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Wednesday, September 28, 2011

Jose Reyes Might Have Won The Batting TitleĀ ...

... yet the Mets still figured out a way to make a PR mess out of it. Reyes bunted for a single in the first inning of Wednesday’s game. The crowd went nuts. Then he was pulled for a pinch-runner in what might be his final game as a Met… Instead of leaving to cheers, the crowd boos the move.

Frozen heads are exploding as we speak.

The District Attorney Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:44 PM | 62 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets, minor leagues

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   1. True Blue Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM (#3941592)
A PR blunder by the Mets? You don't say. Why that hasn't happened in the last 48 hours.

Bottom line, a cheese champion like Reyes was on a fourth place team that went 77-85 and has missed the playoffs in 10 of the last 11 years.
   2. Guapo Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#3941602)
According to the Twitterati, Reyes pulled himself. So can't pin this one on the Mets.
   3. Something Other Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:50 PM (#3941633)
From mlb.com

"I guess we're all rooting against Ryan tonight," third baseman David Wright said.
Nope. This ########, including Reyes attitude afterwards, actually has me rooting for Braun.

Reyes himself planned the bunt-and-bolt strategy early on Wednesday, asking manager Terry Collins to let him leave the game after one at-bat.

An emotional Collins recalled both the conversation and the reaction shortly after the game.

"I heard some comments in the stands," Collins said, fighting back tears. "I don't blame them. People pay a good price to come to these games, and they've got to understand that I ask these players to do a lot. I've worked hard to get their respect this year, and they deserve ours."

"The [fans] have to understand what's going on," Reyes said. "They have to feel happy if I win the batting title. I do it for the team and for the fans, too."
I understand what's going on, you chickensh!t #####. Why do I have to root for this cowardly display? Yes, yes, I know Reyes is far from the only guy to ever pull this crap, but it still reeks. Good for the crowd. Are they supposed to applaud this kind of thing?
   4. Shock Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM (#3941655)
This is why new-fangled stats like Batting Average have ruined the game.
   5. akrasian Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:11 PM (#3941679)
So what does Braun have to do tonight to win it?
   6. JJ1986 Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:16 PM (#3941708)
So what does Braun have to do tonight to win it?


3 for 4 or better.
   7. Sam M. Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3941715)
Nope. This ########, including Reyes attitude afterwards, actually has me rooting for Braun.


To each his own. I totally get Jose's feelings. He's been through a ton of crap as a Met, from being blamed for things that weren't even close to his fault, being criticized for his enthusiasm and energy on the field, to having to endure repeated injuries when all he's wanted to do is play ball and help the Mets win. He's suffered through devastating collapses, and the disappointment of falling short in 2006.

He clearly wants to win this batting title badly. If he didn't choose the way you would have to go about it on the last day of the season, I really don't care. He's closed the season in style, going 13 for his last 30. He hasn't back in to anything. He's given Braun a chance to earn it, and if Braun does, so be it. For my part, I want it for Jose Reyes, who 99% of the time (with only the rarest lapse) has given great effort and tremendous excitement to Mets fans since he came up to the majors.

If this was his last moment as a Met, how sad -- but how typical of his years with the team -- that some Mets' fans can't just appreciate him, but have to slam him right to the end. He's been putting up with this crap since the beginning. I guess it truly will never end.
   8. AJM Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#3941764)
Jose!
   9. The District Attorney Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:36 PM (#3941828)
Braun has to get three hits in fewer than five at-bats. (If he gets them in his first three or four AB and the game is out of hand, he will surely leave at that point, but I believe I saw somewhere that he said he will not come out of the game if the outcome is still in doubt. It is a meaningful game in terms of playoff home field advantage.)

Braun himself claims to be fine with it:
I respect whatever decision [Reyes] decided to make, and I'm not really here to judge him.
Then again, Braun would no doubt love for Reyes to be a Brewer next year (and reports were he was lobbying Jose at the All-Star Game). CJ Wilson knows a team probably can't afford both him and Jose, so he let loose:
Seriously people- taking out a star player to preserve his batting average lead...weak! I hope ryan braun goes 5- 5 and wins the title now


According to the Twitterati, Reyes pulled himself.
That's the current story, but it's questionable when Collins had already said this was the plan:
"If he gets a hit early, there's a chance he won't be around very long," Collins told reporters Tuesday morning.
I suppose it's possible that Collins was relaying what he knew to be Reyes' wishes. And perhaps more importantly, if Collins did go to Reyes with this idea and Reyes objected, Collins surely wouldn't have made him do it.

So, whoever's idea it originally was, the buck ultimately stops with Reyes. We have seen a heck of a lot of both his joyous side, and his petulant side. Especially when he tells the fans that they "have to feel happy" about it, this becomes the latter. Don't get me wrong, I hope he come back to the Mets; he is a great player, and I do think his heart is in the right place. But sometimes, just... Jose.

This was really the worst possible method of trying to influence the batting title. It would have been better simply to sit out the game. It would have been better if Reyes had at least stayed in beyond literally being the first Met at-bat of the game. And -- and this part is totally on Collins -- if Jose was going to be removed from this game at all, it absolutely should have been at the beginning of the top of the inning, so that the fans could give him an ovation. I mean, this might have been the man's last game ever as a Met. Unfair to the fans, and disrespectful to the player, the latter of which is the concern that Collins says is behind this whole thing. Ugh. Bad job.

If this was his last moment as a Met, how sad -- but how typical of his years with the team -- that some Mets' fans can't just appreciate him, but have to slam him right to the end. He's been putting up with this crap since the beginning. I guess it truly will never end.
Look, I don't care what the fans think; you don't care what the fans think; and deep down in his soul, I don't think Jose Reyes honestly cares what the fans think. But if you do want to manage Jose Reyes' public relations, this is not what you do. If the fans' final memory of Jose Reyes is that he devoted his last game as a Met to protecting his own stats and then took $200 million to go play somewhere else, that is going to be a humongous obstacle towards them looking back fondly on his Met career. I feel really sure about that. I can hear the FAN callers now.
   10. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:36 PM (#3941829)
Ya'know Sam, if Jose had played six or seven innings and then left at the beginning of an inning under the pretense of the crowd getting a chance to cheer him one last time none of this would be discussed.

Instead he had to take this route.

You are working too hard to excuse what was a subpar decision.

He goofed and so did his manager.
   11. Karl from NY Posted: September 28, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3941992)
4 for 6 also works for Braun.
   12. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:03 AM (#3942499)
You are working too hard to excuse what was a subpar decision.


No, Harveys -- you are free to disagree with me, of course, and I respect that to the umpteenth degree. But don't doubt for a moment that I am 100% serious & sincere that criticism of Jose Reyes from Mets' fans on this royally pisses me off. After all the years he's given us, with too many of the masses in the stands giving him grief as often as they've appreciated him, the absolute last thing he deserves at this point is more of the same. For a Mets' fan after all that's happened to say he's rooting for Braun to get the batting title that Jose Reyes wants so clearly, and so much, just makes me nuts.

For all the years of thrills, for all the spectacular plays, for the triples in the gaps, for the diving stops and the amazing arm, he should get this batting title, or at the very least he should get our support in his desire for it. Even if you don't like his decision, weigh that one disagreement against all he's done in the uniform, and if you still want to root for Ryan Braun, all I can say is I just don't fathom that balancing act in any way.

For me, I am glad Ryan Braun is 0-2 so far. And after tonight, I'll be rooting for Braun to kick the crap out of the other NL play-off teams in the post-season.
   13. bunyon Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:13 AM (#3942586)
I'm with Sam. In an ideal world, this wwas a bad decision. But, in MLB, this is more often the rule than the exception. Yes, Ted Williams played two games when he could have sat and preserved .400. There is a reason we still talk about this 70 year old event. It's unusual.

I'm also all for Harveys, a Brewer fan and Braun fan, taking umbrage. That is as it should be. I'm with Sam in hardly believing Met fans are upset.

The rest of us. Meh. We probably shouldn't care much either way.
   14. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:17 AM (#3942653)
Braun has gone 0-2 so far and looks like he is going to make all of this moot.
   15. Into the Void Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:23 AM (#3942699)
For all the years of thrills, for all the spectacular plays, for the triples in the gaps, for the diving stops and the amazing arm, he should get this batting title


You make it sound like he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart or because of his love for the Mets, and as if he's not being paid millions upon millions of dollars specifically to make those plays. Root for him all you want, but there's no denying he took the coward's route to the batting title today.
   16. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:29 AM (#3942749)
You make it sound like he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart or because of his love for the Mets, and as if he's not being paid millions upon millions of dollars specifically to make those plays.


I don't care why he's doing it, or what his motivation might be. I'm sure that players play the game for a wide range of motivations, of which loving it is in there (in greater and lesser amounts, depending on the player) along with making lots of money.

So what?

The point here is that in playing the game the way he has, Jose Reyes has brought me a ton of pleasure, almost no end of memorable moments, and thrills. I've enjoyed watching him for all these years as he has developed his game, honed his skills in innumerable ways, and gotten to the point where he can have a season the way he has. That's kind of the deal with fandom, remember? The players on your team play, and if they do great things, you enjoy it? And if they accomplish important, landmark, milestone kind of things in their career, you are happy for them? I seem to recall that this is part of the joy and fun of being a fan.

Rarely is being a fan more fun than it is rooting for Jose Reyes. I've gotten so much from him, often in years when there hasn't been much more to get from being a Mets' fan -- including this year, by the way. He wants very badly to be the NL batting champion for 2011. So I want it for him. This is not a complicated thing. It's simple, in fact. And his large salary has exactly nothing to do with it.
   17. Conor Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:45 AM (#3942861)
Sam, I can kind of see what you're saying, but I still can't buy it.

If you want the batting title, my feeling is go out and earn it. I know everyone can't be Ted Williams, and I know Jose is far from the first person and won;t be the last person to do something like that to protect a batting title, but damn. I don't think I'm ever going to be convinced that's right.

Also, that might be the last game Jose ever played for the Mets. (I know you know this, of course). Would be kinda a sucky way for him to go out, if you ask me. I'm sure a lot of people came to the game for the express purpose of seeing Jose in what could be his last game as a Met.
   18. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:48 AM (#3942886)
I guess 10 people can be considered a lot.
   19. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:11 AM (#3943056)
I've been a huge fan of Reyes since he came up back when I was 21 years old in 2003. Man, that was a long time ago. I've enjoyed every bit of his season, and have been his booster on this very site back when people were writing him off as being another overhyped Mets prospect after his first full season. Search the site. It's there.

But this is crap. The only question is whether the Mets management is to blame or whether to blame Reyes for taking himself out of the game. If you're up for a batting title you respect the goddamned integrity of the game by playing the full goddamned final game of the season.

edit: I admit that last sentence makes me sound like an old fuddy duddy.
   20. Howie Menckel Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:35 AM (#3943259)
I spent the last weekend of the 1986 season at Fenway Park, watching the Yankees-Red Sox series (back then, you could call up at midseason and get plenty of tickets at face value mailed to you, so my buddies and I did that and took a 4-hour drive to get there).

Wade Boggs nearly had the batting title wrapped up, and the Red Sox had already clinched the AL East. Boggs conveniently, in many minds, sat out the series.

Don Mattingly went 2 for 4 on Thursday night, but had a long way to go.
Rainout Friday, double dip on Saturday.
Game 1, Mattingly gets a couple of hits right off the bat, and the Fenway crowd is murmuring - hey, gotta give this guy credit. He started getting applause as he came to the plate. 3 for 5 overall, I think, and as he bats for Game 2 iirc, a louder applause for his first AB. Mattingly was too far back, and went 1 for 5 or 0 for 4 or whatever, but the Fenway faithful - well aware of the Williams lore - took notice of Mattingly at least giving it the old college try.

[ducks for Tracer corrections; that's how I remember it anyway]
   21. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:37 AM (#3943272)
it's racism--hey, it's happened before
   22. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:55 AM (#3943457)
But this is crap. The only question is whether the Mets management is to blame or whether to blame Reyes for taking himself out of the game. If you're up for a batting title you respect the goddamned integrity of the game by playing the full goddamned final game of the season.


I have no quarrel with people thinking Reyes did the wrong thing, and even feeling strongly about it. I don't particularly agree, but OK -- I can see the other side. My only point is that, even if you feel this way, as a Mets' fan, you should STILL have been rooting for Reyes to get the batting title because despite what happened today, all the things you mentioned about his career and rooting for him all these years should outweigh his decision to come out. We're Mets' fans. Reyes has earned our loyalty, even if you don't like what he did today.

How fans of other teams feel about it, that's a whole other story.
   23. Banta Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:12 AM (#3943617)
I said earlier in the day that I don't give a rip about batting titles, but I give even less of a rip about this controversy. I love Jose and if this was his last day as a Met, the way it went down won't effect my memory of him at all. He is a helluva player and I loved watching every second of him playing. And I KNOW if this game meant anything, that he wouldn't have left. But it didn't, so whatever the hell he wants to do is his business.
   24. bobm Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:27 AM (#3943790)
This anger at Reyes reminds me of people's anger at A-Rod for the classless things A-Rod does. It's a sense of "here we go again" that makes any offense look 100x worse because of people's pre-conceived notions/expectations about Reyes, A-Rod, etc.
   25. Into the Void Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:35 AM (#3943880)
This anger at Reyes reminds me of people's anger at A-Rod for the classless things A-Rod does. It's a sense of "here we go again" that makes any offense look 100x worse because of people's pre-conceived notions/expectations about Reyes, A-Rod, etc.


You really don't think people would be saying the same thing if Braun did this instead of Reyes? If Braun singles in his first at bat and then took himself out of the game Mets fans wouldn't say anything? Obviously it's not a big deal, it's just a weak move no matter who does it. I don't think too many people (outside of Mets fans) have any expectations from Reyes other than to play the damn game.
   26. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:46 AM (#3944012)
What a #####.
   27. PreservedFish Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:57 AM (#3944113)
Reyes is my favorite player. I think this move was pretty lame, but, I also don't care that much.
   28. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:00 AM (#3944181)
I wanted him to win, and I'm happy he won. But I'm still more than a little annoyed that he won this way. I'm much happier since Braun went 0-4 or whatever. But he should have played the whole game, and that tarnishes the happiness I get from Reyes winning a batting title.
   29. Darren Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:35 AM (#3944465)
Wade Boggs nearly had the batting title wrapped up, and the Red Sox had already clinched the AL East. Boggs conveniently, in many minds, sat out the series.


Boggs had been hurt and it was well documented. There was some thought that he might play but as you note, he was headed to the postesason and there was little reason to risk injury. At the time that Boggs took off, though, there was little reason to think Mattingly had a shot at catching him. It was only after Mattingly had a few great games that even came into question.

Mattingly was too far back, and went 1 for 5 or 0 for 4 or whatever, but the Fenway faithful - well aware of the Williams lore - took notice of Mattingly at least giving it the old college try.


I'm sure they did cheer out of respect but I doubt it had anything to do with Williams. Williams could have lost .400--Mattingly had nothing to lose.
   30. Darren Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:37 AM (#3944473)
Also, can't wait to see the different way Reyes is treated compared to Jeter, who left the game tonight (which meant something) the second he had no chance to reach .300.
   31. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: September 29, 2011 at 06:08 AM (#3944612)
"old fuddy duddy"

a 'silly fuddy duddy' will do. fuddy duddies come at all ages, no need to single out the old ones ... : )

Go Jose!
   32. Howie Menckel Posted: September 29, 2011 at 06:31 AM (#3944631)
"I'm sure they did cheer out of respect but I doubt it had anything to do with Williams. Williams could have lost .400--Mattingly had nothing to lose."

ah, but Boggs did.
   33. Lars6788 Posted: September 29, 2011 at 08:08 AM (#3944662)
Someone would dissect the info and give baseball fans a lecture on how Braun maybe dealing with some mysterious injury, how it has been a long season and how his bat is going to be needed for the playoffs.

With Reyes, well - you know he's just another lazy [blank] player collecting a paycheck for playing a kid's game.

This anger at Reyes reminds me of people's anger at A-Rod for the classless things A-Rod does. It's a sense of "here we go again" that makes any offense look 100x worse because of people's pre-conceived notions/expectations about Reyes, A-Rod, etc.



You really don't think people would be saying the same thing if Braun did this instead of Reyes? If Braun singles in his first at bat and then took himself out of the game Mets fans wouldn't say anything? Obviously it's not a big deal, it's just a weak move no matter who does it. I don't think too many people (outside of Mets fans) have any expectations from Reyes other than to play the damn game.
   34. Something Other Posted: September 29, 2011 at 08:27 AM (#3944664)
No, Harveys -- you are free to disagree with me, of course, and I respect that to the umpteenth degree. But don't doubt for a moment that I am 100% serious & sincere that criticism of Jose Reyes from Mets' fans on this royally pisses me off. After all the years he's given us, with too many of the masses in the stands giving him grief as often as they've appreciated him, the absolute last thing he deserves at this point is more of the same. For a Mets' fan after all that's happened to say he's rooting for Braun to get the batting title that Jose Reyes wants so clearly, and so much, just makes me nuts.
Sorry, Sam, but that sort of reasoning is an embarrassment. To lump legitimate criticism of Reyes' cheap, disappointing early exit in with whatever silly criticism Reyes has received from other sources during his Met career is frankly nonsensical. I would have hoped a law professor would have known better than to conflate the two. At any rate, why on earth should I root for Reyes to succeed by behaving badly, cheaply? Because he tells me I should? If he win, he wins cheap. It's easy for someone to say, hey, the game was meaningless, but by that count any and every game after a team is out of the hunt for the postseason is meaningless. The team was obviously worse with Reyes out of the game. His priorities were clear. Why am I obliged to not note that, and not deplore that?

We're Mets' fans. Reyes has earned our loyalty, even if you don't like what he did today.
What you're asking for is blind loyalty. Sorry to disappoint you. I would have loved it if he'd done it the right way (yeah, it's an overplayed card, but in some case there's a right way to do things). He didn't. What he left us with was one more taste of the Wilpon Mets.

There's nothing at all contradictory about people who, like me, have repeatedly over the years written here how much they've enjoyed Reyes being on the Mets, being frankly disappointed with his exit.

As for both the Rays and the Cardinals getting to the postseason, holy canoli. That's nuts.
   35. Athletic Supporter gangnam style Posted: September 29, 2011 at 08:42 AM (#3944666)
It's a sense of "here we go again" that makes any offense look 100x worse because of people's pre-conceived notions/expectations about Reyes, A-Rod, etc.


Yeah, you gotta watch your wallet when those guys are around.
   36. J. Sosa Posted: September 29, 2011 at 11:15 AM (#3944687)
Heard Kruk on the radio this morning saying "he didn't understand Reyes' thought process" in getting a hit and taking himself out of the game.

Words fail me.
   37. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 12:35 PM (#3944713)
# 34 -- I am not asking for blind loyalty. I'm asking for balance. You can criticize Reyes for what he did yesterday, if you like. I happen to think it's much less of a cause for complaint than, say, Mariano Rivera not pitching the bottom of the 9th last night in Tampa in a game with play-off implications, but we can debate those issues and differ on them, which is what a baseball board is all about.

I would be asking blind loyalty if I said you should take Reyes's side and not criticize him. That's not it. I'm saying that whatever wrong you think he did, I cannot understand how it could outweigh the years he's played as a Met, with all that has happened to and with him. He didn't bribe official scorers to try and fix the batting race. He didn't put out a contract on Ryan Braun. Reyes came out of the last game of the season after one AB. Dislike that all you want. But to then root against him in the batting race? I'm sorry, that's 20-20 disloyalty.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 12:51 PM (#3944733)
Heard Kruk on the radio this morning saying "he didn't understand Reyes' thought process" in getting a hit and taking himself out of the game.


I have no trouble believing that Kruk doesn't understand a lot of things - and I say that with affection.
   39. stanmvp48 Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:15 PM (#3944769)
So Reyes finishes 8th in on base average and 17th in slugging average. What is this other statistic people keep talking about? How is it calculated? Why do people care who leads the league in it?
   40. billyshears Posted: September 29, 2011 at 01:36 PM (#3944794)
I think this move was pretty lame, but, I also don't care that much.


Ditto. But also with a heaping tablespoon of feeling that it's nice that a Met finally won a batting title. For whatever that matters.
   41. zack Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:16 PM (#3944870)
So Reyes finishes 8th in on base average and 17th in slugging average. What is this other statistic people keep talking about? How is it calculated? Why do people care who leads the league in it?


Because it is cool. Because this exact controversy we have been talking about went down the exact same way in the 1900's, the 1910's, the 1920's and on and on. It's a link to the past*. Not everything fun is valuable, and not everything valuable is fun.


*(holy ####, I just got the pun in the SNES Zelda game title)
   42. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:22 PM (#3944885)
I happen to think it's much less of a cause for complaint than, say, Mariano Rivera not pitching the bottom of the 9th last night in Tampa in a game with play-off implications

Then you're a moron. Putting Rivera in position to pitch four times in five days would actively compromise Girardi's team's interests. Hell, Sabathia was fully rested. Why not call on him to make the start?
   43. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:27 PM (#3944891)
I think Reyes took the cheap way, but it's a very, very minor infraction.
   44. JJ1986 Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3944918)
I have no trouble believing that Kruk doesn't understand a lot of things - and I say that with affection.


He's the guy who retired mid-game to preserve a career .300 average, though.
   45. Lassus Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:48 PM (#3944922)
He's the guy who retired mid-game to preserve a career .300 average, though.

In a just world, someone would bring this up to him on-camera.
   46. zack Posted: September 29, 2011 at 02:58 PM (#3944947)
I was firmly in the "this was weak" camp until I read this article. Now I'm in the "that's it, everybody dies!" camp.
   47. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:07 PM (#3944971)
He's the guy who retired mid-game to preserve a career .300 average, though.

I was going to snark and say "But that gave his team the best chance to win!" but he was having a good year when he retired. (It's always fun to wander through BB-Ref. That 95 ChiSox team had Rob Dibble, Atlee Hammaker and a young Mike Cameron.
   48. SoSH U at work Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:16 PM (#3944983)
I was going to snark and say "But that gave his team the best chance to win!" but he was having a good year when he retired.


We ridiculue him for being fat, stupid and nut-deficient, but John Kruk was almost always in the middle of a year. The man was just a damn good hitter.
   49. Karl from NY Posted: September 29, 2011 at 03:28 PM (#3945009)
Remember that Reyes did it with the full blessing of his team and manager. Collins said the day before that they'd do whatever it took to get Reyes the title. Reyes wasn't being selfish at the expense of his team. In fact, the team almost certainly stands to gain more by being able to market the reigning batting champion (if they re-sign him) than they would have by winning the meaningless game (which they won handily anyway.)
   50. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:28 PM (#3945109)
Putting Rivera in position to pitch four times in five days would actively compromise Girardi's team's interests.


Fair enough -- I hadn't followed Rivera's usage the past few days closely enough to realize he's pitched three times in four days prior to last night. Of course, Girardi's first priority should be the competitive advantage of his team for the post-season.

The broader point I was getting at, which doesn't apply in the specific Rivera instance, is that you have two pretty common late-season situations that can arise, which each have been going on as long as there have been (a) pennant races, and (b) individual accolades and statistics to look at. Both involve whether great players play in, or stay in, games.

Situation A: Jose Reyes had sat yesterday (or come out of the game early) because the Mets had clinched the NL East, but the game was really important to the Reds in the NL Central and/or the Wild Card race. Thus, the game is meaningless to the Mets, but deeply meaningful to the teams competing with the Reds, who really want the Mets to try their best. Some in the media, and probably some people associated with the other teams (players, GM, coaches) will criticize Terry Collins for his decision ("integrity of the game"), and Collins will defend himself by saying he is looking out for his team's best interests.

Situation B: Jose Reyes sat yesterday (or came out of the game early) because he is trying to maximize his chances of winning the batting title. The game is meaningless to both teams, and to all other teams in the league, insofar as the post-season race is concerned. Reyes (and the Mets) are criticized for this decision because it shows he (and they) are too concerned about individual accomplishments over the team, abd didn't think of the fans at the park who paid to and wanted to see him play yesterday. Reyes is defended by saying that the individual accomplishment of the batting title is a meaningful one to him, which he earned and there is nothing at all wrong with trying to give him the best possible chance to achieve it, as long as it didn't hurt the team. Trying to help players accomplish such goals has been going on as long as they've been keeping records.

My view is that, on balance, the criticism of Collins in hypothetical Situation A would be more justified than the criticism of Reyes in real-life Situation B. A decision like that which affects the pennant race is more questionable than one which, while perhaps selfish and perhaps the wrong one, doesn't have that impact. But the fact is that in both those situations, players and managers have been going both ways -- sometimes playing, sometimes sitting -- for years. Precedent is split. So I can understand the manager getting ready for the post-season resting his players, and telling the managers of the other teams, "Sorry, but my team and winning the play-offs comes first." And I can understand why Manuel made the other choice, and played his guys against the Braves last night. Personally, I wouldn't criticize anybody who made either choice, in Situation A or Situation B. But if either one deserves it, it's the one that affects the pennant race.
   51. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:38 PM (#3945119)
I have issue with ever increasing focus on personal goals from managers leaving starter in to slog through an ugly fifth to get a win to the situation yesterday.

It has gone way beyond the sit to protect a .300 average thing that has been around for decades

Yuck
   52. TDF, situational idiot Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:40 PM (#3945120)
My $.02, if anyone cares...

I think the reaction would have been completely different if Reyes had at least finished the half-inning. By leaving for a pinch-runner, he rubs it in everyone's face what he's doing, just in case you couldn't guess. Finish the half-inning and pulls himself out, the fans probably give him a curtain call instead of booing.

I was firmly in the "this was weak" camp until I read this article.
In all of his years in Detroit, I never read one Rob Parker article where he said something positive about someone.
   53. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:44 PM (#3945128)
That is general sharing. Done commenting on the specific Reyes nonsense

Sam has gone into a touchy/feely zone beyond my reckoning. Makes me want to puke actually
   54. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:45 PM (#3945131)
TDF raises a nuance that does elevate the irritation factor
   55. Sam M. Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#3945141)
Sam has gone into a touchy/feely zone beyond my reckoning. Makes me want to puke actually


Yeah, Harveys has sentiment only for creatures that actually deserve it -- beagles. Ballplayers are somewhere far lower on the evolutionary scale.
   56. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 29, 2011 at 05:00 PM (#3945158)
Got that right
   57. Karl from NY Posted: September 29, 2011 at 05:02 PM (#3945163)
I'll agree with TDF. Reyes at least should stayed there on first base and maybe gone for a steal. Then take him out from his shortstop position to get the cheers.

This will all be forgotten by the end of next April anyway, if not by the end of this week.
   58. asinwreck Posted: September 29, 2011 at 05:14 PM (#3945186)
"Fun" is not a word I associate with the 1995 Chicago White Sox. Or, for that matter, the 2011 Chicago White Sox.

Reyes? Not particularly bothered by him going out that way. Now the 2011 Mets have something associated with the word "champion" and he can go into free agency with a batting title. And be paid accordingly, as long as he doesn't pull a hamstring on the flight home.
   59. AJM Posted: September 29, 2011 at 07:06 PM (#3945363)
Just one thing I think needs to be pointed out. Reyes hasn't been fully healthy. Since coming back from his first DL stint in mid-July he had 1 triple and 10 SB attempts in 46 games played.
   60. Banta Posted: September 29, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#3945441)
And that triple was before the second DL stint, if I recall correctly.
   61. Something Other Posted: September 30, 2011 at 08:09 AM (#3945831)
# 34 -- I am not asking for blind loyalty. I'm asking for balance. You can criticize Reyes for what he did yesterday, if you like. I happen to think it's much less of a cause for complaint than, say, Mariano Rivera not pitching the bottom of the 9th last night in Tampa in a game with play-off implications, but we can debate those issues and differ on them, which is what a baseball board is all about.

I would be asking blind loyalty if I said you should take Reyes's side and not criticize him. That's not it. I'm saying that whatever wrong you think he did, I cannot understand how it could outweigh the years he's played as a Met, with all that has happened to and with him.
It doesn't outweigh his years as Met, and I haven't said that it does, or anything like whatever it is you're imputing to me. This perfectly silly game we love should be played with some honor. I'm disgusted by the Wilpon Mets. I've never appreciated shortcuts and sleaze. This cheap ploy by Reyes fits in all too well with so much of what we've seen from this team for the last several, awful years. It was, and I think this is the best word for it: gutless.

I refuse to applaud it, or root for gutlessness to win out.

He didn't bribe official scorers to try and fix the batting race. He didn't put out a contract on Ryan Braun. Reyes came out of the last game of the season after one AB. Dislike that all you want. But to then root against him in the batting race? I'm sorry, that's 20-20 disloyalty.
Except that it isn't. I didn't root for Reyes to get hurt, I didn't even say I didn't want him back in a Met uniform. I said only that I wanted comeuppance for a sleazy move. Reyes richly deserved to sit there on the bench, a gasping fish, while the scoreboard tracked Braun's progress: 1 for 1, 2 for 2, 2 for 3, 3 for 4, 4 for 5...
   62. Gonna break my Rusty Kuntz and run . . . Arbitol Posted: October 04, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3950047)
Lost in all of this is that Reyes actually sucks at bunting for hits. It's very odd that this is what he would choose to do in pursuance of a batting title.

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