a winning, wealthy team.

doesn't sound counterintuitive at all, it makes perfect sense, but nostalgia does have some value, and of course the fact that Jeter is actually still a good player means that there is a chance that they are willing to take the leap to get that last good year out of Jeter.

Jeter is nowhere close to Mattingly in terms of popularity with the die hard fans. Jeter is the favorite of a lot of casual and/or female fans. But the core fanbase adored Mattingly. Especially in his injured decline phase, the fans lapped up the pathos of the "wounded hero".

I have never heard anything like the way the Stadium reacted when Mattingly hit his game 2 home run against Seattle in 1995. The game was stopped for like 5 minutes with the debris thrown on the field.

I was at Game 6 in the 1996 World Series. The Mattingly home run response was way louder than when they won the World Series.

The gap is even larger to the popularity of a Mantle or a Berra. Mantle was the idol for American boys growing up in the 1950s. I don't think any athlete has approached that since. Maybe Michael Jordan, maybe.

I think the way to break this down is on-the-field vs. off-the-field stuff.

The off-the-field could include Jeter jersey sales, "loyalty", not wanting the PR hit of letting a "star" walk away, want for Jeter to continue to be the face of the franchise, and other stuff.

Who is buying a Jeter jersey only if and when he passes 3,000 hits? Not enough people to be a factor here, I can't remotely fathom. The PR hit/face of franchise is of course valid, and will weigh heavily and tip if he's still got some value but wants more than he's worth. The part of what CP said that I quoted and was responding to in particular, though, was the "even if he's not" valuable. If he doesn't have some value, and I'm not being nitpicky here, I mean some real value, and he wants what I imagine he will ask for, I can't see the Yankees signing him. Again, it's all almost certainly moot.

Who is buying a Jeter jersey only if and when he passes 3,000 hits?

I thought we were talking about signing him past 2010. In that case, every game he plays in will result in new Jeter jerseys sold, not just the one in which he breaks the record.

Who is buying a Jeter jersey only if and when he passes 3,000 hits?

Kids become aware of the game and/or outgrow their clothes just about every year. And stuff wears out, too. There's also a market for speciality merchandise celebrating some aspect of a player's career. By the end of this season, Jeter may have the most hits of any Yankee ever, as well as the most hits while playing shortstop in MLB history. I would think there are people employed to make such events a commercial success. Same for 3,000 hits.

Kids become aware of the game and/or outgrow their clothes just about every year. And stuff wears out, too. There's also a market for speciality merchandise celebrating some aspect of a player's career. By the end of this season, Jeter may have the most hits of any Yankee ever, as well as the most hits while playing shortstop in MLB history. I would think there are people employed to make such events a commercial success. Same for 3,000 hits.

the thing is that the teams don't make any more money off of a Yankee Jersey sold with the name Jeter on it over a Cardinal jersey sold with Pujols on it, the money is equally distributed outside of actual stadium concession profits.

the thing is that the teams don't make any more money off of a Yankee Jersey sold with the name Jeter on it over a Cardinal jersey sold with Pujols on it, the money is equally distributed outside of actual stadium concession profits.

It's probably not much more than a rounding error in the overall budget, but my guess is that they sell a lot of Jeter jerseys, T-shirts, autographed balls & bats at the Stadium. In any event, I think the Yankees' calculation will be that not signing Jeter is more of a revenue risk than retaining him at almost any reaonable (for the Yankees) cost, with the effect on TV ratings playing more of a factor than merchandise sales. They'd also likely be a weaker team in at least 2011 if they were to let him go.

They'd also likely be a weaker team in at least 2011 if they were to let him go.


Really?

Jeter's not going to hit enough to play LF, or DH, and I doubt a 38 year old Jeter can play SS, 3rd, 2nd or CF well enough to justify keeping him.

In that case, every game he plays in will result in new Jeter jerseys sold, not just the one in which he breaks the record.

But, as I said in the beginning, we're talking marginal revenue here. And for the Yankees it doesn't matter if you buy Giambi, Jeter, or Maas. So the only relevant revenue stream in this part of the equation is how many people would only buy a Jeter jersey in either scenario, the original comment I responded to (signing him even if he has little value so that he gets 3,000 in Yankee garb) or when just discussing 2011+ on its own merits? If they'd have bought a different guy's jersey, or if they'd have bought a Jeter one anyway (if they do sign him), it's not a marginal benefit of the contract.

Kids become aware of the game and/or outgrow their clothes just about every year. And stuff wears out, too.

Again, only relevant if in the absence of Kid Clutch, the replacement clothes would be of some other variety that the Yankees don't get the same money from.

There's also a market for speciality merchandise celebrating some aspect of a player's career.

There certainly is, and it's definitely germane. However, I can't say that I believe it'd be anywhere close, especially when it comes down to what the Yankees get from each thing sold, to offsetting some major portion of the contract. Nolan was damned popular when he was finishing up in Arlington, and his achievements where they offered this kind of stuff were actual records and not just "first Yankee to" or "career milestone" things. Even still, 5k Ks, 7th no-hitter, I didn't see but a few people with swag from that. Hell, I saw way more shirts with the cover of the paper after the Ventura fight than I did the all of the milestones combined. Which probably had a little to do with being in junior high at the time, but still.

I think they'll find a way to co-exist, because it helps out both parties.

I think they'll find a way to co-exist, because it helps out both parties.

Good god, when has that ever worked in any relationship?

Jeter's not going to hit enough to play LF, or DH, and I doubt a 38 year old Jeter can play SS, 3rd, 2nd or CF well enough to justify keeping him.

There are only 4 DH's this year that are OPSing higher than .800, 7 last year. There are a few good DHs each year, but mostly they aren't that impressive.

The other question is will DH be available for the Yankees in 2011?

The part of what CP said that I quoted and was responding to in particular, though, was the "even if he's not" valuable.

The Yankees are an arrogant organization that is very aware of it's history. You can't watch YES for five minutes without getting some moment or member of Yankee history shoved in your face. That's why I think the Yanks will sign Jeter for his 3,000th hit, they're probably licking their chops at the prospect of adding a Yankee developed 3,000 hit man to the Yankee history book.

Jeter's not going to hit enough to play LF, or DH, and I doubt a 38 year old Jeter can play SS, 3rd, 2nd or CF well enough to justify keeping him.

Jeter will certainly hit lefties well enough to be part of a platoon at 38. And he'll be a much better athlete at 38 than most of the left fielders in the league anyway. I'd be pretty surprised if he was a plus defender out there, even pushing 40 and if he gets some time off against tougher righties and for his old body to recover, he could probably be an above average LFer that late in his career.

member of Yankee history shoved in your face

I'll thank you to leave Tony Lazzeri's penis out of this.

Even current OPS+ on bb-ref, I learned here the other day, hasn't adjusted for the band box that is 2009 Yankee Stadium. So any Yankee's stats this year are a bit inflated by lack of full adjustment in OPS+ for the new park.

So how dazzling has Jeter been even this year, really?

Even current OPS+ on bb-ref, I learned here the other day, hasn't adjusted for the band box that is 2009 Yankee Stadium. So any Yankee's stats this year are a bit inflated by lack of full adjustment in OPS+ for the new park.

So how dazzling has Jeter been even this year, really?

Jeter OPS 2009

Home: .897
Away: .769

yeah, stadium's help his power espically, the OBP / average is the same.

Looking at the team splits, Yankees hitters have a .842 OPS at home and .809 on the road, which puts their tOPS+ at home at 103.

The pitchers have shown a larger split, but oddly the BABIP at home has been much higher. While it looks like it will be very friendly to HRs, I don't think it's going to be too friendly to 1B, 2B, or 3B.

Anyway BR has the one year PF at 103 right now anyway, and if that's the case Jeter's still having a great year.