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Sunday, January 25, 2009

Joe Torre’s tell-all blasts A-Rod, Cashman, the Boss (RR)

From the desk of Howie Menckel comes…

Scorned skipper Joe Torre is blasting the Yankees - calling many of his former players prima donnas, confessing he stopped trusting the powers that be years before he left the team and charging that general manager Brian Cashman betrayed him.

In an explosive new book called “The Yankee Years,” Torre gets most personal in his attacks against Alex Rodriguez, who he says was called “A-Fraud” by his teammates after he developed a “Single White Female”-like obsession with team captain Derek Jeter and asked for a personal clubhouse assistant to run errands for him.

Torre, who left the Yankees and became manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers after the 2007 season, says Cashman never told the brass that the manager wanted a two-year deal and instead remained silent during Torre’s tense final sitdown with the bosses.

The book also reveals that, during spring training in 1999, team doctors revealed to owner George Steinbrenner that Torre had prostate cancer - even before informing the manager himself.

Repoz Posted: January 25, 2009 at 02:22 PM | 104 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

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   1. Dan The Mediocre Posted: January 25, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3059908)
Torre spent years trying to bring out a winning performance from A-Rod, the highest-paid player in baseball, which from all reported accounts included a lot of hand-holding and battling the insecurities and demons Rodriguez struggles with.



A 160 OPS+ from a 3B isn't a winning performance? Maybe one reason the Yankees never won a World Series is that Torre was spending his time trying to improve the performance of someone who didn't need it while ignoring those that did.
   2. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3059911)
It's the Post, so isn't worth the effort of clicking or reading. But,

My favorite part of the link:

The 477-page tell-all, which The Post purchased from a city bookstore last week,

That is some investigative journalism there.

EDITOR: Go to the Borders on Ninth and buy this book. In about seven days, we’ll want a snarky summary for the newspaper.

CUB REPORTER: *adjusts fedora, gets press credential together, goes shopping*
   3. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:12 PM (#3059914)
It's the Post, so isn't worth the effort of clicking or reading.
All the good stuff is in the pull quote here, but I have no idea why this isn't worth reading. That stuff is hilarious.
   4. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:14 PM (#3059915)
The content may be worth reading, but the Post's take on it isn't. That rag is junk; similarly, I would tell people not to click on a National Enquirer link, though the subject may be tantalizing.
   5. rfloh Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3059924)

That is some investigative journalism there.

EDITOR: Go to the Borders on Ninth and buy this book. In about seven days, we’ll want a snarky summary for the newspaper.

CUB REPORTER: *adjusts fedora, gets press credential together, goes shopping*


Well, maybe the reporter bought a reviewer's copy from the Strand. So, that there is investigative reporting.
   6. Matt Waters Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3059928)
Joe Torre would have been fired way before 2007 if it weren’t for A-Rod’s regular season performances. What an absolute joke.
   7. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3059929)
CUB REPORTER: *adjusts fedora, gets press credential together, goes shopping*

"Hello, I'm Brown from the Sun"
   8. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 25, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3059930)
Looks like Joe really has gone Hollywood. So much for quiet dignity.
   9. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 04:17 PM (#3059939)
I'm surprised Joe would write all that while still an active manager, and one with (presumably) hopes to manage for a few years yet. It doesn't seem like the best plan to keep the trust of your current players, writing a book where you crap all over ones you have managed in the very recent past.
   10. Lassus Posted: January 25, 2009 at 04:21 PM (#3059941)
I know all the "baseball-as-it's-supposed-to-be-played" people love Torre, but if the reporting of what is written is accurate, it seems to betray an appalling lack of class.

Also - That rag is junk; similarly, I would tell people not to click on a National Enquirer link, though the subject may be tantalizing - the Enquirer is a better paper, probably.
   11. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 04:53 PM (#3059955)
writing a book where you crap all over ones you have managed in the very recent past.


Also, it's the free agency era. One of these players may end up on the Dodgers.
   12. tfbg9 Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:38 PM (#3059971)
It's the Post, so isn't worth the effort of clicking or reading.


Maybe they should've waited for the Kitty Kelly unauthorized bio story, and put it on page 1?
And don't you work for f*cking ESPN??? ESPN???

Torre had Big Stein and the Tampa Mafia crap on his head for years, he's getting even.
More evidence of the underlying vulgarity in YANKEE UNIVERSE!!!.

Awesome stuff.
   13. aleskel Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:41 PM (#3059973)
I know all the "baseball-as-it's-supposed-to-be-played" people love Torre, but if the reporting of what is written is accurate, it seems to betray an appalling lack of class.

yeah, something here reaaaaally doesn't pass the smell test. Torre knows that his success comes from his "player's manager" credentials. Wouldn't ######## about ARod like this really jeopardize how his current players view him? I think Torre is smarter than that, and that what's really in the book is not nearly this heated.

Actually, knowing Torre, if the book is 477 pages, 475 of them are Bob Gibson anecdotes.
   14. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:44 PM (#3059975)
Doesn't mean I don't have journalistic standards. To use an easy example, I objected - loudly here, but apparently too quietly in the company - to the announcing of Steve Bartman's name, and to the Barry Bonds reality show a few years ago.

I have an "enemies list" of sites I won't go to, periodicals I don't read, and other media that I just don't consume.
   15. tfbg9 Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3059978)
Wouldn't ######## about ARod like this really jeopardize how his current players view him?


Nah. If he only trashes A-rod, he'll get a pass on this. Mostly because nobody likes A-rod.
   16. Lassus Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3059980)
And don't you work for f*cking ESPN??? ESPN???

Comparing the integrity and accuracy of ESPN to the NY POST is ridiculous. Please.
   17. tfbg9 Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:55 PM (#3059982)
I have an of sites I won't go to, periodicals I don't read, and other media that I just don't consume.


To each his own. To me, this simply shrieks behemothic closed-mindedness. From the highest mountain.

Does this "enemies list" include ESPN?
   18. Harold Posted: January 25, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3059983)
Also, it's the free agency era. One of these players may end up on the Dodgers.

Not anymore!
   19. calhounite Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3059984)
477 pages? that's pretty good.

beats "I saw OJ in his Bronc" by car detailer who witnessed OJ murders (cover only)
"Duke Sucks" by former Duke lacrosse coach (1/10th page)
"MacRoids followed by sequel "ArsRoids" by J. Canseco (double cover)
"ButtCrackers" by Joe the Plumber (telegraphed mental thought)

how the heck can spread it over a freakin 477...
   20. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:11 PM (#3059987)
Does this "enemies list" include ESPN?


Nope. I've dismissed the following as unreliable infoporn, capable of holding my interest but not worth depending on for accuracy:

The NY Post
NY Newsday
anything on E!
Supermarket tabloids
The various "Entertainment Tonight"-like syndicated nightly shows
Anything on FOX news
   21. tfbg9 Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:12 PM (#3059988)
Comparing the integrity and accuracy of ESPN to the NY POST is ridiculous. Please.


The Post has far more integrity, and is equal in accuracy. Every single journalistic
scandal I can think of involves typical MSM, Democrat leaning entities, BTW:

-Rathergate
-11 year old junkie story in the WAPO (Pulizter)
-exploding trucks on Dateline NBC
-Jason Blair
-Steven Glass
-Operation Tailwind on CNN
-Kitty Kelly on Page 1 of the NYT
-Reuters Fauxtography
-Several major news organizations exchange non-agressive reporting for the privilege of a
Baghdad bureau under the Iraqi Baathist Govt.
-the NYT inexplicably printing the name of the victim in the William Kennedy Smith rape case

That was OTTOMH...quick Lassus, name 10 examples of the NY Post intentionally getting the story wrong, either by
the editors or a reporter.

Just because it comes out of your professor's mouth, that don't mean its real.
   22. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:18 PM (#3059989)
*EDIT*

the author struck this post
   23. Chris in Wicker Park Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:30 PM (#3059990)
Dick Gephardt?
   24. kwarren Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:46 PM (#3059994)
A 160 OPS+ from a 3B isn't a winning performance? Maybe one reason the Yankees never won a World Series is that Torre was spending his time trying to improve the performance of someone who didn't need it while ignoring those that did.

A-Rod makes too much money to be "only" a 160+ OPS guy.

A-Rod plays lousy defense. Just ask Mussina.

A-Rod has only negative intangibles.

A-Rod is not Derek Jeter or Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams or Jorge Posada.

Derek Jeter is not as good a player as A-Rod. This is a real problem for Yankee fans and management.

Yankees won four World Series with Jeter and no A-Rod. And none with A-Rod.

A-Rod knocked the ball out of Mientkiewicz's glove. Bad, very bad. Especially when you get called out. But decapitating a catcher is OK. And sliding 10 feet off the base path to take out a second baseman or shortstop is fine.

A-Rod is married and dates married women. Jeter is single and dates single women.
   25. robinred Posted: January 25, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3059999)
I know the answer is "the money" but on another level I still don't get why Rodriguez wanted to stay in New York.

Of course, as noted, it is hard to picture Torre blasting a player like this, so we'll see.
   26. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:00 PM (#3060001)
Every single journalistic scandal I can think of involves typical MSM, Democrat leaning entities

Could this be explained as, when a media outlet such as CBS or the Post ##### up, it's a big deal - but when FOX or the Weekly Standard botches a story, it's expected?
   27. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:01 PM (#3060003)
A-Rod is married and dates married women. Jeter is single and dates single women.

That's actually a good reason to like Jeter more than A-rod.
   28. robinred Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:09 PM (#3060005)
That's actually a good reason to like Jeter more than A-rod
.

Of course. Jeter handles that element of his life like George Clooney does--stays single, scores with beautiful often famous women, and except for the herpes rumors, avoids embarrassment. It is part of the Jeter mystique and is one of many reasons Clooney is generally well-liked by the media and public. Celebs like that who get along with media and are seen as being nice to fans become even bigger icons.

Rodriguez, OTOH, is linked to she-males, had a messy divorce, and is now hooked up with a 50 year-old Madonna. I have also always thought that one reason some people have issues with Rodriguez is that they think he is gay/bisexual/closeted/unmanly (hence the choking in the clutch) and this "single white female obsession with Jeter" line in this link is yet another example.
   29. Best Regards, Larry M. Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3060009)
Torre knows that Cashman was his boss, not his agent, right?
   30. jyjjy Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3060010)
A 160 OPS+ from a 3B isn't a winning performance?

He has been in NY for 5 years now and only has 2 MVP awards to show for it.
That's less than half!!!
   31. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:35 PM (#3060013)
Could this be explained as, when a media outlet such as CBS or the Post ##### up, it's a big deal - but when FOX or the Weekly Standard botches a story, it's expected?

Meh. The FOX thing is overblown.

90% of news stories don't have a Republican/Democrat angle. On these stories, FOX is no worse (also no better) than MSNBC, CNN, et al.

On the other 10%, FOX is reliably Republican-slanted. This is highly useful. If you see a story on FOX that reflects badly on Republicans, you can be pretty sure there's more there than just smoke. A test which also works with, e.g., the Moonie Times. Not that there isn't an exact reverse version of this test for various other media outlets ...
   32. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3060017)
Jeter handles that element of his life like George Clooney does--stays single, scores with beautiful often famous women

The Clooney thing is actually a front.
   33. bunyon Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3060018)
Geez, I've always liked Torre. He's far from perfect but this sort of tell-all stinks. Tell-alls, in general, stink. I suppose "the money" is the answer to why he'd write this, too, but geez.
   34. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: January 25, 2009 at 07:55 PM (#3060021)
I suppose "the money" is the answer to why he'd write this, too, but geez.

Torre was one of the highest-paid managers in the game for years. I can't imagine he really needs the couple of hundred thousand extra dollars so badly that he'd throw the Yankees under the bus solely for that reason. Wounded pride strikes me as a much more plausible explanation.
   35. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:04 PM (#3060025)
If he went after Steinbrenner, it also has to give Colletti pause. "Maybe I'm next!"
   36. Tripon Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:08 PM (#3060027)
Coletti's gone, and its not because Torre would be pushing him out of the door. Giving out contracts like candy to injured players like Schimdt will get him kicked out of the door.
   37. robinred Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:10 PM (#3060028)
The Clooney thing is actually a front.


Maybe. But it seems to be working well.
   38. base ball chick Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:12 PM (#3060029)
joe torre needs money???

shrug

maybe he gave his money to madoff, who knows

but so much for classy. guess first the book, then that screenplay he talk about in his commercial. he's SOOOOO there
   39. OCD SS Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:15 PM (#3060033)
I'm surprised Joe would write all that while still an active manager, and one with (presumably) hopes to manage for a few years yet. It doesn't seem like the best plan to keep the trust of your current players, writing a book where you crap all over ones you have managed in the very recent past.


From the sounds of it, the only player he's crapped on is ARod, who AFAICT is not exactly loved by other players around baseball. Nor is anything that's been said so far anything that wasn't more or less public knowledge. Seems like he's really just going after ownership and upper management.
   40. Tripon Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:22 PM (#3060035)
Seems like he's really just going after ownership and upper management.


Which is not going to make Frank McCourt's happy. Torre and McCourt has a good relationship, but if anything, McCourt hates bad PR. And this is bad PR, however indirectly it is on the Dodgers.
   41. RJ in TO Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3060043)
Has any active player ever spoken out to defend A-Rod in the press? I'm sure there must have been one at some point, but he's about as easy a target as there could be to rip on.
   42. Tripon Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3060055)

Has any active player ever spoken out to defend A-Rod in the press? I'm sure there must have been one at some point, but he's about as easy a target as there could be to rip on.


At least active and recently retired players defend Manny.
   43. Esoteric Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3060056)
This does seem remarkably tawdry coming from a guy supposedly famed for his low-key classiness like Joe Torre. But I will say that, if the story about Steinbrenner learning about Torre's colon cancer before Torre himself is true, then wow.
   44. bunyon Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:50 PM (#3060062)
A-Rod doesn't need money either. In fact, he needs it much less than Torre. So if "the money" is why he stayed in NY, then it's a perfectly valid reason for Torre to do this book. I'm sure wounded pride helps, of course.
   45. Darren Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:53 PM (#3060063)
It's funny to me that the book allegedly calls out ARod for both needing to learn how to play winning baseball and for being obsessed with Jeter. To me, it seems perfectly logical that if Arod were being told he wasn't a winning player that he would become obsessed with figuring out the Jeter thing.

From the sounds of it, the only player he's crapped on is ARod,


FWIW, the article says that he rips several players for being prima donnas.
   46. bebop Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3060065)
Maybe the Boss and Arod lack class but now we can add vindictive Saint Joe to the list.
   47. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3060066)
I'm not going to read the article in fullness, but I know that Joe had issues with Sheffield and Womack.
   48. aleskel Posted: January 25, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3060070)
I'm not going to read the article in fullness, but I know that Joe had issues with Sheffield and Womack.

Lofton also didn't get along with him, IIRC.
   49. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3060075)
The book also reveals that, during spring training in 1999, team doctors revealed to owner George Steinbrenner that Torre had prostate cancer - even before informing the manager himself.

is that even legal?

A-Rod is not Derek Jeter or Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams or Jorge Posada.

yeah--I wonder if Torre is going to give credence to this "True Yankee/Not True Yankee" horseshit, as a way to absolve himself from no rings since 00

("Hey what was I s'posed to do? They stuck me with ARod")
   50. Best Regards, Larry M. Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3060077)
is that even legal?
His contract likely mandated that the team have access to his medical records.
   51. Lassus Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3060080)
Just because it comes out of your professor's mouth, that don't mean its real.

Oh brother. Really?

I'm glad you took a moment to comment on the Post vs. ESPN in your little screed, which was what I actually talking about.
   52. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:24 PM (#3060083)
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Primer was around when Ball Four came out. I also wonder how Torre felt about that book.


The most surprising thing to me is how I never heard of this book before it hit the stores. Who was marketing it?
   53. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:26 PM (#3060084)
I've never heard of it either, which surprises me a bit.
   54. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:28 PM (#3060087)
Wasn't there a line about Torre specifically in Ball Four? "I'd include a picture of him in the book, but his face melts camera lenses" is how I think it read.
   55. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3060089)
"I'd include a picture of him in the book, but his face melts camera lenses" is how I think it read.


I remember reading in one of Bill James's books about how famously ugly Torre was considered during his playing days. It was a running joke among most of his peers, so the line definitely does match the day's sentiment. In his old age, he's become distinguished looking in a Paul Sorvino way. But I think it's because age caught up with that mug.

I've never heard of it either, which surprises me a bit.


I'm too lazy to look it up, but there were a few articles last year about how Verducci was working with Torre on a tell-all book. That's why he lost his job doing the Hot Stove show with YES.
   56. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3060090)
well, the reference to Torre started with one of the players trying to describe how ugly his "date" was:

"it's kind of hard to describe--she kinda looked like Joe Torre with tits"
   57. robinred Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3060091)
Wasn't there a line about Torre specifically in Ball Four? "I'd include a picture of him in the book, but his face melts camera lenses" is how I think it read.


Yeah, and I think it was in Ball Four that Bouton said players in that era would say that an unattractive woman looked like "Joe Torre with tits."
   58. TVerik Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:35 PM (#3060093)
*does the "coke referee motion" towards Pasta*
   59. Lassus Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:44 PM (#3060100)
Fine, tfbg9, I'll simply use my fabulous Wikipedia internet to match up your comprehensive list:

There have been numerous controversies surrounding the Post:

* In 1997 a national news story concerning Rebecca Sealfon's victory in the Scripps National Spelling Bee circulated. Sealfon was sponsored by the Daily News. The Post published a picture of her but altered the photograph to remove the name of the Daily News as printed on a placard she was wearing.[32]

* On November 8, 2000, the Post printed "BUSH WINS!" in a huge headline,[33] although the election remained in doubt because of the recount needed in Florida. Like the Post, many other newspapers around the country published a similar headline after the four major TV networks called the election for Bush.

* On March 10, 2004, the Post re-ran as a full-color page one photo,[34] a photo that had already been run three days earlier in black and white on page 9, showing the 24-story suicide plunge of a New York University student, who had since been identified as 19-year old Diana Chien, daughter of a prominent Silicon Valley, California businessman. Among criticisms levelled at the Post [35] was their having added a tightly-cropped inset photo of Chien, a former high school track athlete, depicting her in mid-jump from an athletic meet, giving the false impression that it was taken during her fatal act, despite the fact that she had fallen face up.

* On July 4, 2004, the Post ran an article claiming to have learned exclusively that Senator John Kerry, the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee-in-waiting, had selected former House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt to be the Party's Vice Presidential nominee. The article, under the headline "KERRY'S CHOICE," ran without a byline.[36] The next day, the Post had to print a new story, "KERRY'S REAL CHOICE", reporting Kerry's actual selection of Senator John Edwards of North Carolina as his running mate.

* On April 21, 2006, several Asian-American advocacy groups protested the use of the headline "Wok This Way" for a Post article about President Bush's meeting with the president of the People's Republic of China.[37]

* On September 27, 2006 the Post published an article called "Powder Puff Spooks Keith" that made fun of Countdown host Keith Olbermann receiving an anthrax threat from an unknown terrorist.[38] By reporting on the incident, the Post have actually broken the general Federal Bureau of Investigation protocol of not disclosing the event which could hamper their investigation. Keith Olbermann had some harsh words for the Post on his show after this.

* On December 7, 2006 the Post doctored a front-page photo to depict the co-chairmen of the Iraq Study Group, James Baker and Lee Hamilton, in primate fur, under the headline "SURRENDER MONKEYS", inspired by a once used line from The Simpsons.

* In certain editions of the February 14, 2007, newspaper, an article referring to Senator Hillary Clinton's support base for her 2008 presidential run referred to Senator Barack Obama as "Osama" (Bin Laden)

* On January 20, 2007, the New York Post received some criticism[42] for running a potentially misleading headline, "'Osama' Mud Flies at Obama", for a story that discussed rumors that Sen. Obama had been raised as a Muslim and concealed it. The story itself never mentioned the Saudi terrorist.

* On April 23, 2008, the "Post" ran a story on Page 6 stating that there was a sex tape about to surface featuring actor/stuntman Bam Margera and Lindsey Hughes, fiancée of radio personality Gregg "Opie" Hughes, co-host of the Opie and Anthony Show. It also stated that Gregg Hughes was planning on taking legal action to prevent the tape from running on the Internet. Hughes himself said adamantly that there was no sex tape and he had never planned on taking any legal action against the phantom tape from surfacing. Also, on April 24, Margera confirmed during a phone-in to the Opie and Anthony Show that there was no sex tape and he had never met Opie's fiancée in his life. The Post printed a full retraction on May 5, 2008, after it was revealed that Chaunce Hayden of Steppin' Out magazine had supplied false information about the existence of the tape.


This is NOTABLE garbage, not even stories about crap nobody - including them - cares about.

Hell, I could just reprint the whole "Criticisms" section of the Wiki article:

The New York Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch's ownership for what many consider its lurid headlines, sensationalism, blatant advocacy and conservative bias. In 1980, the Columbia Journalism Review asserted that "the New York Post is no longer merely a journalistic problem. It is a social problem--a force for evil."[28]

Perhaps the most serious allegation against the Post is that it is willing to contort its news coverage to suit the business needs of Murdoch, in particular that the paper has avoided reporting anything that is unflattering to the government of the People's Republic of China. Murdoch has invested heavily in satellite television in China and wants to maintain the favor of local media regulators.[29]

Ian Spiegelman, a former reporter for the paper's Page Six gossip column who had been fired by the paper in 2004 [30], said in a statement for a law suit against the paper that in 2001 he was ordered to kill an item on Page Six about a Chinese diplomat and a strip club because it would have "angered the Communist regime and endangered Murdoch’s broadcast privileges."

Critics say that the Post allows its editorial positions to shape its story selection and news coverage. But as the Post executive editor, Steven D. Cuozzo, sees it, it was the Post that "broke the elitist media stranglehold on the national agenda."

According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, the New York Post was rated the least credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).
   60. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:46 PM (#3060101)
I believe there is a section in Bouton's hugely mediocre follow-up to Ball Four about how Torre shouted at him about the book, and really hated it.

Paul Sorvino, incidentally, played Joe Torre in a made-for-TV movie.
   61. Morty Causa Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:57 PM (#3060107)
I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally is actually a very good followup. It isn't Ball Four, but it doesn't try to be. It's something different.
   62. Lassus Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:58 PM (#3060110)
Paul Sorvino, incidentally, played Joe Torre in a made-for-TV movie.

Mira doesn't look anything like Joe Torre.
   63. Brian Posted: January 25, 2009 at 09:59 PM (#3060111)
* On November 8, 2000, the Post printed "BUSH WINS!" in a huge headline,[33] although the election remained in doubt because of the recount needed in Florida. Like the Post, many other newspapers around the country published a similar headline after the four major TV networks called the election for Bush.

* On July 4, 2004, the Post ran an article claiming to have learned exclusively that Senator John Kerry, the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee-in-waiting, had selected former House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt to be the Party's Vice Presidential nominee. The article, under the headline "KERRY'S CHOICE," ran without a byline.[36] The next day, the Post had to print a new story, "KERRY'S REAL CHOICE", reporting Kerry's actual selection of Senator John Edwards of North Carolina as his running mate.

* On April 23, 2008, the "Post" ran a story on Page 6 stating that there was a sex tape about to surface featuring actor/stuntman Bam Margera and Lindsey Hughes, fiancée of radio personality Gregg "Opie" Hughes, co-host of the Opie and Anthony Show. It also stated that Gregg Hughes was planning on taking legal action to prevent the tape from running on the Internet. Hughes himself said adamantly that there was no sex tape and he had never planned on taking any legal action against the phantom tape from surfacing. Also, on April 24, Margera confirmed during a phone-in to the Opie and Anthony Show that there was no sex tape and he had never met Opie's fiancée in his life. The Post printed a full retraction on May 5, 2008, after it was revealed that Chaunce Hayden of Steppin' Out magazine had supplied false information about the existence of the tape.

These are examples of the Post being wrong, not maliciously making things up ala Rathergate. Newspapers are wrong almost daily, that's what that correction thing is all about.

* On April 21, 2006, several Asian-American advocacy groups protested the use of the headline "Wok This Way" for a Post article about President Bush's meeting with the president of the People's Republic of China.[37]

* On December 7, 2006 the Post doctored a front-page photo to depict the co-chairmen of the Iraq Study Group, James Baker and Lee Hamilton, in primate fur, under the headline "SURRENDER MONKEYS", inspired by a once used line from The Simpsons.

Examples of the Post ruffling feathers with un=PC headlines. Again, insensitive at worst, funny at best but not a lack of journalisitc integrity.

* On September 27, 2006 the Post published an article called "Powder Puff Spooks Keith" that made fun of Countdown host Keith Olbermann receiving an anthrax threat from an unknown terrorist.[38] By reporting on the incident, the Post have actually broken the general Federal Bureau of Investigation protocol of not disclosing the event which could hamper their investigation. Keith Olbermann had some harsh words for the Post on his show after this.

Pales in comparison to the NYT blowing two clandestine anti-terror operations after being asked not to.

Post versus ESPN? I dunno but the Post versus MSM? The Post has easily displayed more integrity an=d anccuracy than CNN,NYT,MSNBC etc.
   64. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:05 PM (#3060117)
*does the "coke referee motion" towards Pasta*

well, one of us owes the other one something--I forget the etiquette
   65. aleskel Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:06 PM (#3060121)
I'm too lazy to look it up, but there were a few articles last year about how Verducci was working with Torre on a tell-all book. That's why he lost his job doing the Hot Stove show with YES

here's the Worldwide Leader's take:

One source familiar with the book told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick that it's "inaccurate'' to suggest that Torre used it as a forum to get even with the Yankees or settle old scores.

The source said some of the controversial angles being reported in the New York tabloids have been taken out of context or "overblown.''

"Joe is very honest in the book,'' the source said, "but he doesn't make any personal attacks. In terms of him name-calling, that's not his style.''

The book is not a first-person tell-all, but rather, a third-person narrative by Verducci, who interviewed dozens of players and team personnel while researching for the book, the source said.
   66. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:12 PM (#3060124)
You gotta love the NY Post if only for its brilliant and insensitive headlines.

The classic:

Headless Man Found in Topless Bar

The first day of bombings for the Afghan campaign in 2001:

Talibam!

The second day:

Kabulseye!


Then there are the smaller headlines such as the one tucked on page 9 one day a few years ago that had to do with Viagra's makers being exonerated in a lawsuit that charged their drug was causing heart attacks:

Viagra Not Responsible for Stiffs

There are so many more. This is why the NY Post is a valuable newspaper for the everyday New Yorker. The headlines sometimes get me through the difficult mornings.
   67. Swedish Chef Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:13 PM (#3060126)
"Joe is very honest in the book,'' the source said, "but he doesn't make any personal attacks. In terms of him name-calling, that's not his style.''

The book is not a first-person tell-all, but rather, a third-person narrative by Verducci, who interviewed dozens of players and team personnel while researching for the book, the source said.


Keep your hands clean. Let your minion do the dirty deeds.
   68. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:21 PM (#3060130)
Oh, and it's a really, really bad movie. But it does feature the homophobe from Grey's Anatomy as Doc Gooden, and Tori Spelling's husband as David Cone.
   69. JoeHova Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:40 PM (#3060144)
Here's a letter to the New York Post
The worst piece of paper on the east coast
...
It makes no godd--- sense at all
America's oldest continuously published daily piece of bulls---
...
Writers making violence in headlines funny
...
get your story straight motherf-----
It always seem they make our neighborhood look bad
Here's a letter to the New York Post
Ain't worth the paper it's printed on
Founded in 1801 by Alexander Hamilton
That is 190 years continuous of f----d up news
...
Should have checked with me before you wrote it
Got it from another source and quote it

-Public Enemy
   70. Darren Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3060146)
yeah--I wonder if Torre is going to give credence to this "True Yankee/Not True Yankee" horseshit, as a way to absolve himself from no rings since 00


I doubt he does this, but if he does, it'd be pretty foolish. Torre was making calls and publicly commenting on wanting Albert Belle over Bernie IIRC.
   71. OCD SS Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:47 PM (#3060150)
FWIW, the article says that he rips several players for being prima donnas.


Again, and this is news?
   72. Darren Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:50 PM (#3060152)
I'm not going to read the article in fullness, but I know that Joe had issues with Sheffield and Womack.

Lofton also didn't get along with him, IIRC.


Sheffield and Lofton have been moved around a ton, considering what excellent players they are, and both have questionable reputations. And it's easy to see how playing time issues would figure with Womack and Lofton having beefs with the manager.

Still, it's an interesting group of players, and it makes you reconsider what Sheffield said about Torre.
   73. Darren Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:54 PM (#3060156)
Again, and this is news?


I'm not sure what you're saying. I was only responding to posts saying that he was only ripping ARod. Also, if Torre is ripping ex-players, it's news to me. Neither he, nor most other managers, have done that very often. He was pretty bad about backing up ARod, IMHO.
   74. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 25, 2009 at 11:38 PM (#3060173)
oh man...tell me this all isn't true. Really, Torre? Really? It just seems so unlike him.

Well, I'll side with A-Rod on this one. I hate bitter old men.
   75. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: January 25, 2009 at 11:50 PM (#3060182)
yeah--I wonder if Torre is going to give credence to this "True Yankee/Not True Yankee" horseshit, as a way to absolve himself from no rings since 00

("Hey what was I s'posed to do? They stuck me with ARod")

ARod is the universal scapegoat.
   76. Obo Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:04 AM (#3060191)
ARod is the universal scapegoat

...and he really is to blame.
   77. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:17 AM (#3060204)
ARod is the universal scapegoat

..and he really is to blame.



well, that makes it easy to keep track of
   78. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:19 AM (#3060206)
I hate bitter old men.

Make note to self, Weekly Journalist is on the "Bad List"............
   79. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:26 AM (#3060216)
You gotta love the NY Post if only for its brilliant and insensitive headlines.

Absolutely true.

The classic:

Headless Man Found in Topless Bar


And how many people remember that the popular term for Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) originated in this equally classic Post headline, the day after Reagan introduced it in an address to the nation:

STAR WARS PLAN TO ZAP RED NUKES
   80. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:30 AM (#3060217)
The classic:

Headless Man Found in Topless Bar


to quote Crash Davis : "I hate it when poeple get the
words wrong

(.."and women don't get woolly--they get weary")
   81. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:32 AM (#3060219)
Doh!
   82. Benji Gil Gamesh is not being paid to be that guy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:40 AM (#3060224)
These are examples of the Post being wrong, not maliciously making things up ala Rathergate.

I think that at worst, what the network was guilty of was not adequately verifying authenticity, not "maliciously making things up."

I also think that the greatest likelihood is that those documents were authentic. Modern day word processors and fonts intentionally mimic older typewritten styles.
   83. Darren Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:42 AM (#3060226)
BGG,

Don't be so naive. Everyone knows that Rather personally typed up those fake documents (with accurate content) to bring down Bush.
   84. Benji Gil Gamesh is not being paid to be that guy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:47 AM (#3060229)
Don't be so naive.

It's a character flaw, I know.

Oh, and Derek Jeter should never have written this book.
   85. Esoteric Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:50 AM (#3060231)
I also think that the greatest likelihood is that those documents were authentic. Modern day word processors and fonts intentionally mimic older typewritten styles.
Jesus Christ. How anybody could research this issue even CURSORILY and still believe those documents were authentic...why is this particular variety of partisan so incapable of conceding anything in the face of their Bush hatred?

For the record, I don't doubt that the guy was probably lazy and slack when it came to fulfilling his TANG duties. But jesus, the Rathergate documents are transparent fakes, perfectly reproduceable in MS Word (down to the micron w/r/t to spacing) in a way that no other document from that era or military base even remotely is (no other documents from that base/era/author look anything like the Rathergate docs), with anachronisms and wildly unlikely font irregularities (the raised "th," the kerning) to boot.

People who have looked into the matter and still think the Rathergate documents are authentic or even "likely" authentic are on the same level of truth/insanity as 9/11 conspiracists, fake-moon-landing cranks, or Holocaust deniers. There really is no middle ground here. Again: Bush probably was an irresponsible jackass with respect to his duties. He probably did the things he was accused of doing. But that doesn't make those docs anything other that malicious forgeries.
   86. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3060245)
I remember reading in one of Bill James's books about how famously ugly Torre was considered during his playing days. It was a running joke among most of his peers, so the line definitely does match the day's sentiment. In his old age, he's become distinguished looking in a Paul Sorvino way. But I think it's because age caught up with that mug.


It happened to Margaret Hamilton and Ernest Borgnine, too. Age can do that to the beauty disadvantaged.

BTW, I find it funny how the New York Post is viewed now, when it was considered a "communist" rag decades ago. :-)
   87. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:20 AM (#3060247)
But jesus, the Rathergate documents are transparent fakes, perfectly reproduceable in MS Word (down to the micron w/r/t to spacing) in a way that no other document from that era or military base even remotely is

exactly--CBS and Rather were set up (very poorly, I might add) and were too stupid to realize it--that's inexcusable
   88. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:23 AM (#3060248)
But I think it's because age caught up with that mug.

It happened to Margaret Hamilton


"..and her little dog, TOO"
   89. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:26 AM (#3060251)
No, I'm not jmac66's straight man...but I should be! :-)
   90. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:28 AM (#3060252)
thank you--I'll be here all week--make sure to tip your bartenders
   91. Benji Gil Gamesh is not being paid to be that guy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:11 AM (#3060272)
Jesus Christ. How anybody could research this issue even CURSORILY and still believe those documents were authentic...why is this particular variety of partisan so incapable of conceding anything in the face of their Bush hatred?

1) You know absolutely nothing about me, beyond that I believe/suspect the documents to be authentic. Your conclusion that I must be blinded by partisanship might reveal more about you than you know about me.

2) http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm
   92. bunyon Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:28 AM (#3060279)
I've seen women get woolly. It ain't pretty.
   93. Esoteric Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:31 AM (#3060282)
You know absolutely nothing about me, beyond that I believe/suspect the documents to be authentic.
Of COURSE I know more about you than that. I've been reading this site and the words of its commenters for YEARS - at least three years before I started actually posting. I've read your political posts - usually off-hand comments tossed into random threads - and I remember them; I know how far to the left you sit. This behavior is in keeping with that. It's disingenuous to even hint otherwise.
   94. Benji Gil Gamesh is not being paid to be that guy Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:04 AM (#3060302)
Fine, I'll credit you with a good memory then.

This behavior is in keeping with that. It's disingenuous to even hint otherwise.

I wasn't "hinting" anything beyond the fact that I doubt many people know me from 100 other posters, I'm not a big presence on the site.

"This behavior"? Who are you, my father?

The narrative that emerges as the most prominent in something as politically charged as this is not always the accurate one.
   95. Brian Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:16 AM (#3060306)
exactly--CBS and Rather were set up (very poorly, I might add) and were too stupid to realize it--that's inexcusable

Giving CBS credit for merely being stupid is overly generous. The obviously fake documents fit their narrative so they ran with it out of willful blindness. Screw integrity, we've got an election to influence!
None of the things the Post is accused of here was as bad as running a story based on forged documents and sticking by their story way past the sell-by date.
   96. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:21 AM (#3060310)
BTW, I find it funny how the New York Post is viewed now, when it was considered a "communist" rag decades ago. :-)

Well it was very far left through the 60's and 70's. Now, it's pretty far right, esp. for NYC.
   97. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:25 AM (#3060312)
Giving CBS credit for merely being stupid is overly generous. The obviously fake documents fit their narratives so they ran with it out of willful blindness.

well, yes-- and willful stupidity--if they thought they weren't going to get called out for it--as you said "obviously fake"

I know --let's start a double-level conspiracy theory: CBS was set up by the right wing, and they also planted operatives at CBS to ensure that this obviously fake horseshit would get on the air, so they would be called out for it later

I see a treatment already--is Leonardo DeCaprio available?
   98. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:11 AM (#3060321)
In an explosive new book called “The Yankee Years,” Torre gets most personal in his attacks against Alex Rodriguez, who he says was called “A-Fraud” by his teammates after he developed a “Single White Female"-like obsession with team captain Derek Jeter and asked for a personal clubhouse assistant to run errands for him.


Kind of low for Torre to stoop to this level, IMO.

I wonder if Torre admits that he had ARod carry the water for the team's failures in the postseason series against Detroit by batting him 8th -- shamelessly taking advantage of the media's hack job on ARod by scapegoating him for personal gain.
   99. RMc is the loyal supporter of the MLB event Posted: January 26, 2009 at 11:18 AM (#3060399)
This is the final comment of page one of this thread. No one will read it.
   100. CFiJ Posted: January 26, 2009 at 11:46 AM (#3060400)
That was an extremely insightful comment, RMc. I couldn't agree with you less.
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