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Thursday, October 26, 2017

Joe Girardi will not return as manager as Yankees ‘decided not to bring me back’

Joe Girardi is done in the Bronx.

The Yankees decided to part ways with Girardi after ten years at the helm, GM Brian Cashman announced on Thursday.

“I want to thank Joe for his 10 years of hard work and service to this organization,” GM Brian Cashman said. “Everything this organization does is done with careful and thorough consideration, and we’ve decided to pursue alternatives for the managerial position.”

Girardi, 53, leaves the Bombers with a 910-710 managerial record since 2008.

Doesn’t this seem a little late to make this move?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:19 AM | 136 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brian cashman, ghost of george steinbrenner, joe girardi, yankees

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   1. Greg Pope Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5562851)
The team was expected to be, what, .500 this year? And they went to the 7th game of the ALCS. Setting aside Girardi's actual ability and influence, you wouldn't expect to see a manager fired after that kind of year.
   2. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5562855)
Wow, as a non Yankee fan this is a shocker. Was there a lot of rumors/whispers about this?
   3. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5562857)
A friend just informed me that good ol' Suzyn Waldman, without even knowing who will be the next skipper, just compared Girardi's departure to Showalter's.

LOL. Don't ever change, Suzyn.
   4. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5562859)
There were some rumors that Girardi might walk away, but I can't remember hearing anything about the Yankees not wanting to bring him back.

This seems ... rash.
   5. Lassus Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:32 AM (#5562860)
Odd. PTI yesterday addressed this, and it seemed preposterous. I guess not.
   6. Brian Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5562863)
Yankee fan, never a Joe Girardi guy. I thought he did well enough in the regular season but managed to overthink himself into a hole in the post season. I actually thought he did a very good job this season. They better have someone really good in mind or this is just dumb.
   7. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5562864)
Huge mistake in my opinion. I don't think Girardi is a genius but if I had a steady and well-respected hand like his at the helm I'd be tempted to name him manager for life.
   8. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5562866)
What positions are still open - Nats? Although I thought I read they've settled on who they'll pick but it wasn't formal yet.
   9. Fat Al Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5562867)
Cashman powerplay. It'll be one of his guys (assuming there is such a thing).
   10. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5562869)
Dusty Baker is available.
   11. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5562872)
I hate the Yankees, but like and respect Girardi. It's not like Joe Torre will be walking through that door, I am not sure what the hell Cashman and Hal were thinking here, but if this means a potential WS champion falls on their face next year, the whole front office deserves it.
   12. APNY Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5562873)
They must have someone in mind. Maybe Pedrique who managed all the kids in the minors.
   13. The Good Face Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5562874)
Yankee fan, never a Joe Girardi guy. I thought he did well enough in the regular season but managed to overthink himself into a hole in the post season. I actually thought he did a very good job this season. They better have someone really good in mind or this is just dumb.


Yankee fan and Girardi guy, but endorse this conclusion. Unless they have somebody really good in mind (who?), this is a dumb decision. Girardi's teams overachieved more often than not, he'd demonstrated the ability to handle New York and the media, he had the respect of his players, and outside of A-Rod's issues near the end of his career, his teams were mostly drama free.

Plus I liked his Gil Thorpe haircut. That's a haircut you can set your watch to!
   14. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5562875)
Could some of the players - Sanchez notably - let the front office know they don't really like playing for him? I'm seeing people allude to that, but I'd be surprised that'd be enough unless it was a majority of players or something.
   15. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5562877)
Could some of the players - Sanchez notably - let the front office know they don't really like playing for him?


"Joe keeps riding my ass about this 'catch the ball' thing he says a catcher should do. What's up with that?"
   16. dlf Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5562879)
Both Olney and Kurkjian had been reporting that Girardi was likely out at the end of the year, with the biggest question over whether he even wanted to stay. My understanding is that he was around mid-tier in managerial pay and, if he was to stay, it would only be if NYY moved him to the top end of the scale.

I don't watch many Yankee games so I have no informed opinion on his tactical choices. But I think he did a great job of keeping an even keel through the transition from the Jeter years, handling of many high-priced washed up players, to breaking in the new crop that will be the core going forward. Few managers do as well with both youth and vets.
   17. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5562881)
This is ####### crazy.
   18. Bote Man Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5562882)
Nats fans and journalists are all aTwitter thinking Girardi will come to D.C.

But he made $4M/year with the Yankees and the Nationals have shown a great distaste for paying big buck$ to managers, although Davey reportedly made $5M when he was managing the Nationals. Maybe we will see a swap: Dusty to NYY, Girardi to WAS? That would be...interesting, but I doubt it'll happen.
   19. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5562883)
As a Red Sox fan this is disappointing, as I never thought he was a particularly good manager. This could just be a style thing- given the circumstances, Francona is the platonic ideal of a manager for most Red Sox fans, so I just don't get the constantly on edge demeanor of a guy like Girardi. Unfortunately I'm sure they'll be fine no matter who they hire.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5562884)
My understanding is that he was around mid-tier in managerial pay and, if he was to stay, it would only be if NYY moved him to the top end of the scale.


So the Yanks were too cheap? Give me a break.
   21. SoSH U at work Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5562885)
Girardi's teams overachieved more often than not,


That's what I think. I look at the guys that have come through there in his tenure, and there are an awful lot of guys who are just better than anyone expected them to be.
   22. Bote Man Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5562888)
thom loverro @thomloverro
And why would Girardi sign multi-year deal with #Nationals if GM who hired him has no job security beyond next year?
   23. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5562889)
What positions are still open - Nats? Although I thought I read they've settled on who they'll pick but it wasn't formal yet.

There's at least one Post writer who's already chimed in on this:

If Nationals are serious about a World Series, they should make Joe Girardi an offer
   24. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5562890)
This just seems like such a major self-inflicted risk for no readily apparent reward.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5562891)
Dumb, dumb, dumb,

And why would Girardi sign multi-year deal with #Nationals if GM who hired him has no job security beyond next year?

Because manager contracts are guaranteed. Signing a 4/20 contract, and getting canned after one year is a pretty awesome outcome, financially.
   26. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5562893)
Francona is the platonic ideal of a manager for most Red Sox fans, so I just don't get the constantly on edge demeanor of a guy like Girardi.


Demeanor deshmeanor. I think they are similar in their abilities and I think both teams were nuts. You live in one of these media circus towns, if you've got a manager that can somehow keep everyone shut up and tamp down on the drama, and he's not a total dolt tactically, you hold onto him for life.
   27. Astroenteritis Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5562894)
Geez, is losing to Houston in the playoffs a fireable offense now?
   28. JC in DC Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5562897)
I respect JG quite a bit, but I endorse this move. Joe is hard. He did a very good job with the team, but 10 years is a long time for a manager to stay fresh in a situation. Maybe as a Raiders fan I'm drawn to the idea 10 years is about more than enough, but I think that's right. And, given the young guys and near complete roster turnover, this is a good opportunity to add someone new.

Let's also not go overboard in overstating any manager's value. Joe was good, but it cannot be the case that managers don't matter much and that this is a stupid decision. Pedrique, or any handful of guys, can do a good job. I'm actually excited by the opportunity for them to hire someone different. And, given his performance as GM, I have near implicit and unqualified confidence in Cashman.
   29. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5562898)
Demeanor deshmeanor. I think they are similar in their abilities and I think both teams were nuts. You live in one of these media circus towns, if you've got a manager that can somehow keep everyone shut up and tamp down on the drama, and he's not a total dolt tactically, you hold onto him for life.

That's not remotely how I would describe the Gary Sanchez situation this year. That's only one thing in a long career, but that was weird and entirely unnecessary.
   30. Blastin Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5562901)
I am indifferent on him. But who on earth is available that will be better?

That said, managers don't really have that much of an impact. But seriously WHO.

...but maybe they'll find a mastermind in the wilderness.
   31. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5562903)
I am indifferent on him. But who on earth is available that will be better?


(Insert A-Rod deep breathe GIF)
   32. The Good Face Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5562904)
I respect JG quite a bit, but I endorse this move. Joe is hard. He did a very good job with the team, but 10 years is a long time for a manager to stay fresh in a situation. Maybe as a Raiders fan I'm drawn to the idea 10 years is about more than enough, but I think that's right. And, given the young guys and near complete roster turnover, this is a good opportunity to add someone new.


I think you're way undervaluing Girardi's ability to avoid drama/clubhouse problems. It's easy to take that for granted because Yankee managers have been successful at it for over 20 years now, but it shouldn't be taken as a given. A new guy could wind up creating a complete tire fire.

And, given his performance as GM, I have near implicit and unqualified confidence in Cashman.


Does the 10 year freshness rule not apply to GMs?
   33. oscar madisox Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5562905)
Think the Mets regret hiring Calloway so quickly?

   34. SoSH U at work Posted: October 26, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5562907)
He did a very good job with the team, but 10 years is a long time for a manager to stay fresh in a situation.


Generally I'd agree with this*, except he's probably done his best work the last two years (I still think he should have been manager of the year last year for coaxing 84 wins out of that team).

Joe was good, but it cannot be the case that managers don't matter much and that this is a stupid decision.


That's only true if you believe the former. That's not a given.

* And is why I didn't have a problem with the Sox letting Tito go when they did.
   35. JC in DC Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5562908)
[32]: No, it doesn't. Very different roles. It didn't apply to Al, and it doesn't, and shouldn't to Cashman.

I agree with jmurph: Girardi mishandled the Sanchez thing this year. And all year long there have been grumblings about players not being keen on Joe's somewhat hard (or severe) style. I'm not going to run JG down, or undervalue him, but I understand seizing the opportunity to move on.
   36. bunyon Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5562910)
Let's also not go overboard in overstating any manager's value. Joe was good, but it cannot be the case that managers don't matter much and that this is a stupid decision. Pedrique, or any handful of guys, can do a good job. I'm actually excited by the opportunity for them to hire someone different. And, given his performance as GM, I have near implicit and unqualified confidence in Cashman.

This is true and I agree with it while also thinking it's a bad idea when the manager was successful. For a similar reason, I think letting Farrell go was a bad idea. People need to know that success will be rewarded. If I win and get punished, why would I bust my ass? So the next Yankee (or Red Sox) manager knows that he isn't safe even with admirable success.

If you want to make a change for "freshness" you do so after an off-year or explicit lapse of judgement. In neither case is that clear.
   37. Nasty Nate Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5562911)
I'm not sure what you guys mean about the importance of a manager being fresh in a situation.

Generally speaking, I think stability is better than freshness.
   38. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5562921)
One thing I am sure of is the timing for this wasn't until the Red Sox and Mets had committed to who they had as managers.
   39. Blastin Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5562922)
One thing I am sure of is the timing for this wasn't until the Red Sox and Mets had committed to who they had as managers.


LOL yeah I bet the Mets are like OH COME ON.
   40. Fat Al Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5562925)
And, given his performance as GM, I have near implicit and unqualified confidence in Cashman.


Jacoby Ellsbury and Aroldis Chapman 2.0 (FA signing) say hi.
   41. Howie Menckel Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5562926)
2009 is a long time ago.

since then you have 8 years of winning records and no pennants, much less WS titles.

he also seems like a guy you'd get tired of dealing with after a while. #lightenupfrancis

Nationals are the LAST team that should hire him (see Point 2), but he could do well somewhere else for a while.
   42. Lassus Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5562928)
LOL yeah I bet the Mets are like OH COME ON.

Eh, maybe, but I doubt it. I don't think the Mets wanted to pay him, probably.
   43. Bote Man Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5562930)
4merMetJustinTurner‏ @BenCarsley 2h2 hours ago
Dusty Baker, Joe Girardi, and John Farrell walk into a bar. They order politely, tip well, then get thrown out because the bartender is bored.
   44. Blastin Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5562932)
Jacoby Ellsbury and Aroldis Chapman 2.0 (FA signing) say hi.


I sort of get the impression that Ellsbury was a Cano-departure panic move before Cashman got Full Power. That one stinks of headline-chasing.

But yes, he's made himself some mistakes.
   45. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5562933)
With managers there's this stupid grass is always greener thing with regard to style or personality. If you've got a loose Uncle Robbie then when he starts to lose all of a sudden you want a taskmaster at the helm to tighten things up. Then that team sucks and suddenly you need a lax, friendly manager again.
   46. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5562936)
Domingo Ayala will be the next manager.

   47. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5562937)
I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter gives the Cashman permission to woo Mattingly.
   48. Textbook Editor Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5562938)
I have to say, this move really surprises me... in that I'm really not sure who they'd hire who would wind up being better in the *specific* NYC cauldron.

I suppose it's clear *something* was going on behind the scenes, though, because to me the Yankees really overachieved given what was expected, and some of that *has* to be attributed to Girardi, doesn't it?

I mean, I'm no fan of Girardi, but I do respect the job he was able to do in a position few would have his success in... him leaving (to me) makes the Yankees worse for 2018, so as a Red Sox fan I'm all for this move.
   49. SoSH U at work Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5562941)
But yes, he's made himself some mistakes.


I thought the mistakes were Big Stein/Hal/Hank's. The good decisions were his.
   50. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5562944)
One thing I am sure of is the timing for this wasn't until the Red Sox and Mets had committed to who they had as managers.


LOL yeah I bet the Mets are like OH COME ON.



Meh. I don't think the Mets would have ever in in the running for JG's services.
   51. bfan Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5562946)
So the managers of 3 of the final 8 teams in the play-offs got fired? Since 2 teams are still playing, I suppose we cannot rule out that number growing to 4, with the manager whose team loses the world series having by virtue of that loss committed an unpardonable sin.
   52. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5562948)
Since 2 teams are still playing, I suppose we cannot rule out that number growing to 4, with the manager whose team loses the world series having by virtue of that loss committed an unpardonable sin.

I think the only one we know for sure can be pinned on not winning more playoff games is Baker, since the Nationals said as much. Dombrowski at least claims that isn't why Farrell was let go, and given that the Yankees are seen by many as having overachieved this year, it's unlikely Girardi is being let go specifically due to the ALCS loss.
   53. bunyon Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5562949)
I mean, if the Dodgers lose to the Astros I believe they are required to fire Roberts. It's a shame but those are the rules.
   54. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5562950)
As a Yankee fan but anti-Girardi guy, I agree with this move. I found Girardi to be a bit faux-telligent, and if he was pushed off his pre-planned formula in any context he'd quickly go off the rails. He was such an uncreative joyless grinder.

I'm hoping they have a no-name hire in mind who they are going to use to implement some crazy new tactical #### they're cooking up in analytics.
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5562953)
I found Girardi to be a bit faux-Telligent,

He has a degree in engineering from Northwestern. I'm pretty sure he's actually intelligent.

I'm hoping they have a no-name hire in mind who they are going to use to implement some crazy new tactical #### they're cooking up in analytics.

God no. That's absolutely the worst outcome. Tactics is like 1% of baseball success.
   56. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5562954)
I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter gives the Cashman permission to woo Mattingly.
So he can hire Girardi.

I dunno, I guess if I were in charge I'd expect more than 1 WS appearance in 10 years if I gave my manager the highest payroll in baseball to work with every season.
   57. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: October 26, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5562955)
since then you have 8 years of winning records and no pennants, much less WS titles.

A more accurate way to put that: Kept having winning records even with rosters that didn't warrant them; could not walk on water.
   58. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5562956)
[32]: No, it doesn't. Very different roles. It didn't apply to Al, and it doesn't, and shouldn't to Cashman.

Theo talked about it when he came to the Cubs, that he believed it because it was something Bill Walsh was big on and why he felt he should move on from the Red Sox.
   59. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:01 PM (#5562958)
I dunno, I guess if I were in charge I'd expect more than 1 WS appearance in 10 years if I gave my manager the highest payroll in baseball to work with every season.


That's one of my favorite anti-Yankee arguments, but you gotta admit, a lot of this year's payroll was sunk costs (A-Rod, Teixeira, etc.)
   60. Bote Man Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:02 PM (#5562959)
The team that wins the World Series will fire its manager for not winning the Galaxy Series.
   61. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:02 PM (#5562960)

He has a degree in engineering from Northwestern. I'm pretty sure he's actually intelligent.


woooo (makes jerky jerky motion)
   62. KronicFatigue Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5562961)
A more accurate way to put that: Kept having winning records even with rosters that didn't warrant them; could not walk on water.


If a guy's been managing a team for 10 years, is it even possible to measure if they over/under achieved? How can you measure the "talent" of the Yankees, at least the ones that stuck around for a long time w/o indirectly incorporating Giradi's influence. For example, how talented is CC Sabathia w/ vs w/o Girardi?
   63. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5562964)
Hal has told Cashman to scout the American League, the National League and the Negro Leagues for a suitable replacement.
   64. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:12 PM (#5562969)
Bobby Valentine is tanned, rested and ready.
   65. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5562971)
Dude makes the playoffs damn near every year, even this year in a "re-building" year. Everybody knows that is the goal, getting in. Winning it is a crapshoot. If it's not broke don't fix it. I'd be surprised if the Yanks don't end up being sorry for this move. I suspect Dusty Baker is high on their list.
   66. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5562972)
I miss the comforting certainty we had in these moments back when Billy Martin was alive.
   67. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5562973)
'zop, are you this nakedly elitist in real life, or is it a secret side that you air out in anonymity over the internet?
   68. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:15 PM (#5562974)
I do think Girardi was acting a little crazy this year, making all sorts of silly arguments that probably lost him some credibility with the umps. Maybe he was looking over his shoulder? But overall I'd say he's done nothing to warrant even a consideration of being fired.
   69. The Duke Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5562975)
And yet Mike Matheny keeps on trucking delivering worse results each year. Even rewarded with new contract. Not sure about letting Girardi/Baker go but it does signal that winning is all that matters when you have dominant teams. Girardi should have multiple job offers - he’s better than 80% of the existing managers.
   70. The Good Face Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5562977)
God no. That's absolutely the worst outcome. Tactics is like 1% of baseball success.


It's called playing the percentages. It's what smart managers do to win ball games.
   71. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5562981)
I'm not sure what you guys mean about the importance of a manager being fresh in a situation.


One of the key things for a manager (in any line of work) to do is motivate his people. Every person has a limited toolkit to achieve that and of course every person has a limited set of tools that will work. I think there comes a time when a manager's ability to motivate/inspire his team dwindles.

Having said that I was actually having this conversation recently. I think in the case of Girardi and the Yankees there has been enough turnover that the freshness is not as big an issue. Francona and the Sox had a lot of key players who had been with him for a long time and I think he may have gotten stale.
   72. Captain Supporter Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5562982)
Of course, no one here knows what really happens behind the scenes, but from my fan's perspective Joe was an outstanding manager and I'm sorry to see him go. I assume that Brian Cashman has a replacement plan in place. I hope it is a promising inside guy, because it hard for me to see anyone promising among the pool of ex-manager types.

This does remind me of 1995 since Joe's style (and ability) is not dissimilar to Buck's.

   73. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5562984)
That's one of my favorite anti-Yankee arguments, but you gotta admit, a lot of this year's payroll was sunk costs (A-Rod, Teixeira, etc.)

Their active, 25 man roster is the 2nd most expensive in baseball, according to this.
   74. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5562988)
Girardi is also the first Yankees manager to lose consecutive division titles to the Red Sox during his watch. Heads must roll.
   75. bunyon Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5562989)
I dunno, I guess if I were in charge I'd expect more than 1 WS appearance in 10 years if I gave my manager the highest payroll in baseball to work with every season.

If you acknowledge that missing the Series since 2009 is due to random chance, you have to acknowledge that winning 4 of 5 was as well. Yankee management can't afford to do that even if it is true.

The overwhelmingly likely thing is that this doesn't have a big impact on next year's record.

The next most likely thing is that this makes them worse than they'd have been with Girardi (who is, generally, seen as slightly above average).

It is also possible they improve significantly. Of course, much like what would have happened had Hill stayed in to pitch the 5th, we'll never know the answer for certain.
   76. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5562990)
That's one of my favorite anti-Yankee arguments, but you gotta admit, a lot of this year's payroll was sunk costs (A-Rod, Teixeira, etc.)
Tex was a FA after last season. They paid a total of $26.5M to ARod and McCann. And many teams have dead weight on their rosters - the Dodgers are paying over $47M to players to not play for them, Boston over $22M, Colorado $26M. Seven of 10 playoff teams had >$1M in dead weight. And until the past 2 seasons, those bad contracts never kept the Yankees from getting whatever players they wanted.

We don't know if the NYY brass saw this as a "make or break" contract for Girardi (he was, after all, not fired but won't be given a new contract). They didn't win the division once in those 4 seasons (5, going back to his previous contract) and have won a single playoff series over those 5 seasons.

With a different team, one that doesn't have the resources and expectations of the Yankees, I might raise an eyebrow over the manager not getting another contract. But the dude was making $4M/yr, managing one of the most expensive payrolls in the game (and only after he was managing the most expensive payroll), and just didn't have the results they had to be looking for.
   77. Nasty Nate Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:31 PM (#5562993)
One of the key things for a manager (in any line of work) to do is motivate his people. Every person has a limited toolkit to achieve that and of course every person has a limited set of tools that will work. I think there comes a time when a manager's ability to motivate/inspire his team dwindles.
I see what you mean. But I don't think we should assume that managers automatically get worse at motivating people as time goes on. They can get wiser, and improve their tools.
   78. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5562995)
Dude makes the playoffs damn near every year, even this year in a "re-building" year.
Dude has made the playoffs twice in the past 5 seasons, once losing the WC game.
   79. Lassus Posted: October 26, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5562996)
They didn't win the division once in those 4 seasons (5, going back to his previous contract) and have won a single playoff series over those 5 seasons.

Whole lotta managers in that group.
   80. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5563016)
From Andrew Marchand at ESPN.

During the season, there was a clash over the ineffective Chris Carter, whom the Yankees' analytics staff thought of more highly than Girardi did.
   81. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5563017)
Whole lotta managers in that group.
Those managers:

1. Don't manage for the Yankees
2. Don't have the resources the Yankees manager has
3. Don't make $4M/yr
4. Don't manage a team that made the playoffs 17/18 years prior to that
5. Don't manage a team that finished 1st 14/19 years prior to that

In a vacuum, Girardi's teams did a decent job. But that's the point - he didn't manage in a vacuum, he managed the most successful franchise in professional American sports (both recently and historically), and was given resources no other manager gets.
   82. Blastin Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5563022)
Axisa from RAB speculates these folks are possibilities: the coaching staff (including former managers Pena and Rothschild), but that's sort of a given that they have to be mentioned, Eric Chavez, Trey Hillman, Jay Bell (who I had no idea was managing in the Yankees system - wtf), Pedrique (who has managed all of those kids), and things like Giambi and Ibanez, which, lol.

I wouldn't mind some of those, though. Chances are by not throwing Clippard at a bunch of early season games we're likely to have a better record. I don't see a Valentine disaster in the offing.
   83. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5563029)
Ok so he "only" made the playoffs 6 years out of 10. Better than most. Not his fault the Yankees had to shed a lot of payroll leaving him to try and win with old used up veterans and nobodies. Not his fault they signed Ellsbury or let Cano walk. Everybody thought it was a miracle they finished over .500 in 2015 and 2016.
   84. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5563033)
Jay Bell (who I had no idea was managing in the Yankees system - wtf)


I recall hearing earlier this year that the Yankees *love* Jay Bell and were planning to groom him for some sort of role on the big club. FWIW.
   85. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5563034)
"Don't have the resources the Yankees manager has"

Agreed but the resources were all tied up in guys hurt/not performing. Albatross contracts handicap the manager too.
   86. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5563039)
73

Their active, 25 man roster is the 2nd most expensive in baseball, according to this.


I haven't clicked the link, but without looking, I'd suspect most of that is Ellsbury & CC.
   87. PreservedFish Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5563043)
I recall hearing earlier this year that the Yankees *love* Jay Bell and were planning to groom him for some sort of role on the big club.


He must be smart, at least. I mean he wore glasses.
   88. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5563046)
Ok so he "only" made the playoffs 6 years out of 10. Better than most.
Again, in a vacuum. But the previous manager went to the playoffs every one of his 12 seasons, and Girardi's teams made the playoffs just twice in the past 5 years.
Not his fault the Yankees had to shed a lot of payroll leaving him to try and win with old used up veterans and nobodies. Not his fault they signed Ellsbury or let Cano walk. Everybody thought it was a miracle they finished over .500 in 2015 and 2016.
Completely irrelevant; he was expected to win with the players he was given**. I guarantee he wasn't given $4M/yr to manage an 86 win team (they've averaged 86.5 over his current contract).

Also left unsaid - attendance is down 20% since Yankee Stadium III opened, and has fallen steadily over that time; that hits the owners in the pocketbook.

**Which, in the end, is all that matters. If the FO thinks they gave him a winning hand (no matter what "everybody thought"), and he doesn't win, they're going to find someone who can.
   89. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5563057)
If the FO thinks they gave him a winning hand they are cracked, but I agree it's their call. He finally had some potential this year and made a deep playoff run. And the $4M a year you repeatedly mention is chump change. These are multi-billion dollar businesses. He's not the highest paid, probably not in the top 4 (Scioscia, Maddon, Dusty, Bochy).

It's fine for NY to have lofty expectations but that doesn't mean they aren't making a mistake they will regret.
   90. JC in DC Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5563061)
I don't really think this was about underperformance as much as about staleness. Joe's reputation is for being super-focused, intense, and analytic. These are good skills! But they wear over time. That's what I meant by "fresh." It'll be interesting to see players' reactions to his firing, as they may indicate fondness (or its absence). I think Joe did a great job: he was graceful, intelligent, generally discreet (though I thought he sold out Sanchez a bit), and a pretty good game time manager.

He was also hyper intense, locked in rigidly to his notebook and his reliever patterns, and, as I said, seemed to pick on Sanchez, who's legitimately a fantastic hitting catcher with a great arm and bad catching skills. That last thing needs to be fixed, but let's focus on the young man's gifts a bit? I think 10 years was about all the team could ask for, and I see the rationale for going in another direction. Not winning the WS makes this easier, for sure, but underperformance is not the thing to criticize him for, I think.
   91. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5563066)
And the $4M a year you repeatedly mention is chump change. These are multi-billion dollar businesses. He's not the highest paid, probably not in the top 4 (Scioscia, Maddon, Dusty, Bochy).
Dusty made half that much. None of the others are at the end of their contracts.
   92. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5563069)
as I said, seemed to pick on Sanchez, who's legitimately a fantastic hitting catcher with a great arm and bad catching skills.


...but also has a history of being a spoiled malcontent since he signed as a youngster. There have been signs he has grown up but there also have been relapses. Time will tell. The same concerns were expressed over a young Cano who had a bad influence in Melky Cabrera. The Yanks choose to get rid of Melky and Cano went on to a greatness. Will Sanchez follow Cano's path or will he become another Jesus Montero?
   93. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5563075)
He's already way better than Montero, that's a foolish comparison. Why if you weren't such a racist you would have called him the next David Parrish! SHAME! SHAME!
   94. winnipegwhip Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5563080)
He's already way better than Montero, that's a foolish comparison. Why if you weren't such a racist you would have called him the next David Parrish! SHAME! SHAME!


Wow?
   95. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5563081)
90

who's legitimately a fantastic hitting catcher with a great arm and bad catching skills.


Paging Mr. Piazza...
   96. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5563097)
are you this nakedly elitist in real life, or is it a secret side that you air out in anonymity over the internet?


even more so in IRL. Like pants off streaking naked.
   97. Lassus Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5563108)
Paging Mr. Piazza...

Piazza could actually catch throws home. He had a bad arm.
   98. Tim D Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5563115)
"None of the others are at the end of their contracts."

Whatever, the Yankees probably pay $2M for meal money for a road trip.
   99. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 26, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5563116)
97

So strike that; reverse it.
   100. dog poop god Posted: October 26, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5563169)
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