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Tuesday, January 15, 2013

Juan Pierre happy to be back with Marlins, regardless of his role

“It’s a very different ‘JP’ than I was eight years ago”... He’s right! 2005 - OPS+84 ~ 2012 - OPS+95. Go JP Go!

In 2008, a year after signing a five-year, $44 million contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers, Pierre saw his playing time reduced for the first time in his career. The Dodgers wanted to give more time to up-and-coming stars Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier.

“I didn’t handle it well at all,’’ Pierre said. But he said his outlook changed in 2009 in part because of his religious faith. That continues to affect his attitude.

“I signed a minor-league deal last year. If that was six years ago I would have said I was done playing. I wouldn’t even have done that just because of my pride,’’ he said. ‘Now, all of that is set aside. I can go back and have fun.’’

...Pierre plans to live during spring training at his house in the Broward County city of Parkland, so that means he will to set his alarm for 5 a.m. at the latest.

“I think we are going to surprise a few people,’’ he said. “I know the media, we’ll surprise you all, too, a little bit. When we pull from the same cord, some special things can happen.’’

Repoz Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:00 PM | 30 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: marlins

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:25 PM (#4347869)
In 2008, a year after signing a five-year, $44 million contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers
A deal that was stupid at the time, and didn't get any better.
   2. Group Captain Mandrake Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:43 PM (#4347874)
I met JP at that Marlins Hurricane Sandy benefit thing. I thought he was terrific. Very friendly, great with the kids, high enthusiasm. I wouldn't want him starting on my team, but there are worse guys to have on one's bench.
   3. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:54 PM (#4347878)
I forgot about that event, IIRC you seemed to have brought about half the people that went
   4. Group Captain Mandrake Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4347881)
I forgot about that event, IIRC you seemed to have brought about half the people that went


Not quite. There were about 50. I brought 7.
   5. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:57 PM (#4347882)
I met JP at that Marlins Hurricane Sandy benefit thing. I thought he was terrific. Very friendly, great with the kids, high enthusiasm. I wouldn't want him starting on my team, but there are worse guys to have on one's bench.


I don't think I've ever seen anyone in baseball say a bad word about Juan, which is probably one reason he never hurts for employment. His work ethic is legendary.

   6. smileyy Posted: January 15, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4347884)
When we pull from the same cord


Is this a mash-up of "cut from the same cloth" and "pull the same rope"?
   7. McCoy Posted: January 15, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4347906)
I remember getting into an argument with somebody over Juan Pierre's playing time during Manny's suspension. He believed Juan Pierre was the reason the Dodgers kept on winning and I disagreed.
   8. phredbird Posted: January 15, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4347911)
I remember getting into an argument with somebody over Juan Pierre's playing time during Manny's suspension. He believed Juan Pierre was the reason the Dodgers kept on winning and I disagreed.


i wish i had a nickel for every time i had an argument about pierre's worth with people here in L.A. ...

i once did a comparison of pierre's and manny's stats for somebody, even using the basic stuff, and they couldn't believe the difference.

but didn't pierre actually do well during manny's suspension? it was some sort of fluke iirc. he reverted.
   9. depletion Posted: January 15, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4347912)
If he had done nothing else, his role in the 2003 World Series affords him a gold star in my book.
   10. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: January 15, 2013 at 10:35 PM (#4347917)
The Dugout from when the Dodgers signed Andruw Jones to replace Juan Pierre (I believe it illustrated the disparity between their work ethics) is the only fictional AIM chat between cartoonified MLB players that ever brought a tear to my eye. Poor (rich) Juan Pierre. Can't find a link unfortunately.
   11. McCoy Posted: January 15, 2013 at 10:38 PM (#4347918)
Juan got off to a hot start when Manny got suspended but then faded severely. Through his first 20 games Juan put up a .425/.495/.598 line with 20 runs and 17 RBI. Through his next 30 games he put up a .244/.299/.283 line with 12 runs and 4 RBI but by then the narrative had already been written.
   12. DanG Posted: January 15, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4347926)
Outfielders with lowest career OPS+, minimum 1800 career Games:

Rk            Player OPSWAR/pos    G From   To   PA
1        Juan Pierre   85    15.3 1881 2000 2012 7950
2         Doc Cramer   87     4.2 2238 1929 1948 9927
3      Shano Collins   90     7.2 1800 1910 1925 7042
4    Marquis Grissom   92    26.7 2165 1989 2005 8959
5       Dave Philley   92     4.8 1904 1941 1962 7004
6      Willie Wilson   94    43.5 2154 1976 1994 8317
7      Dave Martinez   95    16.5 1919 1986 2001 6480
8         Paul Blair   96    34.3 1947 1964 1980 6673
9        Mark Kotsay   97    20.6 1810 1997 2012 6939
10     Patsy Donovan   97    15.0 1824 1890 1907 8172 
   13. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 15, 2013 at 11:48 PM (#4347938)
The Dugout from when the Dodgers signed Andruw Jones to replace Juan Pierre (I believe it illustrated the disparity between their work ethics) is the only fictional AIM chat between cartoonified MLB players that ever brought a tear to my eye. Poor (rich) Juan Pierre. Can't find a link unfortunately.


The King of Pop - close enough?
   14. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: January 16, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4347949)
The King of Pop - close enough?

IM PLAYING SPIES! Thanks; actually managed to find the one I was thinking of: There There, Juan Pierre.
   15. Austin Posted: January 16, 2013 at 02:23 AM (#4347965)
#12 - Wow. That's amazing. Even as much as people complain about Pierre's bat, I genuinely never would have guessed that he was a historically bad hitter for his position.
   16. Ellis Valentine's Bright Future Posted: January 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4348143)
I wouldn't have guessed that Marquis Grissom was a hitorically bad hitter either. Must be my Expos-coloured glasses.
   17. Nasty Nate Posted: January 16, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4348146)
I genuinely never would have guessed that he was a historically bad hitter for his position.


He wasn't. The historically bad hitters don't get to play 1800 games.
   18. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: January 16, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4348154)
Jeff Francoeur is still 654 games short of 1800, but he would be tied with Willie Wilson. If Francoeur plays five more years with the Royals (avoiding his usual new team bounce) he could challenge Pierre.
   19. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4348240)
Confucious say:

When we pull from the same cord

We all get messy hands.
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4348403)
I wouldn't have guessed that Marquis Grissom was a hitorically bad hitter either.


Seconded. Maybe it's because I had a bunch of his rookie cards in high school, but I seem to remember Grissom as not living up to his initial hype but a good player nonetheless.
   21. phredbird Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4348410)
the link in 14 is awesome.
   22. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:51 PM (#4348450)
When we pull from the same cord,...


Is this a mash-up of "cut from the same cloth" and "pull the same rope"?


I'm sure that subliminally, he was thinking of a rip cord.
   23. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4348459)
Seconded. Maybe it's because I had a bunch of his rookie cards in high school, but I seem to remember Grissom as not living up to his initial hype but a good player nonetheless.


In fairness Grissom wasn't a bad player. Making a cutoff 1800 games almost guarantees you are going to eliminate bad players. It's an oversimplification but if you play that many big league games you aren't a complete disaster (though Francoeur is making a run).
   24. Ron J2 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4348480)
#17 True. Hal Lanier didn't quite get to 1200. An awfully bad hitter for a guy who spent years at second base. Bill Bergen didn't quite make 1000 games and he's the gold standard for a non-hitter.

So I guess the question is what the list for the various positions looks like if you draw the line at 950 (to get Bergen in) or 1150 (to get Lanier in). Don't currently have access too BB-Ref or I'd do it myself.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:07 PM (#4348490)
Bill Bergen didn't quite make 1000 games and he's the gold standard for a non-hitter.

Bill Bergen is to bad hitting what Babe Ruth is to good hitting. His stats are simply unbelievable.

Career 170/194/201 line, "good" for a 21 OPS+.
   26. Walt Davis Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:24 PM (#4348537)
He wasn't. The historically bad hitters don't get to play 1800 games.

True but ...

Pierre is now to the point where about 1/3 of his innings/PA are in LF. He was not historically bad for CF but he's got to be pushing it now. For players with at least 400 games in LF or RF (Pierre is over 500), he is tied for the 22nd lowest (or 28th lowest if you want to look at it that way) out of 661. However it is higher than Endy Chavez, Vince Coleman, Orlando Palmeiro, Henry Cotto to name some big names.

He's been primarily LF starting at 30. Among players to play at least 400 games in LF or RF from age 30 onwward, he has the 4th (6th) worst OPS+ out of 262. Gerald Williams, Palmeiro and Joe Orsulak were worse. He has 2 WAR in that time which, even adjusting for PA, is a lot better than some other guys.

So he is kinda historically awful for a guy allowed to play a corner OF spot in his 30s. As a young CF, he was cromulent.

That's also a big difference between him and Grissom -- Grissom played CF pretty much his entire career ... although not very well according to Rfield.

Grissom, by WAR, may have had the worst season of all-time in his last season. -2.3 WAR. No, that's not amazing in itself but it was just 147 PA. He was on a -10 WAR pace!
   27. OCF Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4348603)
That made me look at Andruw Jones's year with the Dodgers, which was more PA (230 or so). Jones was merely on a -5 WAR pace projected out to full time for the whole season.
   28. AJMcCringleberry Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4348659)
Pierre plans to live during spring training

Pretty high expectations.
   29. DanG Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4348679)
Grissom, by WAR, may have had the worst season of all-time in his last season. -2.3 WAR. No, that's not amazing in itself but it was just 147 PA.
Pat Rockett in 1978 edges out Grissom, -3.0 WAR in 157 PA, slash line 141/212/155.
   30. Walt Davis Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:36 AM (#4348791)
Pat Rockett

Yeah, I still think the only reason he ever got to play in MLB was his cool name.

In 459 career PA, -5.7 WAR

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