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Thursday, July 12, 2018

Jose Ramirez is pulling more than our heartstrings

How Jose Ramirez isn’t a bigger story in baseball rignt now is utterly mind-blowing.

Three years, three consecutive leaps up the ladder of excellence from star to superstar and now he finds himself among the absolute elite of players. FanGraphs and Baseball Reference place him behind only Mike Trout by WAR, with Baseball Prospectus placing him third behind Mookie Betts. This year the power is through the roof too, as Ramirez has made yet another massive change to how he hits. Literally nobody in baseball is pulling the ball as much as he is.

Would he be more famous with a more unusual name?

The Indians are up 8.5 games in their division, and are being chased by teams with far inferior talent.

Nasty Nate Posted: July 12, 2018 at 08:59 AM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cleveland indians

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: July 12, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5709240)
It's been a slow process and he plays in Cleveland where he's been, rightly or wrongly, overshadowed by Lindor and CYA winner Kluber. He's kinda like Ben Zobrist with more power and Zobrist was never famous outside of saber circles (and I and others questioned whether he could really be as good as WAR said).

I am fairly certain that he is no longer 165 lbs (5'9") as listed at b-r. :-)

By the way, on pace for nearly 50 HR this year. In the old days, that would have been enough to keep him out of the HoF.



   2. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 12, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5709346)
I am fairly certain that he is no longer 165 lbs (5'9") as listed at b-r. :-)


Considering they list Mookie at 5'9" 180lbs. Mookie looks like a 3rd world refugee compared to Ramirez. Ramirez is solid, he'd got to be at least 200 lbs these days.

I posted in the chatter just yesterday how fun this guy is to watch. Just an incredible start to a career no one saw coming.
   3. Walt Davis Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:58 AM (#5709394)
Just an incredible start to a career no one saw coming.

I happened to see Ramirez play in person as a rookie. I thought he looked like he'd be a decent ML SS given he was only 21 -- although I had the fortune of seeing possibly his only multi-hit game that year. Granted I figured an upside like Renteria or maybe Andrus not 25+ HR and more likely an 80-85 OPS+ solid fielding type but at least I thought he'd belong. I think some folks here thought he'd never hit at all -- and they looked pretty smart in 2015.
   4. Rally Posted: July 13, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5709421)
Ramirez was young for his minor league levels and held his own, showed good control of the strike zone. Based on that I figured he was a good bet to be a productive hitter for a middle infielder, maybe a .350 OBP guy who could hit at the top of the order. I never imagined he would come close to the power numbers of the last year and a half.
   5. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5709440)
Would he be more famous with a more unusual name?
This is actually kind of an interesting question for a slow Friday - who is the most famous player with the least unusual name? In the Latin American division, Pedro Martinez? Tony Perez? In the Gringo division, Randy Johnson would be a contender but for the jokes. Walter Johnson, if anyone named their kids Walter anymore. Ted wins over Billy in terms of fame for Williamses. Of course A-Rod has the Other Mammal division locked up.
   6. PreservedFish Posted: July 13, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5709448)
Ramirez went in the late 2nd round in my DMB rookie draft. Infielders taken before him were Chris Owings and Luis Sardinas, Joe Panik, Chris Taylor and Kolten Wong. Two of those guys were my picks. I liked Ramirez a lot and as soon as I took Chris Owings, I recognized him as the best player on the board and tried to trade up to grab him, but didn't find a deal.

Granted I figured an upside like Renteria

That's what I was thinking at the time. He had very little scouting buzz but he was so so young that you had to figure he had ability.
   7. Rally Posted: July 13, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5709466)
who is the most famous player with the least unusual name?


Frank Robinson? Eddie Matthews? Frank Thomas?

I'd put Larry Jones on the list if he didn't go by Chipper.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5709476)
Frank Robinson? Eddie Matthews? Frank Thomas?
Good contenders all. Yeah, I had the same thought about Larry Wayne.

Maybe Howard Johnson for a certain generation?
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: July 13, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5709489)
Eddie Matthews?


The single T foils that.

   10. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5709508)

George Davis?

Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown are both good candidates in that there have been two other (in Brown's case, contemporaneous) MLB players with the same name.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5709519)
George Davis isn't exactly famous. Kevin Brown...eh, not all that famous either outside of folks like us.
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5709529)

Yeah, I guess I was thinking more about the best players with generic names, rather than the most famous ones.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5709534)
Joe Morgan?
   14. Rally Posted: July 13, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5709557)
Curious as to how good the best "John Smith" has ever been, I discovered that Dwight Smith is actually named John Dwight Smith. He was better than the other John Smiths, none of whom more than a handful of games. He has a son of the same name who has been up and down between Buffalo and Toronto the last 2 seasons.

No Jerome Walton Jr. in pro baseball, at least so far.
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5709571)
Players from the 1989 Upper Deck High Number series whose sons have played MLB:

Jesse Barfield
Lance McCullers
Tom Gordon
Bob Boone
Dwight Smith


Interestingly, both Jamie Moyer and Julio Franco had cards in that series.
   16. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 13, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5709577)
I'm pretty sure that there's an Allen & Ginter card of Julio Franco.

Anyhow, there's been three Joe Smiths in MLB. (I'm surprised that the total is that low.) The one that you're thinking of has been the best of them. 12 WAR in 12 seasons, still hanging around for *checks* Houston.

Unsurprisingly, there has been only one Esix Snead to play in MLB.
   17. Rally Posted: July 13, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5709588)
And not a single Sicnarf Loopstok has ever played in MLB. But that could change, he's made it up to AA and can catch.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2018 at 03:48 AM (#5709794)
(in Brown's case, contemporaneous) MLB players with the same name.

By that standard, Ryan Braun and, I still can't believe it, Jeff d'Amico qualify.

In earlier versions of b-r, I had a special hatred for Kerry Woodson.

EDIT: Billy Williams also had a contemporaneous eponym(?) with a very brief ML career. There was a 2nd Bob Gibson but many years later.
   19. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:21 AM (#5709795)
if anyone named their kids Walter anymore

Now we've been through this before. Among those quasi-hipster parents that love "old-fashioned" names, Walter is doing just fine. I assume it remains fairly common in the African-American community.

Per the fine folks at Social Security, it reached its nadir in 2008, ranked 393. It has since zoomed (zoomed I say!) up to 265.

Further, there are about 2 million male babies born in the US each year. Even being as low as #400 ain't too shabby. In 2008, this was 764 babies. That's more than Russell, Ramon, Gary, Roger, Lawrence. Damon, Chad, Rodney, Bruce, Carl -- Walter's got them all beat. Ahead of Felipe dammit! Ahead of Kobe!!

In 2017, we are all the way up to 1,353 birhs, just behind Andre. We are clinging to a very narrow lead over Phoenix, Colt and Kameron (####### Kardashians). Actually Phoenix has been tracking us since at least 2007 ... Walter then Phoenix

2007 379 419
2008 393 398
2009 383 367
2010 372 376
2011 373 388
2012 376 380
2013 342 381
2014 337 354
2015 308 307
2016 302 293
2017 265 268

Showing there are about as many parents with sense as those without. I bet none of the Walter parents were dumb enough to vote for Trump.

OK, I'm being tough on the Kardashians -- I'm a bit surprised that Kylie is just 114, Khloe 137 and Kendall 225. Somehow Kim (not Kimberley) doesn't even rank in the top 1000.
   20. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 14, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5709843)
By that standard, Ryan Braun and, I still can't believe it, Jeff d'Amico qualify.

Yes, but there were *two* other Kevin Browns while he played.

I like cases such as Frank Thomas and Brian Giles, where there have been two players of different races with the same name. And of course, there was the time when the Mets had two Bobby Joneses on the roster at the same time, one a lefty and one a righty, one black and one white. They subsequently both played for the Padres at the same time as well.
   21. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 14, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5709853)
Would he be more famous with a more unusual name?

You may be joking, but I think he would be. I always have trouble remembering his name.
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 14, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5709873)
I like cases such as Frank Thomas and Brian Giles, where there have been two players of different races with the same name.
...at which point I learn for the first time that The Other Brian Giles was black. And presumably still is, Sosa notwithstanding.
   23. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 14, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5709878)
I'm surprised that there's been only one Juan Gonzalez in MLB.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 14, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5709882)
Well, also a Juan Gonzales, contemporaneously.
   25. Hysterical & Useless Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5709911)
the Mets had two Bobby Joneses on the roster at the same time, one a lefty and one a righty,


And of course the two Bob Millers, lefty & righty, back in '62

Think they were both melanin-deprived, though
   26. Sunday silence Posted: July 14, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5709956)
tuned in thinking this was yet another story about a guy who wont go the other way vs. the shift.
   27. Nasty Nate Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5710162)
He has 5 homers in his last 5 games and is tied with Martinez for the major-league lead.

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