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A 160 OPS+ from a 3B isn't a winning performance? Maybe one reason the Yankees never won a World Series is that Torre was spending his time trying to improve the performance of someone who didn't need it while ignoring those that did.
My favorite part of the link:
The 477-page tell-all, which The Post purchased from a city bookstore last week,
That is some investigative journalism there.
EDITOR: Go to the Borders on Ninth and buy this book. In about seven days, we’ll want a snarky summary for the newspaper.
CUB REPORTER: *adjusts fedora, gets press credential together, goes shopping*
Well, maybe the reporter bought a reviewer's copy from the Strand. So, that there is investigative reporting.
"Hello, I'm Brown from the Sun"
Also - That rag is junk; similarly, I would tell people not to click on a National Enquirer link, though the subject may be tantalizing - the Enquirer is a better paper, probably.
Also, it's the free agency era. One of these players may end up on the Dodgers.
Maybe they should've waited for the Kitty Kelly unauthorized bio story, and put it on page 1?
And don't you work for f*cking ESPN??? ESPN???
Torre had Big Stein and the Tampa Mafia crap on his head for years, he's getting even.
More evidence of the underlying vulgarity in YANKEE UNIVERSE!!!.
Awesome stuff.
yeah, something here reaaaaally doesn't pass the smell test. Torre knows that his success comes from his "player's manager" credentials. Wouldn't ######## about ARod like this really jeopardize how his current players view him? I think Torre is smarter than that, and that what's really in the book is not nearly this heated.
Actually, knowing Torre, if the book is 477 pages, 475 of them are Bob Gibson anecdotes.
I have an "enemies list" of sites I won't go to, periodicals I don't read, and other media that I just don't consume.
Nah. If he only trashes A-rod, he'll get a pass on this. Mostly because nobody likes A-rod.
Comparing the integrity and accuracy of ESPN to the NY POST is ridiculous. Please.
To each his own. To me, this simply shrieks behemothic closed-mindedness. From the highest mountain.
Does this "enemies list" include ESPN?
Not anymore!
beats "I saw OJ in his Bronc" by car detailer who witnessed OJ murders (cover only)
"Duke Sucks" by former Duke lacrosse coach (1/10th page)
"MacRoids followed by sequel "ArsRoids" by J. Canseco (double cover)
"ButtCrackers" by Joe the Plumber (telegraphed mental thought)
how the heck can spread it over a freakin 477...
Nope. I've dismissed the following as unreliable infoporn, capable of holding my interest but not worth depending on for accuracy:
The NY Post
NY Newsday
anything on E!
Supermarket tabloids
The various "Entertainment Tonight"-like syndicated nightly shows
Anything on FOX news
The Post has far more integrity, and is equal in accuracy. Every single journalistic
scandal I can think of involves typical MSM, Democrat leaning entities, BTW:
-Rathergate
-11 year old junkie story in the WAPO (Pulizter)
-exploding trucks on Dateline NBC
-Jason Blair
-Steven Glass
-Operation Tailwind on CNN
-Kitty Kelly on Page 1 of the NYT
-Reuters Fauxtography
-Several major news organizations exchange non-agressive reporting for the privilege of a
Baghdad bureau under the Iraqi Baathist Govt.
-the NYT inexplicably printing the name of the victim in the William Kennedy Smith rape case
That was OTTOMH...quick Lassus, name 10 examples of the NY Post intentionally getting the story wrong, either by
the editors or a reporter.
Just because it comes out of your professor's mouth, that don't mean its real.
the author struck this post
A-Rod makes too much money to be "only" a 160+ OPS guy.
A-Rod plays lousy defense. Just ask Mussina.
A-Rod has only negative intangibles.
A-Rod is not Derek Jeter or Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams or Jorge Posada.
Derek Jeter is not as good a player as A-Rod. This is a real problem for Yankee fans and management.
Yankees won four World Series with Jeter and no A-Rod. And none with A-Rod.
A-Rod knocked the ball out of Mientkiewicz's glove. Bad, very bad. Especially when you get called out. But decapitating a catcher is OK. And sliding 10 feet off the base path to take out a second baseman or shortstop is fine.
A-Rod is married and dates married women. Jeter is single and dates single women.
Of course, as noted, it is hard to picture Torre blasting a player like this, so we'll see.
Could this be explained as, when a media outlet such as CBS or the Post ##### up, it's a big deal - but when FOX or the Weekly Standard botches a story, it's expected?
That's actually a good reason to like Jeter more than A-rod.
Of course. Jeter handles that element of his life like George Clooney does--stays single, scores with beautiful often famous women, and except for the herpes rumors, avoids embarrassment. It is part of the Jeter mystique and is one of many reasons Clooney is generally well-liked by the media and public. Celebs like that who get along with media and are seen as being nice to fans become even bigger icons.
Rodriguez, OTOH, is linked to she-males, had a messy divorce, and is now hooked up with a 50 year-old Madonna. I have also always thought that one reason some people have issues with Rodriguez is that they think he is gay/bisexual/closeted/unmanly (hence the choking in the clutch) and this "single white female obsession with Jeter" line in this link is yet another example.
He has been in NY for 5 years now and only has 2 MVP awards to show for it.
That's less than half!!!
Meh. The FOX thing is overblown.
90% of news stories don't have a Republican/Democrat angle. On these stories, FOX is no worse (also no better) than MSNBC, CNN, et al.
On the other 10%, FOX is reliably Republican-slanted. This is highly useful. If you see a story on FOX that reflects badly on Republicans, you can be pretty sure there's more there than just smoke. A test which also works with, e.g., the Moonie Times. Not that there isn't an exact reverse version of this test for various other media outlets ...
The Clooney thing is actually a front.
Torre was one of the highest-paid managers in the game for years. I can't imagine he really needs the couple of hundred thousand extra dollars so badly that he'd throw the Yankees under the bus solely for that reason. Wounded pride strikes me as a much more plausible explanation.
Maybe. But it seems to be working well.
shrug
maybe he gave his money to madoff, who knows
but so much for classy. guess first the book, then that screenplay he talk about in his commercial. he's SOOOOO there
From the sounds of it, the only player he's crapped on is ARod, who AFAICT is not exactly loved by other players around baseball. Nor is anything that's been said so far anything that wasn't more or less public knowledge. Seems like he's really just going after ownership and upper management.
Which is not going to make Frank McCourt's happy. Torre and McCourt has a good relationship, but if anything, McCourt hates bad PR. And this is bad PR, however indirectly it is on the Dodgers.
At least active and recently retired players defend Manny.
FWIW, the article says that he rips several players for being prima donnas.
Lofton also didn't get along with him, IIRC.
is that even legal?
A-Rod is not Derek Jeter or Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams or Jorge Posada.
yeah--I wonder if Torre is going to give credence to this "True Yankee/Not True Yankee" horseshit, as a way to absolve himself from no rings since 00
("Hey what was I s'posed to do? They stuck me with ARod")
Oh brother. Really?
I'm glad you took a moment to comment on the Post vs. ESPN in your little screed, which was what I actually talking about.
The most surprising thing to me is how I never heard of this book before it hit the stores. Who was marketing it?
I remember reading in one of Bill James's books about how famously ugly Torre was considered during his playing days. It was a running joke among most of his peers, so the line definitely does match the day's sentiment. In his old age, he's become distinguished looking in a Paul Sorvino way. But I think it's because age caught up with that mug.
I'm too lazy to look it up, but there were a few articles last year about how Verducci was working with Torre on a tell-all book. That's why he lost his job doing the Hot Stove show with YES.
"it's kind of hard to describe--she kinda looked like Joe Torre with tits"
Yeah, and I think it was in Ball Four that Bouton said players in that era would say that an unattractive woman looked like "Joe Torre with tits."
This is NOTABLE garbage, not even stories about crap nobody - including them - cares about.
Hell, I could just reprint the whole "Criticisms" section of the Wiki article:
Paul Sorvino, incidentally, played Joe Torre in a made-for-TV movie.
Mira doesn't look anything like Joe Torre.
* On July 4, 2004, the Post ran an article claiming to have learned exclusively that Senator John Kerry, the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee-in-waiting, had selected former House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt to be the Party's Vice Presidential nominee. The article, under the headline "KERRY'S CHOICE," ran without a byline.[36] The next day, the Post had to print a new story, "KERRY'S REAL CHOICE", reporting Kerry's actual selection of Senator John Edwards of North Carolina as his running mate.
* On April 23, 2008, the "Post" ran a story on Page 6 stating that there was a sex tape about to surface featuring actor/stuntman Bam Margera and Lindsey Hughes, fiancée of radio personality Gregg "Opie" Hughes, co-host of the Opie and Anthony Show. It also stated that Gregg Hughes was planning on taking legal action to prevent the tape from running on the Internet. Hughes himself said adamantly that there was no sex tape and he had never planned on taking any legal action against the phantom tape from surfacing. Also, on April 24, Margera confirmed during a phone-in to the Opie and Anthony Show that there was no sex tape and he had never met Opie's fiancée in his life. The Post printed a full retraction on May 5, 2008, after it was revealed that Chaunce Hayden of Steppin' Out magazine had supplied false information about the existence of the tape.
These are examples of the Post being wrong, not maliciously making things up ala Rathergate. Newspapers are wrong almost daily, that's what that correction thing is all about.
* On April 21, 2006, several Asian-American advocacy groups protested the use of the headline "Wok This Way" for a Post article about President Bush's meeting with the president of the People's Republic of China.[37]
* On December 7, 2006 the Post doctored a front-page photo to depict the co-chairmen of the Iraq Study Group, James Baker and Lee Hamilton, in primate fur, under the headline "SURRENDER MONKEYS", inspired by a once used line from The Simpsons.
Examples of the Post ruffling feathers with un=PC headlines. Again, insensitive at worst, funny at best but not a lack of journalisitc integrity.
* On September 27, 2006 the Post published an article called "Powder Puff Spooks Keith" that made fun of Countdown host Keith Olbermann receiving an anthrax threat from an unknown terrorist.[38] By reporting on the incident, the Post have actually broken the general Federal Bureau of Investigation protocol of not disclosing the event which could hamper their investigation. Keith Olbermann had some harsh words for the Post on his show after this.
Pales in comparison to the NYT blowing two clandestine anti-terror operations after being asked not to.
Post versus ESPN? I dunno but the Post versus MSM? The Post has easily displayed more integrity an=d anccuracy than CNN,NYT,MSNBC etc.
well, one of us owes the other one something--I forget the etiquette
here's the Worldwide Leader's take:
The classic:
Headless Man Found in Topless Bar
The first day of bombings for the Afghan campaign in 2001:
Talibam!
The second day:
Kabulseye!
Then there are the smaller headlines such as the one tucked on page 9 one day a few years ago that had to do with Viagra's makers being exonerated in a lawsuit that charged their drug was causing heart attacks:
Viagra Not Responsible for Stiffs
There are so many more. This is why the NY Post is a valuable newspaper for the everyday New Yorker. The headlines sometimes get me through the difficult mornings.
The book is not a first-person tell-all, but rather, a third-person narrative by Verducci, who interviewed dozens of players and team personnel while researching for the book, the source said.
Keep your hands clean. Let your minion do the dirty deeds.
-Public Enemy
I doubt he does this, but if he does, it'd be pretty foolish. Torre was making calls and publicly commenting on wanting Albert Belle over Bernie IIRC.
Again, and this is news?
Sheffield and Lofton have been moved around a ton, considering what excellent players they are, and both have questionable reputations. And it's easy to see how playing time issues would figure with Womack and Lofton having beefs with the manager.
Still, it's an interesting group of players, and it makes you reconsider what Sheffield said about Torre.
I'm not sure what you're saying. I was only responding to posts saying that he was only ripping ARod. Also, if Torre is ripping ex-players, it's news to me. Neither he, nor most other managers, have done that very often. He was pretty bad about backing up ARod, IMHO.
Well, I'll side with A-Rod on this one. I hate bitter old men.
("Hey what was I s'posed to do? They stuck me with ARod")
ARod is the universal scapegoat.
...and he really is to blame.
..and he really is to blame.
well, that makes it easy to keep track of
Make note to self, Weekly Journalist is on the "Bad List"............
Absolutely true.
The classic:
Headless Man Found in Topless Bar
And how many people remember that the popular term for Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) originated in this equally classic Post headline, the day after Reagan introduced it in an address to the nation:
STAR WARS PLAN TO ZAP RED NUKES
Headless Man Found in Topless Bar
to quote Crash Davis : "I hate it when poeple get the
words wrong
(.."and women don't get woolly--they get weary")
I think that at worst, what the network was guilty of was not adequately verifying authenticity, not "maliciously making things up."
I also think that the greatest likelihood is that those documents were authentic. Modern day word processors and fonts intentionally mimic older typewritten styles.
Don't be so naive. Everyone knows that Rather personally typed up those fake documents (with accurate content) to bring down Bush.
It's a character flaw, I know.
Oh, and Derek Jeter should never have written this book.
For the record, I don't doubt that the guy was probably lazy and slack when it came to fulfilling his TANG duties. But jesus, the Rathergate documents are transparent fakes, perfectly reproduceable in MS Word (down to the micron w/r/t to spacing) in a way that no other document from that era or military base even remotely is (no other documents from that base/era/author look anything like the Rathergate docs), with anachronisms and wildly unlikely font irregularities (the raised "th," the kerning) to boot.
People who have looked into the matter and still think the Rathergate documents are authentic or even "likely" authentic are on the same level of truth/insanity as 9/11 conspiracists, fake-moon-landing cranks, or Holocaust deniers. There really is no middle ground here. Again: Bush probably was an irresponsible jackass with respect to his duties. He probably did the things he was accused of doing. But that doesn't make those docs anything other that malicious forgeries.
It happened to Margaret Hamilton and Ernest Borgnine, too. Age can do that to the beauty disadvantaged.
BTW, I find it funny how the New York Post is viewed now, when it was considered a "communist" rag decades ago. :-)
exactly--CBS and Rather were set up (very poorly, I might add) and were too stupid to realize it--that's inexcusable
It happened to Margaret Hamilton
"..and her little dog, TOO"
1) You know absolutely nothing about me, beyond that I believe/suspect the documents to be authentic. Your conclusion that I must be blinded by partisanship might reveal more about you than you know about me.
2) http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm
This behavior is in keeping with that. It's disingenuous to even hint otherwise.
I wasn't "hinting" anything beyond the fact that I doubt many people know me from 100 other posters, I'm not a big presence on the site.
"This behavior"? Who are you, my father?
The narrative that emerges as the most prominent in something as politically charged as this is not always the accurate one.
Giving CBS credit for merely being stupid is overly generous. The obviously fake documents fit their narrative so they ran with it out of willful blindness. Screw integrity, we've got an election to influence!
None of the things the Post is accused of here was as bad as running a story based on forged documents and sticking by their story way past the sell-by date.
Well it was very far left through the 60's and 70's. Now, it's pretty far right, esp. for NYC.
well, yes-- and willful stupidity--if they thought they weren't going to get called out for it--as you said "obviously fake"
I know --let's start a double-level conspiracy theory: CBS was set up by the right wing, and they also planted operatives at CBS to ensure that this obviously fake horseshit would get on the air, so they would be called out for it later
I see a treatment already--is Leonardo DeCaprio available?
Kind of low for Torre to stoop to this level, IMO.
I wonder if Torre admits that he had ARod carry the water for the team's failures in the postseason series against Detroit by batting him 8th -- shamelessly taking advantage of the media's hack job on ARod by scapegoating him for personal gain.
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