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Thursday, September 22, 2011

Joe Posnanski: Moneyball and the Ballad of Bill James

Da, dun…dun, dun, dun, dun. You walk into the post-movie party room. And you go watch the numbers geek

The movie did not suck, not at all; that’s the wrong word, and that’s a story for tomorrow. The story for today is how we even got here. It is a story about a man who is not really in the movie. No actor plays him. He’s mentioned in the movie here and there, but only for a few seconds. Still, without him, there is no Moneyball. There is no sabermetrics, at least not under that name. Certainly people would still be looking for objective knowledge in baseball — people were looking long before Bill James and they will be looking long after.

But without the life’s work of Bill James, they sure as heck would not have made a movie out of it.

* * *

What would a formula about Bill James’ career look like? I’ve thought quite a lot about this and finally came up with one:

(Cu * D) / (CoW) = Bill James.

What does that mean? Well, first: What do you think it could mean? See, Bill James believes that baseball statistics and baseball formulas should tell stories on their own. Sometimes he will be at a ballgame, and they will flash some pitiful statistic up there, something like “John Johnson has hit in six of his last nine games,” or, “Lefties hit .268 off Will Wilson in July.” And it will drive him mad. Who cares? Tells you nothing. Fills the imagination with blackness.

Repoz Posted: September 22, 2011 at 03:13 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: books, history, media, sabermetrics

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   1. Shock Posted: September 22, 2011 at 04:30 AM (#3932848)
What would a formula about Bill James’ career look like? I’ve thought quite a lot about this...


LOL. I love you, Joe.
   2. Rusty Priske Posted: September 22, 2011 at 12:23 PM (#3932907)
He is the best WRITER about baseball going to day.

If what youa re looking for is hard analysis, there are probably others, but if you are looking for someone who elevates a mere article into a piece of written art, Joe is the guy.
   3. bunyon Posted: September 22, 2011 at 12:47 PM (#3932915)
We really need a MST3K type show with an added Bill James cartoon over the movie.
   4. villageidiom Posted: September 22, 2011 at 12:57 PM (#3932926)
Take one question in particular: Do great and exciting pitchers like Nolan Ryan draw more fans than others? Why that question? Who really cares? But I think that question was a particular breakthrough for Bill James because it seemed so obvious (OF COURSE Nolan Ryan outdrew other pitchers) and it was relatively easy to answer.... And what he found was: No. Nolan Ryan absolutely did not draw more fans than other pitchers.
For the record, at the end of his career, Nolan Ryan most certainly outdrew other pitchers, even after you control for the effect on attendance of opponent, day of week, month of year, etc. For his career, no, and at his peak, still no; but at the end, yes.
   5. fra paolo Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:06 PM (#3932936)
The White Sox — led by an assistant GM named Dave Dombrowski — made the point that Trout was clearly not in good shape after the 1981 strike, and all you had to do was look at his record in 1980 to see that he had been disappointing the year before. The Hendricks brothers then pulled out that guy named Bill James... Trout won the money.

I've never thought of Dombrowski as a GM influenced by Sabermetrics. I wonder if he bears a grudge, or if he just sticks with the methods he 'grew up' with.
   6. Greg (U)K Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:18 PM (#3932947)
I've never thought of Dombrowski as a GM influenced by Sabermetrics. I wonder if he bears a grudge, or if he just sticks with the methods he 'grew up' with.

He's also been fairly successful, so he might just be sticking with what has worked for him.
   7. fra paolo Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:39 PM (#3932980)
[Dombrowski]'s also been fairly successful, so he might just be sticking with what has worked for him.

At the start of this year, I was thinking he was overrated. He basically does well when he has a lot of money to take care of his many mistakes. In the time he's been GM, he has ended up with fewer division titles than Terry Ryan, for example. And Ryan accumulated his titles over a much shorter time-span. OTOH — if you give him 2003, which I'm not sure I would — he's got three more league pennants and two more rings than Ryan.

Dombrowski's done a great job this year, but some of that is down to the surprisingly poor seasons from the White Sox and the Twins. But, like Napoleon said...
   8. AndrewJ Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:42 PM (#3932986)
We really need a MST3K type show with an added Bill James cartoon over the movie.

The growth of MST3K is surprisingly similar to James' popularity in the early 1980s in its intensity.
   9. JE Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:51 PM (#3933003)
He's also been fairly successful, so he might just be sticking with what has worked for him.

Agreed, although his Achilles Heel may be his tendency to give big contracts to free agent relief pitchers.
   10. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: September 22, 2011 at 01:55 PM (#3933005)
I don't get songs stuck in my head too often, but random lines in conversation or in print trigger me to sing in my head ALL THE TIME. My wife gets frustrated when I don't pay attention to her every syllable, so recently I've had to start singing out loud to let her know that she's triggered another one, and that I couldn't pay full attention if I wanted to (apologies to those who didn't RTFA and are wondering what the hell I'm talking about).
   11. Greg (U)K Posted: September 22, 2011 at 02:05 PM (#3933014)
I have the twin curse of getting things stuck in my head (usually lines from movies or TV shows) and having a terrible memory.

So I'll walk around all day asking friends and family, "does an old Jewish guy singing 'I never promised you a rose garden' mean anything to you?"
   12. zachtoma Posted: September 22, 2011 at 02:52 PM (#3933066)
For the record, at the end of his career, Nolan Ryan most certainly outdrew other pitchers, even after you control for the effect on attendance of opponent, day of week, month of year, etc. For his career, no, and at his peak, still no; but at the end, yes.


I think this is untrue now as well. When I lived in the Bay Area, it was way harder to get a cheap ticket to a Lincecum game than any other.
   13. Mike Webber Posted: September 22, 2011 at 03:46 PM (#3933106)
I think this is untrue now as well. When I lived in the Bay Area, it was way harder to get a cheap ticket to a Lincecum game than any other.


If this is true, what would cause it? It's not like knowing who the day's starting pitcher is much more common now than in the 1970's. I guess it is possible that knowing the likely starting pitcher 5 days from now is easier than it was, but not much right? With attendance so high relative to the 1970's, the ability to get a seat on short notice is harder.

It could be that marketing for MLB now is more focused on the star of the other team, ala the NBA - "Come see Tim Lincecum and Giants."

Anyone have any ideas?
   14. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 22, 2011 at 04:03 PM (#3933117)
It could be that marketing for MLB now is more focused on the star of the other team, ala the NBA - "Come see Tim Lincecum and Giants."

I see "Jeter and the Yankees", "Ortiz and the Red Sox", "Longoria and the Rays", etc. for a lot of the Blue Jays game advertisements. I don't think I've seen one for the opposing pitchers.

They do, however, advertise Romero and Morrow starts more than any other pitcher on the roster.
   15. The DA Baracus Hypothesis Posted: September 22, 2011 at 04:39 PM (#3933145)
I think this is untrue now as well. When I lived in the Bay Area, it was way harder to get a cheap ticket to a Lincecum game than any other.


Well, you're talking about getting a cheap ticket, which includes resales. The original point was about getting a ticket at all.
   16. cardsfanboy Posted: September 22, 2011 at 05:29 PM (#3933181)
Well, you're talking about getting a cheap ticket, which includes resales. The original point was about getting a ticket at all.


exactly, the original point was from the viewpoint of the owner of the team, who doesn't care if secondary sales of the ticket go up in value based upon who's pitching, all he cares about is the final attendance total.
   17. The Gurus DO NOT BourbonSamurai Posted: September 22, 2011 at 05:29 PM (#3933182)
It's not like knowing who the day's starting pitcher is much more common now than in the 1970's.


Sure it is. You just look it up on the internet, no matter where you are. You don't have to worry about whether or not you saved the sports section or anything like that.

You can make a split second decision at 4 pm that maybe you want to go to the game if Lincecum is pitching, check your phone, find out he is, and buy the ticket.
   18. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: September 22, 2011 at 05:34 PM (#3933186)
He's also been fairly successful, so he might just be sticking with what has worked for him.


My guess would be that he's adapted as all successful businesspeople have to do. I'm sure he has a core of beliefs and things he tries to do but I'm sure that he at least pays attention to some of the new stat stuff (or pays someone to do that for him) and has the ability to integrate the information into his decision making process.

One of the things I always chuckle at is when critics of Beane say "see, he started drafting high schoolers!" Smart people ALWAYS change what they do, it's impossible to succeed over any length of time without adapting to your changing business environment.

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