Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, July 13, 2012

Jon Heyman: Appel, Pirates agreement unlikely by deadline; only hope may be intervention

Mark Appel, the Pirates’ No. 1 pick and the player some believed was the top pitcher in the draft, remains highly unlikely to agree to Pittsburgh’s $3.8 million offer as Friday’s 5 p.m. ET deadline approaches.

There is nothing to indicate Appel is about to change his mind, and the Pirates are believed very unlikely to raise their offer because it would mean the loss of a coveted 2013 draft choice, so the somewhat slim hope for a deal may rest on some sort of intervention by MLB higher-ups, or the ability to prove a flaw in the rules or how they were followed by other teams. There is no accusation or thought the Pirates did anything wrong.

Appel, the right-hander who surprisingly fell to the eight overall pick in the draft, would return to Stanford in the fall to complete his degree if nothing can be worked out.

The Pirates have spent more than just about any other team on drafted players the past couple years, but under the new system their total allotment to spend on draft choices was only $6.5 million. Since they spent $2.7 million on all their other picks, they are left with $3.8 million for Appel, assuming they aren’t willing to surrender a ‘13 pick.

The new system, designed to curtail wasted spending on draft choices, was orginally met with disdain by some agents who believed the best players may be needlessly hurt, and while MLB officials have seem pleased by the new rules and their effects, they have said they want to wait until the July 13 deadline before making final judgment. One MLB official said he has sensed some “grumbling” from the union side over the Appel case.

Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 12:41 PM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: draft, pirates

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4181893)
Good. I hope they don't sign him - that way, we get to take one of the many players better than Appel in next year's draft, and we have the option of devoting the above-slot dollars we were going to give Appel in this year's draft to other guys wanting above-slot money whom I 'd rather have instead of Appel, and Bud Selig gets to be publicly embarrassed for ####### the Pirates with the new draft system after he pointed to the Pirates drafting Appel as a sign that the system is working. It's win-win-win!
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4181900)
So in about two hours we'll have a story up that Mark Appel has signed.
   3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4181902)
So in about two hours we'll have a story up that Mark Appel has signed.


I hope not. I guess we'll see.
   4. Brian Oliver Posted: July 13, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4181906)
   5. villageidiom Posted: July 13, 2012 at 03:26 PM (#4181913)
There is nothing to indicate Appel is about to change his mind
Absence of evidence is sometimes a result of a nonexistence of evidence. Other times, it's a result of not looking for evidence.

What does not appear in this article? "Appel was unavailable for comment," "Appel did not respond to requests," etc.

At this point I can't read Heyman saying "His adviser, Scott Boras, declined comment Thursday," without noting that it's entirely possible Boras commented on Friday. Heyman could have worded it this way specifically to give Boras plausible deniability that he'd prompted this article. That's how much credibility Heyman has regarding Boras clients now.

I'm with #2.
   6. zack Posted: July 13, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4181916)
How many agents typically represent top draft picks? There can't be more than a dozen, right?

I wonder if you could get all the 1st round picks to agree not to sign for slot. It'd be hard (and probably a bad idea for the lower half of the first round) to get kids to give up a year of prime development and the first real payday they'll ever see. But since the MLBPA essentially refuses to represent non-MLB players, they'd need to do it themselves.

Really even that would probably be ineffective, because I think the owners could deal with one lost class, and then you've doubled the supply for the next one. You'd have to get them organized even earlier than this, before the draft.

I think in 30 years we're going to think of the treatment of prospects much like we think about the reserve clause today.
   7. AROM Posted: July 13, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4181921)
The Pirates have spent more than just about any other team on drafted players the past couple years, but under the new system their total allotment to spend on draft choices was only $6.5 million. Since they spent $2.7 million on all their other picks, they are left with $3.8 million for Appel, assuming they aren’t willing to surrender a ‘13 pick.


That's not quite right. If they go over, they pay a tax, as long as they don't go over by 5%. You only lose a pick if you are over by 5%, so it seems there's about 325,000 room to negotiate there.

Edit: I guess that wiggle room is already accounted for in the 3.8 offer, as his slot is only 2.9 million.
   8. PreservedFish Posted: July 13, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4181948)
I'm curious what Boras would do if he were representing someone like Strasburg or Harper. I assume that he would begin negotations way above the 5% surplus and the forfeited pick.

Can you still do the St. Paul Saints year and then go free agent?
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4181952)
Can you still do the St. Paul Saints year and then go free agent?


Only if you go undrafted after that year in indy ball.
   10. AJMcCringleberry Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4181955)
The new system, designed to curtail wasted spending on draft choices, was orginally met with disdain by some agents who believed the best players may be needlessly hurt, and while MLB officials have seem pleased by the new rules and their effects

You don't say?
   11. TerpNats Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4181960)
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4181961)
Callis says Appel has officially not signed.

Giolito signed with the Nats for $2.925 mill
   13. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4181963)
A's sign 2nd rounder Nolan Sanborn, but not 3rd rounder Kyle Twomey (they get draft pick comp next year for him, right?)

Mets did not sign 2nd rounder Teddy Stankiewicz

Padres sign 40th round Terrance Owen, a QB for Toledo
   14. Bad Doctor Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4181967)
I think in 30 years we're going to think of the treatment of prospects much like we think about the reserve clause today.

If "we" is a handful of people on this board, we're probably there already. If "we" is baseball fans at large, I can't see it. The draftees who becomes stars are going to make nine figures; who's going to remember their first contract? The ones who bomb out ... well, to the general public, they weren't any good anyway, so why lose sleep over them getting a "mere" couple million in their one shot at a payday? (Hell, that's the main reason why you'd likely find that professional sports fans as a whole support draft slots ... there was a pretty big groundswell for them in the NFL.)

Sure, there will be some kids who get injured or flame out and lose a few million in this process, but that's not going to resonate with the general populace like all-time greats having to work day jobs in the offseason.
   15. Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4181968)
AG#1F, yeah, top three rounds get comp picks if you don't sign. Unless they changed it in the new CBA.
   16. rlc Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4181969)
Gausman tweets that he's an O.
   17. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4181982)
(Hell, that's the main reason why you'd likely find that professional sports fans as a whole support draft slots ... there was a pretty big groundswell for them in the NFL.)

Totally different. The logic there was that deals for top draft picks had gotten so out of control that they were impacting teams' ability to sign veteran free agents. I'm not enough of an expert to know how true that was, but it's certainly plausible.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4181983)
Barring a major court decision, I think #14 is right. College football and basketball (even some HS) players are already big stars who will usually step right into the major leagues. Those sports have had slot money for ages and nobody has successfully complained about it. Who's going to get worked up about baseball draftees that nobody has heard of and are years away from contributing.

And with the Clarett (?) case, it's hard for me to see a legal basis to challenge it.

EDIT: I should add that the most likely scenario is that the union decides to push this cause. That's possible but as long as most of the money saved on the draft finds its way into union members' pockets, the union won't have a problem with this. Anyway, there will likely be some tweaks over the next few years, especially if a Strasburg or Harper or Prior goes unsigned, but I think the general system is here to stay.
   19. Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4181984)
Totally different. The logic there was that deals for top draft picks had gotten so out of control that they were impacting teams' ability to sign veteran free agents. I'm not enough of an expert to know how true that was, but it's certainly plausible.


More like the top draft picks were getting more than even the highest paid veterans in the NFL, and that was pissing off the NFL players, but not necessarily the NFLPA. The only thing that impacts a team's ability to sign players in the NFL is the salary cap.
   20. Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4181998)
John Grupp ?@JGrupp_trib
Boras on Pirates-““This system placed teams like Pittsburgh in a great dilemma. It wasn't about a willingness to pay. It’s about a system .”
   21. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: July 13, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4182006)
I assume his Stanford degree will allow him to avoid selling tires at Costco.
   22. Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4182020)
Yeah, he'll work at Starbucks instead.
   23. Jay Z Posted: July 13, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4182031)
Sure, there will be some kids who get injured or flame out and lose a few million in this process, but that's not going to resonate with the general populace like all-time greats having to work day jobs in the offseason.


The public didn't give a hoot about player salaries back when they did have to work day jobs in the offseason. Believe me, I know, I was there.
   24. Swedish Chef Posted: July 13, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4182112)
The world is upside-down, the Yankees paid their first rounder the least, he got 1.2M, 400k under slot.
   25. Tripon Posted: July 13, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4182115)
Apparently, Ty Hensley's MRI came back with a shoulder injury. Which is why he had to take less.
   26. Walt Davis Posted: July 13, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4182240)
#23 -- yeah, I meant to mention that. The vast majority of the fans had no problem with the reserve clause. The reserve clause went away because of the union's efforts. And the union has never been popular with fans since.

But then I decided that, although maybe phrased oddly, the original poster wasn't necessarily saying it would be public sentiment that would change things. Not that they think about it but most fans now would view the reserve clause as an anachronism I think. Not as big and unjust an anachronism as the color barrier but nobody's openly expressing nostalgia for the reserve clause.

The Clarett decision kinda surprised me (again, I'm not a labor lawyer so maybe it shouldn't). And I wonder if there isn't wiggle room in baseball -- most baseball draftees do not immediately become members of the union so could one argue that, in baseball, this is not "controlling entry to the profession" (or whatever the phrasing in Clarett was).
   27. MM1f Posted: July 13, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4182262)
The world is upside-down, the Yankees paid their first rounder the least, he got 1.2M, 400k under slot.


I have never really thought of the Yankees as crazy over-slot with their first round picks, certainly not on a level as the really aggressive teams like the Royals or Tigers. They gave Slade Heathcott double his slot value (for some reason), but Cito Culver was right at slot and Bichette and Ian Kennedy only got somewhat more than slot money. And then of course Gerrit Cole simply didn't sign. There was Brackman of course though...

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harry Balsagne, anti-Centaur hate crime division
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogPablo Sandoval leaning toward Red Sox, to decide next week — Padres have highest offer, all offers on table (including SF Giants’) - John Shea
(5 - 10:28am, Nov 23)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

NewsblogKemp drawing interest, raising chance he's the Dodgers OF dealt - CBSSports.com
(13 - 10:24am, Nov 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogFemale Sportswriter Asks: 'Why Are All My Twitter Followers Men?' | ThinkProgress
(135 - 10:04am, Nov 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogOTP Politics November 2014: Mets Deny Bias in Ticket Official’s Firing
(4171 - 10:04am, Nov 23)
Last: BDC

NewsblogOT - November 2014 College Football thread
(554 - 9:48am, Nov 23)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

NewsblogFriars show interest in dealing for Bruce | MLB.com
(21 - 9:10am, Nov 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogCashman in wait-and-see mode on retooling Yanks | yankees.com
(19 - 9:05am, Nov 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogPirates DFA Ike Davis, clear path for Pedro Alvarez - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
(5 - 8:55am, Nov 23)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

NewsblogDeadspin: Curt Schilling’s Son Accidentally Brings Fake Grenade To Logan Airport
(13 - 8:53am, Nov 23)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogESPN Suspends Keith Law From Twitter For Defending Evolution
(101 - 8:37am, Nov 23)
Last: Scott Lange

NewsblogBraves shopping Justin Upton at a steep price | New York Post
(29 - 8:20am, Nov 23)
Last: shoewizard

NewsblogRays name managerial finalists: Cash, Ibanez, Wakamatsu | Tampa Bay Times
(13 - 3:52am, Nov 23)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - November 2014
(966 - 2:27am, Nov 23)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-21-2014
(48 - 11:13pm, Nov 22)
Last: Sweatpants

NewsblogMike Schmidt: Marlins' Stanton too rich too early? | www.palmbeachpost.com
(24 - 10:32pm, Nov 22)
Last: Moeball

Page rendered in 0.3706 seconds
52 querie(s) executed