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Friday, July 18, 2014

Jim Bouton Still As Opinionated As Ever

“Ball Four: The Final Pitch,” which will soon be released in trade paperback, he says. Told that the book has already been updated numerous times, Bouton laughs.

“I promise this will be the last time,” he says.

As commissioner, Bouton also would cut down the times of games.

“I would eliminate Velcro — that would eliminate 45 minutes right there,” he says.

He’d also make batters stay in the box.

“Get into the batter’s box for Chrissakes and stay there,” he says. “If you want to step out, fine, but the pitcher can pitch the ball. If the batter chooses not to step in, that’s his problem.”

He’d curtail ballpark noise.

“They’re pounding you with advertising from the moment you walk in the stadium,” he says. “You can’t even think anymore. When I went to ballparks like the Polo Grounds, it was like a holy place. Quiet. You could hear the crack of the bat at batting practice.”

Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 18, 2014 at 02:46 PM | 149 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: ball four, not thurman, pilots, yankees

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   1. Scott Ross Posted: July 18, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4753914)
Yes, yes and yes.
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 18, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4753920)
He’d curtail ballpark noise.


Yes.
   3. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 18, 2014 at 05:53 PM (#4753922)
.
   4. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 18, 2014 at 06:07 PM (#4753931)
Bouton for Commissioner.
   5. TR_Sullivan Posted: July 18, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4753961)
Forget all the literary stuff....Bouton was among many pitchers who had their careers cut short because of arm injury but nobody pays attention because Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver and Ferguson Jenkins were real pros...
   6. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 18, 2014 at 07:18 PM (#4753966)
The other day Mike Francesa was arguing that players of yesteryear "like Nolan Ryan" (lol) were able to pitch and pitch and pitch 250 and 300 innings year after year and their arms never fell off. He went through some names and listed their innings totals, totally oblivious to the fact -- even after a caller pointed it out -- that his argument was flawed because he never considered the denominator, i.e., how many pitchers did in fact fall by the wayside.

I absolutely love the three main names he cited.

Nolan Ryan. I mean, yeah, citing the extreme data point doesn't really do anything for anything.

Bob Feller. Francesa was clueless that Feller fell off after age 32 (and Feller fell of despite not even pitching from ages 23-25).

Sandy Koufax. Yes, that's right: Against all odds, in attempting to cite a pitcher who could throw 300 innings year after year without breaking, Francesa named... Sandy Koufax, the pitcher whose arm fell off from overuse at age 30. The caller following his presentation was like, "Dude... you're citing Sandy Koufax?"
   7. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 18, 2014 at 08:27 PM (#4754008)
I assume Bouton is a poster here?
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 08:50 PM (#4754036)
“I would eliminate Velcro — that would eliminate 45 minutes right there,” he says.


Hilarious. I lol. I used to be able to ignore the batting glove thing, but it's just gotten so over the top, that you cannot help but notice it.

“Get into the batter’s box for Chrissakes and stay there,” he says. “If you want to step out, fine, but the pitcher can pitch the ball. If the batter chooses not to step in, that’s his problem.”


Agree, there should be no "time out" while in the batters box, and in fact there should be no time out without asking permission, and only for things like dust in your eyes, an itch on your leg or something other than a routine.

He’d curtail ballpark noise.


Well two out of three ideas being good is no problem. This is neither good or bad, it's just old manitis rearing it's head.
   9. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 08:52 PM (#4754038)
The other day Mike Francesa was arguing that players of yesteryear "like Nolan Ryan" (lol) were able to pitch and pitch and pitch 250 and 300 innings year after year and their arms never fell off. He went through some names and listed their innings totals, totally oblivious to the fact -- even after a caller pointed it out -- that his argument was flawed because he never considered the denominator, i.e., how many pitchers did in fact fall by the wayside.


The problem I have with talk radio, is that it's like political pundits, they feel they can say anything and nobody is going to check them up on it, because the only people who check this stuff is fringe people like stat bloggers or comedians(in case of politics) that are already talking to their converts.

   10. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:31 PM (#4754061)
I used to be able to ignore the batting glove thing, but it's just gotten so over the top, that you cannot help but notice it.

And unless I'm mistaken, the first star player who began adjusting the velcro after every ####### pitch was------Derek Jeter.

-----------------------------------------------

The problem I have with talk radio, is that it's like political pundits, they feel they can say anything and nobody is going to check them up on it, because the only people who check this stuff is fringe people like stat bloggers or comedians(in case of politics) that are already talking to their converts.

It's also because they know that they themselves are preaching to the dittohead choir, which can be counted on to shout down anyone who contradicts the host's POV. And of course the guy who screens the calls will make absolutely sure of that.
   11. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:42 PM (#4754064)
And unless I'm mistaken, the first star player who began adjusting the velcro after every ####### pitch was------Derek Jeter.


I thought it was Nomar that had that reputation more. Skip Schumaker was the guy I noticed(as a Cardinal fan)
   12. BDC Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4754067)
Noise = bad. Y'all will be old some day and hate it too.

Ray, very minor point, but Bob Feller pitched quite a bit for Navy teams during the War. He did combat service but not three years thereof.
   13. AuntBea Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:55 PM (#4754070)
This reminds me of a great exchange that Zumsteg had with Jeff Huson:
DZ: Does the hearing the "Addams Family" theme played poorly a couple times a game, all season long, ever bug you?
Jeff Huson: Yes it does, because the "Addams Family" show is a favorite of mine.
   14. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:05 PM (#4754076)
Jeff Huson:


Put this on the list of names I would not have expected to read tonight.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:12 PM (#4754082)
Noise = bad. Y'all will be old some day and hate it too


I am old, and it does bother me sometimes, but so what, it's not an issue that anyone should care about unless they want to pull out their old man card. Complaining about noise in a public stadium should immediately make you look in the mirror and see Abe Simpson staring back at you.
   16. BDC Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:21 PM (#4754087)
I'm too busy adjusting the onion in my belt.
   17. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:31 PM (#4754091)
Complaining about noise in a public stadium should immediately make you look in the mirror and see Abe Simpson staring back at you.

Sorry, I was still in my 20s when I went to my first Angels game and wanted to ban the noise. Dodgers had not left the 60s at that point (it was the mid-80s and Nancy Hefley was still at the organ). Oakland played fun music. Anaheim seemed scripeted by Leni Riefenstahl.
   18. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:34 PM (#4754092)
. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:31 PM (#4754061)
I used to be able to ignore the batting glove thing, but it's just gotten so over the top, that you cannot help but notice it.

And unless I'm mistaken, the first star player who began adjusting the velcro after every ####### pitch was------Derek Jeter.


cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 09:42 PM (#4754064)
And unless I'm mistaken, the first star player who began adjusting the velcro after every ####### pitch was------Derek Jeter.


I thought it was Nomar that had that reputation more. Skip Schumaker was the guy I noticed(as a Cardinal fan)

my God, Andy and cardsfanboy--you mean you don't remember "The Human Rain Delay" Mike Hargrove??? He was the posterboy for velcro rearrangement.

EDIT--Andy is certainly old enuff to remember, CFB may be off the hook
   19. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 10:43 PM (#4754098)

my God, Andy and cardsfanboy--you mean you don't remember "The Human Rain Delay" Mike Hargrove??? He was the posterboy for velcro rearrangement.

EDIT--Andy is certainly old enuff to remember, CFB may be off the hook


I remember the nickname(I'm fairly certain I have his baseball card) but I didn't think it was velcro related.
   20. Bhaakon Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4754110)
Noise = bad. Y'all will be old some day and hate it too.


Speaking as a young person, I'd like to see them curtail the noise before I end up with old-person hearing. But baseball is far, far, far from the worst offender. Yea gods, I think I need a hearing aid after basketball games. It's ridiculous. Bad enough that I'll purposely show up late to miss the over the top player introductions.
   21. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:20 PM (#4754114)
And unless I'm mistaken, the first star player who began adjusting the velcro after every ####### pitch was------Derek Jeter.

I thought it was Nomar that had that reputation more. Skip Schumaker was the guy I noticed(as a Cardinal fan)


Could be, but Jeter came up a year before Nomar and I can't remember a time when he wasn't doing the velcro pull.

-------------------------------------------------

my God, Andy and cardsfanboy--you mean you don't remember "The Human Rain Delay" Mike Hargrove??? He was the posterboy for velcro rearrangement.

EDIT--Andy is certainly old enuff to remember, CFB may be off the hook


I certainly remember Hargrove (and his nickname) and hated him as I've never hated any player before or since, because of his pioneering stalling tactics. I just don't remember that it was the velcro move that he was using. I'd remembered more that he'd step out of the box after each pitch and take several practice swings. But I certainly could be wrong, especially since I only saw the Rangers or Indians a couple of times a year in the pre-cable era.

-------------------------------------------------

Complaining about noise in a public stadium should immediately make you look in the mirror and see Abe Simpson staring back at you.

Good noise is generated by the crowd, in a spontaneous reaction to play on the field. Pitiful noise is generated by loudspeakers and jumbotrons. Screw that. Real fans don't need it.
   22. Steve Treder Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:25 PM (#4754116)
Good noise is generated by the crowd, in a spontaneous reaction to play on the field. Pitiful noise is generated by loudspeakers and jumbotrons. Screw that. Real fans don't need it.

Yes, and (while admittedly an old fart) I honestly don't think this is an observation that is necessarily old-fartish.

   23. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:28 PM (#4754119)
Good noise is generated by the crowd, in a spontaneous reaction to play on the field. Pitiful noise is generated by loudspeakers and jumbotrons. Screw that. Real fans don't need it.


I grew up in an era where I like background noise, I have my radio on even while not paying attention, etc... but yes I think the stadium volume is a little too loud, but the same can be said at a lot of restaurants(I couldn't believe how loud it was at an applebees, and yes I know they do it on purpose, since studies show that people eat and drink more effectively spending more money with the loud noise that prevents conversation) etc.

I still think complaining about it, makes you an old fogey. (regardless of your chronological age)
   24. Rob_Wood Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4754123)
Today's NBA stadiums have the loudest noise I have ever encountered (and I went to baseball games at the Metrodome that almost made my ears bleed).
   25. greenback calls it soccer Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4754125)
Today's NBA stadiums have the loudest noise I have ever encountered (and I went to baseball games at the Metrodome that almost made my ears bleed).

Mark Cuban had a blog entry a while back about this topic. Everybody hates the noise, so the Mavs turned it off for a couple of games. Nobody noticed.
   26. cardsfanboy Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:43 PM (#4754127)
Mark Cuban had a blog entry a while back about this topic. Everybody hates the noise, so the Mavs turned it off for a couple of games. Nobody noticed.


What is that supposed to mean? Nobody noticed the noise was off, or nobody complained because there wasn't background noise?

The argument is that background noise is too over the top, (I agree with that, contrary to what I'm saying on this thread) people are going to notice annoyances long before they notice the lack of the annoyances.
   27. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 18, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4754128)
Good noise is generated by the crowd, in a spontaneous reaction to play on the field. Pitiful noise is generated by loudspeakers and jumbotrons. Screw that. Real fans don't need it.

I grew up in an era where I like background noise, I have my radio on even while not paying attention, etc... but yes I think the stadium volume is a little too loud, but the same can be said at a lot of restaurants(I couldn't believe how loud it was at an applebees, and yes I know they do it on purpose, since studies show that people eat and drink more effectively spending more money with the loud noise that prevents conversation) etc.

I still think complaining about it, makes you an old fogey. (regardless of your chronological age)


Sorry, I don't think complaining about willful stupidity is a sign of anything but sanity, especially when the willful stupidity is motivated purely by the twits in the marketing department. Real old fogeys like to pretend that baseball's Golden Age was back when they were thirteen, when** some teams consisted in part of about 20 players who couldn't dream of making the Bigs today.

**If you go back to the AL of the 50's, at least

And yes, you can say the same thing about many restaurants, which is another triumph of the ####### focus groups.
   28. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 19, 2014 at 12:05 AM (#4754142)
I certainly remember Hargrove (and his nickname) and hated him as I've never hated any player before or since, because of his pioneering stalling tactics. I just don't remember that it was the velcro move that he was using. I'd remembered more that he'd step out of the box after each pitch and take several practice swings. But I certainly could be wrong, especially since I only saw the Rangers or Indians a couple of times a year in the pre-cable era.


I don't know if there was velcro on his batting gloves, but it was not just practice swings between pitches for Hargrove. It was a complete routine of tics and adjustments.

See Here.
   29. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: July 19, 2014 at 01:02 AM (#4754165)
I guess only "old pharts" want to talk baseball with their seat-mates or take a cell phone call during a game, then? I guess you could use SMS or a group text messaging app to communicate with people 3 feet away from you at the game. I can't wait for the Internet of Things to produce a chip implanted in our heads that allows us to communicate like the Binars without needing mouths and ears; good times.

Baseball is inherently a pastoral game, unlike NBA, hockey, and whatever else you can dredge up. This accounts for the resistance to technology such as replay, lights at Wrigley, and others that were commonplace in other sports.

I don't know how you square those pastoral roots with the modern marketing approach that demands hammering each of your senses constantly and mercilessly with one sales message or another. My guess is that a guy with Bouton's stated views has a zero (or less) chance of getting anywhere near the Commissioner's chair.
   30. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 01:15 AM (#4754168)
I guess only "old pharts" want to talk baseball with their seat-mates or take a cell phone call during a game, then?


No, only old pharts think their desires is all that matters.

You get people like SBB who think there actually is a thing called "mallparks" where people go to baseball games to eat dinner etc. The simple fact is they wouldn't be piping in the music if they didn't have some type of data saying people like it in one way or another.

There are a lot of people who like the constant background noise, it makes an entertainment venue feel "alive".
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 01:28 AM (#4754170)
Baseball is inherently a pastoral game, unlike NBA, hockey, and whatever else you can dredge up. This accounts for the resistance to technology such as replay, lights at Wrigley, and others that were commonplace in other sports.

I don't know how you square those pastoral roots with the modern marketing approach that demands hammering each of your senses constantly and mercilessly with one sales message or another. My guess is that a guy with Bouton's stated views has a zero (or less) chance of getting anywhere near the Commissioner's chair.


You just ignore the old farts. The resistance to instant replay isn't because of people afraid of technology, it's because it's a cerebral game and people watching it have seen the utter failure that is the NFL replay system and don't want something as moronic and intrusive as that system to interrupt the pacing of the game. Add in that (not me) many people knew that the people in charge of MLB wouldn't avoid those pitfalls, and instead jump into them headfirst to repeat the same mistakes, and the same learning curves.

Thinking that this game is being held hostage by the old fart regime is one of the mistakes a lot of people make. Look at the DH, there is an entire generation of old farts who were raised with the DH, yet there are still people arguing for the old farting system of No DH Ever.... A person in their 20's when the DH started is now in their 60's....yet people still think that there is significant resistance against the DH from the old guard. There isn't...the resistance is from the league you are a fan of and has nearly nothing to do with old fogeyism.

For the record, I think that if the old farts would put their objections in more acceptable terms, then it wouldn't be a problem. The argument about background music is really about how loud it is, and not about the existence of it. The old fart regime has to accept that background music is going to happen no matter what they and their dinosaurs think, so instead of arguing against background noise, they need to argue about the volume of the background noise, which is what a large portion of people have a problem with, but the argument is diluted because of the split arguments....some want no noise and others just want it turned down.

   32. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:04 AM (#4754178)
Sound reinforcement systems place many speakers all over the venue so that the listeners are never too far from any one sound source. This allows them to saturate the venue with the sound instead of having a humongous powerful speaker blasting sound from one source, a la the centerfield speakers at old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. This also keeps the neighbors happier since the sound is focused where it needs to go rather than spilling into the neighborhood. So it's nigh impossible to duck into a quiet corner if you need to or want to.

No, only old pharts think their desires is all that matters.


Labels don't help us to understand this situation. I've met more than a few 20-somethings who's only interest was their immediate desires and anyone who didn't agree with them could just GTFO; so I guess they are old-farts-in-training then? Well, you gotta start somewhere I guess.
   33. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:15 AM (#4754185)
Again...I think the music is too loud myself...(it's hard to argue in a venue that is just text and get different levels of opinions appropriate) but I think that people having "major" problems with the music are over reacting to the issue, which is what I'm calling the old farts. It's a minor issue that it seems some people focus on(in my opinion)

I like background noise, I do not like obnoxious noise. But even though the "clap, clap, clap your hands" sounds contrived. It works. And a lot of the noise does work at getting the fans into the atmosphere. I really find it hard to believe that 15,000 people crowd in the 60s, was more energetic than a 30,000 people crowd today with the motivating music. the 3,000 or so old fogeys that complain about the noise are getting overridden by the thousands and thousands of others that are participating.
   34. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 07:25 AM (#4754209)
Sorry, I don't think complaining about willful stupidity is a sign of anything but sanity, especially when the willful stupidity is motivated purely by the twits in the marketing department.


Best thing that's been said in this thread. Marketing is the root of most evil.

I loathe the banally repetitive crowd prompts enough that they actively keep me away from professional baseball games, but CFB is right; the reason ballparks keep doing it is that the rank-and-file fans, who are of lower intellect than most of us here, like it.

CFB is wrong about one thing, though: There ARE a LOT of people who go to the ballpark because a baseball game makes a nice atmospheric backdrop for sitting around with friends drinking beer, not because they're particularly interested in the game.
   35. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 07:46 AM (#4754211)
I certainly remember Hargrove (and his nickname) and hated him as I've never hated any player before or since, because of his pioneering stalling tactics. I just don't remember that it was the velcro move that he was using. I'd remembered more that he'd step out of the box after each pitch and take several practice swings. But I certainly could be wrong, especially since I only saw the Rangers or Indians a couple of times a year in the pre-cable era.

I don't know if there was velcro on his batting gloves, but it was not just practice swings between pitches for Hargrove. It was a complete routine of tics and adjustments.

See Here.


You're absolutely right, and it did look like velcro was a part of his routine, even if only a small part. I still can't believe players are allowed to do this ####.

------------------------------------------------------------

There are a lot of people who like the constant background noise, it makes an entertainment venue feel "alive".

And I have no problem is thinking that those people are the baseball equivalent of Valley Girls. Lemmings is a polite word for it.

And can this "old fart" ####. I have no problems with the DH, wild card playoffs, or celebrations after actual home runs. I can live through GBA (which seems to bring out the young farts), and I think the game on the field is a hundredfold improvement over what it was when I was thirteen. (Which for the record was the year the Milwaukee Braves won the World Series.) I just like to be able to hear the person sitting next to me without having to shout.

For the record, I think that if the old farts would put their objections in more acceptable terms, then it wouldn't be a problem. The argument about background music is really about how loud it is, and not about the existence of it. The old fart regime has to accept that background music is going to happen no matter what they and their dinosaurs think, so instead of arguing against background noise, they need to argue about the volume of the background noise, which is what a large portion of people have a problem with, but the argument is diluted because of the split arguments....some want no noise and others just want it turned down.

I could live with it if it were no louder or more intrusive than the Wrigley Field organ, and if they'd strangle those PA announcers who channel that old dude who used to work at the Metrodome and thought he was working the NBA finals. He was even worse than the music.
   36. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 08:03 AM (#4754212)
I will say, as I have a few times already when this topic's come up, that there was very little of the crowd-prompting nonsense at the play-in game in Pittsburgh last October. That was a special circumstance--any idiot knew in advance that crowd would need no aid making noise for three straight hours--but I am very glad they didn't #### that up. I'm not at all sure the crowd could have sustained the "CUETO! CUETO!" chants had there been the usual round of "EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!" interruptions.
   37. shoelesjoe Posted: July 19, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4754224)
I am old, and it does bother me sometimes, but so what


Earlier this season my eight year old son and I attended our first game ever at Comerica Park in Detroit. We've gone to a dozen or so games at Camden Yards, but it was a treat to see one at the Tigers' beautiful ballpark. We (as always) arrived way early to watch batting practice, and see the teams take infield. My son is on a little league team, and whenever we watch a game I do my best to point out to him how the big leaguers work at their craft. We were fifty feet from Miguel Cabrera, Albert Pujols and Mike Trout while they were taking batting practice. We got to watch Trout and Austin Jackson catching fungoes in the outfield. And we got to see Max Scherzer do long toss in left field, and then throw his warm ups to home plate while standing halfway between the mound and second base.

What my son and I couldn't do was talk to each other about any of this because every 8-10 seconds for an hour or more the billion watt stadium speakers let loose with a deafening roar of the Detroit Tiger on the big screen. It was a headache inducing din that added nothing to the experience, and detracted from every other wonderful aspect of the park.

That's what.
   38. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 19, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4754234)
"EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!


CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP.

Sorry, it's Pavlovian.

   39. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: July 19, 2014 at 09:58 AM (#4754235)
I don't know how we got stuck on artificial ballpark sounds, but I guess that means that we agree on all the other old fogeyisms espoused by Bouton.

As another modern data point: when the Giants came to D.C. on a nice July day back in 2012(?) they re-enacted the meeting between the N.Y. Giants and the original D.C. nine that occurred in 1933 in a little exhibition tilt known as the World Series. They went full-tilt, too, with the ushers wearing authentic suits and bow ties, a mockup of the mechanical hand-operated scoreboard on the big CF screen, and NO SOUND. The fans in attendance loved it, young and old.

Alas, it was for but one day, but somewhere Shirley Povich was smiling down on the affair. Don't confuse acceptance for appreciation; maybe people just can't be bothered to complain about the excessive noise, but it doesn't automatically follow that they like it.
   40. BDC Posted: July 19, 2014 at 10:10 AM (#4754241)
Let me sign on completely to #s 21 & 22. If the crowd is lovin' it and making noise spontaneously, then complaint reveals that you don't like sporting events. But nonstop noise for its own sake actually reduces excitement, because there's no downtime or respite. Admittedly the NFL is worse. They saturate the stadium with sound and light fireworks indoors and guys run around with exploding flags and then you remember, for crying out loud, it's November and the Cowboys are playing the Browns. This may be OTT :)

And I disagree that anyone much demands the noise. People *don't* follow the phony prompts or groove to the 8th "Hit the Road Jack" of the game when there's another pitching change. It's just conventional, and it detracts from experiences that aren't noisy per se (concerts, firework shows).
   41. JE (Jason) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4754254)
Speaking as a young person, I'd like to see them curtail the noise before I end up with old-person hearing. But baseball is far, far, far from the worst offender. Yea gods, I think I need a hearing aid after basketball games. It's ridiculous. Bad enough that I'll purposely show up late to miss the over the top player introductions.

I'm hardly a fan of the non-stop noise at Nats Park but if I go deaf prematurely, MLB's off the hook. Instead, I'm blaming the screeching express trains on the IRT I endured as a teenager and the DC ambulances, whose sirens are twice as loud than in any other US city, in my adult years.
   42. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: July 19, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4754260)
Everyone complains about how awful the ballpark experience has become...and yet attendance is at an all-time high, and MLB is a multi-billion dollar business.

Face it: if baseball marketed only to the "purists", the stadiums would be 80% empty.
   43. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4754262)
As another modern data point: when the Giants came to D.C. on a nice July day back in 2012(?) they re-enacted the meeting between the N.Y. Giants and the original D.C. nine that occurred in 1933 in a little exhibition tilt known as the World Series. They went full-tilt, too, with the ushers wearing authentic suits and bow ties, a mockup of the mechanical hand-operated scoreboard on the big CF screen, and NO SOUND. The fans in attendance loved it, young and old.

Alas, it was for but one day,


Whereas several days a year we get teams dressing up in "throwback" uniforms for the sole purpose of selling more jerseys, while the artificial noise remains at 21st century levels.
   44. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4754264)
Everyone complains about how awful the ballpark experience has become...and yet attendance is at an all-time high, and MLB is a multi-billion dollar business.

Face it: if baseball marketed only to the "purists", the stadiums would be 80% empty.


Right, as if 80% of the average crowd consists of people who wouldn't show up if they cut the artificial noise down to the point where people could carry on a normal conversation between pitches. This is the sort of mentality that brings us Poochie, but unlike on The Simpsons, in ballparks the ####### dog just hangs around pissssing on your legs.
   45. McCoy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4754267)
Hyperbole appears to be the best friend of many a grouch.
   46. BDC Posted: July 19, 2014 at 12:48 PM (#4754302)
I wouldn't engage in hyperbole if it were the last trope available on the most distant outpost of a dying Solar System.
   47. puck Posted: July 19, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4754319)
I guess only "old pharts" want to talk baseball with their seat-mates or take a cell phone call during a game, then?


Are most parks so loud during innings that this is a problem? At Coors they do the hitters songs but otherwise it seems easy to have a conversation.

Now, the Pepsi Center (NBA/NHL) is a different story, but even for those events the sound mostly dies down during play. The player intros are ear-splitting.
   48. RatSalade Posted: July 19, 2014 at 01:19 PM (#4754325)
I'm fine with the auditory assault on my senses these days, but have you been party to what I believe the kids are calling a "flash wave" yet?

As annoying as the wave is, last night at the Angels-Mariners game thousands of people got their cell phones out and were flashing the lights on and off. It looks like strings of white Christmas tree lights are strung around the stadium, and goes on for 20 minutes for no other reason than these people can't just sit and enjoy a baseball game.

Admittedly watching most of last night's game was pretty painful, and it may have been that fans were trying to induce a Pokémon-like seizure so they wouldn't have to watch either team try to hit anymore.
   49. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:12 PM (#4754349)
Are most parks so loud during innings that this is a problem? At Coors they do the hitters songs but otherwise it seems easy to have a conversation.

It sure as hell is in the parts of Camden and Nattitude Park that I've been in. Can't speak about the others.
   50. McCoy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:17 PM (#4754352)
Working next to Camden for several months now it has never struck me as a loud stadium and Nats park has loud moments but I've had numerous conversations at the park where I've never noticed the background audio.
   51. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:50 PM (#4754366)
I am old, and it does bother me sometimes, but so what, it's not an issue that anyone should care about unless they want to pull out their old man card.


It's not an age issue. Much of the noise comes from them shoving advertising and marketing down your throat. Yankee Stadium has speakers blaring, between innings, between pitches, doing things like that subway car race (Hey, a commercial for Subway!), Cotton Eyed Joe, and other similar nonsense. (That "Dey-Oh" thing, or whatever the hell it is. Why spur people to yell "Dey-Oh?!" for no particular reason?) They don't let you just sit there in peace, ever, it becomes difficult and exasperating to talk to the person next to you.

It's the main reason I go to very few games now. Maybe one every two or three years. You can find me instead watching a softball game or little league game in central park. The NBA, against all odds (at least at MSG and in Dallas, two places I've been recently) is even worse. I have more fun watching pickup games in the city.

What is the "old man" issue here? They blast noise at you during 95% of the time you're there, and it's an old man issue? No.
   52. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4754367)
Good noise is generated by the crowd, in a spontaneous reaction to play on the field. Pitiful noise is generated by loudspeakers and jumbotrons. Screw that. Real fans don't need it.

Yes, and (while admittedly an old fart) I honestly don't think this is an observation that is necessarily old-fartish.


Yes, and yes. And yes.
   53. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4754370)

Mark Cuban had a blog entry a while back about this topic. Everybody hates the noise, so the Mavs turned it off for a couple of games. Nobody noticed.


What does that mean, nobody noticed?
   54. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4754371)
The simple fact is they wouldn't be piping in the music if they didn't have some type of data saying people like it in one way or another.


I'm no marketing expert, but isn't this wrong? Wouldn't the data be that it increases their bottom line -- not necessarily that people like it?
   55. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:18 PM (#4754381)
Working next to Camden for several months now it has never struck me as a loud stadium and Nats park has loud moments but I've had numerous conversations at the park where I've never noticed the background audio.

Maybe it just depends where you're sitting, but during the last BTF meetup there, Treder and I were sitting one seat apart in the upper deck right behind the plate, and we had to shout at the top of our lungs to be heard over the loudspeakers. Same thing at Nats Park in the RF bleachers, though it wasn't quite as bad there as it was in Baltimore. You had to raise your voice but not shout at the top of your lungs.
   56. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:18 PM (#4754382)
You're right, we're wrong. More people than ever are attending baseball games, therefore nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, can possibly be changed nor improved on. What the hell were we thinking anyway??

KEEP EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME ALWAYS AND FOREVER!!

There. A nice, youngsters' point of view.
   57. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:20 PM (#4754383)
I'm no marketing expert, but isn't this wrong? Wouldn't the data be that it increases their bottom line -- not necessarily that people like it?


I would argue probably both. If people didn't at least tolerate it, you wouldn't have repeat business.

   58. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:24 PM (#4754386)
You're right, we're wrong. More people than ever are attending baseball games, therefore nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, can possibly be changed nor improved on. What the hell were we thinking anyway??


Not saying that, just pointing out that noise complaints is old man nonsense. It's like people complaining about the wave, you don't like it, don't participate, but complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by. Obviously a lot(majority) of people enjoy it, and it doesn't take anything away from your enjoyment of the game having it.

I have no argument against people saying it's too loud, but that is rarely the argument. It's usually "It's too loud and too much, go back to piping in an organ and nothing else." Stadiums want to maintain a certain energy level, the music helps.

   59. Steve Treder Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4754392)
complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by.

Actually, no, not necessarily, at all. It is expressing an opinion that you don't share.
   60. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4754398)
Actually, no, not necessarily, at all. It is expressing an opinion that you don't share.


I don't like the wave either. I just don't see how expressing the wave at a group event distracts one bit from my enjoyment of the game. Lack of tolerance is an old fart symptom.
   61. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4754399)
Not saying that, just pointing out that noise complaints is old man nonsense.


One can't "point out" something that makes no sense.
   62. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 19, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4754418)
You're right, we're wrong. More people than ever are attending baseball games, therefore nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, can possibly be changed nor improved on. What the hell were we thinking anyway??


Not saying that, just pointing out that noise complaints is old man nonsense. It's like people complaining about the wave, you don't like it, don't participate, but complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by.

This gets curiouser and curiouser. Or funnier and funnier. As if a single person in history has begun going to ball games because of The Wave, or would stop going solely because the craze died out.

Just for the record, how do you distinguish an "old fart" complaint from one you'd consider legit?

What about the DH? Do you have to be an old fart to dislike that? (For the record, I like the DH.)

What about divisional play? Or the wild card? Or the second wild card? I like them all, but if anyone objects to them, should they be hauled off to Leisure World?

If you think that the game was better when you were 13, and now you're 25 or 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 or 80, then what? What's the cutoff point? What if you're like many people of all ages, who think that some things are better now while other things are worse? Why do you only ascribe Old Fartism to people who complain about excess noise or The Wave**, but not to the DH or the wildcard postseason?

Obviously a lot(majority) of people enjoy it, and it doesn't take anything away from your enjoyment of the game having it.

So exactly how are you measuring this? Where's your control group? How are you so sure that attendance would drop if they dropped the canned noise (not human noise) to a level where people could hear themselves think?

**Not that they're even remotely the same, since The Wave is only really annoying (make that solipsistic) when it passes directly in front of you during the action and blocks your view, while the excess noise never goes away until the game is over.
   63. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 19, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4754438)
I am the only poster who is truly old so let me state my protest against the use of "old" in this thread

Noise isn't an issue given that I can still hear the crack of the bat. What else matters?

And get rid of the girls acting as cheerleaders. It demeans them and the game

And find someone who can make a good gin martini with mushrooms. I get driven to the games these days so everybody wins

   64. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4754440)
I seem to remember Target Field containing much less pointless noise than NYS, Citi, Safeco, or Angel Stadium, which are the places I've attended most of my ballgames over the years. It was a welcome relief not to have to hear quite so many loud, meaningless songs between innings.

I don't mind the walk-up songs, though they do get a little boring after a while and if I were an MLB player I think I would request silence because the noise would distract me. It's the constant blaring of drums, bad pop music, exhortations to be loud, inane facts about random people in the crowd, attendance figures, "God Bless Mother-####### America", and all that ####, that really makes going to a lot of yards not very fun anymore for this 34-year-old who already has bad hearing.

Oh, and I refuse to stand for "God Bless America". It's not goddamned national anthem.

Get off my lawn.
   65. Bhaakon Posted: July 19, 2014 at 05:42 PM (#4754453)
I don't like the wave either. I just don't see how expressing the wave at a group event distracts one bit from my enjoyment of the game. Lack of tolerance is an old fart symptom.


Except for your view being blocked every fifteen or twenty seconds.

I'm glad I'm a Giants fan. There seems to be a consensus here that anyone doing the wave gets mocked until they knock that crap off.
   66. BDC Posted: July 19, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4754463)
So I take it nobody really *likes* the noise: pro-noise positions reduce to "You're old" and "It must be a good marketing decision because ballclubs could never make mistakes about anything." :)

The calculus is probably correct, though. I go to 20 games a year and might go to 30 if they were brisker and less an assault on the senses. But I pay $6 a ticket, eat nothing. The clubs want people who pay $120 for tickets and food/drink and go once a year, and who can blame them. There are a lot more of them than there are of me. The appeal of A REAL BIG NOISY EVENT!!! probably sustains a lot of once-annually customers. As the Rangers say LOUDLY before every game, "We want tonight to be your best night at the ballpark." I've been there hundreds of times, and the chances of that are not good.

Lest this seem an elitist complaint, I'll point out that my budget is pretty limited. In a sense I'm reacting to the tastes and tolerances of fans who can throw away on a single game what I spend on a whole summer of baseball. Maybe I need to find a quieter and cheaper pastime like spectator horseshoe tournaments or speed reading derbies.
   67. Eddo Posted: July 19, 2014 at 06:02 PM (#4754472)
Harveys's post #63 is the clear winner of this thread.
   68. Sunday silence Posted: July 19, 2014 at 06:22 PM (#4754479)
At least Hitler was right about the vuvuzelas.
   69. greenback calls it soccer Posted: July 19, 2014 at 06:53 PM (#4754499)
What does that mean, nobody noticed?

It means nobody said a damn thing about it. The whining about noise isn't unique to BTF, and there weren't any marvelous reviews of the noise-free experiment in the paper the next day. Nor did Cuban get emails thanking him for a great time. This is where marketing is useful -- some people will pay more money for the Communal Experience, or whatever it is (I don't really came to claim to understand it) behind all the noise. But for the most part the people who are annoyed by the noise will ignore it when deciding what they're willing to pay for a baseball ticket.
   70. cardsfanboy Posted: July 19, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4754503)
It means nobody said a damn thing about it. The whining about noise isn't unique to BTF, and there weren't any marvelous reviews of the noise-free experiment in the paper the next day. Nor did Cuban get emails thanking him for a great time. This is where marketing is useful -- some people will pay more money for the Communal Experience, or whatever it is (I don't really came to claim to understand it) behind all the noise. But for the most part the people who are annoyed by the noise will ignore it when deciding what they're willing to pay for a baseball ticket.


But did anyone complain about the lack of noise? Considering that you have loud noise and people complain about the noise or no noise and nobody says anything, wouldn't that indicate that the lack of noise is probably preferred? or at least less of a nuisance.
   71. JE (Jason) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 08:10 PM (#4754532)
Oh, and I refuse to stand for "God Bless America". It's not goddamned national anthem.

The seventh-inning stretch isn't the national anthem either but surely you stand for that.
   72. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 19, 2014 at 08:34 PM (#4754540)
The seventh-inning stretch isn't the national anthem either but surely you stand for that.


These days? Nope.
   73. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 20, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4754583)
I do think that the GBA in the 7th inning is needless and an overkill, an empty display of patriotism done for... marketing.
   74. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 20, 2014 at 12:17 AM (#4754588)
I do think that the GBA in the 7th inning is needless and an overkill, an empty display of patriotism done for... marketing.

Or to provide a patriotic cover for the Steinbrenners in case the feds ever thought of indicting them on general principles. I don't mind GBA myself, but sometimes the Yankees seem like Dana Carvey's parody of GHWB's "Operation Desert Storm" State of the Union speech.
   75. greenback calls it soccer Posted: July 20, 2014 at 01:03 AM (#4754599)
But did anyone complain about the lack of noise?

No one said anything, because no one cares.
   76. Carlo Paz Posted: July 20, 2014 at 01:35 AM (#4754605)
It's like people complaining about the wave, you don't like it, don't participate, but complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by.

That's just what the guys down the hall used to say when people would complain about them having concert level jam session at midnight on work nights. I was always amazed how civilized, almost apologetic people would be when they would knock on the door to complain. I personally find it very difficult to muster that sort of restraint.

As usual, I think there must be a spectrum of responses to offensive behavior. To identify all such complaints as "old man farts" is to paint with too broad a brush. If some kids are doing the wave in the seventh inning of a 9-2 Padres-Cubs game in April, then yeah, why bother complaining. But if some idiot keeps jumping up in front of me on every pitch in the ninth inning of a nail biting thriller, complaining is the appropriate course of action and not doing so is akin to allowing oneself to be used as a doormat.
   77. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 20, 2014 at 07:46 AM (#4754623)
It's like people complaining about the wave, you don't like it, don't participate, but complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by.

That's just what the guys down the hall used to say when people would complain about them having concert level jam session at midnight on work nights.


When we lived in DC we had a next door apartment neighbor just like that. Polite requests to turn down the volume didn't do any good, but after the third visit from the cops and a warning from the landlord, he finally got the message and we got along fine after that.
   78. BDC Posted: July 20, 2014 at 08:41 AM (#4754630)
When BDC Jr. was a baby the neighbors could be heard at 9pm or so one night so ex-BDC went over and read them the Riot Act. Come to find that the noisemakers were the Baptist Student Association. A game of Pictionary had gotten out of hand. They were mortified by their behavior.
   79. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 20, 2014 at 09:17 AM (#4754636)
When we lived in DC we had a next door apartment neighbor just like that. Polite requests to turn down the volume didn't do any good, but after the third visit from the cops and a warning from the landlord, he finally got the message and we got along fine after that.


Frasier had an episode that dealt with this. A rock star "Freddie the Chainsaw" moved in upstairs and Frasier couldn't get him to stop the loud jam sessions. At one point during the loud music Frasier stood up and yelled, "Doesn't he ever stop for sex or drugs?!?!?!"

I found it funny.
   80. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 20, 2014 at 10:44 AM (#4754646)
And then there was the classic Seinfeld episode where Jerry surreptitiously blocked Elaine from moving into the apartment above him---he dreaded the thought of pop-in visits---only to see the apartment taken over by a band that used it for practicing day and night.
   81. Eddo Posted: July 20, 2014 at 01:55 PM (#4754692)
It's like people complaining about the wave, you don't like it, don't participate, but complaining about it just shows you are a non-fun old fart who enjoyment long ago passed you by.
That's just what the guys down the hall used to say when people would complain about them having concert level jam session at midnight on work nights.

But that's a totally different scenario. The guys playing loud music at midnight on work nights are preventing you from sleeping, and being productive in the rest of your life. People doing the wave (or playing loud music at a public gathering) are doing no such thing.
   82. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: July 20, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4754705)
I guess you missed the OMNICHATTER last night? A bunch of "fans" in D.C. decided to do The Wave and rose up in unison in the section directly behind home plate--right in the middle of Jerry Blevins' pitching motion. He gave up a 2-run tater to Ryan Braun.

Yes, the Nats were winning 8-1 before the pitch and I can't guarantee cause-effect in this instance, but it shows a complete lack of understanding of the game or even involvement in it if the fans are so wrapped up in their own little world. What if it had been a tie game?

I think that all the "fans" who do The Wave compulsively should all gather in a nice big college or high school gym and do The Wave continuously for the duration of the baseball game and get it out of their system; meanwhile, the rest of us at the ballpark can enjoy the game unfolding in front of us without temporarily-obstructed view seats.

Failing that, I'm considering a Kickstarter campaign to build the WaveMower! It's a drone that flies around the stands with a set of long, very sharp blades that hacks off the arms of people as they rise up to do The Wave. Think an airborne version of that large machine in Caligula that lopped off the heads of the unfortunates buried in the ground in its path. I think it's a winner!
   83. Eddo Posted: July 20, 2014 at 05:06 PM (#4754761)
Oh, don't get me wrong - I despise the wave and don't really care for the volume of the music played in ballparks.

I was mostly just pointing out the flawed comparison.
   84. PreservedFish Posted: July 20, 2014 at 05:29 PM (#4754773)
I had a Fifa game in which the announcer would say something like, "This game is so boring that the fans have revived the Mexican Wave."
   85. Baldrick Posted: July 20, 2014 at 06:02 PM (#4754798)
I HATE the wave. Just like I HATE the kiss-cam. And stadiums are certainly much more full of artificial noise than I would like.

But I put up with these things because they are the cost of going to baseball games. And I don't believe that my opinion counts more than everyone else's. But it IS my opinion and it's not unreasonable to say so. The wave is the ####### worst.
   86. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: July 20, 2014 at 06:07 PM (#4754801)
EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!

CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP.

I love that one. It just sounds great in the ballpark.
   87. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 20, 2014 at 06:17 PM (#4754805)
No one said anything, because no one cares.


Or they've been rendered deaf by the noise they shut off for those few games.
   88. Carlo Paz Posted: July 21, 2014 at 08:29 AM (#4755008)
But that's a totally different scenario. The guys playing loud music at midnight on work nights are preventing you from sleeping, and being productive in the rest of your life. People doing the wave (or playing loud music at a public gathering) are doing no such thing.

The common denominator is people being inconsiderate of other people's experience. The guy on the subway blasting music on his cell phone is also "a totally different scenario". So is the lady that brings the crying baby into a movie theater. ALL of those scenarios feature someone being inconsiderate. The consequences of those actions are not the aspect that I was highlighting.
   89. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 21, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4755042)
"MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!!!!"

And the lemmings make noise.

   90. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 21, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4755045)
But that's a totally different scenario. The guys playing loud music at midnight on work nights are preventing you from sleeping, and being productive in the rest of your life. People doing the wave (or playing loud music at a public gathering) are doing no such thing.


The common denominator is people being inconsiderate of other people's experience. The guy on the subway blasting music on his cell phone is also "a totally different scenario". So is the lady that brings the crying baby into a movie theater. ALL of those scenarios feature someone being inconsiderate. The consequences of those actions are not the aspect that I was highlighting.

Exactly. The logic behind all of these scenarios seems to be (a) I have a legal right to do what I'm doing, and I like doing it, (b) your inconvenience isn't my concern, so therefore (c) just STFU and go away. The wave is the least worst for the sole reason that it only passes in front of you for a few seconds, but why can't they just do it in between innings?
   91. BDC Posted: July 21, 2014 at 11:01 AM (#4755087)
The guys playing loud music at midnight on work nights are preventing you from sleeping … People doing the wave (or playing loud music at a public gathering) are doing no such thing

Actually, if you're at a 2014 Texas Rangers game, they certainly are preventing you from sleeping.
   92. SandyRiver Posted: July 21, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4755183)
I seem to remember Target Field containing much less pointless noise than NYS, Citi, Safeco, or Angel Stadium, which are the places I've attended most of my ballgames over the years. It was a welcome relief not to have to hear quite so many loud, meaningless songs between innings.


Have not been in a MLB ballpark since 1993 - saw Winfield get #3,000 at the Metrodome. Maybe TC baseball fans (or ballpark personnel) are more ear-considerate, but I don't recall super-loud piped-in sounds. The roar when that hit reached the outfield was by far the loudest of the night. I've no use for near-continuous high volume sound, and I'd remember if the "Dome had been an ear-splitter. Going much farther back, I can recall a Sept day game in Baltimore, mid-60s pre-Robbie when the Birds would be out of it by then, with a crowd of perhaps 3,000 and so quiet I could hear the infield chatter from my upper deck seat in the old Muni. Unfair to expect that ever again. (Does infield chatter still exist in MLB? Can the pitcher even hear it?)
   93. CrosbyBird Posted: July 21, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4755197)
The seventh-inning stretch isn't the national anthem either but surely you stand for that.

Of course! The seventh-inning stretch is about working out the stiffness in your muscles for sitting hunched over for the past two hours or so, and Take Me Out to the Ballgame is a fun song.

GBA is a terrible song and should never be played anywhere, but particularly should not be played at a baseball game.
   94. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 21, 2014 at 12:43 PM (#4755205)
GBA is a terrible song and should never be played anywhere, but particularly should not be played at a baseball game.


The Kate Smith version they play at Yankee Stadium is just creepy.
   95. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: July 21, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4755220)
“They’re pounding you with advertising from the moment you walk in the stadium,” he says. “You can’t even think anymore. When I went to ballparks like the Polo Grounds, it was like a holy place. Quiet. You could hear the crack of the bat at batting practice.”

A pedant would point out here the big huge massive Knickerbocker beer ad in CF at the Polo Grounds.
   96. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: July 21, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4755221)
Sandy Koufax. Yes, that's right: Against all odds, in attempting to cite a pitcher who could throw 300 innings year after year without breaking, Francesa named... Sandy Koufax, the pitcher whose arm fell off from overuse at age 30. The caller following his presentation was like, "Dude... you're citing Sandy Koufax?"

Not only was Koufax extremely durable, he also had fungibility.
   97. PreservedFish Posted: July 21, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4755226)
There was an article in yesterday's Times about new scoreboard technology. It gives a peak into the decision making process of these people.

So in a twist that would make Marshall McLuhan proud, teams are trying to recreate the living room experience in stadiums...

"We see the living room as our biggest competitor ... our job is to help the venue manager with fresh content. We can give fans a reason to stay."

...

The prevailing wisdom among sports executives now is that younger fans raised on smartphones are less willing to attend live events because they are cut off from the online content they find compelling. Giant scoreboards, they hope, will quench that digital addiction while generating new advertising revenue.
   98. Eddo Posted: July 21, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4755227)
The common denominator is people being inconsiderate of other people's experience. The guy on the subway blasting music on his cell phone is also "a totally different scenario". So is the lady that brings the crying baby into a movie theater. ALL of those scenarios feature someone being inconsiderate. The consequences of those actions are not the aspect that I was highlighting.

I don't see music and the wave in stadiums to be nearly as inconsiderate as your other examples.

The expectation for a subway train, a movie theater, or an apartment building at midnight is to be quiet. The expectation for a baseball game is to be loud.
   99. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 21, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4755229)
GBA is a terrible song and should never be played anywhere, but particularly should not be played at a baseball game.


The Kate Smith version they play at Yankee Stadium is just creepy.

Maybe so, but it's certainly no creepier than 90% of those "Grammy Award winning" singers' torturing of the SSB.** They should just get a good reorded Army band version of that song and forget the marketing tie-ins.

**Thank God for the mute button, which unfortuntely they don't provide at the park.
   100. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: July 21, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4755230)
I kind of always chalked Hargrove's act to psychological issues/mental blockage. He wasn't so much adjusting #### left and right just to adjust #### left and right, as just getting himself ready mentally.

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